This is an All Ears English podcast, episode 1537, Business English and Bunnies.
What do they have in common?
Welcome to the All Ears English podcast, downloaded more than 200 million times.
Are you feeling stuck with your English?
We'll show you how to become Fearless and fluent by focusing on connection, not perfection.
With your American hosts Lindsay McMahon, the English adventurer, and Michelle Kaplan, the New York radio girl.
Coming to you from Colorado and New York City, USA.
And to get real-time transcripts right on your phone and create your personalized vocabulary list, try our iOS app.
Start your seven-day free trial at allearsenglish.com forward slash bonuses.
Do you ever find yourself going down the rabbit hole in business online or in a store?
Today, we answer a question from a listener about what this term means and how to use it.
Do you ever feel like your English is good but not quite where you want it to be?
Maybe you can have conversations, but you still hesitate when expressing complex ideas.
Maybe you know what you want to say. but you can't always say it naturally.
If that sounds familiar, our B2 English fluency course was designed for you.
You'll learn how to speak more naturally, express yourself with confidence and finally stop feeling stuck at the intermediate level.
This week, you can save $50 on our basic plan or save $100 on our personal coach plan.
Go to allearsenglish.com slash B2.
That's allearsenglish.com slash letter B number two.
Hello, Lindsay.
How are you?
Hey, Michelle.
I'm doing great.
I'm excited for today's episode because we're talking about rabbits, bunny rabbits.
I had a bunny, by the way, when I was a kid.
Really?
Did you ever have a bunny rabbit?
I didn't, but my son sleeps with a bunny.
Yeah, my rabbit.
Unfortunately, my rabbit ran away when I was a kid.
It was so sad.
It was so sad.
Oh, that's too bad.
I bet.
Was that very traumatic for you?
It was, you know, these traumas.
Yeah, it was.
It's okay.
That's okay.
So we're talking about more specifically, right, about rabbit holes.
I mean, not just rabbits, but rabbit holes.
Exactly.
Because we got a listener question from Miho asking about this idiom in English.
So we're going to talk about that today.
Right, Lindsay?
Yeah.
Did she ask this on our Instagram channel or where did this come from?
I'm trying to remember.
I don't know.
I think it was...
I think maybe you sent it to me, but I'm not sure.
Well, guys, remember, we do have an Instagram channel.
Make sure you go to Instagram and search for All Ears English.
Find the yellow and follow us over there because it is a happening place to be.
It sure is.
It sure is.
So, Lindsay, do you want to read Miho's question for us?
Yeah.
So she says.
Recently I heard the idiom go down the rabbit hole on a lot of podcasts about sustainable lifestyles.
I think it's the podcaster's personal style, but she often says before we go down the rabbit hole, let's go back to the topic.
Is it common to say this term?
I also found this article and I find it quite interesting.
So we're going to leave a link to the article that she told us about, guys, in this blog post.
Okay.
Yeah, that's a great question, isn't it exactly exactly.
So yeah, we're gonna talk about this in just a second, but I'm excited for this.
But before we do that guys, if you haven't yet Tsk tsk, tsk.
It's important.
No, it's important to hit subscribe now.
Wherever you are listening to the All Ears English podcast, wherever you listen to us, definitely make sure you take a second and hit the subscribe now button, because you don't want to miss anything.
We do bonuses.
We do tons of things.
So you don't want to miss it.
Well, it's true.
And also, if you don't hit subscribe, you can't go down the rabbit hole with All Ears English, because it's only when you're subscribed that they show you.
I'm pretty sure most of the apps.
They only show you all the episodes available to you when you hit subscribe.
So you'll be missing a lot of our episodes if you are not subscribed, as far as I know.
So hit subscribe and go down the rabbit hole.
Michelle.
We have had a lot of students who will find our show and they get really excited and they really go down the rabbit hole with All Ears English.
They go in the back catalog, the back archives, and they listen to a lot of episodes all at once.
It's pretty cool.
Exactly.
That's awesome.
I love it.
Yeah.
So guys, yeah, let's get into this topic.
So yeah, Miho also put up this link.
It gave us this link and it talks about more about the history of it.
