Hey Proof listeners, Morgan Bowling here, your go-to grilling expert.
I'll be the first to admit, grilling can feel intimidating.
It seems expensive.
The gear can be so involved and sometimes it's hard to know where to even begin.
So Monument Grills set out to make grilling possible for everyone.
They started in an Atlanta backyard with one simple question.
Why does grilling have to be so complicated?
This led to the Everybody Everywhere Grill, a grill designed to welcome everyone to the flame.
The grill is for first-timers and serious backyard chefs alike.
It's built for anyone looking to make monumental memories.
The Everybody Everywhere Grill is made from high-quality materials and has thoughtful features like Clearview lids to help you keep an eye on your food without letting heat escape.
It also comes with app-connected temperature monitoring that helps you focus on what's really important.
Delicious food and great company.
It's everything you need and nothing that gets in your way.
Join over 100,000 backyard chefs and discover the Everybody Everywhere Grill at monumentgrills.com.
Hey, Proof listeners, it's Morgan Bowling.
At America's Test Kitchen, we know how important it is to cook with a good, sturdy pan.
And Smithy Ironware, well, they get the job done.
Smithy crafts cast iron and carbon steel pans proudly in the USA.
They come pre-seasoned with no chemical coatings, so they're ready to go right out of the box.
And they only improve with age as the surface becomes smoother and more non-stick over time.
When our in-house reviews team tested the carbon steel pan, an egg even slid across the surface the very first time they used it.
And these pans aren't just good-looking with that iconic golden hue and sleek finish.
They're balanced, comfortable to handle, retain heat beautifully and deliver even browning every time.
Smithy doesn't just make skillets.
They have Dutch ovens, griddles, and more, all guaranteed for life.
And speaking of for life.
All of their cookware is engravable, making them the perfect family heirloom and one they'll actually use every day.
From breakfast to Sunday dinner, Smithy's skillets elevate the experience of cooking at home.
Visit smithy.com to learn more and get your hands on one of these pants today.
Hello, listeners.
This is Anne Bogle, author, blogger, and creator of the podcast, What Should I Read Next?
Since 2016, I've been helping readers bring more joy and delight into their reading lives.
Every week I tech, all things, books and reading with a guest and guide them in discovering their next read.
They share three books they love, one book they don't, and what they've been reading lately.
And I recommend three titles they may enjoy reading next.
Guests have said our conversations are like therapy, troubleshooting issues that have plagued their reading lives for years and possibly the rest of their lives as well.
And, of course, recommending books that meet the moment, whether they are looking for deep introspection to spur or encourage a life change, or a frothy page turner to help them escape the stresses of work school, everything.
You'll learn something about yourself as a reader and you'll definitely walk away confident to choose your next read, with a whole list of new books and authors to try.
Subscribe now, wherever you're listening to this podcast, and visit our website whatshouldireadnextpodcastcom to find out more.
As a New Yorker, I've known about Levan cookies for at least 25 years.
I was an early adopter, like I went to the first outpost in the 1990s, long before they became all the rage on social media.
These apparently are the best cookies in all of New York.
They're from Levain Bakery.
Everyone has them, so I got two of them.
That's so good.
It's literally just chocolate on the inside.
It almost tastes raw in the middle.
I give that maybe a 10.
How should I describe this cookie to the uninitiated?
If I had to pick one word, it would be ginormous.
These scone-sized cookies weigh as much as a grapefruit and they're packed with lots of walnuts and chocolate chips.
Their centers are sort of half-melted in a signature ooey gooey, are-you-sure-this-isn't-raw kind of way.
It finally seemed time for America's Test Kitchen to create a recipe for the home baker.
The assignment went to Andrea Geary.
We've worked together for 16 years, and there are two things you should know about Andrea.
She's a remarkable baker, and she's immune to social media hype.
Today, on Proof from America's Test Kitchen, we follow Andrea as she develops a recipe inspired by the viral hit.
