Hi, I'm Jamie Lynn Sigler, and I feel giddy about being Conan O'Brien's friend.
I like that.
That's very nice.
Some people can get very mean, and I know that you're not going to do that, Christina.
I know you're not.
Damn it.
I was going to say I feel really stupid being Conan O'Brien's friend.
I won't.
I will change mine for the nicer part of me.
No.
Hi, I'm Christine Applegate, and I feel awesome to be Conan O'Brien's friend.
Fall is here.
Hear the yell.
Back to school.
Ring the bell.
Brand new shoes, walkin' loose, climb the fence, books and pens.
I can tell that we are gonna be friends.
I can tell that we are going to be friends.
Hey, everybody.
It's Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend.
I'm Conan O'Brien.
Sona laughing really hard.
Matt, Matt Gorley joining us as well.
And we might as well just talk about this because I just said it.
Sona, should you recount what happened?
Oh, my.
I don't even know if I can like say give it justice, because I was talking about something and you were talking about something and you were talking.
We're talking about Ralph Fiennes and how much we love Ralph Fiennes and how good he is.
And then you were going on for a while about how great Ralph Fiennes is.
And I said, well, I'm not I'm not talking right now.
So this is boring.
Yeah.
Meaning there's words are happening, but they're not coming from me.
So this is boring.
Let's get started.
Yeah.
And you were laughing really hard because it might be the truest thing I've ever said.
I'm not talking.
So I, you know, like completely checked out because it's not coming out of your mouth.
You know what happened?
There was this moment where I noticed that the words weren't coming out of my skull.
So what good could they be right?
I mean, what could their value possibly be right?
I mean, it's unheard of that.
Anything i would say would have any.
Again it's happening.
Yeah, i'm like what is this?
I'm hearing, like it's like charlie brown characters hearing their parents.
You don't even have hear words coming out of my mouth, like when i'm talking, i'm just counting down.
It's like when do i get to go?
Oh my God.
I'm just not even going to speak.
You should.
Did you?
I just heard croaking over there.
Sounds like there's a toad.
I will say this.
Just a teaser for the segment in this episode.
We have some Ralph Fiennes-related content to cover.
Oh, good.
We'll get to that later in the episode.
Oh, good.
And that was... I didn't know that that was happening.
No, that's just a coincidence.
Yeah.
Let's get some Ralph Fiennes content.
You were talking about how he's still got it and he can...
He's still got it, and he can get it.
He can get it.
I don't know.
Is that a saying?
He can get it.
He can get it?
Yeah.
And he can.
He can get this.
He can get this.
You're married.
Yeah, I know.
I'm not going to fuck Ralph Fiennes.
I mean, it's not going to happen.
I shouldn't have said it, so I'm not going to make love to him.
Which would it be?
Make love to him.
If you said he's still got it and he can get it, then you're not talking about making love.
Oh, Ralph Fiennes.
Pretty come to yon window and let us embrace.
Do be gentle.
Do be gentle, Ray.
He would be.
If there was any chance of him coming on, I think I just killed it, right?
No, I don't think so.
Maybe the odds are better.
Yeah.
You just said he's got it and he can get it.
You just rang the dinner bell.
Yeah.
Ring-a-ding-ding.
And Ray fights for what it's worth.
Same here, buddy.
That killed it.
You can get it.
That killed it.
No, no, that killed it.
You don't know.
Yeah, you'd be gentle, i would be gentle.
Um, i uh, he's a terrific actor.
He's great in everything he's ever done and i was just remarking that it's hilarious that he always i mean, it's not hilarious, but when i hosted the oscars recently, he was in the audience and it was like his you know, fifth time being nominated and he, he's clearly the the best actor in the room.
Yeah, he's an amazing actor and they he'll probably never get an academy award.
I shouldn't say that i hope he does, but i hope It's just.
These amazing actors come over from the UK and they're insanely incredible.
And, you know, they don't win.
They're all like, well, you know, still I enjoyed my visit.
Ta-ta.
It's sewn around.
It's sewn around, I'm told.
She thinks I have it and I could still get it.
I think it's because they're not, you know, they don't do enough.
Like he needs to like hook up with like, you know, Selena Gomez.
What?
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's like something needs to happen.
Selena Gomez is with Benny Blanco.
I know.
I can't believe you know that.
I'm sorry.
I'm bringing this back again.
You really are.
You just want to talk about Benny Blanco any chance you can get.
I.
The other day I was driving around and we brought this up on the podcast, but I just want to repeat it.
The most modern sentence that I can think of to say is Benny Blanco's just slid into my DMs, because I don't know what that means.
Any of it.
Any of it.
I don't know what any of it is, but I've memorized it in case I'm ever at a party.
Oh.
And someone's questioning, hey, man, you seem kind of old.
Maybe you should move on.
I'm going to say, yeah, well, Benny Blanco just slid into my DMs.
And then that person says, really?
I'm Benny Blanco.
Yeah.
And I'll say, well, I'm here in person.
And if you've got something to say to me, say it face to face.
Let's say it face to face, Benny B. If that's even your real name.
Okay.
What?
What?
Say it.
I love that you're talking about Benny Blanco sliding into your DMs while you're talking to Benny Blanco.
That just made me laugh.
Yeah, and also I love that it's proof at my age that I'm young.
Yeah.
I believe you've still got, is your Hailey Beaver smoothie over there?
Nope, it's not.
I threw it out.
I was done with it.
I love that I'm trying to.
I love anything where someone's like, hey man, you shouldn't be hanging out at this party.
You're too old.
And that I think that me shouting at that moment, Benny Blanco just slid into my DMs.
Everyone would be like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
He's young.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Guys, he's cool.
He's cool.
Let's disregard his rotting face.
Someone would be rude enough to just be like, hey, old guy, why are you at this party?
You know?
Let's try this out, okay?
Okay, go ahead.
Hey, what's up, granddad?
How'd you get in here?
What do you mean, how did I get in here?
I'm a youngster.
Benny Blanco just slid into my DMs.
Youngster.
What?
What are you talking about?
Do you even know what a DM is?
