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Hello and welcome to World Today.
I'm Zhao Ying.
Chinese President Xi Jinping has visited South Korea for the first time in 11 years.
He sat down with South Korean President Lee Jae-myung on the sidelines of the APEC summit in Gyeongju.
President Xi called for opening up new prospects for bilateral relations.
This came after years of tension after Seoul decided to host the U.S.
THAAD missile defense system in 2016.
He also emphasized the importance of strengthening friendship between the two peoples and bringing their hearts closer together.
President Lee said South Korea is willing to strengthen cooperation with China, maintain the stability of the supply chain and bring more well-being to the people of both countries.
Are we witnessing a reset in China-South Korea relations?
What is driving this shift, and could South Korea's approach offer a model for other US allies navigating relations with China?
For these questions and more.
We are joined by Rong Ying, chair professor at the School of International Studies at Sichuan University.
Li Peimei, assistant professor of political science at the International Islamic University, Malaysia.
Digby James Ren, external relations advisor to the Royal Academy of Cambodia, and he is also the chair of BRCP, a geopolitical risk advisory firm.
So welcome to you all.
And Professor Rong, let me start with you.
How significant is President Xi's first visit to South Korea in 11 years?
And would you see this as a reset in bilateral ties?
Yeah, thank you again for having me.
It was a very significant visit, as very much, I think, reflected by both the remarks or the interviews given by Wang Yi and the foreign minister.
And also, I think, from the Korean side, about.
I think we can understand how important, how significant or, I think, how much sort of, how many anticipations expectations that, following the visit, the impact of the relationship as a whole, but the most importantly,
I think, at the outcomes of their visit being implemented, how significantly it would be, in fact, the overall relationship between China and ROK, and also the region as a whole.
I think, having said that, of course, A few highlights, first and foremost, as you rightly said, that being the strategic partnership for cooperation.
That commitment has been reiterated.
As we remember, that characterization of the relationship was first agreed in 2008.
So that is a very important framework for the relationship.
And, of course, the practical cooperation.
There are some again agreements, important agreements signed over hand, not only on the question of the traditional ones, for example, on the question of the trade and investment, but also on some we called emerging sectors related to digital economy and so and so forth.
Last but not least, i think there's also been understanding that institutionally i mean in terms of practical cooperation or trade and investment i think the second so-called DA China I mean ROK 20 free trade agreement I mean that has to be would be reviewed and negotiations would be sort of started.
And the last but not least, I think, of course, at the regional and global level, there are many understandings that would also, in together, helps the countries I mean two countries to navigate the uncertainties and changes, transformation that are taking place in the region and the world at large.
But the most important, to provide the ground for closer people to people.
Interactions, as again, are very much important for close neighbors, I think between China and the UK.
Yes.
So, Professor Lee, what do you think made now the right moment for China and South Korea to start mending their ties?
Well, thank you for the question.
So I think Professor has elaborated on how this is a very significant moment for both to actually repair their ties.
But I also wish to say, why is it now the right moment?
It's because I believe, first of all, I think neighbors...
I mean they understand that they're neighbors and it was never a good idea for neighbors to be hostile towards each other.
And at present I think they have.
They share common ground to better their relations, which is the unpredictability of Donald Trump and his nationalist policies.
Meaning that I think even you know traditional US allies like South Korea.
They weren't sure if Donald Trump and his administration will actually be backing them for whatever happens.
For example, there is an escalation in the Korean Peninsula.
Therefore, I think this is the common ground that China and South Korea actually share, where they think the unpredictability of Donald Trump actually brings a lot of uh volatility to the global economy, which is harmful for everyone.
Yeah.
So um South Korea, at this moment, they needed consistency and stability, and this is something um the.
This is only something that China can actually provide them, because the relationship with China actually has been quite consistent and stable.
Uh, but of course they are.
You know certain issues uh, which are unresolved and their differences unresolved, but generally actually, China has a very clear foreign policy towards South Korea.