Will Andrea be able to crack the code behind this ginormous cookie?
I'm Jack Bishop.
Let's get baking.
The holidays are when bakers really get to show off.
There are pies loaves cakes, cookies and maybe even those impressive pastries you've been gearing up to make all year.
This is where Plucroix Premium European Style Butter comes in.
Plucroix has 82% butterfat.
That means less water and more butterfat, so your doughs stay tender and your layers bake up flaky and light.
It's also slow-churned, which gives it that rich, creamy texture that works easily into doughs and supports better lift and structure in your bakes.
Plougras was developed by chefs for chefs, which means that you and I get to reap the benefits in our home kitchens.
And so do our loved ones, because the best gift that you can give this holiday season might just be something baked with Plougras premium European-style butter.
I'm pretty picky about the food I eat, the books I read, and the health professionals I trust.
And if you've ever tried to find a therapist, you know how hard that can be.
Yes, there are lots of options out there, but not all of them are right for your personality and your needs.
And you have to find a therapist who actually takes your insurance.
That's definitely where most online therapy platforms fall short.
Rula does things differently.
They partner with over 100 insurance plans and they make sure the average copay is just 15 per session.
That's real therapy from licensed professionals at a price that actually makes sense.
Thousands of people are already using Rula to get affordable, high-quality therapy that's actually covered by insurance.
Visit rula.com slash proof to get started.
After you sign up, you'll be asked how you heard about them.
Please support our show and let them know we sent you.
That's R-U-L-A dot com slash proof.
You deserve mental health care that works with you, not against your budget.
Hey, Lili Miller here.
I am the host of Terrestrials, a show all about animals and nature from Radiolab.
If you've ever wanted to hear a story about an octopus breaking out of an aquarium, or a squirrel that can regrow its brain, or the wild stories unfolding inside a tree stump well, we've got an episode for you.
And did I mention we sometimes break out into song?
Join us, Terrestrials, over on the Radiolab for Kids feed.
Listen wherever you get podcasts.
Proof's associate producer and 8toK fangirl, Angelica Quintanilla McCall, has the story.
Not many people can say this, but I've been living a dream for the last two years.
I've worked here at America's Test Kitchen since 2023.
As a budding home chef who learned how to cook using the recipes developed by the Test Kitchen, it's been fun seeing how the sausage is made.
And I've become friendly with some of the names behind the recipe bylines.
Hi, Andrea.
Hello.
How are you?
I'm good.
How are you?
I'm doing well.
How was your weekend?
Andrea's been working at America's Test Kitchen since 2009 and she's a deputy food editor for Cook's Illustrated Magazine.
Andrea also won a 2025 James Beard Journalism Award, and she's kind of a big deal around here.
Let's begin by adjusting an oven rack to the middle position and heating the oven to 350 degrees.
Line a cookie sheet with parchment paper.
She's developed hundreds of recipes for America's Test Kitchen and probably knows more about baking than anyone else here.
Andrea is what you would consider a classically trained baker.
And as Jack mentioned, she's not one to follow trendy foods and sweets.
So when the editorial team gave her the challenge to recreate Levin Bakery's signature chocolate chip walnut cookie,
Andrea's first question was, what's a Levin cookie?
Levin Bakery began in New York City in 1995, selling mostly bread.
It was founded by two friends, Pam Weeks and Connie McDonald.
Here's Pam from an interview with WGN News before opening their third Chicago location in 2025.
The key to our success is also the people you know and the relationships we formed with each other and with our community.
You know all these people who shared their stories.
They've become such good friends over the years and they've made friends at the bakery.
Levent's signature cookies are described as a happy accident by the founders.
Pam and Connie, training together for a triathlon, created the chocolate chip walnut cookie to keep them full and their energy levels high.
And after selling a sample batch in the bread shop, they were a hit with the locals.
And then in 2008, Pam and Connie were challenged to a cookie bake-off by Bobby Flay on his show Throwdown with Bobby Flay.