It's the Demilitarized Zone that separates South Korea from North Korea.
Hey, this guy's cool.
He can stay.
It was established by the United Nations at the end of the Korean conflict.
Oh, right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I've actually been there.
I visited the Demilitarized Zone.
And Benny Blanco is one of the great architects of the late 19th century.
Hey, guys, gather around.
I'm hearing some crazy whack history stories.
This guy's off the hook.
Yeah.
All the women are undressing.
Yes.
Yeah.
That's right.
I have the riz.
Oh, so you really got it.
Okay.
I'm going to write the rap.
You just shouldn't go to those parties.
If someone invites you, just don't go.
You're busy.
I wouldn't be at those parties.
They would find me peering in a window and they would call the police.
I mean.
Who knows?
You could be.
You could go to a party where Benny Blanco and Selena are.
I would know Selena.
I would not know Benny Blanco.
Yeah.
And I have nothing against Benny Blanco.
He's, you know, I think Selena Gomez is cool.
I love her.
And I'm all for this Benny Blanco gentleman.
I just came up with that sentence when I was driving my car.
Benny Blanco just slid into my DMs and I said that's going to get me out of a sticky situation someday or get me into one.
I don't know.
All right, let's get into it.
Enough of my bibble and babble.
I think this has been enough.
Tom Foolery and Skullduggery.
And Tom Thuggery my guest today, and that's plural guests today hosts the podcast Messy, which releases new episodes every Tuesday, wherever you get your podcasts.
I'm very excited they're here today.
Christina Applegate and Jamie Lynn Sigler, welcome.
Welcome.
Cone bone.
Cone bone.
Cone bone.
Ever stuck?
No, it did.
My wife calls me cone bone.
No, because Tom Hanks came around and did coo coo.
Oh, yeah.
And then that became your thing.
I was trying to make cone bone happen.
I'm kind of glad Coco won, frankly.
Okay.
I was going to start by, first of all, thanking both of you for being here.
And I have very distinct memories of both of you.
I'm at that age now where I get very sentimental and I look back over I don't know just things that I've done in the past, people I've met,
Christina, I remember very clearly you being such a wonderful friend to me on the show.
You came on the show so many times and you were always so funny and great and miraculous.
And I think I think you you might hold some record for coming on the show.
I might.
You might.
You might.
It was like my favorite thing.
Anytime.
I got a call saying hey, you know, even like you sometimes would have like a guest, like fall out or something.
They'd be like, will you come in?
I'm like, absolutely.
I would love nothing more.
I really like you were my favorite interviewer ever.
I had so much fun there.
That's sweet of you.
And it helped that you lived in an apartment right above our studio in Rockefeller Center.
We called it an apartment.
I was outside the bathroom.
Actually, it was a cleaning closet.
It was a cleaning closet.
There was a cot.
Let's be real, Conan.
I can't believe Christina Applegate lives in this shitty cleaning room.
And you guys charged me rent.
Yeah.
No.
It wasn't a lot of rent.
But I, just I wanted to start by thanking you from the bottom of my heart for just always being Just, this light.
Always such a great guest.
Always so fantastic.
And I have such a very clear memory, Jimmy Lin.
I remembered when The Sopranos first came out and had been on for one season.
It was the new thing.
Everyone was talking about it.
And it's nominated for all these Emmys.
We're nominated, too.
We're in New York.
I go, I get on my American Airlines flight and I sit in this American Airlines flight.
And then the person sits down next to me and it's James Gandolfini, who I'd never met.
And we talked the whole way.
And he was just talking about like, yeah, I don't know what this is.
He had such a like, what is this?
We're going to an award show.
And I went, yeah, you're on the biggest show on television, Jim, and you're the star of it.
Anyway, he talked about act.
We just had a lovely time.
Yeah.
And that's so cool.
And my memory is they put me up at this hotel I think it was the Four Seasons Hotel and I walk out at one point and you're standing there with your co-star, Robert Eiler, and you're just like both standing there and you're kids.
I mean, how old would you have been?
17.
17.
Yeah, you're just.
You're kids and you were standing there right outside where the cars pick people up and you just both looked like you had been beamed to Mars, like you're here at the Emmys.
And I chatted with you guys for a second and remembered having this weird look at oh, this crazy ride is just starting for you.
Yeah.
And I'm getting a sneak peek.
And I remembered you just seeming like, I think she's going to be good.
She seems like such a grounded, nice kid.
I think you're going to be okay.
That's so nice to say.
Well, I can tell you like meeting you was like that.
I probably look like I had just been beamed to Mars because that's how we felt seeing you.
That's how we always felt like seeing people that we admired.
And like Christina and actually, and I have talked about that you are our favorite show.
Oh, that's nice.
Because you just, you set us up to-
When we're talking to you, when we're talking to Jimmy Kimmel, that's a whole other conversation.
Yeah, we were lying to Jimmy.
But I have a distinct memory because my brothers and I bonded over your show.
Right.
Like the bits in your show, we would talk about it all the time.
And the first time I did your show, I was able to get my brother, my oldest brother Adam, in the front row there.
And that was, like it's one of those like I made it moments that you're able to share with the people that were there with you.
So that was one of those for me.
It's so funny i have i don't know if it's the irish in me or whatever but i get very nostalgic for all of us floating along on this journey and then i see these people along the way, and so to get to check in with both of you uh, is very nice.
I mean yes, this is a podcast and we're doing this and there's going to be an ad or something, but I don't fucking care about that.
I feel like I'm talking to you guys.
I'm checking in.
Both of you have been through so much and you're doing a beautiful thing, which is you're sharing it.
You're talking about it very frankly.
You have your own podcast Messy, and it's all about MS, which you're both dealing with, and everything that happens.
And I know that you're helping a lot of people.
But the strange thing I've found about doing a podcast and I'm not struggling, I'm struggling with just inherent craziness, but not MS but what I have found is that it's healing for me to talk to people and um i'm it's, i'm imagine there's a component of doing this podcast where both of you are maybe doing some healing for yourselves about having this problem.
That you're being able to talk about it openly in this forum is probably helpful to you.
Well, absolutely 100.
