You're listening to Roundtable.
I'm Steve Hatherly, joined today by Xing Yu and Yu Shun.
Coming up, your short video app is having an identity crisis.
One minute you're watching a viral clip, and the next you're in a random video chat with a stranger.
These platforms aren't just for watching anymore.
They're aggressively betting that we'd rather talk than just tap like.
Is this a genuine social revolution or perhaps just a clever new way to keep us locked to our screens?
We'll break it down.
After that, the latest workplace trend isn't about productivity.
It's about sweat.
We'll look at why Chinese professionals are physically rebuilding their workspaces and what it reveals about the modern relationship between health and And hustle.
Our podcast listeners can find us at Roundtable China on Apple Podcasts.
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Roundtable podcast at QQ.com.
Once again, Roundtable podcast at QQ.com.
And now.
You might have noticed short form video platforms feel a little different lately.
Not just new filters or editing tools or things like that, but it feels like something a little bit deeper.
It's starting to feel more social.
Like.
You open the app and suddenly your friends' faces show up amidst the viral short videos, or you jump into a random chatting room to make some new friends.
So what's really going on here?
Are China's biggest short video platforms trying to become the next chatting applications or just finding new ways to keep us scrolling and talking?
I haven't used these just yet, but I've heard exactly what it's all about.
And it seems a little bit, I don't know what the public reaction would be to this.
But first, we'll talk about that later.
But first, let's find out exactly what's going on.
Yeah.
Personally, I'm not a Douyin or Kuaishou user either.
But Douyin and Kuaishou, these are two of China's largest short video platforms.
And they have recently comprehensively upgraded their social features so that they are heading towards more like WeChat moments.
You guys know WeChat moments.
Sure.
Yeah.
We've talked about it on Roundtable before.
Everybody knows, I think.
But just in case you don't, WeChat moments is like...
It's like your Facebook update for your messenger, kind of, right?
Your friends whoever you are friends with on WeChat can see the photos or short videos that you've taken.
But the difference here is that with WeChat or other messenger applications.
Yeah, there's kind of like a side tool where you can see those types of things.
But short form video platforms aren't.
In the past were only short form video platforms, meaning those videos were put up there for everyone to see.
But now things are changing a little bit.
Yeah.
Now they are not just showing your videos to a bunch of strangers, but to some of your friends or to some people that you want to share these videos with.
So that's how these type of short video platforms, especially in the past.
Normally we're just scrolling through these short videos or just post your own videos.
But nowadays it's becoming more.
It's it's more like social networking and private sharing.
Towards that you are connecting with people you actually know.
So it's building a kind of your own friend circle within these short video platform.
Yeah.
So the chat feature has always been there on these short video platforms.
Like you can share the short videos in the app with your friends if you're like following each other.
But this new feature is more like they are trying to make the short video platform more like a instant messaging app so that you can build your whole friend circle on this app.
So that's what i was thinking.
They are trying to um, let's say, create another um, Some of them are creating another platform for these chatting features.
Some of them are in the app.
So they're doing the thing that to attract their users to stay on this app longer.
Applications.
Yeah.
And this is true for any app, right?
Any platform.
They don't want you.
They don't want you leaving.
Yes.
You know, Facebook doesn't want you going to YouTube and YouTube doesn't want you going to Facebook.
Exactly.
Yeah.
So they try to encourage you to stay there.
And speaking of those, or at least Facebook, I guess it's a little bit different but yet somehow similar.
On Facebook though, the difference is you can choose who sees your posts, meaning you can set it to public, or you can set it to your friends or customized list.
Right.
But it's kind of more of a passive feature and it's kind of also buried in the settings a little bit.
It doesn't automatically appear when you post.
And then Instagram, too, that's another popular posting place.
But there you can either post publicly or to your close friends in your stories, but you can't customize visibility post by post for your regular feed.
But this is a little bit different, particularly when we're talking about WeChat Moments.
Mm-hmm.
You can do that each time you post and there's something about it there.
So those two platforms that you mentioned before, Doyen and Kaisho.
So they're adding the, did I say that correctly?
Kaisho.
Kaisho.
So they're adding these features, meaning that they're trying to recreate this.
Are they trying to recreate what WeChat moments already is?
I think some of the functions are quite similar.
But on one hand, for Douyin, they have this new daily creation entry.
So on your profile picture, there's a small plus symbol just at the lower right bottom side.
