Discussion keeps the world'sturning.
This isRoundtable. You're listening to Roundtable withmyself,young.
I'm joined by Yushun and Brandon Yates in thestudio.
Comingup, from Crocs andBirkenstocks, it seems comfort and nostalgia are the new fashiontrends.
Join us as we explore the resurgence of these once popular products that are reclaiming theirplaces.
In our hearts andwardrobes, our podcast listeners can find us at Roundtable China on ApplePodcast.
If you have a question that you want us to answer on socialissues,business,technology, or whatever moves yourspirit, you can send those ourway.
There's a place to doit.
EZFM Roundtable at FoxMail.com Emails arefine, but voice memos are alwaysbetter, and we'd really appreciate it if you can participatein...
Tell us your name as well as region ofresidence, so we know a little bit more about you when we're answering thesequestions.
Now, onRoundtable, as we move on to our nexttopic.
Check this oneout. Vinylrecords, Polaroidcameras,Birkenstocks, andCrocs, a nostalgic return that's setting the trend infashion.
How have these iconic pieces reclaimed the limelight instyle?
Enter the unexpected crossover between Crocs andMcDonald's, where comfy clogs meet fast foodflair, creating an eye-catchingcollaboration.
Well, collaborations between brands have become a source of excitement in the global market for sometime.
What motivates brands year after year in generation after generation to pursue such creativepartnerships?
Well, youshould. You're on update dutytoday, Iguess.
So, tell us about the recent popular collaborationshappening.
Well,yeah, actually 2023 has been a year of a lot of brand collaboration inChina, especially for the food and beverageindustry.
Examples arelike, licking coffee with the ChineseMalti, which is a Chineseliquor, andHaiti...
Veryexpensive.Yes, and Haiti withFendi, where a lot of people are queuing upfor, I think it's quitefunny, for the beverages take awayback, because there's Fendi logo onit.
And McDonald's andCrocs, where the McDonald's mascot characters are integrated into theirdesign.
Forexample, the character's cute expressions and iconic mix color of red and yellow and black and whitestripes.
So,hamburger, and that appeals to people that want to stay singleforever.
Why? There's nothing cool about McDonald's orCrocs.
I think thatis...Oh,no!
Nothingwhatsoever. The kind of astereotypical...
Or theimpression, the adrenaline pressure in twoCrocs, Ithink.
Yeah. I thought they were cool when they cameout.
Imean, I think they became pretty popular in South Africa when I was like an earlyteen.
And, youknow, as a naiveteen, when you see a whole bunch of people wearingthings, you just assume that it'scool.
And then after awhile, when the trend diesdown, yourealize, what was Ithinking?
And the situationwas, you weren'tthinking, you were just trying to copy the coolcrowd.
Imean, from the comfort point ofview,yes, but from aesthetics or trying to lookcool, although as youcan...
Imean,well, I'll listen to thisconcy, but as you guys cansee, fashion is not something I take veryseriously.
But Crocs takes it to a whole notherlevel.
But we have to admit that a lot of these irrelevant at firstsight, but attractive collaborations turned out reallysuccessful.
Forexample, the coffee liquor collaboration was everywhere on social media backthen.
Andalso... It's a great marketingtool.
Yes. So I think that's thething.
I think that's why these companies doit.
They identify some sort of similarity between the two of them and they realize that they can garner more fans or more customers for their product if theycollaborate.
So especially when you're not in a competingmarket.
So those collaborations from a marketing and a business point of vieware...
It's a pretty smart thing todo.
And for thecustomers, it's also somethingunique.
And a lot of thetime, something that they weren'texpecting.
So it's appealing to thecustomers.
And for thebusinesses, it's also just a great way to get some marketing outthere.
Right.Anyway, in three days after the launch of the shoes of McDonald's andCrocs, Co-branded LimitedEdition, it has been sold out at the unit priceof $639, which is $88 in its T-Maw or online shoppingstore.
Yeah.Yeah. Are youteens?
But I have tosay, I never thought that I would be sayingthis.
Ever. I think this gets erased from my personal fashionhistory.
Inever, ever thought that I wouldsay,huh, actually seeing the latest design of thiscollab.
Crocs, some brownies points toyou.
You've done a goodjob.Like,surprisingly, thedesign.
I don't know if you've checked itout, a brand's anonline.
But it's not simply just printing the logo onit.
Yeah, I don't think I've seen thisdesign.