I mean, that's how this all came about was when I came out with my diagnosis in 2021.
Our friend Lance said you got to talk to Jamie because I'm sure you feel like you're on an island and you don't understand what's happening.
And that's the person to talk to.
And I had met Jamie a few times over the years.
And it was like we got on the phone and we were on the phone for hours.
And I felt like so less alone.
Yeah.
Sorry, I get teary when I talk about my dreams, but it healed me in that moment.
And that's how this happened was.
It was like we're talking about so much information and so much stuff that so many people newly diagnosed or even people who have been diagnosed for years might not know about or want to say the things that we say, like the brutal honesty about how painful it can be, how lonely it can feel, how awful it is.
And then, you know, that's only coming from my mouth because I'm negative Nellie.
And then Jamie will be like, but let's breathe, you know, and I love you, Jamie.
She gets pissed off about it, too.
Here's the interesting thing is it's it's it's not that one way to go is wrong and one is right.
They're both.
No, no, no.
That's I was totally kidding.
You know, it's like we we have helped each other, in the sense that I I get to see some a different side to all of this because of her.
And she gets to be honest about how she feels sometimes about in ways that you didn't.
Right.
I don't want to speak for you.
Yeah.
But yeah, because I was noticing that Jamie Lynn, you got diagnosed much earlier than even I I knew.
I was familiar with your diagnosis, but then I was shocked to find out that you got your diagnosis when you were on The Sopranos.
You were also working on Broadway at the time.
And I just assumed that this came, you know, 10 years later because you didn't talk about it.
You were afraid to talk about it because you thought you thought you could get fired.
Is that right?
Yeah, I think there was a lot of reasons.
I think the initial drive to keep it a secret and protect me was the fear of being fired, the fear of not being hireable, the fear of what people would think about this and me with this.
I also think it allowed me to live in a state of denial for some time, because if I didn't talk about it with anybody, then maybe it wasn't real.
But then you know, over the years, as the disease started to manifest into what it would be for me physically and I started to have to make up excuses and lies, it was really difficult.
And, as much as I could like regret that choice, I think it's really informed a lot about me and my life and you know now what's so beautiful like with messy and having christina.
And what i've learned about myself through this process is you know, when you find community and when you, when you talk to somebody else, you can almost witness yourself a little bit and And you can kind of take a step back and really acknowledge what you're going through and acknowledge that it's hard and that it sucks and that it can be unfair and all of those things.
But also really see the catalyst of it being the catalyst for a lot of growth and self-reflection.
And, you know, I've lived with the disease for almost 24 years now.
I was diagnosed when I was 20.
And so I'm...
I'm finding my way through and finding sort of the purpose from this pain.
And I feel like, you know, that's all you can do with situations like this.
And messy is really what's propelled me into that way of thinking now.
I think there's an interesting thing that we live in this, as you know, this weird culture with probably misaligned priorities, where you know people.
If you're a quote celebrity, people expect that you shouldn't have anything to complain about and that you're allowed to have problems.
But sometimes I think you're expected to have problems that are self-destructive, problems like addiction, or you blew all your money.
You did stupid things.
But I think there's almost like a sense that well, wait a minute, you can get sick, you can get this disease.
But you were on television.
I know that sounds like I'm saying something that would be painfully obviously true, but I think there is a little bit of a hiccup where you're both beautiful, talented actresses that people know from iconic work.
You have a, you got it.
You got sick.
What do you mean?
You got sick?
What did you do?
No, I didn't do anything, I just it just happened.
And it happens to a lot of people.
Is that?
Does that feel that there's a weird way in which it's not fitting the narrative of being a successful, you know, celebrity?
Well, I think one of the things that I've come across, you know, I mean and I don't really leave the house anymore
And I mean, if people saw what my life was like on the daily, they wouldn't.
They wouldn't be able to do it, because I can sometimes not do it.
It's really, really hard.
But I think that the first thing that I hear from people is how did you get it?
Yeah.
Meaning I must have done something wrong.
Yeah.
In my life to have this disease.
I did it to myself.
It's like I had breast cancer as well.
So, oh, you must have done something, you know?
And that stigma is, you know, I'm used to it now, but it was for a while like it was so hard to swallow because
Why the F would you think that I would do something to have this?
Yes.
Because this is the worst thing I've ever had in my life.
It's the worst thing I've ever gone through.
So I'm going to start crying.
Cry all you want and then I'm going to start crying.
I'm just having a pissy day today.
I'm having a bad MSC day.
Oh, I'm sorry.
Well no, but cry.
And then I'm going to cry and I'm going to make my assistant David tear, and you'll cry.
I make him cry all the time.
Every day.
Every hour.
And very verbally abusive.
This is what this podcast does to people.
But mine is just like me being really verbally abusive.
Yeah, if he doesn't make at least five people cry a day.
Yeah, I feel like I haven't done my job.
Yeah.
I'll tell you I mean obviously, Christina where it comes from is.
It's terrifying to people that shit happens.
And so people need to work backwards and say, okay, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute.
Did you eat a lot of food with zinc in it?
You know, no, I didn't.
Oh, did you take like a lot of escalators?
Some people can get MS.
No, no, no, that's stupid.
That was online.
No, whatever.
I'm making shit up clearly, but-
You'd be surprised at the cures that I get told about.
Like, I have this holy water, and I know it will cure your MS.
I'm like, really?
That's amazing.
Because there's millions of us across the globe who still have it.
Right, right.
And have probably, you know, done this with the holy water.
I mean, come on.
Yeah.
Well, I think that that's... But that's the fear.
Part of the gift, of the position I think that we have.
That it's, you know, taken me a long time to accept.
I think, you know, acceptance is hard for anyone no matter what you're dealing with.
I think it's like a huge challenge in your life to accept that a situation is what it is.
But I... But...
What I'm looking now as an opportunity is what I thought would sort of bring me out of this business.
And I and even when I was out about having MS and working, and it was always people very helpful like oh, we'll just walk around it or we'll get you a walking double when the person walks away, you know.
So you look able bodied and normal.
Right.
Now it's at this point where I'm like, no, if you want to cast me in this, this is the body I'm in.