On this episode of Throwdowns.
I'm on home turf with my sights set on a big challenger.
The Kong-sized chocolate chip cookie from Manhattan's Levin Bakery.
Pam and Connie won, bringing the cookie to a greater audience.
But it wasn't until those giant cookies hit the social media feeds of millions that Levin became one of the most TikTokable bakeries on the platform.
Chocolate chip walnut.
Let's do a cross-section.
Oh, my God.
This is insane.
And just in the way that New Yorkers are really particular about their pizza and bagels, many are very passionate about their Levin cookies.
The way these cookies just simply, like, melt in your mouth.
Best cookie I've ever had in my life.
They're the perfect texture.
They're not too hard and they're not too soft.
Levin has now expanded outside of New York City and every shop's grand opening has hour-long lines and customers raving about this cookie.
I myself have loved a Leven cookie or two since the first location opened in Boston in 2022.
So when I learned that Andrea, of all people, was developing ATK's version of the viral Leven cookie, I knew I had to document her approach to this sensation.
We just got out of the Lyft.
And now we're headed to Levent, which is across the street here on Seaport Boulevard.
On a blistering hot July afternoon, I accompanied Andrea on her maiden voyage to Levent.
What do you think, Andrea?
I think we should get four chocolate chip walnut cookies.
And I think we've got to get milk, right?
As we waited, surrounded by the sweet smell of bacon cookies, Andrea had an observation right away.
The cookies themselves look like, they actually look like scones, don't they?
They do, don't they?
The way they're so tall and generous.
After buying the cookies, we found some seats outside of the bakery under some shade.
Here you go.
I'm going in.
Here you go.
I'm going in.
Andrea was floored by just how big they were.
And when she took a bite... It is quite crunchy.
So the bite that I took was not right in the middle.
I got some walnuts, definitely got some chocolate chip.
The chocolate chips are still quite melty, that even though the cookie is not warm, it has that like greenness of a freshly baked cookie.
I'm wondering how they achieve that to get that really sort of crusty exterior.
And then the interior is really soft and moist.
And as I say, almost a little And I know a lot of people love their cookies that way.
And Andrea was surprised by the choice of nuts.
I got to say like I think walnuts are a really brave choice for them, because a lot of people don't love walnuts.
Like pecans, for instance, because they're sweeter, are more popular.
It's the skins that give the walnuts that tannic quality, that kind of astringent quality that a lot of people don't like.
Then Andrea honed in on something more unique to this cookie.
Which I really appreciate. because the interior of the cookie is so soft.
Sure, you have the crunchy exterior, but it's nice to have a little bit of crunchiness inside, too.
That crunchiness almost makes the interior seem softer by contrast.
Most visitors to Levin focus on the iconic size and shape of these cookies.
But Andrea had zeroed in on the crispy brown shell in the gooey, molten middle.
Textural contrast would become a key part of the work ahead.
After the trip, Andrea admitted to me that the thick cookies like the Levin Signature cookies were not usually the kind of cookie she likes.
It is true that my preference is more to the thin and crispy end of the spectrum.
Andrea's developed a chocolate wafer cookie and a killer Florentine lace cookie, and both are decidedly on the thin side.
They're the kind of cookies that perfectly complement a cup of tea or coffee.
There might be an arc here where I become a convert, because I am very interested in the textural contrast.
I'm intrigued by that because I think that differing textures always make food better, but also because, as a test cook, I'm really interested in how they get that.
Andrea may seem to be taking a dispassionate approach to this super trendy cookie, but things would change once the baking scale came out and the reality of the challenge became very clear.
Cookies can be pretty unpredictable.
You know just that people think that cookies are easy and it's one of the first things that kids learn how to make is cookies, but they're actually quite sensitive.
We're about a week out from our field trip when Andrea starts her five-recipe test, and we have quite a challenge ahead.
