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你好,欢迎收听随行汉语。 Welcome to Takeaway Chinese.
I'm Nian Honglin with Steve Heatherly.
Hello, Steve.
Whatever.
Ooh, someone's in a mood today.
You know what?
No, I don't even think I'm going to do this show today.
Oh, what is happening to you?
Why? don't you love Takeaway Chinese?
Everybody loves Takeaway Chinese.
I do love Takeaway Chinese.
See?
That ends the... But my intro was a clever way to introduce our topic for today.
It is very clever.
And I was...
Trying to stop an argument by saying something that you cannot disagree with.
That's true, which is a good strategy.
Yes.
So today we're going to talk about argument because we realize that on Takeaway Chinese we are often very
Love and peace, happy family leisure time, entertainment enjoyable, which is a good thing, but not the 100 scenarios you're going to encounter in your life.
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, part of every language is learning about the unpleasant ways of in which you sometimes need to express yourselves.
Part?
I think a very attractive part of language learning is cursing words, which is something we're not going to teach.
We're not doing that, by the way.
No, no.
Yeah.
But it's true.
I mean you're going to get into situations inevitably in your Chinese life, where you will have disagreements with someone somewhere somehow.
And that might be a romantic partner.
It might be with...
Someone in the street, hopefully not.
A taxi driver, hopefully not.
But anyway, it does pop up from time to time.
And there are expressions that come along with that.
And we talk about the fact that Chinese is a high context language, which means there would be a lot of allusions, a lot of Chinese idioms and a lot of ways to you know.
Take a segue before you reveal your true color or your true argument in a argument kind of situation.
And yeah, I think the logic or the mentality or the common way to start an argument and to conclude a discussion is always interesting.
So here's my first question.
In the English language when someone says to you now, this might be your boss or your romantic partner.
But they say to you, can I have a word with you?
Now, in English, that is usually not a good situation.
Same in Chinese.
First, I want to know how do you say that in Chinese?
And I wonder, is it the same thing?
Is it the same kind of situation?
I want to have a word with you.
It's not necessarily a bad thing, depending on how you phrase it, to be honest.
For example, if you say this is very typical in Chinese that is, instead of saying I want to have a word with you, we would say do you have a minute?
Let's have a conversation.
That is neutral.
That is absolutely neutral.
I would say 你有空吗?
我们聊两句。 So 你有空吗?
你有空吗?
Yes, we talked about 空 being a blank.
It can be a blank on your schedule or a blank in your life that I can fill in, something like that.
Or it's simply free time.
空闲时间, it would be free time.
So 你有空吗? would be do you have some free time?
Since it's neutral, in English, I guess it's the equivalent of like, hey, you got a sec?
Exactly.
Like meaning second.
我们聊两句。 Okay, a little slower, please.
我们
我们聊两句。 Yes, literally it means 我们, we, 聊, talk, 两句, two sentences, literally.
Okay.
One more time, please.
Perfect.
But that's neutral.
That is neutral.
Is there anything in Chinese that would denote or show like I'm not happy and I want to talk to you?
On the contrary, the first thing I think about would be something that showcases.
It's definitely something casual or positive.
It's definitely not negative, and that is...
I am spending some of your time and buying some of your time.
I think it's worth two yuan, which means it's a short, short period of time.
And I'm having a short conversation and it's very playful and lightly, which is why it's definitely not something serious. it's almost like can i buy a moment of your time yes and the funny thing is it's not even necessarily always two yuan it can sometimes be 0.5 yuan okay okay you know less than 10 yuan to show that it's just you know casual and short okay and when it comes to something that's definitely bad i don't think language wise there is that option but you can tell always always tell from people's facial expression or the way they say it or the tone yeah not like the tones of Chinese language but just your voice tone yeah so that's that so in those kind of situations I don't think I mean the 你有空吗?
我们聊两句。 That is neutral.
And the 聊两块钱的, let's have a light conversation, that's pleasant.
So those are the relatively good ones.
For those ones, you don't really... anticipate yourself being in an argument.
But for other possibilities, there are different types of argument.
For example, in real life, we 争论.
So 争 carries the meaning of rivalry.
It has the connotation of rivalry, like fight against each other almost.
And 论 is to elaborate.
So you have your own interpretation of something and the other person, not necessarily because they don't like you, but because about this specific issue they have different understandings and you fight with each other in a verbal way so that you find out the best, or at least between you two, the best understanding of this issue.
Okay.
Well, let me, I have a list of things that I would like to know if that's okay with you.
Sure.
Okay.
And let's see if there is any sort of Connection between English and Chinese here, meaning like if the same words are used or if it comes out in a different way in Chinese.
