The CIE is a very special expo because it's a national strength and a national willingness to import things from other countries.
The European Union and European companies recognize the importance of the Chinese markets in different sectors.
And this is what could explain the participation of so many different European companies in the exhibition, not only this year, but the years before.
The strategic pivot of foreign companies in China for the world marks China's transition.
Its transition from a world factory to a pivotal global innovation and supply chain nexus.
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The Chat Lounge unpacks views and opinions on hot issues in a more casual way.
Welcome to the Chat Lounge.
I'm Xu Yawen.
China's massive import fear is back and is bigger than ever.
Over 4000 companies from 155 countries and regions have set up shops at this year's China International Import Expo, where opportunity meets new markets.
U.S. firms, for the seventh year in a row, are leading the pack with the biggest exhibition space.
But beyond the numbers, what's fueling the CIA's magnetic pull and how is China's open-door approach reshaping global trade?
Joining me today to discuss these questions and more, are Dr Zhou Mi, Senior Research Fellow at the Chinese Academy of International Trade and Economic Cooperation, Professor Joseph Gregory Mahoney, Professor of Politics and International Relations at East China Normal University, and Professor George Zougopoulos, Director of EU-China Programs and Senior Research Fellow at European Institute of Nice.
Welcome to the chat.
Dr. Zhou, let me start with you first.
We know this year's CIE has attracted over 4000 companies from 155 countries and regions, setting a new record in scale.
What do you think is the main reason the CIE continues to attract businesses around the world?
Well, I would say the CIE is a very special expo because it's a national strength and a national willingness to import things from other countries.
So it's a little bit strange at first.
You know, eight years ago when China proposed this kind of idea,
The other countries didn't know that why China is going to do with that.
So you know, in the previous eight years we have seen that a lot of situation has changed, like the trade rules or many kind of uncertainty.
But China still committed to you know, to just not hold this expo, but also trying to make it better and better.
So I think that is really a very important commitment to the international community and other countries.
They started by surprise, and now they really have some confidence in doing business with China.
So, especially this year, we are seeing so many uncertainty, like the protectionism tariffs, a lot of changes of the commitment.
I think that the world is thinking, how can we deal with this kind of problem?
China as the second largest consumption market in the world.
We are really a potential area for so many countries to Oxford too.
So I think that is the reason why CII is so popular here and this year.
So it's a kind of firm commitment and also our continued efforts to improve the input from other countries and trying to facilitate all the processes.
Professor Mahoney, as Dr Zhou just mentioned, that China has maintained this position as the world's second largest import market consumption market for 16 years.
Aside from this supersized market, what are the other key factors that make the CIE so consistently attractive to global businesses?
And how do you interpret the message the Expo is meant to send?
Well, you know, I think the CIE's consistent appeal is largely a result of its evolution into a multifunctional platform, one that offers unparalleled market access but also serves as a global innovation stage.
It creates opportunities for fostering strategic partnerships.
And we know, given the premier attending and offering the introductory speech, it operates with a very high level of institutional support.
And again, as Dr Joe was mentioning, it provides a predictable and collaborative environment for international business, which is, of course, all the more attractive given the disruptions we've seen coming particularly out of Washington this year.
But I think, you know, what we're seeing beyond this is a shift in marketing mindsets.
We know that for global brands, success at the CIIE is something that now requires more than just coming and showing up and signing the sign-in sheet and having a nice little booth.
It's become this place where people can come and tell their stories, where companies need to demonstrate how they are contributing to China's future priorities, including innovation and sustainable growth.
And I think that what they're finding, of course, is that the most effective narratives are being delivered through partnership with local Chinese teams, showcasing this genuine long-term partnership with the market.
I think we're also seeing this transition from selling to China to growing from China, where multinational corporations are increasingly using their presence in China as a strategic base for global operations.
And we also see IIE continuously refreshing its appeal by highlighting new economic sectors to China.
Encourage wider global participation.
And this is something that I think has not only served some of the developed economies.
It's also we've seen it really impacting some of the least developed countries, where they have special set-asides or special booth areas where they can come in and start building a market position in China.