The five-recipe test at America's Test Kitchen is when a test cook prepares five existing recipes for the dish that they were assigned.
The five recipes come from cookbooks, the internet, and even from grandmas.
Teammates provide feedback on each recipe and help the test cook refine the goals for their development process.
Andrea baked off four Levin knockoff recipes that she found online.
The fifth example was a fresh batch of chocolate chip walnut cookies from the Seaport Levin shop, which were a reference point today and for future tastings.
Andrea has left one cookie from each batch in its entirety, so that people can see what it looks like, despite her cutting them up into quarters.
Along with the cookie samples, Andrea provided a questionnaire for tasters to fill out, to record their tasting notes, thoughts and opinions, as well as homemade paper towel wet wipes, because these are quite messy cookies.
So she left them for her coworkers so that they can wipe their faces of chocolate and as well as water and cold milk.
The clock struck noon and Andrea sent the word out to the editorial team and across the kitchen.
This taste test was ready to begin.
All their glory.
Holy cow, they're huge.
What do you think, David?
Yeah, they look awesome.
I feel like I need a glass of milk, though.
Oh, there is milk.
Nice.
And yours provided.
Other than the sounds of dishwashing and obvious cooking equipment noises, it's very quiet because everyone's got their mouth full of cookies.
And they're scattered all over the test kitchen right now.
Everyone's eating cookies, eating a bite, and then writing things down.
Hell, I want some.
After a few minutes of careful tasting and note-taking, Andrea called the group back to give an explainer of each cookie, calling out interesting ingredients and techniques.
Of course, the formula for the real Levin cookie is a closely guarded secret, so Andrea and the team were just guessing.
Obviously, this is the Levin cookie.
We got it from this shop in the seaport today, so they're very fresh.
And we don't know anything about that one, except you know I have seen a lot of videos from Levin, but that's kind of the black box.
This is the Levin-style super thick chocolate chip cookies from Serious Eats by Stella Parks.
This one has the sugar and the butter really creamed.
There are some questions from the crowd about oven temperature, ingredient inclusions and exclusions and, of course, the baking methods.
Did they say why in the case of E, like freezing it, and in the case of B, like the overnight rest?
Why?
Yeah, so I don't think it's so much an overnight rest, although it might be.
The taste testers noted that the original cookie from the Levin shop tasted a bit under-seasoned compared to the others.
The other four samples had a range of descriptions from too pale to tasting too raw.
And in the end, we took an informal vote.
Who liked A the best?
Well, A is like, I mean, I thought we were ranking them like the others.
One cookie was a clear favorite, and it wasn't the batch from the Levin bakery.
Recipe B from Stella Parks, which tasters noted as having a good crisp exterior, a high percentage of chips and nuts and a strong vanilla flavor, gave Andrea an idea for what tasters were looking for.
So, on the whole, my takeaways are that people want a soft, moist interior, but they don't want it to have a raw flavor, which makes me wonder if there's a temp at which the raw flavor is cooked out, that eggs and starches aren't so set that you lose that kind of under baked texture and consistency.
They want a crisp cookie shell that surrounds that soft, moist interior.
They want semi-sweet chocolate nut milk, more salt than the levain cookie has, because it balances the sweetness.
The next step, her favorite part of the whole recipe development process, was up next.
What I call the play, like the playing period, which is just where I take what I've learned from the five recipe and I sort of have some theories about how this recipe will work.
And then I just make a bunch of cookies.
And so then, the objective of this playing period is to come up with what I think is a good working recipe.
Andrea starts by tackling the challenge of shape and size.
She needs to achieve the Leven cookie's lofty height and limit the cookie spread in the oven while baking.
Andrea thought that the secret to this was in the proportion of fat and sugar in the dough formula.
To test this, Andrea made two batches with just dough, no chips or nuts.
One batch was recipe B from the five-recipe test.
The other batch was ATK's perfect chocolate chip cookie recipe and that contained more butter and sugar.