And this is also a good moment for China and South Korea, particularly for South Korea, because there are important issues that China can actually help with, but not the US.
So, for example, we look at, you know, South Korea is actually hoping China could help with re-engaging North Korea.
So we have seen in recent years an increase in military activities within the Korean demilitarized zones.
So this is something very alarming and insecure for South Korean people.
So this shows that if the ties, re-engagement with North Korea cannot happen without the help of China,
So the role of China in this war re-engagement is very important.
And I think South Korean.
They don't want to see that their relationship with North Korea getting worse over the time because it can bring a lot of instability to the Korean peninsula.
But again, I want to say that this visit also is quite significant because it coincided with the 10th anniversary of the South Korea-China Free Trade Agreement.
Presidency also say that oh, they hope that they can actually accelerate the discussions for the phase two of this free trade agreement.
So with that, you know, if that can be done by including other areas of cooperation, like high tech, digital trade, it actually can help to better ties between both countries.
Okay, so Dr Ren?
Actually, just now, Professor Lee said that Trump's nationalist policies and the ties with North Korea are like the key factors that somehow push China and South Korea closer together.
Anything you want to add?
Well, yes, because under the previous president, who's now in prison, President Yoon, you know, they really stirred up all of the sort of, or intensified all of the nationalist and populist sentiments, you know, with sort of false narratives about China and And I think it's very interesting that the new president, Lee Jae-myung, he's really focusing on a much more pragmatic and flexible foreign policy, obviously influenced and driven by the actions of the United States and Donald Trump.
And I think that made the depth of the alliance.
I don't think the alliance is going to break, but I do believe that they're going to seek more strategic autonomy within the alliance.
And this is not new.
I mean, the Australians have tried to do the same thing.
So I think that's a kind of a trend, actually.
And most of that can be blamed on the actions of Donald Trump, of course.
But look, there's so much that can be built upon.
As the previous speaker just said the, you know, trying to maximize South Korea's national interests means basically, you know, in diplomacy, security and the economy.
And you know, economically of course, it's been difficult for South Korea over the last.
Well, even just a few years actually, not just the last year, but actually for two or three years.
It's been quite difficult.
So it's the only way to go here is up with the relationship with China.
I think it's all know positive momentum, even though there are some still some sticking points about things like, i don't know, cultural legacy and so forth.
But look this the, this new neighborhood diplomacy action from china, i think lines up perfectly with the situation.
Uh, and so um, seoul can produce, you know, can definitely chase its strategic directions more directly with with beijing and, and that is all good Yeah.
And also, Dr. Ren, how would you characterize Li Zhiming's strategy now?
Because he actually said the old formula, US for security, China for economy is no longer viable.
So what do you think?
Is he seeking some new balancing act now?
Well, yes, definitely.
That's I mean, what he's saying is that, you know, the alliance is not going to break.
But what's going to happen is Korea is going to be thinking about its its own real interests and its own real geography, and its other trade partners much, much more.
And, you know, a strategic autonomy within the alliance structure that it has.
And so yes, you know Seoul has going to, I think, connect much more into the new economy, new productive forces, if you like, so tech and green and all those sorts of things.
There's enormous complementarity between South Korea and China.
So I think that is going to be a win-win definitely in economic terms for sure.
And that's going to spill over into people and people, tourism and all those sorts of things.
And Korea has got a good model for a lot of that too, you know, cultural activities and other new productive forces.
They're really quite advanced in that.
And I think China can learn from Korea in many ways.
Okay.
So, Dr Rowan, why do you think President Lee would say that the old formula is no longer viable?
And do you think it is easy for it to separate its diplomatic strategy from its security alliance with the US?
Well, that's a great question.
I think the so-called formula US for security, China for economy is kind of possibly, I think, too simplistic way to to describe a kind of a complicated dynamic which has been constantly evolving or shifting in the context where, first and foremost, I think, China and the US relationship is also undergoing some dramatic changes.
As also I see in short term, I mean in the wake of the pandemic, important sort of meeting between President Xi and President Trump.