These are things that have always been part of it, but we see this expanding year after year.
And in contrast with US policy.
These are some of the reasons why it remains so consistently attractive.
Professor Mahoney, one thing that's very interesting, I think is worth noting, is that US companies have maintained the largest exhibition area at the CIE for the seventh consecutive years.
And this year, representatives from American soybeans industries are also participating.
And considering the ups and downs in US-China trade relations, especially in the sector of soybeans, how do you think the continued strong participation of US companies at the CIE reflects American businesses' approach toward Chinese markets?
Well, I think there are two answers here.
I think on the first.
The robust presence of US companies at the Expo is a continuing powerful testament that on the ground commercial logic and the imperatives of the global supply chain.
They often transcend political headlines.
And for a large number of these firms, participating in China's market is not only is not simply a matter of short-term political calculation, but a long-term necessity for maintaining their global competitiveness.
Now, with regard to soybeans, I think many of us probably saw Lu Xin's interview with some of the US soybean industry representatives who were at the Expo, and all of them were very happy to be at the Expo.
They were very optimistic that the recent meeting between President Xi and President Trump would see a return to sales.
We know that the US agriculture industry right now is suffering tremendously, that for 2025 2026, soybean alone is expected to lose 10 billion.
And we know that this is largely attributable to the policies that Washington has pursued through tariffs and in particular, for directing tariffs at China.
Now, one of the interesting things at the end of that interview was that Lu Xin asked if they could already see movement in the market.
And they said, not yet.
But they're hoping to see it soon.
But I think one of the things we have to realize is that already China has strategically moved 70 of its soybean purchases to Brazil.
Brazil is, of course, a member of BRICS.
Brazil doesn't have an antagonistic policy towards China.
And I think on average metric ton, the price is $21 cheaper for Brazilian soybeans.
Now we do know that China did commit to, I think, buying 12 million metric tons before the end of the year and then, I think, somewhere around something in the mid-20s for next year.
But the long-term strategy seems to be China diversifying its position, shifting its purchases to Brazil.
And then we also see that China has been reviving and expanding its own soybean industry to make it less vulnerable to outside pressures.
So, although we may see some rebound in the US soybean industry, with China buying more, I think that the hard lesson of the last couple of years is that China needs to be more self-reliant, but also be able to buy its food from partners that aren't going to play games with prices.
Let me come to Professor Zougopoulos.
Professor.
So Europe's leading manufacturers, including the Dutch chip-making gear firm ASML, and German companies like Siemens and Schott, have all participated in this year's CIE.
Their executives emphasize the importance of the event as a platform for innovation and growth in China.
So, considering the rapid developments in AI, new energy vehicles and semiconductors, how do you see the CIE helping European companies strengthen their presence in the Chinese market and foster long-term collaboration?
Well, to start with, the European Union and European companies recognize the importance of the Chinese markets in different sectors.
And this is what could explain the participation of so many different European companies in the exhibition, not only this year, but the years before.
So at the economic and at the business level, there is a clear interest for collaboration.
The problem that exists in today's world is that the European leadership is concerned about China's technological success.
And this is posing some new challenges as far as the participation and the integration of European companies into the Chinese market is concerned, and vice versa.
So I would distinguish two different levels of analysis.
The first is the economic level, where clear opportunities for collaboration are existing, and the participation of so many different companies in the SAGAI exhibition is a clear example, as you correctly pointed out.
But the second level of analysis is that of political disagreements and divergences between the European Union and China.
But even here I see in the recent weeks that there are important talks which are taking place in order to deal with existing disagreements.
So, on the whole, I would argue that there is no one in Europe who would not acknowledge the reality about China's technological success.
And I remain hopeful that the participation of so many different European companies in the Shanghai market might be a good signal for collaboration in the future.
Professor Zagopoulos, I want to take a second to discuss this company, ASML.
We know in the past year or two this Dutch tech giant's business in China has been affected by US chip export controls.
That's your CIE.
The company's senior official, Shen Bo, who's the executive vice president of ASML Global and president of ASML China, said his company's participation in the event is not for commercial purpose, but to echo the spirit of open cooperation.