Andrea predicted that batch would spread more.
My theory is that they limit the amount of sugar and butter, which both contribute to spread.
I think they limit it in a Levin-style cookie, and so it doesn't spread as much.
Andrea shaped the cookie dough of each sample into balls of the same size and baked them in the oven for the same time.
Look at that, Andrea.
Yeah, look at that.
The dough from recipe B, the one with less sugar and butter, ended up spreading more and rising higher than the perfect chocolate chip cookies.
So Andrea's theory didn't quite pan out.
No pun intended.
So it's perhaps not as straightforward as I was thinking.
Upon reflection, Andrea realized that this test was flawed.
You actually need the absurd amount of walnuts and chocolate chips to get the right result.
The dough clings to these add-ins, limiting the spread of the cookies in the oven.
Yes, less fat and less sugar helps too, but without those chips and nuts even a lean dough would spread too much in the oven.
Tasters did like the toffee notes imparted by the brown butter in the ATK recipe.
Brown butter would become a part of Andrea's recipe going forward.
So Andrea focused on the next element getting the textural contrast between the crispy exterior and the gooey interior.
Just right.
She remembered something from our trip to the Levenne Bakery.
I also wonder if they dehydrate the exterior.
Mmm.
How would they achieve that?
If you want to dry something out and you don't have air conditioning, your fridge is a good place to do it.
So she conducted a series of tests with the working recipe dough, chips and nuts included, starting with the extremes.
The first test was freezing the cookie dough overnight and baking them when they're still frozen.
The theory was that freezing the dough would also halt it from spreading too much as it baked.
Because these were baked from frozen, I want to make sure that they're up to at least 160 degrees on the inside.
That will mean that they're food safe.
When Andrea baked the cookie balls next day, the cookies were the right shape and didn't spread.
However, the inside wasn't just soft.
It was pasty and tasted raw.
If freezing the dough balls was too much, maybe refrigerating them would achieve the right texture.
The batch that was baked after an overnight rest in the refrigerator was perfectly browned on the outside and had that softer gooey center that Andrea was looking for.
Our science editor, Paul Adams, weighed in on the importance of refrigeration.
The most important thing that's happening is they're getting cold as things do in the fridge, so that when they're in the oven, the temperature difference between the outside and the inside is that much greater.
It takes them longer for the interior to warm up, and so the outside has enough time to really set fully, while the inside doesn't overcook.
But also in the fridge.
The butter solidifies, which limits the spread, and the starch and protein absorb more water, which also limits the spread and produces more of an integrated set flavor.
After the refrigeration test, Andrea would go on to complete 10 additional tests, experimenting with things like the optimal rack position for baking, leaving the dough balls in the fridge covered and uncovered, substituting pecans for walnuts and even baking these cookies in the air fryer.
I could not get the air fryer to work.
I tried different temps and times and even platforms on which to bake it, and I just couldn't get them to bake on the bottom.
And the bottom is a big source of the texture, I think.
Lucky for those of us who would like just one giant cookie at a time.
The toaster oven worked, so that's okay.
Andrea and I made over 30 batches to get this cookie recipe to the final tasting.
But before she could send out this recipe to home bakers to test in their own kitchens, she had one more thing to finesse.
The right balance of chocolate chips and walnuts.
How much is too much?
And will the at-home recipe testers think that this cookie is just, well, too much of everything?
After the break what will Andrea's final test uncover about the perfect formula for this giant cookie?
And will our at-home testers agree?
Stick around to find out.
Hi, listeners.
It's Morgan Bowling.
You know, every recipe starts on a cutting board.
So if you want cooking to be easier, you need a better board, one that handles all the chopping and slicing and looks good enough to bring to the table.
That's where Teak House comes in.
They transform one of the most beautiful woods on earth teak into cutting and serving boards that not only look gorgeous but go far beyond functional.
Each board is handcrafted using teak from sustainable plantations, so you're bringing sustainability, beauty and longevity into your kitchen with every use.