I mean the relationship is now moving towards a kind of stability, while the structural contradictions or problems remain.
So, in the meantime, I think recognition or the understanding that China's role in the region certainly on the peninsula, but also in the region as well well, I mean go be much beyond economic and trade and the field has a very important sort of role, or increasingly important role, in terms of maintain peace and stability on the peninsula and in the region as a whole.
So that formula, Or possibly, if we want to look at the changing dynamic, definitely it's too old.
But what will be the new framework or new formula to describe or to help understanding the new dynamic?
That would be something I think certainly have to look at by taking are the changes that are taking place bilaterally but, most importantly I think, the interactions between these major countries.
So we have actually not talked about Russia and also a stakeholder important stakeholder, I mean the DPRK and how these relationship among them are being sort of involving.
Okay.
And Professor Li, just now you said that Seoul may want to hedge against its over-dependence on Washington, especially given the Trump administration's nationalist policies.
Then how do you think Washington might view this thought between South Korea and China?
And would you see it as a potential challenge to U.S. influence in the region?
Well, I think first of all, again like what both speakers have actually highlighted, Increasingly now, the space for South Korea to maneuver between US and China is actually getting narrower.
The space to navigate is getting narrow because, like what Professor said, it's no longer so simplistic that South Korea can choose.
I can cooperate with US for security and China for economy.
The reason was because, as we can see, their geopolitical competition between the US and China has escalated not only in security, but also in economy.
So that is very difficult for South Korea to actually separate security cooperation with the US from economic cooperation with China.
So it's no longer a choice that South Korea can make.
So, for example, of course you know there is a nationalist policies from Trump that makes South Korea very feel very uncertain and unsure whether they will be given the security guarantee that they're supposed to be given.
So under this situation, I think what would happen is that South Korea can still cooperate with China, but only on selective issues that are not so sensitive.
So, for example, what I would say sensitive probably cooperation in semiconductor in certain areas, like helping China to assess high technology in production, might be quite sensitive.
So because, as we know, the US is not keen to have China to develop self-sufficiency in this aspect, and US working with other countries are actually restricting China's access to semiconductor high tech, whether it's the you know chip making equipment or or the high-end chips.
So this is something that the US might not be happy if China and South Korea actually work on this area.
But again, I think South Korea still needs to balance, needs to navigate and therefore, rather than talking about cooperation and security with the US and cooperation with South Korea, its presidency, we want to take on a new role as a bridge between both powers.
So what they want to do is like what DB has actually highlighted.
They want to seek strategic autonomy within the alliance and they want to South Korea, wanted to pursue a balanced and independent South Korean foreign policy.
So that means is that the new role as a bridge is more like a convening platform for both parties to actually come together to talk, but rather, you know, as a role that can dissolve these strategic tensions between the US and China.
So again, this is something like a test for the leadership, South Korean leadership.
They really need to reshape its foreign policy when dealing with Trump, nationalist policy and also, you know, their cooperation with China.
Okay, so Professor Wong, where do you think China might stand on these so-called sensitive issues?
And President Xi emphasized mutual respect and seeking common ground while shelving differences.
What does that mean in practice?
And also, we have to remember, the third issue hasn't really been resolved, right?
Yeah, that's, again, a great question.
I think the third issue, South Korea okay, I can say should learn good lessons from that episode which, as you rightly said, has not fully resolved.
Rather, some of the sort of issues or deep-rooted issues related to Sard remains not only there but still in the future, could come back to haunt South Korea.
I very much, I think, agree with...
Professor May talked I mean remarks about the difficulties, but also, I think, the need to strike a new balance.
I mean a balance by sort of redefines.
South Korea has to redefine its role as a bridge.
And also I think to do that, to ensure that it would have more or pursue more strategic autonomy.
That is actually very much reflected in the thinkings of the new administration ROK President Li Jianming.
I mean talking about putting its national interest first and to pursue a pragmatic diplomacy.
The question is, of course, it's always, I think whether ROK, I mean they could, the policymaker, they could, I think, work out first, I think, reach a consensus among themselves.