So, against the backdrop of this US export controls on semiconductor equipment to China, how do you view the strategic balance European tech giants are trying to strike between adhering to their home country's regulatory demands and maintaining deep engagement with the Chinese market?
Well, this is a very important question, which is reflecting the current debate that exists in the European Union.
And, as I said before, there is a clear economic appetite for collaboration with China.
But this appetite for economic collaboration with China is clashing with different political and strategic interests which are certainly dominating the political discourse in today's world.
So the example of the Dutch company that you mentioned is highlighting exactly this trend that exists in Europe today.
So on the one hand, this Dutch company is looking into the Chinese economy market as an opportunity, because it is selling its own semiconductors and it can increase its profitability in so doing, and at the same time it can also benefit by the innovation which is at least in the Chinese market.
But at the same time, the export controls which are advocated for by the United States but to some extent endorsed by the European Union, are certainly impacting on the export strategy of this Dutch company and of other companies which operate in Europe and are exporting technological products.
So, once again, I would argue that it is important for the political leaderships of China and the European Union to intensify contacts.
And it's very positive that even at the highest trade level between China and the European Union, consultations are continuing in order for solutions to be found, because it's not only the example that you mentioned, it's also the example of Nexperi, another Dutch company, which is currently at the epicenter of the news.
I remain hopeful that, through dialogue, solutions might be found, because I know that the disagreements are existing but, at the same time, if there is a will, there is always a way.
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In a more casual way, Dr Zhou, let's now zoom in to Chinese Premier Li Jiang's keynote speech at the opening ceremony of the CIA.
So Premier Li said China remained resolute about supporting globalization and consolidating its economic ties with trading partners.
And he also said that China's 15th five-year plan offers the world two certainties.
First, certainty of development, and second, certainty of opening up.
What do you make of these two certainties that he stressed, and what does this signal to the international businesses?
Well, you know, this kind of message is not our single one.
President Xi Jinping just went to South Korea and he gave a speech in the AIPAC meeting and also he addresses the importance of different countries and economies in the world in such an uncertain world.
So this is kind of a very important continuous commitment by Chinese governments that we want to fulfill our commitments as opening up and development.
So it's really a big issue about, you know, the world's different countries, to think about what China is going to do with such kind of uncertainty, like from the different or predicted tariffs or a lot of other issues.
I mean, our answer is very clear and very simple.
It is that we respect the multilateral system.
We want to continue with our promises in the globalization and in the multilateral system.
And I think that is natural for us to fulfill our commitments.
Although there may be some interactions, interruptions or kind of impacts from other countries, we have to choose the right route for better collaboration.
I think that you can find that also in the CIIE.
We are seeing many companies are really voting by their actions, instead of just saying something you know as a slogan, as you just mentioned the ASML.
They really are trying to stay here in China.
Although there may be some interruptions from the government, they still want to grasp the opportunities.
As China, I don't think that we are trying to do something to protect ourselves for the isolation.
We are going to continually decrease our tariffs for importing from other countries.
It's not just trying to fulfill our commitments in WTO.
We have already fulfilled that many years ago.
We continue to open our market for the investors for different kinds of products, stakeholders because we believe that is the right way for us to benefit from this cooperation.
So opening up is not just a benefit to the other side, also benefit us, because you can find that in the previous several decades Chinese companies are getting stronger and more competitive because of this openness.
We have a better platform to compete with our partners or also to cooperate with them.
So I think that is the experiences we have gained from our own history.
And I think that is also the principle that will lead us in the coming years.
So this kind of opening up is not just trying to force other countries to obey China's decisions or accept our rules.
We are sit together to discuss about the rules, the possible rules, or possible, or the right way, moving forward.
Actually, This afternoon I joined our talk with some African country friends and I think that most of them really want to connect with China because we are a super large market and we are providing so many opportunities.
We are helping them to increase their capacities in such an uncertain world.
So this is really our kind of strategy.
I think that it's just the benefit for most of us.
And that is the reason why we can see so many people are really want to stand with China and strengthen the connections with Chinese market.
That is the way the market is doing business.
Professor Mahoney.