Yeah, I don't think I've seen this particulardesign.
But I have seen in my time in China inparticular.
I have seen a lot ofvery, I wouldn't saycool, but interesting in eye catching Crocs all over China where people put on their little characters that they like and some of them areplatform.
They've got wildcolors.
So there's a lot ofinteresting, unique Croc designs that I've seen acrossChina.
And I think Crocs do deserve credit because it's not a coolproduct.
It's not a visually appealingproduct, but they have somehow managed to capture a market where you would think that the biggest need for that demographic is to lookcool.
And they've somehow managed to appeal to thatdemographic, which isamazing.
And Crocs also appeal to people that want functionality andcomfort, whichis, youknow, so people that want that don't really care what the product lookslike.
But the fact that they've been able to capture the needs and the eyes of people that are fashion conscious isremarkable.
Well,actually, am I back to different onthat, butanyhow.
Because I think they uglyman.
You sound like somebody who's time traveling to2010.
Apparently it was voted the 50 worst inventions of all time by Time Magazine in May2010.
Well, they especially have managed to secure a revival sinceCOVID.
Andyes, duringCOVID, I remember reading allthese,uh, reading an article from the Wall StreetJournal, surprisingly saying that Crocs has taken over American hospitals and thedoctors.
We're comfortsneeded.
Yousee, so that's where the functionality element comesin.
And all thatstuff.So,well, this collaboration as a business strategy has beentested,tried, and proveneffective.
What motivates brands to dothis?
Yeah, ofcourse. These kind of a new market expansion and thereach, Ithink, a wider range of customers is the thing that these brands are thinkingabout.
Collaborations allow these brandsto, youknow, tapping to new and complimentary markets and reach potential customers who may not have been aware of themotherwise.
Thisis, Ithink, quite common infashion,right?
Where, youknow, high-end brands partner with more accessibleones.
Or what I can think of is famous designers will collaborate withUniclo.
And I feel that many times this could be a wing wing situationbecause, youknow, with one party gaining exposure and the other achieving a higher brandpositioning.
That makes a lot ofsense,because.
And just reaching a wideraudience.
Yeah, I believe you were referring to JillSander, which is a brand that is known for very minimalistic design style and high quality andfabric.
And then withUniclo, which is knownfor,well, certainlynot- Avulnerability.
Yes,yes, that's definitelyit.
So I think Uniclo is a brand that the general public is more familiar with and probably shopthere.
So Ithink,yeah, what you saidthere, you shun about the different positioning of brands and wanting to joinforces, it makes a lot ofsense.
So a lot ofthe,well, certainly fashioncollapse.
When you also think of low cost brands and high endbrands, it also makes sense because you probably find the low cost brands want to be associated with the quality that is associated with high endbrands.
And the high endbrands, even though they are incredibly expensive and only a certain part of the demographic and affordit.
If they're associated with these lower costcompanies, then people will start to assume that they can also afford these high endbrands.
So it's a marketing strategy and youknow, the reason these companies do this is because why do companies doanything?
They want to make more money and they want to expand their reach and it's mutuallybeneficial.
What about thisone? My gut feeling tells me that Brandon is going to loveit.
Okay. Snickers andNFL.
Yeah, Imean, that makes sensebecause- That makessense?
Yeah, becausepeople- A lot of snickers advertisements are based on a lot of the sportsevents.
Yeah, but also what'sunique, Ithink, about sports marketing in America is that it seems like all of these unhealthyproducts, likeSnickers,McDonald's,Coca-Cola, they always market at these sporting events becauseyes, you are watching these world class athletes that probably only eat like kale and grow eggs and that kind ofthing.
But in terms of the peoplethat- But the people that watch these sports are not fine-tunedathletes, they're probably sitting on a couch eating a bag of chips and chocolates and that kind ofthing.
So these companies are trying to appeal to the viewers of thesesports.
And I think the viewersof- This is going to hit me intotrouble, but the viewers of the NFL probably like enjoySnickers.
Andalso, I think these brands are trying to show their customers or showthem- They understandthem.
They getthem. Collaborations can demonstrate to existing customers that a brand understand their needs anddesires, thus increasing brand loyalty andvalue.
I can think ofLEGO, particularly good at this with StarWars,Batman,Simpsons, and HarryPotter.
If I would love to buya- People would never assumethis, but those likeBatman, LEGO movies and StarWars, LEGO movies arehuge.