I know there are.
I mean some, I mean people who very much still believe that follow.
I mean there are different views.
I mean, those who very much focus on the alliance between the two, between ROK and the US.
There are others who are very much advocate a kind of strategy of autonomy.
By putting I mean by looking for more rooms or for levelages.
All in all, I think President Xi's remarks, which reflects very much, I think, in the consistent policy of China, that we understand and respect the differences between the China and OK and, of course, as extension, and other neighbors, because our neighbors are natural.
But the most important thing is that, I think, keep in mind that we have to respect each other's core interests, show sensitivities and working together to find a way for common ground despite these differences.
So it is not an easy job, but I think more consultations more substantial.
I think strategic dialogue should be conducted.
Most importantly, I think, China would.
I hope that, through IOK, the new government would learn good lessons from the episode of SAAD and properly manage new issues arising from the adult come and of the geopolitical rivalries, as we have seen.
Dr. Ren, is it possible for Seoul to become an intermediary or bridge between China and the U.S.?
?
Yes, I definitely agree with you on that, that they can be abridged, as Professor May and Professor Young have both said.
This is going to have to be the case, I think.
And so they've had to, you know, what this strategic autonomy means is that they're bifurcating.
So they're splitting the security and the economic, which is exactly the opposite of what the Americans have done.
You see, what Trump's done is he's put those together.
He's made one pillar out of economy and security.
Security, and they act in everything that's economic.
Every action is a national security action.
You know the tariffs questionable tariffs, because the Supreme Court in the United States may yet pass say that they're not legal, although I have my doubts about that.
But yes, I think Korea is in a strong position to do that.
And and this is driven in many ways because what what the US is doing is, it's also injuring the economies of its allies.
It's in many ways cannibalizing its allies' economies by demanding huge amounts of investment, by putting on the tariffs, by lowering imports and all these sorts of things.
And so it's in And it's always been, I suppose, some kind of a bridge in some way.
But you know, over the last few years under President Yoon that was that was.
You know the bridge was closed in real terms.
And Yoon was, you know, in Washington singing American Pie.
And so that's come to an end.
And I think yeah look, the first thing that Professor Yong said we need to see strategic communication that can solidify this opening of the bridge, so to speak, and thinking, you know, a joint basis for building a future, a real future that's not going to be buffeted by Donald Trump and possibly his successors.
Thank you.
We've been talking to Deepik James Ren, external relations advisor to the Royal Academy of Cambodia.
And he is also the chair of BRCP, a geopolitical risk advisory firm.
Rong Ying, chair professor at the School of International Studies at Sichuan University.
And Li Peimei, assistant professor of political science at the International Islamic University in Malaysia.
And we remind our listeners if you want to hear this episode again or to catch up on previous episodes, Just download our podcast by searching World Today.
And for further discussion, you can follow us on next CGTN Radio.
Let's take a short break here.
Coming back, we'll continue our discussion.
Please stay tuned.
Welcome back.
You're listening to World Today.
I'm Zhao Ying, joined by Rongying Chair, Professor at the School of International Studies at Sichuan University.
Li Peimei, assistant professor of political science at the International Islamic University, Malaysia.
Digby James Ren, external relations advisor to the Royal Academy of Cambodia, and he's also the chair of BRCP, a geopolitical risk advisory firm.
Professor Li, we've been discussing these high-level exchanges but, as we know, negative public perceptions still persist on both sides.
So how much impact can the summit diplomacy really have in terms of changing the hearts and minds at the grassroots level?
Well, I personally feel that it's quite difficult to shift public sentiment.
Well, I mean, meaning that it's shaped over time.
It cannot be changed just so easily.
So it will take times and efforts to shift the sentiment.
Actually on both sides.
I think the public sentiment is not so great on both sides.
Both we were viewing each other negatively.
I mean the people on both sides.
So what it actually means is that probably the recent diplomatic tour between South Korea and China is driven far more by strategic calculation among the political elites.