Yeah, so it's not buried in the setting somewhere.
Yeah, it's not buried.
So you can quickly...
Whenever, wherever you want to share something, you can just click the plus button and just share this information or photos or videos instantly.
And then you can set the time limit for these posts, whether it's 24 hours or three days, or seven days too.
Your friends or you just have a more flexible privacy options for this.
And there's also a colored ring to remind your friends that you have posted something.
So it means, I think it's just like Facebook.
When you post a story on Facebook, there will be a blue ring circled around your profile picture.
So that's the same with Douyin.
So if you post something or a profile picture, Your profile photo gets a blue or green or purple ring.
And when your friends click and view the video, and then the ring will vanish.
Why the color differences then, blue, green, and purple?
I think it depends on the content.
Yeah, the content that you post.
Maybe you post like purely text, and then it could be one color.
And if you post a video, that's another.
When you post a picture, that's another color.
Oh, so it's basically telling your friend what type of story they're about to be seeing.
Yeah, that sounds really similar to Instagram's story.
That's how you post a story.
Basically, some of the process are quite the same.
And I would say yes, they are trying to create this functional feature similarly to other social apps too.
I think not only trying to make them a short video platform, but a social app more or less.
There's something on here that's a little bit different as well, and it's called Little Sparks.
And so here's how it works.
So if you've chatted with somebody on Duyen for three consecutive days it's very specific then there will be a little spark appearing at the top of the chatting interface next to the person's profile picture.
But there's a flip side to that coin.
If you stop chatting for one day, the spark will disappear and it reminds you to reignite it.
I mean, what would be the idea behind that?
You know what?
I would say this is quite a genius idea.
Really?
It kind of forces users to get on this app and use this function and chat with their friends.
And then it creates at least two active users, right?
And they will create a lot of different icons on this form.
First of all, it's a spark.
And then it's flame.
And then it's maybe huge fire.
Oh, yeah, I remember.
You can get a friendship.
Friendship?
Friendship.
That's a ship.
Like a boat.
Yeah.
So in Chinese, because it's called the boat of your friendship.
So it's a ship of your friendship.
It's like kind of a pun that they use.
But if you don't chat with each other for quite a long time, your ship will, your boat will like collapse.
And then, in order to keep the boat of your friendship, you have to talk to each other on this app constantly and consecutively, so you're forced to talk.
That's tricky.
Within this level, i i see why you said.
It's kind of genius, because usually, um chatting applications will not send you.
It's like a push, it's like a nudge, it's like a, it's like saying like hey hey, you haven't talked to this person in a little while.
Don't destroy your friendship with them.
It's quite dramatic, isn't it?
Um, there's a new one as well.
There's a new social app.
It's called Haihai.
Yeah, actually Douyin is still developing this type of a separate social app.
So it's not within this Douyin itself.
Oh, this is brand new.
Yeah.
Brand new separate social, uh, networking app.
Um, and some of the details are still kept in secret, so they haven't released it yet.
So, but they have this plan because I think years ago they have released another uh social networking app called Duoshan.
Uh, it's, well, it was released in 2019.
So like a few years ago.
And, um, On that app, it's just similar to WeChat, I think.
So it's not about sharing your videos, just about chatting with your friends, messaging.
But then in 2023, it's just closed.
It's suspended.
So I think they are having another try on this type of thing.
I guess the problem before then was that it didn't differentiate itself.
It was just exactly the same thing.
And I guess users chose one or the other.
People wouldn't commonly use both, because if you're going to communicate with somebody, you only need one channel in which to do so.
Yeah, I mean, WeChat already has a very solid user base in China.
I think it has an active user of around 1.4 billion already.
So that means almost everybody is using it.
1.4 billion.
Yes.
Literally everybody.
Literally everybody is using it.
And also on our phone, we have very limited storage, right?
So we don't want another app on our phone to chat with maybe not that many friends on that app as well.
So yeah, that failed.
I guess for the platforms, for the short video platforms, what they're doing here is they're fixing some of their weaknesses because Doyen and Kuaishou they have obviously very powerful algorithms, but the personal connections on those apps might be on the weaker side, especially when you compare it to something like WeChat Moments.
And also I think it would be overcoming the sharing barrier as well, because we know that That if you want to go from platform to platform, it means you have to copy the link and you have to post it on a different platform.
But the idea here now is that you can post directly to your friends within the same platform, making it easier and, I guess, encouraging users to make use of that function.