For more than 10 years, Teak House has been a top choice for wooden boards, so you know you can trust them for their quality and performance.
Teak House's boards aren't just cutting boards.
They're kitchen masterpieces.
And with the right care, a Teak House board can last for decades.
Visit teakhouse.com to learn more.
That's T-E-A-K-H-A-U-S dot com.
And now, back to our story.
Andrea had finally nailed down the ideal texture and cookie shape.
But there was one more thing that she had to figure out.
The chunky fillings.
Over the course of a couple tastings, Andrea kept hearing the same note.
I'm having like a hard time determining the interior on all these tests because it's just so much chocolate.
There's just way too much chips all the time.
Sounds like a weird problem to have.
Too many chocolate chips all the time.
But Andrea needed to make sure that the interior of this cookie's consistency was correct.
I think I need to cut back the chips a little bit for now because I think it's throwing people off.
It's hard to know where the gooey is coming from, whether it's underbaked dough or whether it's molten chips.
So I need to cut it back temporarily.
So Andrew reduced the number of chocolate chips in the recipe, and an unexpected issue appeared.
Someone said they could taste the leaveners which, for a baker, is not something that you ever want to hear.
Leaveners, like.
Baking powder and baking soda are ingredients that help the dough rise, but they can impart a metallic taste if used too much.
Yum, right?
The amount of leaveners in Andrea's recipe was higher than typical chocolate chip cookies.
More leavener improved the texture and helped decrease the spread.
But it seemed as though the amount of chocolate chips could have been masking the leavening flavors.
So Andrea did another test, comparing different brands of chocolate chips.
She had been using the widely available and more affordable chocolate chips from Nestle Tollhouse.
Her theory was that the flavor of a more premium chocolate chip brand might solve the problem.
I tried Ghirardelli yesterday.
I don't know if you had those.
But I did a test where I think those are just so big that they were just too gooey.
There was no need to make these cookies even messier to eat.
So Andrea tried Guitard's chocolate chips next.
And in the end, tasters actually preferred the nostalgic taste of the Toll House chips.
And tasters liked the way that these small chips managed to break through the crusty shell and yet remain really melty in the middle.
They were the perfect choice.
So yes, Andrea did end up reducing the amount of chocolate chips, but only by 25%.
Problem solved.
There were no more complaints about tasting the leavener.
But there was still the question of one more pesky ingredient, the walnuts.
Walnuts are definitely divisive.
As I noted in my proposal, I think that it was a really audacious choice for the women who started making these cookies, because walnuts are one of the least popular of the nuts, I think because of that astringency that you get from the skins.
And Andrea's preferred method of preparing those walnuts?
Toast them in the oven to impart a more complex flavor and give them what you would call chest compressions to break the nuts down into cookie-sized pieces.
I don't want these nuts to be too fine.
So what I've found works better.
It's more efficient and also I get the size that I want.
I just put them in a big pile on my cutting board and I just crush them with the heel of my hand.
Yeah, it looks like I'm giving them CPR, but With the walnuts now incorporated.
Andrea held one last tasting.
She had her final recipe go up against a batch from the Levin shop in a blind tasting.
So we had two people who liked them both and didn't have a strong preference.
We had two people who still prefer the Levin.
And we had one, two, three.
Three.
Eight people who preferred the new recipe.
So the final tally in the test kitchen was this.
Eight votes for Andrea's cookie and two for the cookies that we bought at Levin.
Andrea's recipe won.
So there we are.
And that's good.
You know the Levin cookie is such a great cookie.
I would be surprised if everybody preferred the new one.
But I'm very happy with that result.
In a post-tasting meeting, Andrea met with her editors and went through her tests and what she discovered.
And usually even keeled, Andrea expressed a little worry for the next phase of the process.
I'm just, frankly, I'm afraid.
I think this is not going to do well on survey.