Premier Li also said at the event that China's economy will maintain its current global pace and suggested that China's GDP is expected to surpass 170 trillion yuan in five years, and that's about 239 trillion by 2030.
What does that figure reflect about China's economic strategy moving forward, especially in terms of shifting from quantity-driven growth to a more consumption-driven model?
Well, you're right.
I think one of the things that we've heard so far are analysts suggesting that this implies a nominal annual GDP growth rate of about 4 to 5 through 2030, shifting focus from sheer speed to the quality and sustainability of expansion.
It signifies a fundamental transformation of China's economic engine.
The strategy is to harness the vast potential of the domestic market to fuel future growth.
Now we know that China's consumption structure is undergoing a profound change, with the angle coefficient falling into the wealthy range and per capita GDP rising.
Spending is shifting rapidly from basic necessities to services education, culture and experiences what is termed development-oriented consumption.
Now, this evolution is a core objective of China's high-quality development agenda.
Now the government is actively implementing policies to solidify consumption as the main engine of the economy, and this includes initiatives like the Consumer Goods Trade-In Program, promoting new consumption formats and aiming to push total retail sales beyond 50 trillion yuan.
Now the goal is to create a virtuous cycle where a robust domestic market strengthens the entire economic system.
As this relates to sort of the broader interest of China's international partners.
The fact that the premier announced this at CII is itself a powerful signal.
You know, China is positioning its vast and growing consumer market as a key opportunity for global businesses.
And, by the way, China has always been committed to reform and opening up.
But I think to go back to the third plenum last year where they inverted the longstanding rubric of reform so we can open up.
But now we've reached a threshold where China realizes that it needs to accelerate opening up to really drive the next stage of reforms.
So I think it's always important to go back to that third plenum and remember that this is the key strategy now.
And, of course, coming not ironically but in a sense logically, as some of the other countries are moving into protectionist positions.
Now, while China is advocating for openness, it's also demonstrating a capacity for what it terms rules-based countermeasures.
In the face of protectionism and we've seen in the recent rare earth export control system, and we see it as a strategic shift from simple tariffs to more sophisticated regulatory and legal tools to safeguard.
Chinese interest and assert its position in the global rules debate.
But you know, despite these frictions, I think it's also clear that China's official stance emphasizes that it's a major, it's a responsible, major country committed to working with others to maintain the stability and efficiency of global industrial and supply chains.
And the stability of China's own production and consumption is presented as a source of certainty for the world economy.
So, to summarize here, the 170 trillion yuan target is a clear marker of China's future growth, a focus on internal demand and qualitative growth.
But for the world, this means China will increasingly function as a massive consumption market, creating opportunities for global companies.
And, at the same time, it signals China's intention to be more assertive, to be a more assertive shaper of international trade rules, navigating geopolitical tensions, while at the same time advocating for its vision of a stable and interconnected global economy.
Professor Zougopoulos.
So Professor Mahoney and Dr Zhou both mentioned the term high quality growth, which is also stressed in Premier Li's remarks.
He emphasized China's commitment to high quality development and further opening up its economy.
So, from a European perspective, what opportunities does China's high quality development offer offer EU businesses looking to expand in China?
And do you believe the European Union is prepared to embrace China's development path moving forward?
And, if so, where do you think the EU and China can find common ground in trade as they face external challenges?
Both my esteemed colleagues are correct in their analysis.
But please allow me to start with another term that can nicely explain the course of the Chinese economy over the last years, which is resilience.
I like to use this term because the Chinese economy has managed to overcome different challenges, from the COVID-19 pandemic to wars which are happening in different parts of the world.
And despite some negative prognostics in the West.
We see that even this year, the Chinese economy is in the course of reaching 5 growth, or something like that, which is a quite good performance, especially in comparison to other European economies, for example.
So the term resilience is outlining the effort which is made by the Chinese authorities to stabilize the economy.
And this gives me now the opportunity also to talk about high quality growth and opportunities which are existing as far as collaboration between the European Union and China is concerned.
For instance, is the success of the Chinese industry in producing electric vehicles, which is an issue of high interest of the European Union, not only in terms of the business success of Chinese companies, but also in terms of the impact that the Chinese electric vehicles might have in bringing China and Europe together toward meeting the climate change goals.