So it doesn't mean that this, you know, this diplomatic tour is driven by improvement in public sentiment.
But having said that, I think changing public sentiment in South Korea and China will take more time and resources.
So, for example, the media policymakers in the past, like in South Korea, they have been, you know, shaping the negative opinion about China because of what has been displayed on media, what has been, you know, what are the policies taken by the policymakers that actually they shape this narrative, anti-China narrative.
But again, This can be shaped, but not so easily.
First of all, of course, elite level engagement as a start is very good because it helps to stabilize relations and also reduce crises.
But to reshape these grassroots perceptions you need to have like, sustained cultural educational, economic exchanges.
So, for example, we talk about people to people exchanges that can be boosted uh, educational exchanges, for example, you know um, university students exchanges, scholars exchangers, economic exchanges, of course, like what we say, this china south korea free trade agreement um, could that be actually uh, that the phase two discussion can actually can it be accelerated and can it be um finalized as soon as possible?
And this all will then affect this public sentiment.
You know, I will say, like now, it's a very, very good first step where these political elites, they want to engage with each other and talking about, you know, like what earlier speaker says, President Xi says yeah, there is differences, but we shall shuff it.
It's a very pragmatic approach because I think differences between countries, like cultural uh historical, as is known, not only um between china and south korea, even between like uh, between southeast asian countries, there are differences, yeah.
So it's important that they don't focus on the differences so much, but instead they focus on which are the areas that can actually make a meaningful uh improvement in their relationship and this i i think would help.
You know, persistent efforts, you know from the elite level, media policymakers, could actually later on help to change the hearts and minds of the public.
Okay, so Professor Rong, as Professor Li said, cultural exchanges can play an important role.
And after years of limited support cultural collaboration, do you think we are entering a new phase of normalization and cultural relations between China and South Korea?
And what might that mean for artists and audiences in both countries going forward?
Well, definitely, I think we are having more sort of a better environment in which the cultural exchanges, I mean, these programs, people-to-people interactions are going to have a different uh first and foremost atmosphere and but most importantly i think uh give us uh i mean the average people the people on the street uh new exposures uh about what has taken place uh happening uh in each other i mean societal levels i try to recall i think what happened i mean that people's people interactions or the sentiments has been turned sort of bad.
It's very much, I think, because of the political relationship.
But then also, I think, the question of when people, getting know each other more, they tend to, I think, see or better understanding about the differences, which not necessarily helps have a good sort of feelings against each other.
But the sort of improving our relationship as demonstrated by the two leadership.
Definitely, first and foremost it provides a political sort of framework, But at a practical level a lot of sort of restrictions or sort of hesitations would also, I mean, lifted.
So I'm not expecting that the cooperation or exchanges in this area will come back as it was 20 years ago, where a lot of K-pops and also I think I'm trying to call the Korean TV series that are very long.
At one time, I'm trying to recall the name, it's a long TV series.
I mean, talk about an imperial physician, a lady.
I think she's just so popular.
Anyway.
We are going to have because we're living in a different time, and so the focus or the future should be the younger generations and, more importantly, I think, explore new sort of way for communications.
For example in TV I mean, excuse me, in sports areas.
Chinese and Koreans are competitors, competing almost every field.
But more and more you will find that there are some stories for, despite that, the competition, I mean sportsmen, I mean these players are getting friends, you know.
These are the stories, again, are very much important.
And so we have now, I think, opened up a new sort of, have a new environment, new atmosphere.
Hopefully, and that is why I guess the reason, one of the sort of priority areas the two governments, the two leadership put on renewed efforts for interaction, people to people and cultural exchange.
Yes, yes.
And also Dr Ren, how do you think both governments can really translate this high level momentum into some deeper people, to people understanding?
And on the other hand, might the nationalistic sentiment in both countries limit how far the leaders can actually go in rebuilding trust.
How might public opinion constrain President Lee Jae-myung's diplomatic flexibility?