So definitely something interesting to check out.
So, I mean, there are a few different ways that this phrase is used.
And we're going to talk about one major way today.
First of all, Lindy, do you say this?
Go down the rabbit hole?
Oh, yeah.
You better believe I do, Michelle.
Oh, my gosh.
So I'm one of these people that I kind of obsess over topics.
When I want to learn about something, I go pretty far down the rabbit hole.
Right now I'm trying to learn about SEO search engine optimization and I'm really going down the rabbit hole.
And I enjoy it in a weird way.
It's kind of fun to obsess over something.
And learn everything you can about something.
But it's also kind of awful when you're trying to oversee a lot of things.
You can't go down a rabbit hole too much.
You have to stay kind of stay very broad.
So I struggle with the rabbit holes.
I fall into them a lot.
Yeah.
I mean, so so what is that?
So it sounds like you're an expert.
So what does it mean?
Yeah, an expert.
Exactly.
So to become basically?
It is that to become kind of an expert in something, to really learn something in great depth, to go very deep into something, some topic, some hobby.
Maybe you're researching something online and you go really far down.
Right, right, right.
So maybe you're talking about something like a lot, or maybe like like you ever have like, I mean, I'm trying to think of our meetings if we go down rabbit holes.
I don't know.
Not too much.
I think.
We try not to.
I don't think so too much.
But you know, I think people sometimes at meetings it's like kind of famous that you start talking about one thing and then you get deeper and deeper and then like oh yeah, it's two hours later.
Well, that's why I think this is so important for our listeners to know.
If they're in the business world, they need to know this idiom right.
To say, I don't want to go down the rabbit hole too much on this, right?
That this would be very useful.
And I think today we're not quite getting into it as much right in the business context, but it's really useful in business English guys.
So just keep that in mind.
Yeah, for sure.
And you know what we did do an IELTS episode, talking about this a little bit.
So that's actually IELTS energy 849.
And it's called go down today's rabbit hole with IELTS vocabulary.
So you want to listen for more about the rabbit hole on that episode.
Yeah, and you have to.
When you're preparing for an exam, you honestly have to go down the rabbit hole of that exam, right?
But you have to do it in a systematic way, in a smart way.
Right, right, right.
Exactly.
Yeah, no, that's true.
I mean Lindsay.
I mean let's talk about some things that can lead you down a rabbit hole, like when it might be used right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, YouTube is the first thing I thought of.
Yeah, for sure Michelle, because the algorithm in YouTube is designed to send you down that rabbit hole, for better or for worse.
Yeah.
Right.
Right.
Right, right, right, right.
Exactly.
So you can be watching one video and then it tells you the next one to watch and the next one to watch.
And then it's like four in the morning.
Yeah.
What happened?
But yeah.
And also I mean just kind of in a like, I guess in a more realistic light this is, you know, I mean our listeners probably heard about the capital riots that we had.
Right.
And that we have we have an issue right now with domestic terrorism.
Right.
I'm sorry to take this in that direction, but I do think it applies here.
A lot of people end up getting kind of radicalized along the lines of terrorism becoming domestic terrorists, and nationalism through YouTube, through these videos that show them kind of fake news.
And they just go down and down and down further and further and they become radicalized.
It's kind of crazy when you think about it.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
With all the like information that is not real, you know, and there's a lot of opportunities for people to go down the rabbit hole and to get like more and more angry about something.
And, you know, and then certain things happen that really shouldn't happen.
So yeah, that can be it can be dangerous on social media, YouTube.
So one thing leads to the next.
Yeah.
I mean, it's a hot topic.
We don't have time to go into it today, but maybe another day.
What is the responsibility of these platforms?
Right.
Oh, that is a hot topic.
It's a hot topic.
It's all over the news right now.
But yeah, we'll see.
Maybe another day we'll talk about that if our listeners are interested.
Guys, let us know if you want us to go into that topic.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's a big one.
So, yeah.
I mean.
An example of how you might use this is oh, I was looking for videos on English slang when I found myself down the rabbit hole and I went to sleep at 3 am.
Yeah, there's definitely a whole rabbit hole for ESL too.