That is to say, that the European Union and China can find together strategies that can be based on a mix of business collaboration and political collaboration as far as important objectives are concerned.
And having said that, certainly the Chinese market and the innovation which is unleashed in the Chinese market can offer European companies opportunities toward this direction.
So, again in this spirit, I would say that political divergences, which certainly constitute a challenge, might be to some extent overcome in the sake of both sides, achieving common objectives which are important for the humanity, such as to deal with climate change, especially in today's world where the United States is no longer interested in abiding by the principles of the Paris Agreement.
You're listening to The Chat Lounge.
We've been discussing the highlights of this year's China International Import Expo.
Coming up after the break.
We will take a closer look at how China's open door approach is reshaping the global trade and what this means for emerging markets around the world.
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Welcome back to the chat lounge.
Let's continue our discussion.
Dr Joel, one of the highlights of this year's CIIE is its focus on future industries like the low altitude economy and humanoid robotics, with domestic and international companies.
Bring your latest achievements to the expo.
And with China being a key market and manufacturing hub, as well as a significant source of green innovation and sustainable development, how do you see these emerging industries shaping the future of global supply chains?
Well, I agree that you know when we are talking about these new and emerging industries, or we call it the future industries.
China is really our, you know, kind of pioneers in proposing these kind of industries scenario where supply chain creation targets.
Maybe China is not leading every aspect, but I think that our Chinese government is very clear that we want to increase this new technology.
So in this regard, you can see that, especially for some kind of a target or goals by the Chinese government, they're really trying to encourage the society, the economies and the enterprises to pay attention to these kinds of new ideas.
These new technologies are competing very hard in China.
I mean Chinese domestic companies are really trying to have a better position in the supply chains of the artificial intelligence or new energy vehicles or other new energy products and services.
So, based on these kind of ideas, I think that the government is providing a better regulation environment and also some laws and other very certainty for the development.
As we know that for the new technology it has to be sometime.
You know when the companies are putting more money than they can get from the environment.
So they need some patience.
They need some confidence about the development.
If they are not able to see a sustainable development, and a stable future.
No one will try to put risks in this kind of investment.
In China we are having a very good basis for this new technology because the manufacturing basis, because the people, especially the consumers in China, are really curious to try the new things.
That is what you can find in the exports, no matter in canton or in shanghai.
I think it's a really a kind of intention for the people to to try the new things, which have given our very big support for the companies who are doing that things.
So uh for, you know, collaboration in the world.
Some countries are just trying to blocking the export control of those high-tech related, you know products, equipment or even services.
But China is willing to share our development opportunities with our friends.
That's the reason why you can see in the CIE Expo many companies are trying to show their ideas, maybe not so strong as an application, but they really want to bring their ideas here to China.
And maybe they can try to find some possible partners here in China.
I think that is based on the mutual understanding about the post and the trust of the Chinese market.
And that will bring even bigger support for the development of those industries technology and also to reduce the cost allowed, which is very important for commercializing those technologies and trying to come from the laboratory to the market.
I think that's the reason why they come here and why they just trust that they can have a better development in China.
Regarding to the future industry, China has actually put a lot of emphasis and investment into this field, in the high-tech sectors.
Data, like from last year, shows that China's research and development expenditure surpassed the 36 trillion yuan, making China the world's second largest research and development investor.
And because of that huge amount of investment.
That could be one of the factors that Today China is at this leading position in many high-tech sector.
Let me just add one comment to your discussion.
You're absolutely correct that China has been accelerating its investment in research and development.
And it's done this consistently through the years.
But we've seen some major increases in the last several years.
I think this has always been part of a long-term strategy as China was moving up the value chain.
And certainly as we were approaching new points sometimes we even call them singularities with paradigm shifting technologies.
And, of course, these developments have been made all the more dear by the US trying to impose effectively technology blockades.
But in addition to the increases in RD, I think it's always important to recall that China has long done a very good job in training students and professionals in STEM-related fields.
So China has this tremendous foundation for being able to produce people who can make these contributions to the economy.