Well, I mean, they're starting from a low point in Korea in real terms, but I think that actually there's a very deep well of appreciation for each country's, for China and Korea's shared cultural history and and interaction over thousands of years.
And we need to tap into that well of collective memory.
And I think it's not so deep actually.
And it can be accelerated or promoted and gain more momentum fairly quickly.
I know that I've spoken to many young Koreans and they're very interested in what China's doing.
They see lots of new things that they can experience in China culturally educationally sports entertainment media, communications all of those things.
But then culture is a very, very wide field.
I mean, it goes into fashion and beauty and all of those things.
And Korea has been very, very good at organizing itself to export its own cultural depth and capabilities.
K-pop is an obvious one and Hallyu is another, as Professor Young just talked about.
But there's much more than that, I think.
And this can work fairly quickly, I think.
And there's also economic momentum for that as well.
And I don't believe that.
Well, I believe that Professor Yong is right that the future, of course, is the young people, and that's the focus that we should mostly have.
Although, saying that, I also believe that the silver economy, you know aging population, more older people, especially in Korea, but also in China.
There's an enormous opportunity there for tourism.
I think we've already seen a spike in Korean tourists in China already.
And I think that's going to continue.
And so there's a lot of potential there.
And I believe that, because Korea introduced their policy for people-to-people exchanges and their cultural policies as a sort of a national effort, that China could actually learn something from that.
And Korea wasn't really trying to export its culture per se in terms of traditional culture.
It really was promoting youth culture and younger culture.
And it's been very, very successful.
And I think that can be a great lesson for China.
I think there's an enormous amount of opportunity there.
And in areas where Korea has become very, very strong in beauty and health, cosmetics and all sorts of things like that.
China can learn a lot about how to do that.
And so getting these people to people exchanges accelerated means opening up places in universities immediately.
Visa-free entry has already happened and other steps in these directions.
So I see a big future for that.
And it can happen fairly quickly.
I mean, really, in one election cycle, in three to four years, we can see an enormous change.
I'm pretty sure of that.
Yes.
And Dr Li.
On the economic and trade level, President Xi called for accelerating talks on the second phase of the China-South Korea FTA and exploring AI biopharmaceuticals, green industries and also what Dick Beach just said, silver economy.
So what does each side stand to gain from this partnership?
So I think, like what Dr Ren has explained, I think silver economy holds a great potential because both sides have aging populations.
And you know, instead of looking at these old people as a burden, but we can treat them as like an active consumer and they can actually their spending can actually stimulate the economy.
And this is where I think there is a great potential for cooperation between China and South Korea.
But when we talk about, I think, why is it important that accelerate talks on the second phase of the free trade agreement is because the current situation is that the narrative is that a lot of people have been talking about the globalization and self-sufficiency and you know countries turning inward, but again, you know economic history has proven that if countries actually turn inward and countries uh, tend to like dealing with one another, it's not beneficial.
The global economy actually shrink as a result of this isolation.
So what I think is that now it's really the right time to actually strengthen cooperation in different areas, like all these new areas where it's not covered in the first phase of the China-South Korea FTA.
So if they can actually deepen their cooperation in more areas, then also this kind of economic interdependence would help them to build trust, to build mutual understanding.
So I would say that, from what China could gain from this partnership, of course for China, like we say, there are things like in semiconductors, where they can learn from South Korea, in memory chips production.
South Korea is very strong in that.
So that's where or China can actually learn.
And, of course, what's important, if South Korea and China actually strengthen cooperation in the economy, it can actually help China to avoid being cut off from the key supply chain.
I think this effort to cut China out of the key supply chain is driven by the US.
But if, for example, China is able to deepen cooperation with South Korea due to the upgrade of this pre-trade agreement, which means that it's not so easy to just leave China out of key supply chains.
You know, like key supply chain, AI, key supply chain in green industries and silver economy.
All these are very important, especially AI.
We're talking about this other, our future, right?
So for South Korea, I think, of course, they can gain for most of this market access.
So China is, Of course.
