You're listening to Roundtable with myself He Young, I'm joined by Gao Junya and Steve Hatherly coming up.
We share with you what's brought us sheer delight this week, join us for a dose of positivity, laughter and all things that make our hearts sing in Roundtable's happy place.
And, these days, navigation apps are more than just maps.
They help you review restaurants, book tickets, and even plan your whole day.
But is it all a little bit too much?
We explore how digital map apps are changing the game, and why they're not winning everyone over.
Your voice matters, and we would love to hear it in our heart -to -heart segment.
Got a question? Something you're itching to share?
Fire up that voice memo and hit us up at Roundtable Podcast at QQ .com.
Our podcast listeners can find us at Roundtable China on Apple Podcast.
Now, welcome to the happiest corner on the airwaves, Roundtable's happy place.
Delivery, delivery, delivery.
What is it? Happiness from Roundtable.
Junya, what's your happy place this week?
You know, I hope this doesn't sound that's too much political because I had this chance to interview the president of Botswana, Maguisi Masisi, at the just concluded FOCAC summit.
The thing that made me happy is because I had the chance to sit down with him back in 2018 in Haborone, the capital of Botswana, while I was a journalist in Southern Africa.
And he remembered me during this visit, and when he greeted me, he said, just nice to see you again.
Yes, we last met in Haborone.
So of course, we had quite some happy discussions, like he mentioned, that big diamond that was recently discovered in Botswana, the biggest one in over one century.
And he said that you need to touch it, you need to feel it.
It made your blood flow faster, things like that.
It's like talking to an old friend because I was so nervous before talking to him.
Really? Why? Because I didn't have that much time to prepare for the interview because I don't want to look that's not professional.
I don't want to refer to the questions, I just want to sit down with him to talk.
And then it took me a lot of time to remember the questions.
But so I was so nervous because I got the notice quite on a short notice.
But while sitting down with him and while he started to talk to me, just feel like talking to an old friend.
And he starts with, you know, like we last met in 2018, Haborone, things like that, just made me calm down.
Yeah, so that was quite some happy experience for me.
That's very comforting, isn't it?
And I hope I can have another chance to talk to him maybe in another six years.
Or hopefully shorter than that.
And Junia, where can we find that interview?
It's on the radio .cgtn .com, our website, and it's on the podcast, China Africa Talk.
Wonderful. Yeah, it's cool.
Interviewing really important people is a nerve wracking experience, isn't it?
But they can really put you at ease when they acknowledge that they've met you before.
I've done interviews where I've interviewed a person a second time and I say, oh, yeah, I met you at this place.
And we talked and they said, oh, really?
And that's understandable, too.
But that immediately made you feel calm, more confident, and what a nice man, what a nice thing to do.
Yes. And yes, he does has a sharp mind.
He remembered me. Very nice.
And that's Junia's happy place.
What about you, Steve?
I have two this week.
And I kind of wish I had gone first because I didn't interview any leaders from many different countries.
I have two happy places this week.
Number one is about my home.
My wife and I, we love aesthetic and we love home interior and we love to take care of plants.
It's kind of a weird little thing that we both share.
It's like our hobby that we have together.
Pardon me. And there's a wonderful plant market, not too far from where we live.
And we went and we got about, I think we have 15 new plants in the house now.
That's a lot. Right?
And it makes the house smell a little bit better when you go in and then we spend time, a little bit of time each evening checking on each plant and wiping down the leaves.
She does that more than I do.
And watering them and taking care of them.
And it just makes the house a much more pleasant place to be.
Right. Did I catch you correctly wiping down the leaves?
Yes, you have to do that.
One for aesthetic value.
They look shinier when you do that.
But then if you rub them with like a mixture of maybe rubbing alcohol and water, then it will kill any potential bugs that might come with the plant as well.
So it keeps your house bug free.
Oh, nice. I've learned something new and not going to own a plant like so.
If you ever need plant advice, then I'm the guy to come to.
Yes. And what's the second?
Or are you keeping that for a different week?
No, I can share that as well.
Well, during the process of moving to China and packing up where we lived in Korea and then moving here, I had gotten away from eating properly and exercising, which are two really important things for me.
And I'm happy to say that I've gained about 2 .5 kilograms after restarting my regular routine of going to the gym and eating a lot.
So yeah, my weight has increased.
And I know that sounds like a weird thing to say when people are always trying to lose weight.
But I was the skinny kid when I grew up.