China has long had this tremendous capacity for training students and other professionals in STEM and has long been the envy of countries like the United States for this ability.
And so we see these efforts maturing in a lot of different ways now.
As I think Dr Zhou said earlier, China isn't the absolute leader in all the major fields right now, but it is a leader in several and a close competitor in the rest.
But in my own research, one of the things that I've emphasized is that China today is the world's most advanced technological society, not in terms of absolute basic sciences or tech supremacy, but in the way that you can find government tech abilities, the commercial sector, the people all pulling together to provide comprehensive solutions to challenges, but also exploiting opportunities.
And I think it's in this context that we can view CIIE as one of these tech solutions, one of these social tech solutions.
And this is what is captivating for a lot of people as they come to China.
And certainly when people come to Shanghai and they see how incredibly convenient life is here in terms of digital governance, digital payments, the ability to move quickly around the city in very efficient ways and get access to the information or services or products that they need.
It's really sort of established, I think, a global standard that even other cities like Hong Kong I have so many friends from Hong Kong and when they come to Shanghai they're just blown away by what they see here, relative to even what you can find in Hong Kong.
And, of course, what you can find in Shanghai, you can also find in Beijing Shenzhen, Guangzhou and second and even third tier cities throughout China.
Professor Mahoney, let's look into the new measures adopted by CIE at this year's Expo.
You have also mentioned earlier in the program.
So, for the first time, the Expo has established a dedicated exhibition area for products from the least developed countries with diplomatic ties with China, providing free booths for enterprises from 37 least developed countries and enabling them to fully take advantage of zero tariff policies to access Chinese markets.
How do you assess this new measure?
And don't you think that's an example of turning the idea of shared benefits with the world into tangible shared development through the CIE platform, as Premier Li mentioned in his opening speech?
This has been something that has been a recurring theme, So we know that the Expo has been going on for several years and each year, China keeps expanding this component, where they are supporting companies or firms.
They are working with LDCs, especially those who have good, positive relations with China, to identify local producers who can come into the Chinese market and establish themselves, and do so in a way that can bring unique products, good products, to Chinese consumers, but also in ways that can generate sort of a win-win growth model so that these countries in the global south, which we know China has taken a special interest in growing and developing, building strong partnerships, trying to help them break out of centuries really cyclical under development, trying to bring the Chinese miracle, the Chinese solution, to the global south.
All of these things, I think, are part of the much bigger principles that President Xi has repeatedly emphasized in terms of a shared future for humanity, but also, in particular, China standing shoulder to shoulder with the least developed countries, particularly those in the global south, where it believes it can not only provide a constructive role to help them develop, but do so in ways that will also serve the greater interest of China itself.
Professor Zougopoulos.
So this year's Expo has launched a 530-square-meter cross-border e-commerce selection platform integrating product display transaction logistics, live streaming and matchmaking services to create a green channel for over 1500 MSEs for more than 50 countries.
So for MSEs from the global south, unless they develop the nations, many of which face challenges such as limited capital, weak logistics networks and low brand awareness.
How can this integrated platform help them overcome the last mile barriers to entering the Chinese market?
Well, I would start my answer by saying that Not so much is known about this green channel in the West, which is indicative of how China is able to proceed with innovative solutions as far as foreign companies are concerned and the improvement of their services in the Chinese market and beyond are concerned.
So even to talk about an idea which is not very well known in the West illustrates why China is becoming a key player in the sector of innovation.
To be more specific about the grid channel.
What I find very interesting and stimulating is that it goes beyond the issuance of visas into other areas which are facilitating the attraction of capital within China itself from the part of different companies, more state-owned enterprise and beyond.
I know that our discussion is focusing on the Global South in that regard, but I would also like to offer the European perspective.
And it's interesting that this green channel mechanism, for example, is facilitating the attraction of capital through panda bonds.
And there is an EU member state Slovenia, which is interested in the Chinese market in that regard and has issued or will issue panda bonds.
It is another example which is highlighting how this green channel can facilitate the effort of small enterprises to enter the Chinese market and again to expand their presence in the Chinese market and beyond, in Asia and other countries.