Because my life doesn't revolve around MS.
If anything, it could enrich a story.
And I think that we don't see enough people like us on camera.
We don't see enough people that have disabilities that are not defined by their disability within a story a lot of the time.
And so you know, I think that we do have a position and a power now to really try and change the perception around that celebrities can get sick, but that you can also keep like doing what you love and keep living your life, you know.
I think that it's...
It's very scary for people.
And yeah, you can feel like, you know, people are superhuman when they're a celebrity.
But no, we're just human beings that are doing what we love.
It just happens to be in front of a lot of people.
Right, right.
And now we can use that power for something else.
It's weird.
It's an occupational hazard.
I always think it's an occupation like working in a shoe store or anything else.
It just has this other side to it, which is people recognize you.
They recognize you from working in a shoe store.
That's how Jim Gandolfini felt.
I'm sure he told you that on that plane.
Yeah, I mean, he was... He's like, why don't you want my plumber's autograph?
Like, it just didn't make sense to him why he had to have that piece of this, you know?
Right, right.
I can completely understand that.
Um...
One question that came to me is and this is for both of you, and maybe I'll start with you, Christine is when did you what's the first symptom or when did you start to think something feels off?
Is it subtle or does it hit you like a ton of bricks?
It was January 2021.
My mom had just been diagnosed with cancer for the third time.
And there was some other stuff going on in my life.
And it was a really stressful, traumatic time.
And my toes started to feel numb.
Just my toes.
You know, like a little bit.
I was still hiking.
I was still playing tennis.
I was still doing all the things I could do.
But my toes weren't feeling right.
And eventually, over those months it grew from my toes to my ankles to from my knees.
Down is a whole other ballgame.
And I was losing balance, but the pain was extraordinary.
And when I say numb, it's numb, but it hurts.
So it was like these very subtle things that happened.
And finally someone was like well, it was actually Selma Blair said can you please go to the neurologist?
And I was like, no, there's no way that the both of us from the same movie have MS.
I was like, you crazy.
And it was like that was the end of it for you know, and by then I had gotten so bad and I was in the middle of shooting dead to me.
So we had to really stop for a minute and figure out how to do this.
But what's interesting is I look back over time and probably for like six years I was having weird things happening.
Like fluorescent lights would bother me and make me dizzy.
And being up on a platform, I would get afraid of the height.
I was never afraid of heights.
I'd be playing tennis and like my right leg would buckle, and I'd be like ooh, I must be dehydrated or it's too hot out here.
I mean, they were like the tiniest little things that you would completely ignore otherwise, because there's probably an answer for all of them.
But the numbness in my toes and as it started to grow up, was very much announced in my fingers and it just – it starts to – you know, over time it gets worse, you know, but it's –.
That's that's how it happened.
And when and when you say, like you've referenced, I think twice now that you're having a really bad day.
What does that mean?
You're having a really bad MS day.
How does that manifest itself?
Is it is it in the physical?
Is it dealing with it?
Is it it's the physical and that affects you also emotionally, too, I imagine.
Well, yeah.
I mean, to go to the bathroom, it's like walking on needles and hot lava.
So I haven't really been able to get out of my bed today.
So I'm having just a bad symptomatic day.
And that can be from anything.
And I always get scared that this is now my new normal and I get afraid that this is the new normal.
And then I'll have a day where...
I'm never good.
I'm just less shitty.
So those less shitty days, I'm like, okay, so that was just a symptomatic day.
It was like either I didn't sleep enough or I didn't eat enough or I'm stressed out.
A lot of times stress or anything like that really affects it, can make it much worse.
But there isn't a day where I'm like skipping down, skipped Maloo down the street.
Although I try sometimes, right?
Jamie, I'll send you videos.
I'm like, I'm trying to skip.
You will.
I'm skipping today.
Yeah, exactly.
And then like the next, then 10 minutes later, I'm like, I can't move a thing.
I can't move.
Or else she doesn't have MS.
There's TMZ footage of her skipping down the lane.
She's making it up.
This is bullshit.
Damn, I'm a good actress if I'm making this one up.
Applegate is so full of shit.
Always was.
I would much probably get an Oscar for having Tourette's than I would for like, and I'm not making fun of Tourette's because I love Balin out loud.
I don't know if you guys have seen it, but she's real beautiful and I want to be her best friend.
But yeah, for the cussing.
But also I was, I've noticed that you've always had, and I love that you get to do it on Dead to Me.
You get to say some of the meanest things on Dead to Me.
So much fun.
And you do it where it's like yes, you're a really good actress, but I can also tell that you're accessing some part of you that wants to tell somebody he's a fuckstick.
Yes.
I don't know how Liz Feldman knew that I existed on the planet.
Like, she wrote it.
It was already there.
And then she was like, oh, my God, this is you.
And I'm like, sadly, yes.
How did you know I had a filthy mouth and a lot of rage?
The best the best acting job I've ever done is being Christina Applegate out in the public.
That is my greatest.
That's your Oscar.
Funny.
Yeah.
Everything's good.
Yeah.
And then I'm home and I'm like, fuck that shit.
That's what podcasts are for.
That's right.
And Jamie Lynn, when did you know that what happened?
How was it for you?
Is it the same?
Does it start with like tingling in the toes or?
Yeah, that was actually pretty similar for me.
When I was 19, I had something similar, like weird numbness in my toes.
And then it was rising over a couple of days.
And it was actually right before we were starting the third season.
And I ended up in the emergency room and then the ICU for 14 days.
Nobody could figure out what I had.
They had ruled out MS at the time because there was no findings on MRIs or whatever.
And I got diagnosed with Lyme's disease, actually, initially.
And they had had me in a bunch of steroids and antibiotics.
And in hindsight, I think the steroids is what picked me up out of it.
But a year and a half after that started to get that numbness again and went to the.
I was in the middle of the fourth season and I started to feel the numbness.
I thought I was just going to kind of ask for more antibiotics and they redid testing and diagnosed me with MS.
So it was shocking and not at all what I was expecting to hear.