And I really don't like that word, skinny, skinny, you're so skinny, you're so skinny.
I heard it all the time when I was a kid.
So I don't like being a quote unquote skinny guy.
So to gain weight for me is a goal of mine.
Okay. And also what might make you feel even better is you mentioned going to the gym.
So maybe it's the added weight of muscle.
Yeah, hopefully. Hopefully not the other added weight, but just happy to be a little bit heavier.
What's your happy place this week?
Okay. My happy place this week dates back to September 11th, 1947, deep in a mountainous cave in Shuxian or Shuh County, Handan, Hebei Province in northern China.
Weilin broadcast the very first English news report from what was then called the Northern Shanxi Xinhua radio station known by its call sign XNCR.
Fast forward 77 years from China Radio International to today's CGTN radio.
Our radio station has come a long way.
And this September 11th, I had the incredible opportunity to visit that very cave where English radio broadcasting in the People's Republic of China began.
Happy 77th anniversary.
Wow. Wow. What a treat.
What did it feel like to be there?
Well, it was a proud moment for all of us there and Junya was there as well.
Yes. And continuing the legacy of generations of English broadcasters, we may be 77 years in, but our energy is still blazing like day one.
While we remain rooted in radio, we've embraced the contemporary media landscape expanding into podcasts.
I know a lot of you are listening to our show there and a digital media to share our voice with the world and visiting the exact location where Weilin, the first English broadcaster of the People's Republic of China, once worked was truly special for me.
Born in 1924 in Shanghai, Weilin attended a Christian school before studying foreign languages at Central University in Chongqing.
In 1946, she traveled to Yan 'an and the rest is history and walking in her footsteps into that cave where she worked every day.
It hit me just how far we've traveled from where it all began.
And there's something truly powerful about tracing the roots of what you do.
Visiting where our English broadcast commenced felt like stepping into history and it gave me this deep sense of connection, reminding me of just how far we've come and how much further we can go.
Our history lays the foundation for the strides we make today and that is my happy place.
Coming up, let's take a closer look at how digital maps are transforming simple guides into multitasking platforms and the mixed feelings they're stirring up.
Stay tuned. Looking for passion?
How about fiery debate?
Want to hear about current events in China from different perspectives?
Then tune in to Roundtable, where East meets West and understanding is the goal.
Is the Hour of Roundtable with myself He Young?
I'm joined by Gao Junya and Steve Hatherly in the studio.
Navigation apps aren't just for directions anymore.
It's a full -on review platform, travel guide, and even a ticket booking service.
While some users love the convenience, others think these apps are trying to do way too much.
Is this tech making life easier or complicating it?
Let's map out the future of digital maps.
So from basic to advanced, what are the features provided by Chinese navigation apps these days?
Yes, I think China is definitely taking the lead and it has made a lot of progress in terms of digital maps, and I think a lot of foreigners who visit China, maybe Steve included, would be a little bit surprised or shocked by the precision of the Chinese digital maps.
They can tell you the road conditions, which lane to take, and how many seconds are left for the green lights to turn into red lights.
They are very specific, which is really cool and useful.
Yes, and Chinese advanced satellite systems like Beidou and Tianton are enhancing the navigation application with robust offline capabilities and emergency SOS functions, ensuring reliable guidance even without network coverage.
And for example, the tech goes like this.
When there's no road or Wi -Fi in the wild, digital maps like AMAP can use data from Beidou satellite to ensure continuous navigation.
Meanwhile, users' routes are recorded and they can send SOS signals to professional rescuers.
Oh, that's amazing.
That is very, very comforting to know that even if there's not a signal, you can still access the information and others can still access the information about where you are in case they need it.
Yes, and I do think that the real -time lane information is really useful and especially maybe if you're using this map service but you're walking, it might be a slightly different experience, but I think it comes in super handy if you're a driver because it gives you a heads up.
In 500 meters, there's going to be the first left turn and then so mentally you're prepared and sometimes when you're in heavy traffic, it's just really, really helpful that you know to switch lanes ahead of time or at least plan the next 100 meters.
As best you can, yeah.
The best you can and these navigation apps are really helpful that way.
Yeah, the lane level guidance is amazing and they do that from big data.
So they use information from a lot of different users about their movements and then waiting times at traffic lights are determined and then the patterns of light changes at intersections so that when you're a driver, you can be as informed as possible about which lane you need to be in and that's just
really cool that they can do that now.