So again, the green channel measure in my opinion is a very interesting idea that can be also carefully studied in the West as far as business interconnectivity is concerned.
Dr Zhou.
So, as part of the CIE, the Hongqiao International Economic Forum in Shanghai released this report named World Openness Report 2025, and it shows that China's openness index has increased by nearly 30 over the past 35 years, while global openness edged down in 2024.
What do you believe are the core factors driving China's growth in openness?
Well, I mean in my understanding that China's openness is driven by our policies and also the practices of the enterprises.
Well, in this report they may have a different kind of indicators to show that differences on the attitudes compared with the previous term, like the previous year,
So, in my understanding that China is sending a very clear signal that we want to open our market, that must be our kind of important messages which has been well accepted by the market.
Well.
The second is China is really good at improving our regulation and also the laws to have a better support for the openness.
As an openness, I think that there are two directions, the inward and the outward.
For both sides.
China is improving our practices and trying to reduce barriers, to facilitate all the process and also giving some kind of support, like the cross-border data flow or some of the new practices.
For the third one, I think that openness is also coming from the market performance and expectations.
As the Chinese companies are making some of the deals with their foreign partners.
I think that in the previous year it is becoming easier and easier with the support of the technology and also our better understanding.
As the professors have mentioned, that we are introducing some of this, you know, unilateral openness for the visa-free policies, so that people can come here to China to see them the kind of things happening in China and establish the better you know relations with Chinese counterparts.
That is also the role of the cartoon theater and also CIA.
They are providing opportunities for the people to meet with each other face to face.
That is kind of a very practical and important way for establishing the trust.
So I mean there may be more indicators or kind of dimensions for you know, evaluating the openness.
But I believe that from the heart of the you know the view of the enterprises they really believe that China is trying to open the market wider and wider and also accept the opinions and suggestions from all our friends.
That is very important, especially when some other country is trying to protect them by the isolation.
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Professor Mahoney regarding world openness report.
We have noticed that economies ranking high in the openness index, such as Singapore, Hong Kong, SAR and Ireland, are small or outward-oriented economies that rely heavily on international trade.
Given the rise of protectionism, how do you think developing countries and regions should balance expanding openness with protecting domestic industries?
Well, for developing countries, they have to find the right balance.
They need to make strategic choices in order to build resilient and competitive economies that combine some elements of openness and protection.
So one of the things that I think China has learned from its own experience and I think others can learn from China is that you need to pursue smart and gradual opening.
And the goal is not openness for its own sake, but to find the most suitable level.
You can expand overseas in areas that align with your long-term development goals, like attracting greenfield investments in strategic sectors, while also using temporary WTO consistent measures to protect critical nascent industries.
And so the focus should be on finding a sort of golden combination point.
Additionally, there's a need to sort of diversify trade partnerships.
We know that the global economic center of gravity is shifting.
Developing countries need to actively expand trade within the global south and deepen regional integration.
And this can help reduce over reliance on any single market and help build resilience against things like external tariff shocks.
You know, China's rising openness index shows the potential of what we call, you know, southern vitality as a counterweight to what we contrast with so-called northern sluggishness.
But there's also a need to focus on building domestic capacity.
You know, the ultimate defense is a strong, competitive domestic economy.
Again, the China experience demonstrates that this requires things like investing in innovation, prioritizing policies that boost domestic research and development, as well as encourage tech transfer and help develop human capital.
Also given the challenges we face today with climate change, but also the high cost and strategic costs associated with fossil fuels.
Developing countries need to continue to leverage the digital and green transitions.
They need to treat digital infrastructure and green technology not as luxuries, but as essential foundations for future competitiveness.
And this is going to help them leapfrog, perhaps, away from the old model into something new.
We've seen this, of course, with companies like China's Huawei providing some really cost-effective green communication solutions for even the most remote islands in Indonesia and countries in Africa at really attractive, affordable price points.
So I think ultimately, you know, the choice is not between absolute openness or isolation.
The most viable path is strategic integration, opening selectively to acquire the technology, investment and partnerships needed to upgrade domestic industries and compete more effectively in the long run.