And we're in there too, guys.
You can find us on YouTube.
We do publish some of our videos these days on YouTube, which is exciting.
That's something new for us.
So guys, you can check that out over there if you want to.
Okay.
Guys, hit subscribe now wherever you listen to the show.
Why?
Because you don't want to be left behind when new opportunities come up with All Ears English, like live web classes hangouts, new courses and so much more.
So please go ahead and hit subscribe now.
And thanks for listening to All Ears English.
Don't you hate it when you're trying to buy something online and when you finally make all of your selections and get ready to check out, your credit card is nowhere to be found.
When this happens, I love seeing the purple pay button at the top of the checkout, because I know I won't have to dig for my card.
This simple purple button is one of the best features in all of the online shopping world and can make a huge difference in sales for your online business.
Shopify is the e-commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10 of all e-commerce in the US.
From household names like Skims and Thrive Cosmetics to brands just getting started.
Get the word out like you have a marketing team behind you.
Easily create email and social media campaigns wherever your customers are scrolling or strolling.
Best yet.
Shopify is your e-commerce expert, with world-class expertise in everything from managing inventory to international shipping, to processing returns and beyond.
See fewer carts go abandoned and more sales go... with Shopify and their Shop Pay button.
Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at Shopify.com slash A-E-E.
Go to Shopify.com slash A-E-E.
That's S-H-O-P-I-F-Y.com slash A-E-E.
So talking points at a meeting, Michelle, is another way.
Right.
And we touched on the business English part.
Right.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Right.
So you're talking about something, about a meeting, and then you know you, it might be something that like, it's on the agenda.
Yeah.
Right.
Maybe it's on the agenda and you want to touch on it a little bit, but it's like one of many things.
And then somehow people get way too deep into it.
Yes.
Yeah.
And then I think it's common to be like, well, you kind of have to rein it in.
Like, whoa, I didn't mean to talk about it for 10 years.
Yeah.
That's a great phrase too for our listeners today.
Rain it in.
Yeah, really, really good.
Guys, rain it in.
Don't let it go out of your control.
Don't let it spiral down.
And this is important, especially in meetings that are summarizing.
We had a meeting at the beginning of the year where we summarized 2020 and we previewed 2021.
Mm-hmm.
And there were a billion rabbit holes that I would have loved to go down with our team, but we just couldn't do it.
We didn't have the time in that moment.
So that's when those things happen, unfortunately.
Yeah.
Exactly.
So yeah, something you might say in a meeting is well, that's a good point, but I don't think we should go down that rabbit hole just yet.
We have way too much to get to first.
Yeah, exactly, guys.
So use this at work.
Definitely use this at work.
Yes, absolutely.
And what's another one, Lindsay?
So when you're shopping Target Costco, is this in-person shopping Michelle, that we're talking about here?
Or maybe not.
Maybe more online.
I guess both.
But yeah, I guess I was thinking of in-person shopping.
Okay.
So there's a rabbit hole, right?
If you're always, you're just going in for one thing and you probably come out with.
I mean, that's why that's the Costco effect, right.
It's famous.
Yeah.
I guess they study this in business school, where you know the, you know you're familiar with that right.
Michelle, the Costco effect.
No, I haven't heard of that specifically.
So I guess that they put, like the things that you the essentials, at the very back of the store so that you have to pass all the other things first.
And they also rearrange things in Costco a lot.
So they move things around.
So you have to like find your way again and again.
So you bump into other things.
Yeah.
So that's really funny.
I mean yeah, this is a rabbit hole in a way.
I think you know like how you can stop at these stores.
I mean you always see memes and people talking about like oh, what they meant to get and then what they actually got, because it's kind of like a rabbit hole, like a physical shopping rabbit hole.
Definitely.
And in the US, back in the 90s, the whole concept of the 99 cent store was a big deal, right?
The 99 cent store where you'd go in, it's just a dollar.
It's not even a dollar.
But then you come out with all these things you don't need.
And that's kind of a rabbit hole in itself, isn't it?
Right, right, right.
Exactly.
So what's something that you can use in terms of shopping?