And to hear it I mean at that age you've got to just be I don't know felt like you got hit by a meteor, like you're standing in a cornfield and a meteor hit you.
Like it's, it doesn't make any... Yeah, it's weird.
I can like...
I can remember sitting in the hospital room and my parents were there and I had two friends too, and the doctor was talking.
After he said it it became kind of like in a movie, where all of the talking just starts sounding muffled and the room kind of gets dizzy.
And I just kind of blocked it out.
We went home.
I spoke to my family about it.
I went to a doctor's appointment for... like a checkup for the show.
Like you have to get like a sign off that you're healthy.
And I told him and he told me I wouldn't, I wouldn't repeat that again.
And so that's what I did.
I just kept it quiet.
I didn't know that part.
Yeah.
I mean, he was trying to protect me, and I understood, you know.
But a hard one to hold in though, babe.
Especially when you are the best at teaching me to advocate for myself and to have boundaries on set and to say hey, this is what I need.
You gave me that power.
And for you to have to go every day and take that inside.
Pretend this isn't even happening.
No, I can't even.
And feel like you can't talk about it.
It makes me want to, mm, sad.
Well, it's interesting because we have all these fears.
There's a terror.
It's not just in our culture.
It's in many cultures.
But particularly we have a terror of people who maybe we've idolized or put up on a pedestal in any way being sick.
The same way we do, there's this whole attitude about people getting older.
And that's something where people are constantly feeling that they need to scrub how old they are or do things or go through ridiculous procedures to make sure that nobody thinks that they're the age they are.
It's another kind of, let's just pretend that that this doesn't happen to people.
And I've taken the very bold move of having no work done.
And I think... So brave.
So brave.
You're so brave.
Thank you.
You're so brave.
Well, I think of the three of us, I'm the brave one.
You are.
And in a way... You're the hero.
You're the hero, Conan.
Maybe the one who's been through the most.
I mean, maybe I'm going out on a limb here and I'm told I don't have the best sense of the room.
Yeah.
But I'm just letting it go as a 40 as a 44 year old man.
I'm just letting it happen.
No one is fact checking this.
No, there's no Internet.
Never was and never will be.
So how did you you guys started talking together?
And at one point, because it's such, you know, there's a lot of new technology and new kind of types of broadcasting and reaching out to people that can feel invasive and lame.
But I do think that podcasting is particularly well suited to what the two of you were talking about, because it's so intimate and people can really hear what both of you are going through, for what you're doing and for the message that you're trying to get out.
And not even that it's a message.
It's conversations that both of you are having that feel very confessional and that feel like there's no topic.
You're not working through.
Okay, we're going to get to this.
Then we're going to get to this, then we're going to get to this.
It very much feels like you two are hanging out and there are good days and bad days.
Yeah, I was going to say, well, we never really have a plan.
I mean, obviously, when we have a guest, most of the time, there's someone that we know quite well.
So that's easy to just talk with them.
We don't have a list of questions, really.
I mean, if we start to go off the rails, our producer will text, like, She starts texting us.
She starts texting and going like, bring it back to something, to like a subject.
But I was going to say that with the podcast it wasn't like Jamie and I were like how can we go around talking about this?
I mean I was actually getting my infusion for my MS and Jenna Fisher from The Office, who's a good friend of mine, she came to hang with me for the six hours that it takes.
And she knows my humor and the way I talk.
She's like, you've got to do a podcast, man.
And then it was like after that, Jamie and I started talking.
I was like, oh, my God, this is like our lives.
And I feel so much better every time I'm talking.
Sorry about that.
That's my phone telling me to put my feet in the hot bath with Epsom salts.
Your phone tells you to do that?
It does.
It knows that I'm in pain and I need to do it.
I have an alarm.
I have an alarm for 1.30.
This is going to lead into an ad for Nokia.
What is your phone telling you to do?
My phone tells me to stop going on that site.
It's creepy.
What's creepy about it?
It really came from our conversations.
We always wanted to be honest and raw and real and not have a plan, because sometimes the best plan is to have no plan.
And then other times I'm just, I'm told to be quiet and to stop talking so much by our producer.
Yep.
Not by me.
Not by you.
But also, too, you know, MS looks different for everybody.
It affects everybody differently, whether it's day to day or just, you know, body to body.
And I think it's about you know giving yourself the grace and the space to express what you need to feel in the ups and downs of it.
And also to, you know... not a lot of people know a lot about MS is to also educate.
But in general, I think, and we have learned, that the more specific you get with your vulnerability, the more universal it becomes for other people.
So you know we get to hear from a lot of other people that listen to us, that don't just have MS, that you know hear what we're going through and hear what we're We're trying to push through and accept and all those things through their own filter and how they sort of apply it to their lives.
And so you know, over the past year it's really been an exercise in Christina and I getting to know each other and sharing a lot about our lives.
And I feel like now it's not fully transitioned, but we've opened ourselves up now to having a lot of people really
Try to help us help us individually and where we're at.
And you know it's we're, we're still here and we we have children and dreams, and lives, and friends and people that we care about.
And we're trying to figure out how to, you know, make it the best we can.
It's also and that's important to point out it's not.
I think one of the reasons it's such a great idea is that it's not.
Hey, if you've got MS, you should check out Messy.
That's not at all what it's about.
Sure, if you do, then yes, but it really is about people struggling and actually people that you know, people that I mean for both of you.
There are a lot of people that grew up watching you Um, and have an emotional connection with you.
And that's something that's very powerful, that gives you this gift of oh, they know you, they know you and you are part of their lives.
You're part of a part of their life that they're only going to be that old once.
And you were a big part of their life then.
And so now they're getting the gift of perspective of, um, whatever that means.
Everyone has stuff in their life, but I'm constantly, you know, we just had these fires out here in LA and I'm, you know, so I'm living in a hotel and people will say to me, oh, I'm so sorry.
And I cut them off and I'm like, I'm living in a hotel.
I know a lot of people who lost their homes.
Like I, so I don't have.
I have been inconvenienced um, but uh, it's stupid.
I i feel stupid when anyone says anything to me because i know i, many people who work here uh several, two people that work here lost their homes and, and a lot of my writer friends on the simpsons lost their homes, and a lot of people in and around my neighborhood lost their home and so uh, i did not.