So I'll just give you some expressions in English and we'll go one by one maybe through them and see how we go.
Okay.
How about you're in an argument, you're trying to say your point, and the other person cuts you off.
So in English, you'd say, stop interrupting me.
How do you say that in Chinese?
In Chinese, you say that, or you say, let me finish first.
So don't interrupt me would be, 不要打断我, literally, 不要.
不要.
That means don't 打断, cut off.
So the meaning of beat and is break.
So you hit me, so i broke.
You hit me with your words and you broke, or you broke my language flow or something like that.
So interrupt, 我 is me.
So don't interrupt me.
Don't break my sentence.
Let me finish.
不要打斷我 That's perfect.
So do people say this or do they not really say this?
They say this.
And also they would say 我能先说完吗?
Can I finish my thought first?
我能先说完吗?
说完 说完 Yes Oh, but the W sound and the V sound you said are interchangeable, right?
They are interchangeable even in this scenario.
Okay, so that's basically... Let me finish first.
Let me finish my thought.
Okay, so both of those are usable.
But to be honest...
In English, when you say, let me finish my thought, you're not mad.
But in Chinese, when you say, 我能先说吧吗?
Can I finish my thought first?
You're a bit angry.
Next one.
Your partner says something and you totally disagree.
So you say, in English...
Whatever.
You're being totally dismissive of what they are saying.
Well, so the thing is very important, too.
It's very important in Chinese, too.
Oh, is it really?
Not in that exact way, but the idea is to show that you don't give it away, you know, an attitude or anything and uh sometimes, especially girls.
Well no, not true.
Everyone says that, no matter if the girl or the boy, we would say oh, that's literally, literally whatever.
And the whatever thing can be used in different scenarios, like the english word whatever it's.
Sometimes, if you are asked to choose about what to eat for dinner and you say anything would work, so it carries the anything would work kind of whatever.
You don't necessarily mean badly in the sense that i don't care.
Yeah, same in english right, what do you want for dinner?
Whatever whatever, it's that kind of whatever, Though the one who's getting that as an answer might not be happy about it.
But that is another issue to discuss.
But here, if you say 随便吧, it's like, whatever, just I'm done arguing with you.
Nice.
Do you put the pfft in the front?
No, we put it's like, yeah, perfect.
That's good.
Nice.
Can you add attitude to it?
Can you say like, If you're not in a movie that is translated from another language.
Yeah, right.
If you're not a voice actor doing a voiceover.
No.
Okay.
How about this one?
That one was good.
This is a little, I don't know if this will translate or not.
In an argument.
Sometimes your partner will say like yeah, but you said like.
Or you feel like this.
You said this.
You say, whoa, I didn't say that.
But we say, don't put words in my mouth.
Do you have any good ones that are kind of, Modern day Chinese that young people use in an argument.
The funny thing is, when it comes to younger generation, you see that they are definitely getting more confrontational.
They're not shy about showing their color.
For my parents' generation, for example, when they are in an argument, they would always say, I agree, but as a starting point, 我同意, 你说的有道理, 但是, so 你说的有道理, you're making a lot of sense, but, here's my two cents, something like that.
Okay, so this is polite arguing.
Very polite.
Yeah, this is formal arguing.
Can I have that sentence?
你说的对。 你说的对。 So 说的 is like the things that you said are making sense, are correct.
So the are correct one is like really, really correct.
I definitely see where you're from.
Whereas the 你说的有德。
你说的有道理。 So 有道理 is like, definitely there are something in your words that are making sense.
I'm not agreeing with you completely.
Part of it I don't agree, this part.
Then you add the but.
What I'm trying to say here is that the 你说的对 is more polite than 你说的有道理。
It's like the first version is like, I completely get what you're saying, but here's my perspective.
The 你说的有道理 is kind of like saying, yeah, you make some sense, but not really.
But still, the concept is that they are relatively more polite, even when they're disagreeing.
And besides that, there is another part, that is, a lot of the times, the argument or the debate, whatever conversation they're having, at the end, they would say, 我们可以求同存异。
So 求同存异, 求 means to seek and 同 means to agree.
存 means to save or to keep.
E is disagree.
So it's not agree to disagree.
It's more like we can find our common ground while keep our own opinions towards something.
So let's agree to disagree in English is kind of like... We agree that we disagree.
But yeah, but...
In English, you're putting an end to the conversation.
Yes, but 求同存异 is more like.
I understand that there are things that we can let go, but we also found some common ground that we can agree on.
So yes, a lot of people would agree kind of translate 求同存异 as agree to disagree, but I think there's still difference.
But the concept is that Chinese people, I think this one is not only about different generations.
I think Chinese people in general would like to find some common ground, and So we can cooperate.