Yeah, and themerchandise, saying side ofthings, is what's really bringing consistent revenue even afteryears, if notdecades, since the moviesdebuted.
That's probably been one of the best cross-marketing campaignsever.
Yeah, so these collaborations are all reinforcing their respective brands even further within their targetmarket.
I'msorry, just to jumpin.
I like what you mentioned there aswell, when these collaborations betweenbrands, when they identify something that those customers of that productlike, even if it's away from their brand and it's a differentproduct, that definitely increases brandloyalty.
So it also opens them up to a whole new group of potentialfans, but it also reinforces the fans or the buyers of their product that they alreadyhave.
But it's also risky because if they identify the wrongthing, they could also lose a whole bunch of loyalcustomers, which we've seen in America with Budweiser and that kind of thing where I think Budweiser did thiswhole- So it'd be ourcompany?
Yeah, I don't rememberwhat-Sorry, this isalso- I don't know the exactspecifics, but there was some Budweiser campaign where they were focusing on a very particulardemographic, and the loyal fans of Budweiser hatedthat, and they lost a lot ofmoney.
Right, it's really interesting because there's definitely a value proposition behindit, and then if you'vegot, let's say this collaboration with this other company orwhatnot, or signing someone who's an influencer or the poster boy or girl to thiscampaign, and then it actually did not align with your customerbase.
Kanye West actually spoke aboutthis, he was talking about Lady Gaga andPolaroid, and I won't swear onair, but hesaid, what the if does Lady Gaga know aboutcameras?
Well,maybe- He was commenting on how some collaborations just make no sensewhatsoever, just about making money for that influencer or trying to increase the exposure for a certaincompany.
So it isrisky, I think that's something that maybe brands are being more aware of now is thatyes, collaborations are a goodidea, but you have to be very certain that it makes sense and will appeal to your current loyal fan base and potentially also reach out to a new fanbase.
It'srisky. Funny that you mentionedKanye, because after the fallout between him andAdidas, I don't think heis- we should maybejust- I don't even think he qualifies as a reference pointanymore, butanyway, possibly as part of the evidence dossier that you can find when things don't gowell.
There's a lot of examples where it doesn't workout.
Yeah.Yeah. Andokay,so, youknow, we heard of all the collaborations that have wentwell, but at the same time this age old business move of brand collaboration can feel like beating a deadhorse.
Many have failed to make consumers bat in eyelid in Chinarecently.
So we've talked about whatworks, but there are the things that doesn't work and I can give you one example that is as a renowned cultural asset inChina, the Forbidden City or Palace Museum has been a very sought after partner forcollaborations, but throughout2019.
Okay, this is when this discussion has alreadystarted.
Okay. The Forbidden City had as many as 14 collaborations averaging 1 to 2 collaborations per month and such frequent collaborations undoubtedly impacted their marketingeffectiveness.
The genius part that they've pulled off and actually this goes back almost a decade when ShanxiShang, the previous man at the helm of the Forbidden City or the PalaceMuseum, he has done a terrific job in rebranding this reveredlocation.
He's made it into something that is deep with culturalheritage, but super young and fun and be able to take a joke kind of newimage.
And then it's also managedto, let's say sell all kinds of delicious sweets from the so-called imperial kitchen is managed to come up with waves of cultural products from cosmetic powder foundation to lipsticks to like stationary and all with very special themes and adequate designs which have really captured people's imagination and their walletstoo.
And then the smart move because I think there is the perception maybe from people outside of China that the Forbidden City is this inaccessible scary like revered sacredplace, which itis.
But the fact that it's notscary, but I mean it is sacred and revered and it's a specialplace.
And the fact that people that are behind the scenes are making it more accessible to the general public and not scary and just making it like this is something special for China and the world to see and we want everybody to see it and you're welcome here and having marketing campaigns to encourage that is a goodmove.
And I think it's rather picky in choosingbrands, but I've listed there just way too many collaborations and then it rarely leaves a mark in your impressionanymore.
Like we remember the firstfew, but then after that it was justlike,okay, what's up next month and then people are sort of desensitized from it and also might wonder about the brands like over licensing and overexposure and that might become a badthing.
So when does it notwork?
That's thething. I think with a location likethat, I think they need to be incredibly careful because like we've seen in thepast, they have been collaborations that really did not work out and with something as important as the ForbiddenCity, I think it's risky to collaborate with anything or anyone when you're looking at something that's that important to globalhistory.