I'm in a hotel, and so my complaint is they don't make the smoothie quite the way I like it.
It's not the way I would do it if I was at home.
What's wrong with the world?
Why does God hate me?
God!
Why have you... You need to come on Messy and talk about it.
Yes.
Well, first of all, before we go any further, Ladies I'm here to talk about, There's this guy at this high-end hotel.
Beverly Hills.
But no, I think that perspective is not something you get and then you have.
Like someone gives you a gold pocket watch and you have it in your pocket the rest of your life.
I always think it's like stomach crunches or any kind of You just, you know, unfortunately you've got to keep doing it, or stretching, or you know any of the rehab or anything of the exercises that you need to do or self-care you need to do.
You have to keep at it.
I think that's way about perspective.
We just have to keep at it because yes, I am this, but these other people are going through that.
And it's always the yin and the yang.
It's always going to be that.
And so I think the fact that the two of you are sharing this, and you know Christina, when you were saying earlier oh, I'm sorry, I'm getting weepy, I'm having a bad day
The whole point is to tell us that and to let it happen.
Yeah.
I mean, we've we've covered so many topics, too.
I mean, it's not like if we just sat there and talked about MS all day, we'd be like we're probably not.
I'd just be crying the whole time.
We've had episodes about eating disorders and and bitches, you know, like, well, wait a minute.
Let's talk about this for a second.
I mean, now you've got my I mean, I go for it, Christina.
I was really liking this, but now it's another level.
She knows that I get pissed off when I lay back when we're recording and I look like this.
My fire, my anger inside of myself talking about bitches.
Just people who are just bitches.
Bitches is all genders, right?
It's everybody.
Of course.
It includes me is what you're saying.
You're my biggest bitch ever.
I knew I'd make it.
You are my favorite bitch.
I made it to the top.
I haven't even told Jamie, because Jamie and I are probably going to record next week, because you know, whatever.
And I have so much to tell you about some bitches.
I can't wait.
Mama got vicious in the text messages.
Do you drop names?
You don't drop names.
I don't.
No, no, no.
I think we should.
I mean, why not?
Well, we you know what we have had, though, is a lot of like past co-stars like we had Ed O'Neill.
We had Edie Falco.
And it was really interesting and wonderful to like have these conversations with people that knew us when we were kids, in our formative years, and really get their perspective of us, and for also to have a conversation with Edie, where she forever felt like a mother figure to me because of the way we met.
But now to have a conversation as two women and peers in a way.
It's been really beautiful to be able to have these deep, personal conversations on the podcast with people that are important to us, that also people like relate to us, but to get to see a different side of it.
Yes.
It's interesting to me too, you know from my lens of.
You know Christina, those times that you would come on, or Jamie Lynn, the times you would come on it's, I would see you in this very I love that format, but it was, but it.
Hey, what's going on?
And it's this... I could list that you do that all day.
I know.
I know, me too.
I know, I know.
But I swear to God it was 30 years of my life and it's in my head where I'll be brushing my teeth and I'll be like
All right, we're back.
I'm using Crest toothpaste because it gets it white, you know.
But I guess it's still a conversation and I was still getting to know you and you are these, you know, much younger than me.
And now I'm checking in on you in this very different way.
And it's nice.
It feels really nice to speak to both of you and talk.
I'm sorry that you got both of you got hit with this sack of shit, because that's what it is, for no reason.
I'm really sorry about that.
And it's I pooped myself yesterday.
So that goes and goes on brand with me, too.
I'm just saying.
I'm just saying.
But I'm saying it's very nice.
I'm grateful for this medium that allows us to talk this way and check in and people you know a lot of people can hear it and hear how you're doing and hear about your podcast, which and it's a, it's just a I'm very grateful that we get to do this, you know.
Me too.
Thank you.
I've been this my favorite moments honestly Conan, when I would come on there for like the 30th time or whatever, was when we'd go to commercial and you and I would just talk.
Yeah.
It was like, it was like the best thing ever.
The show was over, you know, the like pre-interview, we did our bits, I did my stories and you and I would just sit and talk.
During that two and two, Chuck Woolery.
Yeah.
And I remember in the commercial break, you know, trying to do that with Jamie Lynn.
And she said, this interview's over.
Yeah, usually.
That's so Jamie.
She said, this interview's over.
And then she said, my people and seven people came and took her away.
That's exactly what would happen.
That is not what happened.
I was actually going to say, I've just never felt very good at that side of this business.
It's just always felt like I don't know it would bring out insecurities and things in me that weren't great.
However, doing your show and i mean this with every part of me there was never an ounce of nerves.
You may be the first time because it was because i was such a fan, but it was just.
You always brought ease and and enjoyment.
I would leave on a high and so happy like i just had the best you know, 20 minutes of my life.
So, thank you, you would get 20 minutes.
I get like 8 to 12.
I was counting commercial rates.
Christina would get like five at the most.
That's why she kept coming back.
I knew if I was cruel to you, Christina, you'd keep coming back, and you did.
Of course, yes.
Well, I did.
That's why I got that cleaning closet.
But I was going to say what was so awesome is that you, you listened, yeah.
Yeah, we sometimes wouldn't even get to the questions man yeah, because you, you were like one of the only ones who listened, who didn't have like a vacant look on their face waiting for the next, like get to the part that you're supposed to say and let's get to the next question.
You would listen and so you and i would.
Just, it did feel like real and loose and it wasn't a show, it.
I love you.
You know that.
You know that I've always absolutely adored you.
Well, I am.
I mean, I was coming in today, I knew I'd be talking to both of you and I was thinking I really want to check in with them because I care about these people and I'm invested in them, because I have this avuncular, like you know.
Well, I knew them when they were these young ladies that used to come by and I would make a cookie for them and talk to them.
And, you know, and I want to see how they're doing.
And I I'm so again, I'd do anything in the world if I could change this reality for both of you, uh and i can't, but anything i can do to raise awareness, to do anything, i mean uh my, my father uh, was a scientist who devoted his life to trying to find ways to make people better, and my hope is that uh, science will find ways um, and anything we can do i mean anything i can do to help both of you uh, and i'd also like to come on your podcast.