So here's the big question, though.
I mean, they can say whatever they want.
They can do whatever they want.
But is it actually working?
Can short video platforms really compete in social networking?
What do you think?
As Xinyu just said, some of these, like instant messaging app, has already built such a solid user group.
And it's quite hard for these social or short video platforms to compete. to break I would say.
So that is kind of that question or problem that these platforms are facing.
Is that not so fast the users are like adapting the new way of chatting?
Of course they are using the chatting feature, but not like or fully on this app or create the whole system on this.
So people open this Douyin or Kuaishou to watch videos, not to chat mostly, and that's habit formed over years and that is why it is not that actively responded.
Yeah, I'm just wondering, because we know that expression right, a solution to a problem that we don't have.
Yeah, do you want to see a video update of what your friend is doing at any particular time?
Because there's something different between you.
Know again, to use facebook as an example, people will post about something and they might put their face on the video and say oh, here i am at this place today.
Um, and sometimes not.
It'll just be a video of wherever they are.
But if it was only that, i feel like i don't need to know what my friends are doing that often.
How do you feel about it?
Um Yeah, I think the same here.
I am not that interested in what my friends are posting on their videos.
But also, I think WeChat is already enough and it has a function of more than just an instant messaging app.
It has short videos as well. embedded on WeChat and also payment, transportation, so everything.
You have everything on WeChat.
So that somehow increases user stickiness instead of we just going to another platform for the same experience.
What do you think, Yuxuan?
Are you interested in this?
That is more like the feature of these social apps.
But I think the problem is that do we need another platform to see these kind of content?
Because we have already had so many other social media apps to share different types of our information.
We didn't even talk about Chao Hongshu, right?
Red note.
And that's another place that you can see this type of information.
Yeah, I guess it's perhaps too early to tell if these new features will be popular or not.
Is there any kind of netizen reaction thus far?
I guess it's perhaps too early.
We'll have to wait and see.
But who knows?
If they don't try, if you don't try, you can't be successful.
So perhaps we'll come back to this topic at some point in the future.
You're tuned in to Roundtable.
And coming up next, why are China's hardest working employees turning their desks into mini gyms?
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This is Roundtable, and today I'm with Yuxuan and Xinyu.
My name's Steve.
And have you heard about the new trend pedaling a mini bike under your office desk or maybe bouncing on a yoga ball during an Internet call?
They're not walking into a gym.
This is how the most hardcore office workers in China are rolling these days.
They're not decorating their desks with cute plushies.
That trend is gone.
Now they're building mini fitness stations.
We're talking resistance bands and grip trainers and massage rollers, the whole kit.
Just the other day.
As a matter of fact, up one floor from where we are right now, I saw someone using an ab roller at lunchtime and I said what are you doing?
And they said I'm rolling my abs.
Do you want to try?
And I said no and I walked away immediately.
So I've seen this firsthand.
That was Lai Ming, by the way.
I've seen this firsthand and he was very good at it.
I must say as well, and also honestly, part of the reason I said no was because he was so good at it.
That requires a lot of core strength.
I was thinking if I'm not good at it, I'm going to be embarrassed here.
But anyway, this is proof, isn't it, that the trend here in offices in China, they're getting healthier, not through the meals that they're eating the people, the meals that they're eating, but through the exercise equipment at their desks.
So where did this trend even come from?
So a lot of people right now are having like long work hours, right?
So many can't make it to the gym after work.
So desk workouts offer some kind of passive self-discipline and exercising while staying at work, even though they may work overtime or something like that.
And also health concerns is one thing that is being highly discussed lately.
Prolonged sitting cause uh, causes issues like a cervical spondylosis right, and also shoulder pain, a lot of things, neck pain, wrists if you're using your mouse all day long.
So some of these desk exercises can help prevent these and correct bad posture habits.
And also, as you mentioned some that they may not use any plush toys.
Maybe they are using plush toys and these kind of exercises because for uh, because of some like mental boost.
You know, moderate movement release endorphins.
Uh, reduces like stress to make you happy.
Yeah, it's just getting your body up and getting it moving a little bit.
Because um, office work can make you very stagnant, can't it?
You just sit in the same position yeah, all day long.
So um, who's using this?
I mean, where is that?
With whom is this popular?
Yeah, mostly young professionals, like Yushun mentioned.
We are office workers.