So I think that's something that locations like that and other historical locations around the world need to be aware of is that they need to be incredibly picky with who they collaborate with and it needs to make sense and it shouldn't be so frequent to the point where like you said it's either not memorable or it becomesinsignificant.
But I think co-burning with Forbidden City may give people a sense of the products can be verydelicate, sophisticated and exquisite and in that way people would liketo, especially I think cosmeticproducts, they give people that kind ofsense.
Especially with the sun food trend that's goingon.
I think that is kind of a first wave of Chinese traditional fashion orchic, that kind ofthing.
But the thing that we are going to talk about is that's too much of these co-burning orcollaboration.
I think whether one plus one is bigger than two often depends on the positioning of each of these twobrands.
And the advantage is that if one brand has a bad reputation or there have been some thing wentwrong.
Yeah, previous negative collaborationexperiences, it can lead to a lack of trust and maybe a failure of collaborationor.
And now the point is that nowadays some brands co-burning strategies have become its primarystrategy.
And I think co-burning is kind of giving people a sense of limitededition, that's why people are going for it and craving forit.
But if you are giving people too much ofthis, then it will not be precious as it is be caught as a limitededition.
And that limited edition tagfades.
You're so rightthere, where iconicbrands, when they do collaborations on an infrequentbasis, then that drive to attain something that is potentially limited increasesways.
If it happens toofrequently, then it loses its value and it's limited editionstatus.
But going back to what yousaid, when some brands go through a controversy or something likethat, that's also a risk that some of these historical venues need to be awareof.
Because sometimes that can also happen during acollaboration.
Let's say forexample, the Fubidensity collaborates it with the brand and then in the middle of thatcollaboration, something terrible happens to that brand or they do something terrible or there's negative news associated with thatbrand.
Imean, in thatsituation, it didwork.
Aboard.Yeah,no, but I mean it places something as revered as the Fubidensity in a very awkwardposition.
It wouldbe. But also I think this part comes to something that's kind oftricky, but if you can handle it then what a marketing genius youare, that is actually still the Fubidensity has managed to develop into quite a usefulimage.
Thatis, even if maybe something hopefully not drastically wronghappened, but it's managed to sort of tweak its image intoyes, there's that revered aspect of things and also it can take the Mickey out ofitself.
Like not take itself tooseriously.
Exactly. And I think that is the sort of million dollar marketing strategythat.
To appeal to the youngerdemographic.
Exactly. And also like for some of these time honoredbrands, sure maybe people view you in a rather seriousmanner, but if you're banking so much on that and the slightest thing goeswrong, the whole empire crumbles itfeels, but if you can have that a laxicity that sort of that flexibility in yourimage, then I mean that is something prettyimpressive.
It's a balancingact. I think you know they do want to be revered and take themselvesseriously, but they also need to be accessible to the widest demographic aspossible.
So I think that seems to be something that the Fubidensity is getting right because I mean that's one of the first things that I wanted to see when I arrived inBeijing.
So it seems like that's what the team behind the Fubidensity is getting right is thatyes, it is still a revered incredibly special venue in China that is taken seriously by alldemographics, but it also has that image of beingaccessible.
So it's not something that people are kind of like fearfulof.
But I would say I would still be willing to buy a product that is a collaboration with a brand that I like or with a franchise that Ilike, forexample, maybe Harry Potter or something because I feel that this ismore, youknow, special and has elements that I like and compared to other similarproducts, youknow, it has addedvalue.
Then I would like to go forit.
And I think that is why the collaboration thing is most of the time at least aresuccessful.
I think it makes a lot of sense if it's one sort of ahuge,important, very appealing intellectual property that's collaborating with anothercompany.
That is engaged in sort of like everyday use of something with a massive customerbase.
And also what you guys mentioned just now just make me think of that this is kind of like a personification of the situation that is if two brands who are bothpowerful, likeable or in their respectivefields.
They join together is like a new powercouple, but then if let's say one party is an as powerful successful or whatnot and then sometimes it'slike, youknow, the other one is kind of like a But generally when two powerful individuals or companies joinforces, then it makes both of them morepowerful.
I suppose we've seen that with celebrity couples aswell.
It's like a similar thing where even if one partner is less famous than theother, their combined star power makes them as a collective morepowerful.
That's when things gowell, but not so many powerful companies want tocollaborate.