We would love it.
Seriously?
Well, I didn't think Conan was going to make me cry today.
But here's the thing.
I want to talk about my fee.
Oh, it's one hundred thousand dollars and it's got to be in its cash in a suitcase.
All right.
Fucking more than I've even made doing the podcast.
Well, listen, sister.
OK, I'm just time for me to get tough with you, too.
All right.
OK, you're not I'm not going to soften up because of this whole MS thing.
I get top dollar.
You're the next bitch they're going to talk about?
Yeah.
This bitch wants 100000 to come on the No.
David is right here and David's the one that does the schedule.
He's in charge of my life, but I would love to come on and talk to you on your podcast.
Oh, thank you.
And do...
You know, I consider us friends and I would like to help.
So let me know what I can do.
And I'm just saying that because once this is over, I'm not going to do anything.
You know that.
Of course.
But this is the image you need to put on.
It's been recorded.
This is what's called performative.
You know, this is me.
Is the paparazzi here?
And they get a picture of me going to the hospital to visit, you know, the people.
And then I go out the back and I shop for a Rolex.
There you go.
Real Hollywood secrets here.
I like it.
No, I really want to come do yours.
And really, I really want to get into the bitches thing.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, maybe we should save the bitch conversation for when Conan comes on.
That's so bad.
You guys, it's so bad.
It's almost like this particular thing that happened this week is like I don't even know if I can even talk about it.
Well, I've got my own bitches to talk about, two of whom are in this room.
Okay, you can talk about your bitches.
I'm looking at one of them right now, Eduardo.
Eduardo hey, that's not a stray.
That is, you know what you did and you're gonna pay for it.
Fuck with my microphone.
I love you both and I haven't even said that.
I never said that to my parents, so I should say it to you.
That's not true?
I'm kidding.
Wait a minute.
Hold on checking, nope 1977.
The Summer Elvis died, I told them.
I'm in your corner and let me know what I can do and I will see you on your podcast.
We'll talk about bitches.
Yes, you will.
And I'm thinking about you both and sending you whatever crazy Irish Catholic energy is within me, half of which is malevolent, I'm sure.
Yeah.
Fake it.
I'll take it.
You know what you can send me?
Because I ask all my very, very, very wealthy friends.
Yep.
Six million dollars.
Okay.
Just like a, not a loan.
Jesus, I made that today.
I mean.
Okay.
Just six million.
Six million.
I know it sounds weird.
No, I just closed.
But I asked Ed O'Neill for six million.
I ask him every time I talk to him.
I just bought and closed an orphanage and I got six million.
Okay, there you go.
I have a lot of investments with defense contractors who make claymore mines.
Those are the ones that really.
So, yes, ladies, just have a Christina.
I hope your day gets better.
And it is really lovely to talk to both of you.
And weird thing to say, because I'm not your uncle, but I'm really proud of both of you.
I'm extremely proud of you.
Thank you.
I'm your comedy uncle, your weird comedy uncle.
Nothing better.
We're getting creepier.
Only kind of uncles we want.
Okay, yeah.
The weird comedy uncle with the red wig.
That's right.
Be well, and thank you so much for being here today and sharing with me.
I really appreciate it.
I love you.
Thank you for having us.
All right, bye.
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.
Okay, I have something very tangentially Oscars related which I don't think I've said on my count how great a job you did.
Oh, thank you very much.
Thank you.
I enjoyed myself thoroughly.
I had a really good time.
The Oscars are big in our family.
It's like the Super Bowl.
And my wife sat down with my daughter to do a little arts and crafts.
And they decided that they would try to predict what all of the famous people would be wearing at the Oscars.
Interesting.
Okay.
And so I just want to show you.
Because your daughter is quite young.
She's three and a half.
Three and a half.
And so is my wife.
Yeah.
All right.
And this is what my wife did for Cynthia Erivo and Ariana Grande.
Okay, I just want to show this.
Wait a minute.
That's pretty close.
They were wearing very architectural dresses.
Look at this.
That's insane.
And so now I'm living with a woman who is convinced she's psychic.
And I don't believe in that kind of stuff, but now I have to say, I don't know what's real anymore.
Wait a minute, wait a minute.
Yeah.
The fact that your wife did that prior to the Oscars and seeing what they were going to wear.
A few days before.
Okay, I'm going to say this.
That is eerie.
That is eerily close.
Unless, is she someone who pays attention to how they normally draw?
No, not at all.
She had no idea.
She just took a guess.
I think she was going kind of off their wicked characters a little bit.
But isn't this incredible?
Does it mean if I say she draws like a 10-year-old?
Yes.
Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It certainly is.
I thought those were pretty good.
You do?
Well, wait until you see how my daughter draws.
Okay.
Oh, I thought those were your daughters.
I mean, no offense to Amanda.
No, no, but also, you were up close because I got you some seats.
I hooked you up.
Yeah, you hooked me up.
And you could see Ariana Grande trying to sit in that dress.
Yes.
And she had to, it was not easy.
They had to, I think, sit on the edge of the seat.
She couldn't recline.
No, those are not sitting dresses.
No, these ain't sitting dresses.
Okay.
Okay.
Anyway, we'll stay on topic.
Well, that's it for that.
But this came up earlier about Ralph Fiennes.
This is my daughter's prediction of what Ralph Fiennes would be wearing.
Again, spot on.
She says that's his little hat.
Okay.
But then this is where it gets pretty interesting.
This is Zoe Saldana. oh okay okay and my favorite here adrian brody and she pointed out what all the pieces are here oh little bow yeah hair bum bum that's his butt and a toot coming out oh a fart he poopies in potty and he does go pee pee is it his pee pee or he's peeping i think he's You know, I'm not sure.
I'll have to get back to you on that.
Can I say I was backstage when all that was going down with Adrian Brody and all of that happened.
Yeah.
This is accurate.
We were hosing that place down.
He was pooping in the potty and he had to pee pee.
We all heard it the first time.
We're good.