Yes, indeed. And that is also building upon the infrastructure of the precision of the Beto system like Junya mentioned also super fast internet because you need fast Wi -Fi to enable this service, so to speak.
And there's also 3D mapping that some people find to be really helpful too.
Yes, 3D maps provide immersive realistic views of landscapes and landmarks, enhancing spatial awareness and accuracy through advanced 3D modeling.
For example, the Tangshin map, Wi -Map, they actually provide such 3D mapping.
Yeah, and sometimes I don't know if you're a heavy user of digital maps like I am, especially when I'm visiting a new country.
Sometimes the map, this is a little embarrassing to admit, but the map shows you where to go.
It even has the little arrow to point to the direction, but is it just me?
I still can't find the direction because you can't tell where is north.
So I'm just like a lunatic standing at the place and using my smartphone to try to spin to different directions and try to find the right direction.
So you have to follow the arrow, the arrow shows you, the tip of the arrow.
If you move your phone around, then the tip of the arrow moves with you, so therefore you can find which way you're supposed to go.
That's on you. That's not on the map.
Okay, for those slow users like me, I like to think there's more than just me.
There's another function where you can click on that.
There's an extra arrow of an icon on the sidebar, I suppose, and then a ginormous arrow will...
Oh, first of all, you need to scan a building or an obvious physical sign in the real world using your phone to scan that, and then enable that feature of the arrow, and then it gives you this almost like real lifelike arrow to point to the direction.
That becomes useful because sometimes if, let's say, you're underground, you're in B1, maybe at a food court like the other day I was, but I was trying to get to the first floor to get onto the street level and I just couldn't find it.
So having this real lifelike ginormous arrow that shows you the direction is helpful.
I was in Beijing for a very short time and I was staying downtown.
And when you're in a new city for the first time, you don't know where anything is.
And we were trying to find a bank machine.
So we knew the general area of the bank machine, but when I opened up the navigation app and we were walking, we weren't in a cab, we weren't driving.
As I was walking, this feature came...
And I've never seen this on a navigation app before, and I'm not sure which navigation app I was using, but it was one from China.
And all of a sudden, the street in front of me appeared on my phone, the real street in real time, but the arrows were still there telling me where to go.
So it wasn't 3D, it wasn't any kind of map on a screen.
It was the actual street in front...
I've never seen that before and it was completely helpful and we found the place, no problem.
Oh, that's fantastic.
With no wrong turns.
Unlike me. Okay, so probably my bad.
But on top of all of these navigation features, there are some of these functions that these digital maps carry that are kind of beyond your imagination, such as booking tickets, planning the day, planning and also booking group tours and getting all these recommendations of restaurants, public bath,
spa places. Lifestyle things.
All kinds of these things.
Yeah. Is this kind of China -specific, according to your international experience?
Yeah, according to my experience, yes, it is.
I've not seen that before.
So for those of you who haven't opened up one of these maps in China before, when you open up the map, then the first thing you see at the top of the screen is the map itself.
But if you scroll down a little bit, then you'll see all these subsections, these food sections, these lifestyle sections, these ticket or travel sections as well.
And that's what the apps are doing now, right?
Is that they're providing all of this extra service that you typically wouldn't expect to find when you open up a navigation app.
So when I was clicking around and I spent maybe 10 or 15 minutes with the app, clicking through things, I was really surprised to find some of the services that were offered.
But I guess that's what I'm speculating.
I'm guessing that's what the navigation apps are trying to do, are trying to provide more services to their customers so that they can provide a better quality product.
And also maybe to make more profits, because I think profitability could be a big problem for those map companies.
And if they want to make this sustainable, because they're free, free of charge for users.
And if they want to sustain their services, they have to make certain profits.
That's why they've absorbed so many services.
And for me, one of the features I use a lot is ride hailing.
Yeah, directly from the map.
Digital maps. Are they really good?
Yeah, I think they're good.
Yeah, reliable. But I think there is this over -reliance on digital maps.
My brain isn't functioning that well.
I know what you mean.
Every time I look for a place, I will just go to the map.
Even though sometimes I know maybe which subway station I can just go off, but I need to know which exit I need to take.
I was in a taxi in Korea many years ago.
And he was taking me to meet my friends at a restaurant.
And I had never been to that restaurant before, and it was in this really complicated area of Gangnam in Seoul with all these little back streets.
And he was following the map, and it was left turn, right turn, left turn, right turn, left turn, right turn.