So in terms of shopping, we could say I stopped in for some Windex and then I went down the rabbit hole and I came out with 300 less to my name, meaning you spent 300.
Yes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So to say to my name, like money to my name, it's like the money that you have.
Yes.
I love it.
Yeah, exactly.
So I think it's pretty easy to do that in stores like Target and Costco, unfortunately.
Yeah, because things are relatively low cost.
Right.
And it doesn't feel like that big of a deal to add something more to your cart for $4.99.
You just throw it in.
But then you come out and you've got, you know, yeah, $300 worth of items for the home.
Did you need them?
Yeah.
No, it's true.
Sometimes it's amazing to me, like how quickly the money adds up.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, we do live in like, you know, American culture is so consumer focused, right?
Like, man, I don't know.
I wonder if this is cultural too, you know?
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Exactly.
So we have another concept that I think that we'll save for another time.
Yeah.
Doom scrolling.
Yeah.
Okay.
Just to give you guys a teaser.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But yeah, I mean, I mean, Lindsay, what tips do we have about rabbit holes for our listeners?
Well, tear yourself away.
Another good idiom expression to tear yourself away is don't let yourself do that.
Don't let yourself go down that rabbit hole, whether you're at a store or you're on YouTube like, just try to limit it.
It's true.
I mean, if we don't be careful, if we're not careful, we could be online Googling things all day and we have to get things done.
Right, right, right.
Yeah.
So maybe you need to, whether it's putting a time limit, like actually having a timer for something or wherever it is to, or telling a friend like hey, call me at this time, or you know whatever, like kind of having an accountability partner in that way.
That can be useful.
I mean, and the other thing is just find something else to do.
So, like for me, playing chess, doing a crossword or calling a friend, you know when you are down that rabbit hole.
I mean, even if you're in a Target and you're shopping for a bunch of things, be like oh, maybe I need to call my friend and tell and have them convince me to get out of here.
Yeah.
I find that social connection is probably As human beings.
I think the need for social connection is going to trump the need for consumption or whatever.
It is scarcity mindset that we have when we're in that store and going down that rabbit hole.
So going to connection is definitely a good plan, I think for sure.
Yeah, exactly.
And then the last one is too and this is I struggle with this to try and keep your phone out of your room at night, because I think it's very common to go down rabbit holes at night.
For sure, that's when you can see the holes the best.
For sure no, it's true michelle, you're right.
I definitely read the new york times before bed and i shouldn't do it.
I shouldn't do it.
Yeah oh, and everything i read about sleep.
It's like don't know your phone, don't have it, don't have it, and i'm like i can't, like i don't think i'm capable, like i think you'd have to rip it from my hand.
I know we know better, but we just do it anyways.
I don't know what the answer to that is, Michelle.
I'm sure our listeners struggle with that too.
I'm sure they do.
It's a human thing.
I'm sure.
I think so.
I think so.
So yeah, I mean again, thank you to miho for this question.
This was a really good one and guys definitely, like we said, listen to that ielts episode about this as well and uh, find out some of the history um, with this expression and miho's link.
So this has been fun, lindsey.
What's the takeaway for today?
Yeah, guys.
I mean, like I said, try this out as well.
In addition to what Michelle said, try this out in the business world, right?
If you want to maintain the idea of staying above the rabbit holes, don't fall into them.
Say that, articulate that to your colleagues when it matters, when it's important, okay?
That's really important to getting a lot of things done, especially if you're operating at a high level in your organization.
You can't go down these rabbit holes.
You have to be general and broad, I think.
Right, Michelle?
Absolutely.
Yeah, I completely agree.
I think that's good advice.
So yeah, this was a great episode.
Thank you so much again to Miho.
And guys, remember to hit subscribe wherever you're listening to this podcast, so you never miss anything.
Anything from All Ears English.
Awesome.
Sounds good, Michelle.
I'll talk to you soon.
Take care.
Bye.
Thanks for listening to all ears English.
Would you like to know your English level?
Take our two minute quiz.
Go to allearsenglish.com forward slash fluency score.
And if you believe in connection, not perfection, then hit subscribe now to make sure you don't miss anything.
See you next time.