We don't need your recital of the facts.
Oh, by the way, if you want to see these, just go to at Team Coco podcasts on Instagram.
So, um, I think that's a pretty, uh, that's pretty impressive.
This is crazy.
I think that's crazy that your wife was able to do that.
Look at that.
We should do this.
We should predict what people are going to wear and stuff.
I do it here around for certain guests.
Oh, that's right.
Oh, that's right.
We should talk about this.
Eduardo, please speak your truth.
I'm not involved.
There's kind of like an office pool that happens for certain guests.
Okay.
Uh, I'd say the AAA listers, where the office around here starts to guess and wonder what they're going to come in dressed like
To my recollection, it was Goldie Hawn, Jane Fonda, and Al Pacino.
That's right.
Yeah.
So there's guesses.
So we already kind of... Now, how close did you come?
I'm not good at this game.
Yeah.
But there's other people within the office that are...
So those aren't the only three AAA listeners.
No, no.
Those are the only ones we did.
Yeah.
But nobody got Goldie Hawn because she came in in like a body glove wetsuit or something like that.
Remember?
Is it a wetsuit?
No, it wasn't a wetsuit, but it was like a sport tank top or something.
Yeah, yeah.
It was very beachy.
Yeah.
Well, to be fair to her, she came right from deep diving for pearls without a tank.
So, I mean, she came right from that and brought us all fresh pearls.
Yeah.
Yeah, it was pretty... She was amazing, by the way, Goldie Hawn.
If you have not listened to her interview, check it out.
Because I loved talking to her.
Yeah.
She's incredible.
And her memory of...
Things that happened to her when she first moved to New York in the 60s.
And she didn't have a place to live yet.
And she talked about all of it as if it happened yesterday.
I know.
The imagery and everything was incredible.
I love her so much.
Anyway.
Yeah, we do that.
We talk about, I mean, Ruthie's the one who's kind of spearheading it.
And she goes around and makes a list of what people are going to dress up.
Do people ever guess what I'm going to be wearing when I come in?
No one ever talks about you.
That's weird.
You just never come up.
I guess it's because I'm so ubiquitous.
I think they forget that you do this podcast sometimes.
Also, I tend to wear the same thing a lot.
You do.
I have kind of a uniform.
You're like a Steve Jobs.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
In my ability to lead the world of tech.
No, no, no.
I meant like just like wearing the same stuff a lot.
Oh, I thought you meant the other way in which I... But this works.
Yeah.
Sometimes we guess what mood you come in.
Yes.
Oh.
That's true.
It means cartoonishly hyperactive versus what?
Scale of 1 through 10 maybe, like how...
How high out the knob will be turned up?
Yeah.
How bitty you might be.
Where are we today?
I think today is like a, you know, I find a tendency that when we haven't recorded in a while.
Yes.
There's like this freshness and there's like a layer.
Pent up bits.
Yeah.
But also like, also just friendlier.
That's true.
Like he's happy to see everyone.
Yeah.
I'm worried about next week because we have four sessions on the book.
And by Friday, he's just going to be beating us.
Well, I don't physically.
Yes, I do physically beat you.
I'm sorry.
And that's probably wrong.
I shouldn't admit to that on Mike.
But yes, it is true.
I was away from you guys.
I've been up in Seattle visiting my in-laws with my wife and love Seattle.
Shout out to Seattle and shout out to Pam and Jake Powell.
Seattle.
Seattle.
Powell's.
Powell's.
You're wearing your Seahawks.
Seattle Mariners.
Oh, that's the Mariners, yeah.
And anyway.
Yeah, Microsoft.
Microsoft.
It doesn't work the same way.
Boeing.
Boeing.
Needles.
Space or otherwise.
Amazon.
Oops.
Anyway.
Go wall.
Yeah.
Had a wonderful time with the Powells, as I always do.
And I really love Seattle.
But what happened after being away for like eight days is I do miss you guys.
And I do miss... um, this total, uh, assery that we engage in.
I don't know what else to call it.
That's accurate.
Foolishness.
Uh, so I come in and I'm doing, it's bits right away, but it's right away.
Then, when we do a bunch of shows in a row, towards the end I feel like uh, one of those, you know, jackpot machines, with just the tips and pulling on the handle again and again, and again and again, there's no coins left.
Um, And then I want everyone to fuck off!
There he is.
There he is.
All right.
We wrapping it up?
Yeah.
This was just a segment.
So there's no... I just looked down at my introducing...
I don't know how this podcast works.
No, you don't.
You want me to do it for five years.
You know what?
Can I talk about something that you don't know how it works that would help me in editing?
Is every time when you do the intro and you say, these are my guests, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And then you say their name is the last thing you say.
I really need a pause there because there's a musical break between that.
And I always have to find a strange edit.
Okay, that helps me.
Yeah.
That's constructive criticism.
That's right.
No, it's nothing you're doing wrong.
You didn't know, but I just didn't want to try to explain that to you.
It's been five years.
And you've never, ever, ever thought... to maybe just suggest to me?
You're that afraid of me?
And that's on me.
Okay.
Yeah.
Well, I wish I had a guest that I could introduce right now, because I'm going to tell you how I'm going to do it in the future.
Okay.
Do you want to just try it again with their names one more time?
Sure.
With Christina.
Even though it's the end of the episode.
And Jamie Lynn?
Sure.
My guest today hosts the podcast Messy, which releases new episodes every Tuesday.
Wherever you get your podcasts.
I'm very excited they're here today.
Christina Applegate and Jamie Lynn Sigler.
Perfect.
Welcome.
Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend with Conan O'Brien, Sonam Ovsessian, and Matt Gourley.
Produced by me, Matt Gourley.
Executive produced by Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross, and Nick Liao.
Theme song by The White Stripes.
Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino.
Take it away, Jimmy.
Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair.
And our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples.
Engineering and mixing by Eduardo Perez and Brendan Burns.
Additional production support by Mars Melnick.
Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Brit Kahn.
You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts and you might find your review read on a future episode.
Got a question for Conan?
Call the Team Coco hotline at And if you haven't already, please subscribe to.
Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.