For Professor Zougopoulos, the report also reveals a key turning point for European nations.
It says that the openness of emerging markets and developing economies is rising, while that the developed economies is slightly declining, particularly in Europe, Central Asia and North America.
So how does EU, one of the largest groups of developed economies, view this trend?
And does that mean that, in maintaining multilateralism and the global open trade system, the EU now needs to establish a new partnership with these emerging economies?
This is certainly placed in the European interest to establish new partnerships as far as business and economic opportunities are concerned.
But please allow me to make a few remarks about how the European Union views itself in a changing world, because the European Union attempts to boost its economy and its competitiveness in order not to be squeezed in the antagonism between the United States and China.
So this is the clear objective of the European Union and in so doing, certainly it is interested in collaborating with China under new criteria which are currently being studied in the West.
So the European Union, on the one hand, is interested in expanding collaboration with China.
At the same time however, it is constrained by the new policies and certainly the new American strategy vis-a-vis China.
So this is how the European approach could be better understood.
But, as I said before, there is always an opportunity for China and the European Union to set a joint way forward, despite the problems and the challenges, because this is the desideratum in today's world not to stick on changes, but to attempt and overcome differences in order to respond together to challenges.
And this is how I would see future European and Chinese business strategies to intersect.
Lastly, Dr Joel, We have noticed that many executives of foreign enterprises participating in this year's CIS EU were saying that their operation strategies are transforming from in China for China to in China for the world.
What message does this shift in strategy reflect?
And how do you see this evolving in the coming years as China continues to deepen this integration into the global economy?
Well, I think that is also a kind of a message is coming from the openness of China, because China is supplying the world with so many certainties, including the manufacturing products and also the technology and the solutions, the business models.
So when they are coming here they are providing our kind of their know-how to Chinese market and also have a better support by cooperating with the Chinese counterparties.
So after that they are becoming more competitive and they can also try to support the rest of the world.
As we have discussed, China has a lot of pioneers in some of the future sectors, which means that maybe in the future they will be more important.
So when they come here, they're becoming stronger, they're becoming more competitive and they're becoming more, you know, the ability of able to serve the demand of the rest of the world.
So it's really a kind of you know, win-win situation for the world to benefit from this cooperation.
I don't think China is trying to, you know, to take in all the market share.
We are trying to share our opportunities with our friends.
So they come here, we becoming our you know our kind of cooperation partners and we are going to search the world together and at the same time we are trying to reduce the cost of doing that.
Businesses and that is really our kind of thing that the world can be more affordable to have.
And by this new technology, by the new ideas and also the solutions we can, we can all meet our demand in the different countries in different levels.
Professor Mahoney, what's your take on this?
How do you assess the shift in strategy of these foreign enterprises in China?
Well, I think the strategic pivot of foreign companies in China for the world marks China's transition, which has been underway for some time, but it's certainly accelerating now.
Its transition from a world factory to a pivotal global innovation. and supply chain nexus.
So as China continues to advance high standard, opening up this trend will deepen and further weave China into the fabric of the global economy and foster a new era of mutually beneficial cooperation.
And let me just say one of the things that I have utmost confidence in is China's capacity to innovate solutions to whatever challenges the US or anyone else throws at it, be they related to chips or any other concern.
The one thing that we have seen consistently about the Chinese system since the founding of the PRC and one could argue before that is this incredible capacity to innovate, adapt and lead the country forward with change.
And I think the way that China's doing this now through the rubric of a multipolar world, through the rubric of win-win solutions, This is ultimately going to succeed, and succeed not only for China, but for all the countries that have positive relations with China, and certainly those countries that continue to have good relations and send their representatives to meetings like CIIE.
With that, we're wrapping up this episode of Chat Lounge.
I've been speaking with Dr Zhou Mi, a senior research fellow with the Chinese Academy of International Trade and Economic Cooperation, Professor Joseph Gregory Mahoney, Professor of Politics and International Relations at East China Normal University, and Professor George Zougopoulos, Director of EU-China Programs and Senior Research Fellow at European Institute of Nice.
Thank you so much for joining us.
Bye for now.