So it's reallyinteresting.
And also from Polaroid's vinyl records to fashion items such asBerkensdok's,well, it's another shoe brand andCrocs.
And here's anotherthing, Fanny Packsbrand.
Definitely not pretty or sexy atall, functionality ofeverything.
Those belt bags are back in style thisseason.
Yeah.Yeah, so Iwonder, youknow, what's behind the researches of theseproducts?
What makes the old newagain?
Functionality, I wouldsay, with regards to the FannyPacks, Ithink, youknow, for a lot ofmen, forexample, youknow, you're not going to see a lot of us carrying around handbags and that sort ofthing.
But having a Fannypack?
No, but like it's become incrediblypopular.
I see a lot of very fashionconscious, youknow, like manly men walking around these music festivals with a Fanny pack wrapped around their shoulder or around theirwaist.
And the actual designs have become quiteappealing, but away fromthat, the functionality element is also a part ofit.
So I don't know if there's a specific Fanny packcompany, but it seems like that research and of that popularity is a combination of style andfunctionality.
I must saythat,sorry, because when it comes tofashion, I have to saysomething.
Well, basically every brand has come up with their own Fanny pack since lastseason.
So this isdefinitely, but youknow, I wonder how long the staying power willendure.
Butanyhow, there are new designs that are brought to this to make it fashionable andnew.
It's not your old Fanny pack from the 1960s that you can pull out from your wardrobe to secure that fashionableposition.
I don't think functionality is a thing that they're thinking about whenthese, no matter it's in Polaroid orthese, youknow, old time items are coming back to fashionworld.
I was with that specificitem.
I was innostalgic. I was in nostalgic and that kind of ritual feeling is that it is the peoplewant.
Youknow, I can think of CCDcameras.
I don't know if you knowthat.
That's kind of an oldcamera.
The full name is charge coupleddevice.
And the characteristic of these type of cameras are blurred images and lowpixels.
These are quite popular among social media and youngpeople.
The characters that they used tobe.
And celebritiestoo.Yes, technical shortcomings of that time now have become or have been described as fashion or atmosphere or film like on socialmedia, which is verypopular.
And along withthat, I can thinkof, youknow, a lot ofcelebrities, they're taking pictures of themwith, youknow, an MP3 with them or with a Walkman withthem.
OrPolaroid.Yes. And I think theadded, retro sense to their outfits or OOTD is the thing that they're actually goingfor.
I think younger generations are cravingauthenticity.
And I think a lot of these older products that were popular with their parentsor, youknow, when they wereyoung, it gives them a bit of a throwbackfeeling.
And I think that bringsup, like yousaid,nostalgia, but also just a sense of authenticity because having something tangibleor, youknow, something that you can kind of hold andkeep.
I think that's something that younger people are lacking because all they do is look at screens allday.
So I think that's also why a lot of these products from the past are finding popularity with younger generationsagain.
And it's an interestingphenomenon.
And I think it's something that a lot of brands that were not popular after a certain decade or whatever it may be are now comingback.
And they're identifying this need in a certaindemographic.
And thenare, youknow, finding popularityagain, like some of the brands and products that we'vementioned.
Yes. Andalso, since the2010s, the fashion movement called Norm Kor has been all therage.
So, normalKor, Isuppose, you can get from thatportmanteau.
It's nothing toospectacular.
But then it kind of sort of died out a little bit and then COVIDcame.
And guesswhat? Youknow, this kind of really relaxed style has been back invogue.
And I think it explains some of the items that we just mentioned because functionality is definitely onething.
And also people want to dresscomfortably, youknow, like prioritizing these factors on top of wanting to lookgood.
Andthen, so you still need some of these new twists and designs to make something of an old wine evenbetter.
And in the ever evolving world of fashion trends mayfade, but they never trulydisappear.
Just as the past inspires thepresent.
Today's trends will undoubtedly shape the future of fashion and improving that style truly astimeless.
While it's true that the businesses may play a significant role in shaping and promoting thesetrends, the cyclical nature of fashion is also influenced by broader cultural and societalfactors.
And that could include technicaladvancements, economicconditions, and culturalshifts.
And I believe it reflects in the way we style ourselves and the way we presentourselves.
And that brings us to the end of today'sroundtable.
Thankyou. You should add brand-in-yates for joining thediscussion.
I'm HaYoung. You can always find us on Apple Podcasts at RoundtableChina.