We can find the similarities, we can move on with whatever relationship we have.
But for the younger generation, they are more brave in showing their special colors, their opinion.
And when they are in the mood to argue, they have also different types of arguing accusations towards the other party.
Oh, fun.
Tell me.
So.
For example in real life or in business settings.
You don't say the other party has no argument at all.
You don't say that they're totally wrong.
Yeah. totally disagree.
You say that they are arguing for the sake of arguing.
You say that they have no ground at all.
They're just playing words with the language, just playing games with the words.
And that is called 抬杠.
So 抬 curse the meaning of bear something on your shoulder or just lift something up.
And 杠 is a huge, heavy stick, usually wood.
And I try to figure out how come this word would mean something that this person is only arguing or disagreeing with me.
And they make no sense.
They're just saying that something.
And it turns out that one possible origin of the word is that in the northeast side of the country, in the Dongbei Three Provinces, there has been this one entertainment form In the fairs in the countryside.
It's kind of a comedy show.
You would have a clown sitting on the huge stick and someone other people, players or other performers would carry it up.
And the entire mission of the clown is to randomly pick on people in the crowd and start a meaningless argument with them.
And that activity is called Taigan.
Later on, the word got transferred into these kind of Arguing.
So is this kind of like you're speaking nonsense?
A little.
It's like you have no logic.
You make no sense.
Your argument makes no sense.
你抬杠。 你抬杠。 你这就是在抬杠。 The conversation is not going anywhere.
It's not useful.
I'm talking to a wall.
Something like that.
Uh-huh.
But we do have I'm playing music to a cow.
对牛弹琴 Yes.
Tell me how to say that.
对牛弹琴 对牛弹琴 对牛弹琴 I am...
Playing music instrument to a cow.
Oh, by the way, scientifically.
Oh, you're going to stop.
I know what you're going to say.
And you're not breaking any news here.
You're going to talk about milk, right?
Yes, yes.
More milk, more productive.
But the idea is that you are explaining things to those who cannot understand.
It's not only about...
We're getting to the insult section of the argument now.
It's not only about argument.
It can be that you're trying to lecture someone, but there's not.
I mean, this is quite rude.
Oh, definitely.
Yeah, so be careful with this one.
No, don't say that.
对牛弹琴 I'm playing music to a cow.
Oh, that is wonderful.
Going back, if you don't mind, to Taikang.
Yes, going back to Taikang point.
So now Taikang is a, I think, almost universal way here in China, especially on the Internet.
To say that to another party, you have no grounds.
What you say whatsoever makes no sense.
You're only saying these things because you either don't understand my point or you have no grounds in arguing.
So you're playing language games.
So the sentence would just be like 你抬杠。 You can say that or 不要抬杠了, stop acting like this.
And the funny thing is for those who really, really want to argue with people or disagree with people yes, there is that persona being again and again portrayed in short videos on the platform just to showcase that oh, these kind of people are so annoying and they exist in my life kind of videos mocking them.
And they call them 杠精.
杠精.
So 精 is a Chinese way to say little monsters or goblins or just yeah, not entirely human kind of creatures.
And we know the 杠 is the huge stick.
So 杠精 would be this thing.
Stick is now a representation of those who really always disagree with others, and It's like saying a gobbling of disagreement.
All you know how to do is disagree.
And you do it so well that you transfer from a stick to a creature.
But you're still annoying.
But you're still annoying.
Yes, that's the point.
Fun.
Yes, and here 抬杠, even though we know the 抬, if we really think about it, is the verb kind of character in the word 抬杠.
Yet, if you use 杠 as a word itself, you can use 杠 to represent 抬杠.
So, for example, you can say 不要杠我, don't do that. talking nonsense only to disagree with me kind of thing.
For example on the internet.
Sometimes people would post lovely videos of them helping homeless cats, stray cats, stray dogs.
And there will be people saying, wow, you're so kind to the cats.
Are you kind enough or are you also kind to your parents?
Or sometimes, I know it makes no sense.
You guys should see the face of Steve when I was saying that.
Steve's like, what?
From where to where.
But their argument is that, oh, you're so kind-hearted.
You should be nicer to your parents, not spend your money to stray animals.
But as you can see, there's no real correlation, no real links in any of these things.
So those kind of activity would be 抬杠.
Perfect.
G sound, not the K sound.
Exactly.
A question when you say, if you speak it very quickly, does it sound like A little?
But don't try that.
Don't try to say biao.
No, no.
And while there are different...
Possibility sometimes it's because they genuinely do not believe in what you're saying.
For instance, we've just spent the lovely Chinese New Year long days with our family members.
Oh, we should have done how to fight before the Chinese.