The survey an important part of America's Test Kitchen's recipe development process, sending this recipe in progress out to testers from every corner of the United States to try for themselves.
When I send a recipe out to survey, there are a bunch of different things I'm looking for.
And one of them is just, did the recipe work?
You know, did the recipe make what we said that it was going to make?
Andrea was feeling a bit nervous about how this recipe would be received.
These cookies, on first read of the recipe, kind of feel like a mistake.
Six ounces of dough for one cookie?
Are you serious?
The first week that this recipe went out to testers, the Make Again score was 77, which sounds high, but it's actually relatively low for a chocolate chip cookie recipe.
At ATK recipes need at least 80 of testers to say that they want to make this recipe again in order to be considered ready for publication.
And those first comments were honest, to say the least.
They aren't as good leftover.
Parentheses.
And they aren't that great to begin with.
Close parentheses.
Cookies are obscenely large.
Who needs a cookie this big?
It's much too large, even for two people.
This portion size is very, quote, American, unquote.
Yeah, some people just don't mince words.
Andrea even sent me an email with the subject line, Lavenne Cookie Struggling, and my heart sank.
She was just trying to manage expectations, but I could feel the anxiety behind that message.
Because, of course, when we develop a recipe, You know the recipe developer is the primary person involved, but there are a lot of people counting on their recipe developer to do a good job because we want to be able to edit the story on time and take the photographs.
And if there are difficulties at this stage, it can throw a lot of people's lives out of whack.
But after the first weekend, things started to pick up.
The make-again score rose and, more importantly, many at-home testers who had never had a Levin cookie before were enjoying it.
Odd to read these um, because it feels like I'm bragging, but these are somebody else's words.
So the cookies were fantastic.
I'd never heard of Levin style cookies before so I didn't have a point of comparison, but these turned out wonderfully.
I measured everything by weight, by grams, which I found over the years gets me much more consistent results than using volume measurements.
That's a good lesson there.
For sure they were big exclamation point delicious.
I reached out to two of our at-home testers to understand why they liked this cookie.
I'm Beth, and I'm calling from Springfield, Missouri.
My name is Peg.
I live in far northwest Michigan.
Beth had been a recipe tester off and on for close to 10 years and Peg had been a recipe tester for 20.
I asked Beth if she was familiar with Levin or had heard of the bakery before.
No, I'm not, but who doesn't like a chocolate chip cookie?
So it seemed like a fun recipe to test.
While Beth had never had a Levin cookie before, Peg had actually made copycat recipes at home.
So I came across a Levin recipe.
But I was interested in the ones that you were making because it was quite a bit different in some ways.
Yours called for vanilla.
And according to the first recipe that I had, it said, where's the vanilla?
The owners of Levain have repeatedly stated they do not use vanilla extract in the recipe.
So I was really curious how your recipe would stack up against this one that supposedly was a clone.
So Peg wasn't surprised by the size of these cookies when she was portioning out the dough.
Oh, no, I knew they were monster.
The recipes that I had was they were about five ounces plus for the cookies.
I was able to get eight of them out of the recipe, just almost spot on.
As far as the weight of the cookies, it was perfect.
And Beth thought about the same, despite never seeing a Levin cookie before.
I thought the description was very appropriate.
It was definitely going to be a shareable cookie.
And I was excited to get to share it because I have a granddaughter that loves cookies.
And I know, when I gave it to my daughter and she shared with me later, that Ainsley sat down and ate it like an apple.
She just went at it and had the best time.
And so that brought me so much joy.
And as for those walnuts, were they really as divisive as Andrea was thinking they would be?
Did you mind them in this cookie at all?
Not at all.
No, not at all.
Because they were toasted, that gave them kind of a nice crunch, nice taste.
I think walnuts are a nice option.
I mean pecans are sweeter, but it's a nice contrast with the sweetness of the chocolate and the brown sugar and the butter.
So I thought it paired really nicely together.