And I asked him, sir, how long have you been a taxi driver?
And he said, oh, about 40 years.
I said, how did you find places without GPS?
How did you do that?
And he said, with great difficulty.
He said, as a taxi driver, when these maps came out in the first place, absolute and total game changer.
And now the game has changed for us.
We remember paper maps when we used to open up those big foldable things.
Those are long gone.
Sure, it's made us a little bit reliant on these apps, I guess, but I think it's a pretty good thing.
Well, it's good to know where you're going and also have different routes to pick which ones faster, which ones got less traffic lights, which ones, oh, more shady during summertime.
Which one is the better cyclist route?
I think it's great to have these kinds of information.
But I was going to ask you this question.
As a consumer, though, from your point of view, do you want this extra information in your navigation app?
Do you want restaurant information in their travel information?
Do you want to be able to book tickets?
Or for you as a consumer, is this unnecessary?
That's a good question.
And my answer is nuanced.
It kind of depends on the information it's giving me.
I'll give you an example.
Google Maps, for example, internationally, at least as when I was traveling in Japan last month or the month before, I was given this tip by my international friends that you go check the restaurant reviews on Google Map instead of Yelp or TripAdvisor because on Google Map, that's where the most authentic
and real comments and reviews are going to be.
So I went, looked up information, and it worked out really well for me.
And I'll give you another example with the, well, and this is a little bit of a scandal in China with one of these very popular navigation apps.
And people did the same.
That is, go onto this map app to look up restaurant reviews and also reviews for repair services.
For example, like when your air conditioner needs some fixing and then that person went onto the app to look up reviews and got false information.
And that triggered a whole cascade of criticism of when your app is so versatile, it says it can do all these things, but you're not delivering quality service and you're not giving me the correct information than bad app.
So what about you, Junya?
Do you think that it's better to have all these services in one map app or you'd rather it just to be giving you directions?
Personally, I would prefer simple services.
Yeah, I would use different apps to meet my different demands.
And I think some of the problems you mentioned, like false information they provided, is also because maybe, for example, here in China, it's been developing so fast, some restaurants, maybe they've been open for one month or two months, they would be closed.
But the information is not updated on the database.
Then it's not on the map.
Yeah, but I mean, I used Google Maps downtown in Beijing and that gave me false information as well about not intentionally, of course, but it said a restaurant was open when in fact, that restaurant didn't even it wasn't just not open.
It wasn't even there.
So, you know, it's bad luck sometimes.
I think this is part of the challenge when these map apps are trying to break into a market that they didn't exist in before.
And what I mean is we have our restaurant apps, we have our apps for those types of things.
They're well established and we've gotten used to using them.
We like them. When we think of that, we open up that app.
The map apps are late to the game.
They aren't the first to offer these services.
So what they're asking customers to do is to switch over their preference from what they're doing already.
That's a real, real challenge.
Their argument is that you can do it all in one app.
You can get everything while you're here.
But again, the challenge is to get people to change their habits, to get them to not use apps that they've been using for a while.
That's going to be a tough cookie to crack.
Yes. Then you must demonstrate that you're actually better than the individual apps who specialize in that one service and you're better.
But that's yeah, like you said, it's really tough.
But, you know, all in one app can work really well.
For example, like WeChat, it's become sort of the Swiss army knife of apps for Chinese people.
And it's so much beyond a messaging app.
And then I can understand why these digital map apps are trying to do something similar.
That is, when you've got the amount of visits and digital foot traffic to your app like this level, I'm talking about five hundred million users every month on just a map or digital.
And you've got this much foot traffic.
Then how do you turn it into money?
Your customer base is already there.
Yes. But they're struggling to to make money.
They're, in fact, hammering money every year.
And recently I saw it was something along the lines of one billion yuan of loss.
And this I'll still use a map as an example.
It's owned by or it's got significant shares owned by Alibaba.
So it's got a deep pocketed investor or mother company.
And therefore maybe it's not under immediate pressure to make revenue, to make a profit.
But now after years of Alibaba owning this company, then sort of they need to speed up to show that there is profitability.
And that's a predicament for that for that app.
And when their competition is starting to do things like this, offering extra services, then they feel pressured to make the same moves.
Yeah. And I guess it's up to the map app operators to truly come up with a good way to make some money, I suppose.
But for me, using these navigation apps is like putting blinders on.
You miss out on all those surprise corners and chance encounters that make each journey a story untold.
We'll see you next time on Roundtable.