We spend eight to 10 hours sitting in an office and we do need some of the exercise.
So I think that trend means we are trying to squeeze in some exercise during our office hours.
And also for some of the health conscious ones, they are really putting an emphasis on their health.
So I saw an example of about a woman, she changed her chair for a yoga ball.
That's dangerous.
Yes, but I think... That would be so annoying sitting next to that person.
Yeah, and it can be really hard to concentrate.
We should all get yoga balls.
Can't you just hear her or him?
Oh my.
Yeah, it's hard to imagine.
But I do, I think I have seen some of our colleagues doing Ba Duan Jin in our office.
Ba Duan Jin is a traditional Chinese set of movements without any equipment.
So it's quiet and then You can just stand up during your break and then do a few moves and you can relieve your stress and make you feel better.
We have a little tiny kind of park area next to our building and I've seen people doing that during their lunchtime there.
Yes, yes.
There as well, yeah.
No, I'm making jokes, but obviously this is a good idea because, as we talked about it already, there are easy health problems that can come because you're doing this all day, every day, a lot of the time right.
Yeah.
Even having a yoga ball at your desk.
Not from nine to six you don't want to be sitting on a yoga ball, but maybe for like I don't know a half an hour, 20 minutes every now and again.
Why not?
I think it's kind of a good idea.
Well, I mean, that being said, is this a gimmick or is this actually good for people know what?
When i was a kid, my dad used to watch these health programs on tv and they will teach you how to do healthy movements when you're on the bus.
So i think they are quite the same thing.
That's like little movements like on your hands, on your neck, on your um thigh, that kind of thing.
So practicing like something like this on the bus or on in the office, to Though you might get some strange looks from others while doing this.
But personally I would say it is kind of good trick that you can just use your, Use your office time to do a little bit of exercise while doing your work.
Yeah, I mean... While doing your work.
Well, I mean, if you're sitting on a yoga ball... I keep coming back to that example.
I'm a little bit obsessed with it.
But it's... Yeah, then you're doing it...
While you're working, I suppose.
I saw other tools too, because I was curious about this.
You know other pieces of equipment that people are using.
And they don't call it a treadmill.
They call it... They have different types of exercise equipment.
Like, one is an elliptical machine.
One was called an... I think it was called a desk walking machine, which...
It looks like a treadmill, but it doesn't have the vertical front of it.
It will let you walk slowly on it.
Yeah, it just sits on the floor.
But you're sitting.
It's like when you're at the airport and you take that little horizontal escalator.
What do you call those things?
Those things that move you along more quickly.
It's basically one of those.
Um, so there's that.
And then people, some people too, will use like little desk weights or whatever.
Um dumbbells dumbbells, right.
They'll put them on their desk and just use them sometimes.
But here's my question.
If people are just kind of like on that little walking machine for I don't know five minutes, right.
Then they put it away, or use the dumbbell for like 20 seconds and then put it away, or the yoga ball or whatever the equipment is.
Wouldn't there be a danger that they think they're getting an actual good workout when in actuality they might not be doing anything that's really beneficial at all?
I think they know what they're doing, and I think they know what they're not doing.
If they're just doing it like 20 seconds a day, of course that's not going to work and they know it.
But if they're just doing it constantly, maybe every 45 minutes...
Of course that will work.
Or is it just a psychological comfort?
That's what I mean.
Yeah, you feel that you have done something.
You have exercised.
But actually, it's not enough.
Or it's just in the wrong way.
I would think it might be annoying for your coworkers, too.
Right.
Like if you're sitting next to a person and you're trying to do your work and you hear like right, that's going to be a distraction.
And I would feel that your work is maybe not bad enough or your plate isn't full.
OK, let's end with this question then.
Is this you?
Are you in this group of office exercisers or are you not?
But I do try to go for a walk every other hour just to stand up and maybe sometimes climb.
Is that for exercise or are you just hiding from your responsibilities?
Yeah, you're sitting too long.
So you need some exercise just for a walk.
I absolutely see a lot of people like stand to walk or walk.
Right.
I didn't ask about other people.
I knew.
But anyway, it's absolutely a reminder for us to you know, not every exercise is happening in a gym.
That is true.
If you make good use of it, obviously it's going to be a benefit for you.
And that will do it for today's roundtable.
Thank you very much for sharing your time with us today.
I'm Steve for Yushun and Xinyu.
Please do join us again next time.