It has a huge consumer market, which is very beneficial for South Korean firms, especially for biopharma.
And of course, South Korea, they produce a lot of cosmetics, medical devices.
All this will be very beneficial for South Korean firms.
So this kind of export opportunities is something that I think South Korea would want, their firms would want that, considering like what Dr Ren has explained just now.
You know South Korean economy has not been doing great in this one, two years, so in that sense I would say that both stands to gain from this partnership.
So, and I hope that at this critical moment they really could accelerate talks on, you know, on upgrading of this China South Korea FTA.
It's not only here, I think, In Southeast Asia.
Recently in Malaysia, we hosted the ASEAN Summit and where ASEAN, as a regional bloc, we also upgraded our free trade area with China.
So it's a China-ASEAN free trade area, and also between ASEAN members.
So we have this upgrading of ATIGA.
It's a framework where the purpose is to strengthen intra-trade between Southeast Asian countries, because they knew that the current situation where there are some countries that are trying to impose tariffs which are not beneficial for trade, they have to do something to counter that.
So they are talking about upgrading FTA and things like that.
Well, Professor Rong, as we know that both China and South Korea has been pushing the screen and digital transition strategy, So could the growing competition in semiconductors and EVs become a new fault line in their relationship?
Well, definitely.
I think we, both China and OK, are aware about the sort of emerging challenges arising from that kind of competition.
But again, I would refer to the previous, I mean, Professor May's remarks that the two countries would have to look at the overall, the bigger picture and so that the trade and the new investment, that they're having new thinkings or new ways, new approach to manage that competition.
And also keep in mind the third sort of country or third country factors.
I mean, the disruption or interaction around that.
That is why I think it's significant that at the meeting the summit meeting, I mean the visit, during the visit the two leaders, or the two sides, pledged that they would accelerate the process.
I'm trying to recall the first phase of the free trade agreement, agreement which I think started.
I mean it took just one year and a half to conclude that negotiations.
It started, launched in 2012, May 2012, and then concluded.
I mean by end of, I mean one year and a half.
And also, of course, the agreement was announced at the Beijing APEC summit.
So there are a lot of significance and symbolism related to that, given the fact that both China and ROK advocate for free trade and trade liberalization.
So even though I think we have now new challenges and so on and so forth.
Let us hope, and I think the two sides, as they negotiate their or upgrade their free trade agreement, they would also keeping in mind the development at the regional levels, as again the two previous speakers and all mentioned about RCEPs, about the other regional sort of trade sort of agreement, and also emerging areas.
I mean emerging sectors, digital trade, green development and so on and so forth.
So it's more a kind of thinking where to balance, I think, to the immediate concerns which I think can be taught, I mean addressed through peaceful, I mean through talks based on mutual understanding and equality.
But in the meantime, the longer term benefits and the trend where both China and OK would feel that serve their interest if the momentum of free trade, regional trade or trade free trade I mean in the region, APEC would be continued, vis-à-vis the other trend or other sort of development with the tariff wars by the United States I mean Trump administration and so on.
Okay.
Well, Dr. Ren, I think we discussed earlier South Korea's desire to re-engage with the North.
So do you think the improved China-South Korea relations can open a diplomatic pathway towards inter-Korean dialogue?
Well, that would be a very good outcome, wouldn't it?
Because the fact that North Korea is economically in many ways isolated is holding back all of Northeast Asia.
I know that extending the Pan-Asian or Eurasian rail networks into South Korea is back on the table.
And I think that's a very, very good idea.
And that rail network would theoretically have to also pass by North Korea.
And I think that's an opportunity.
Also, why can't North Korea be invited to participate as an observer at least, into these regional frameworks, economic frameworks?
Next year, we've got APEC, of course.
There's the opportunity with RCEP to establish the secretariat for the RCEP.
That has not been done.
I think that's something that South Korea and China China can work on, and North Korea needs to be, I think, invited into these kind of things.
It's already making some economic advances.
North Korea is not like it was before.
It is improving and it can go a lot further.