New Year holiday games.
That's what I was trying to say.
Sometimes remote relatives would say the most annoying things.
They accuse you of not getting married.
They accuse you of getting married but no give birth to kids.
And they accuse you of being too nice to your pet.
They want to know your salary.
They want to know your daily schedule, why you haven't lost weight.
Shh why you never contact them and you can tell the difference.
Some people are truly gossiping and nosy and just want to have a little family drama fun.
But some are nice.
They really care and they want you to have the quote unquote perfect life according to their notion.
So some people are 抬杠, some people are just having different opinion which well, I always am a bit nicer to the second type.
I think it's just because they don't know what else to talk about with you.
That too.
Right?
They never see you, you don't keep in touch regularly together, so...
They're just trying to make whatever conversation they can.
That's so, so true.
And when it comes to disagreeing with each other, one thing I don't know.
I think probably in other cultures you would say that as well.
But in Chinese, when we want to do something personally, attacking you or when we want to say something that is not very pleasant we would kind of have a disclaimer in the beginning oh you preface it by saying something polite yes we would say for example 我这个人说话直 so 我这个人 is Someone like me, so me as a person, is a person who 说话 is talk, 直 is straightforward.
So I'm someone who would always voice my opinion very straightforward, hope that's not offensive.
Usually after this, you will hear something offensive.
And also there's the possibility of something like 我不是针对你。 Oh, that is usually in a group debate.
So a lot of people are talking about their ideas and all of a sudden someone says, Steve, 我不是针对你。 我, I, 不是, am not, 针对, focus, or... to pick you up uh i don't i don't i don't mean to single you out i don't mean to single you out but i will exactly that's what i'm gonna say so if you hear something in chinese like No, I'm not being personal.
I don't know if I should say this to you because I don't know if it's polite.
I am not saying this because of you.
I'm saying this because of this thing.
Yeah, usually when they say these things, you're gonna hear something you don't want to hear.
I know what you were trying to ask a moment ago.
You, i'm not picking on you, i'm not picking on, i'm not picking on you, but exactly, but you will be my example.
Yeah, so is that something in other cultures as well?
Well, one of the things that I learned in the last few years I'm really into how to get other people to do what I want.
Everybody should learn that.
The power of persuasion, right?
And that applies to romantic relationships or any relationship at all, really.
Which is why I find arguing so kind of funny in the first place because it's a bit stupid.
Because your goal is always to get the other person to do what you want them to do.
And the way to go about that is very rarely fighting with them.
Right?
Yes.
But, you know, sometimes some people would just want to insult the other party.
Sometimes.
Yeah.
But to answer your question, I think in English I was listening to a podcast about like it was a communication podcast.
And the guest on that particular day was a relationship therapist.
And the advice was in an argument.
Instead of saying things that are very definitive, for example, you're rude or you're being rude or something like that you say I feel.
In front of it.
Yes.
I feel you're disrespecting me right now.
And that softens the blow of your words a little bit.
And it allows the door to be open a little bit.
For you know, you're saying like.
It's basically like saying well, I could be wrong, I guess.
But I feel like...
So saying, I feel, I feel in front of your harsher words will help the argument.
I think like you said, quote unquote, winning an argument.
And getting people to be persuaded would be two different things.
And I'd like to leave our dear listeners and Steve with this Chinese idiom, because I find it really interesting.
It cannot be used in an argument, in a discussion, but it is describing a very fierce debate or discussion.
It is pronounced 唇, 枪, 舌, 剑. So 唇 is your lips.
枪 is a spear.
舌 is 舌头, tongue.
剑 is sword.
唇 枪, 舌 剑.
You're talking about the situation where a lot of people are fighting with their words.
And it's like a real fight.
Your tongues are swords.
Yes.
And yes, in different cultures, we all have those kind of people who are really good at debating or really good at persuading people, getting people to do what they said or, through a debate, get what they really want.
We have a similar expression in English for that one.
We call it a venomous tongue, like a snake.
Like venom, venom comes out of your mouth.
But the venomous tongue is to describe a person who's good at or at least very sharp in arguing.
Yeah.
And like the words are painful.
Yes.
But 唇相舍见 is talking about the situation.
Ah, not the person in themselves.
No, it's talking about the very fierce debate kind of situation.
Oh, it's a sword fight almost.
Yes.
So I think there's always something fun about argument.
And if in your language or in your culture there are things that are usually used in a debate or that are used to describe a debate, please let us know in the comment area.
This is Takeaway Chinese.
I'm Niu Honglin with Steve Hatherly.
Thank you for listening.
感谢收听,我们下次再见!
随便吧!
Bye!
Bye!
Thank you.