And the most important question I had to ask, and the big question for you Beth, is would you make this recipe again?
Oh, I look forward to making it again.
For sure.
And for Peg?
Oh, 100%.
100%.
I already have.
For that matter.
Andrea's worries about the recipe in the survey proved not to be worth losing sleep over.
Sure, the concept of these giant, one cookie serves two people might be hard to understand.
But once Beth Peg and over 300 other testers tried this recipe, they were pleased with the results.
Meanwhile, in our photo studio, Andrea's cookie was having its moment in front of the camera.
Longtime food photographer Steve Kleiss helped direct the lucky person tasked as the hand model.
I think the reason why we want to get hands involved in this shot is just because if you don't have that sense of scale from something where you know how big it is, it's the size of a pub-style hamburger, for God's sake.
Having those hands in there gives you that frame of reference to say, whoa, this is a big cookie.
I spoke to Andrea one more time just to see how she was feeling now that the recipe development process has ended and now she's moved on to new recipes.
My hope with every recipe that I develop is is not only that people can add something that they love to their cooking or baking repertoire, but also that they learn something else that they can maybe apply to other dishes as well.
Watching this recipe come to fruition after months of testing and hundreds of cookies has left me in awe of both Andrea and the system we're working in.
I won't shut up when people talk about cookies because I'm trying to say, no, you don't understand.
Cookies are actually so complex.
And they look at me like I have three heads.
But I've seen it myself.
I've had the opportunity to ride along with an amazing baker who's achieved her goal of making a recipe that I hope our readers will love.
Make the dough, cool it in the fridge, bake it up and get back to me after washing it down with a tall glass of milk.
And don't forget the wet wipes.
You're going to need them.
Thanks to Angelica Quintanilla-McCall for bringing us today's story.
Listeners, if you want to bake Andrea's take on the famed Levan cookie, check out the link in the episode description.
We've made this recipe available for free on our website and app.
These cookies are so good.
Cold milk, highly recommended.
You can also watch Andrea make the final recipe step-by-step on our app.
Use the cook mode feature to catch the action.
And if you want to see video highlights from Andrea's recipe development process, check out the Test Kitchen's Instagram and TikTok accounts.
Finally, if you'd like to test recipes at home for America's Test Kitchen, use the link in the episode description.
We'll send you a recipe every few weeks.
Make the ones that appeal to you and tell us what you think.
If you like Proof, be sure to subscribe wherever you listen so you can get new episodes as soon as they drop.
And while you're there, why not leave us a rating or write us a review?
It really helps other people find the show.
This episode was hosted by me, Jack Bishop, and the podcast is made by the following cast of characters
I'm Yumi Araki, the managing producer.
I'm executive producer Caitlin Kelleher.
I'm senior producer Alex Curran-Cardarelli.
I'm associate producer Angelica Quintanilla.
I'm associate producer Louise Curran-Kensler.
And I'm Kyla Forman-Andrade, the TV and podcast intern.
Audio services are provided by Ultraviolet Audio, with scoring, mixing and sound design by Matt Boynton.
Brian Campbell of Signal Sounds composed our theme music, additional music by Kyle Forrester and Jordan Pearson is our director of post-production and our director of production is Diane Knox.
Fact-checking and additional research by Sarah D. Collins.
Special thanks to Shannon Bushy, Peg from Michigan, Beth from Missouri, Kim from Oregon and all of our at-home testers.
Thanks also to the A2K staff who welcomed Angelica into meetings and tastings.
Finally, special thanks to Emily Siner for her amazing assistance with this episode.
Nina Gianelli is the Senior Vice President of Television, Video, and Podcasts.
Dan Souza is the Chief Content Officer, and Dan Surratt is America's Test Kitchen's CEO.
Proof is a production of America's Test Kitchen.
This podcast is part of the Airwave Media Podcast Network.
Visit airwavemedia.com to listen and subscribe to their other fine shows. an Airwave Media podcast.