And so, yes, the answer is yes.
Of course, the US is not going to like that, but you know it's what you might call.
You know discordant noise what, what the Americans are doing?
You know they, they absolutely don't want that to happen.
Well, you know Trump wants to speak, you know wanted to speak and he made a lot of noise about trying to speak with Kim Jong-un, but obviously that didn't work out.
So there's there's definitely an intention, I think, on all parties in the region to get closer with North Korea to see what can be done, and this may provide a small opportunity.
That's definitely true that the new president of Korea Lee, is um, is softer, if you like.
And so there's potential there to reopen the uh.
You know they used to have a sort of a shared uh manufacturing zone which was destroyed, you know, during the June or just before June.
Um, I think that that's something that might be started again.
Um, and and then again for China, of course there's also access, and even for Russia, I think, also um.
Whether the Japanese will be interested in that is another question, that that could be difficult.
But yes, the short answer is yes, there is opportunity there.
It will take a lot of work.
I think that'll have to be done very quietly.
I don't think that can be sort of done in a loud way.
That's got to be done very quietly and steadily.
But I think that is possible, definitely.
Okay.
So, Professor Rohn, what role do you think China can really play on the Korean Peninsula issue?
Well again, I think China has always been advocating and indeed play a very important role in terms of bringing peace and stability and prosperity on the peninsula.
For to do that, of course, if you look at the past 20 years and more of China's diplomacy, very creative, proactive, and of course also suffered some in terms of because of the denuclearization, mostly because of, I think, the shifts or the changes of U.S. policy towards North Korea and the region as a whole.
And I'm trying to be sort of more optimistic echoing, I mean, what my colleagues friends, good friends has talked about, the opportunities that I mean arriving from what I've been talking about in terms of regional economic cooperation and integration, or this framework which I think would not be possible or sustainable without, I mean, some forms of engagement with DPRK, even though I think that expectation or that thinking has been there for many years, but then also a lot of setbacks.
We may have to really think about, I mean, the impact of the meeting, certainly, and China and DPRK.
But in the meantime, we have also I mean, we don't have time for this session, for this dialogue but about what is happening in Pingyang and in the northern part of the peninsula in terms of their economic policies or economic sort of thinkings arising from the changes and the transformation that we are talking about.
That would possibly give us some new thinking or new hope that it may be possible, even though in a different way.
Well, professor lee, one last question if this stall of china south korea relations succeeds, could it become a template for how other us allies or other middle powers manage their relations with china in an era of great power competition?
Well, i think, if it is successful, it can definitely offer some very useful lessons for other us allies.
But I don't think it can be like a strict template because the dynamics between countries are very different.
I think they can offer some valuable lessons, but not a rigid template.
And first of all, at this point, as we are discussing the relations between South Korea and China, We weren't even sure if the tour would be successful.
This is because, not because of China, not because it's Korea, but because of the US.
If you look at the US, they have been increasingly pressuring countries to actually align with it.
For example, I find it quite weird that on one hand, the US are having trade discussions with China.
You know Trump was saying that oh, they had a great deal, and things like that.
And then they are going to lower tariff and then China is going to buy a lot of agricultural product from the US.
But on the other hand, you see, there are other US agencies that actually went to Southeast Asia and they talked to the leaders about, you know, the importance of increasing their military expenditure to counter China.
So I find that there is a bit of inconsistency in what the U.S. is doing.
And this would actually affect the relations with China and South Korea.
So it could be useful overall if it's successful.
But again, at present, we're unsure if it will be successful or not.
Okay, thank you.
Thank you, Li Peimei.
Assistant Professor of Political Science at the International Islamic University, Malaysia.
Rong Ying, Chair Professor at the School of International Studies at Sichuan University.
And Digby James Ren, External Relations Advisor to the Royal Academy of Cambodia.
And he is also the Chair of BRCP, a geopolitical risk advisory firm.
And that's all the time we have for this edition of World Today.
I'm Zhao Ying.
Thank you so much for listening.
See you next time.
