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Adventure on the edge.
Hey everybody, this is the last episode of our season called Stepping Up.
We're releasing it on Election Day 2024.
And this particular election has been more stressful than most.
And that stress has a way of bringing out the worst in us.
And at times, it seems like it's tearing us apart.
The climate that we're operating under has everyone on the defensive.
You see a person and you automatically put them in a box and say, well, this is what this person should be like.
All this ostracizing people, what are we afraid of?
So StoryCorps does a lot of different things.
But it's really all about connecting people.
Whether it's the participants in the interview or someone even just listening on the radio or this podcast.
And the thing that makes it possible to connect, even if it's a total stranger you're listening to, is that at StoryCorps, people talk about the very things that make us human.
We're called to love one another.
It can't be, I reject you as a person.
It was important for me to meet somebody who really didn't have horns and a tail.
The voices you're hearing are participants in our One Small Step program, where we pair strangers with opposing political views to have a conversation.
Not about politics, but just about their lives.
This country's been through so much.
Its people has been through so much.
Why can't we fix this?
Do we have issues we have to deal with?
Yes, we do. But we're not gonna be able to deal with them if we're fighting and yelling at each other and not listening.
So as you can imagine, it takes a certain amount of courage to sign up for one of these interviews.
And when it comes time to sit face -to -face, it can be downright nerve -wracking.
I've been shy all my life.
I have terrible anxiety.
And I just see this effort as so important.
So even as my hands are clammy, and my face is turning bright red like a tomato, I'm gonna push through because this matters more to me than my discomfort.
I'm Jasmine Morris.
And I'm Michael Garofalo.
It's the StoryCorps podcast from NPR.
Okay, so we're gonna spend this episode with just one pair of participants.
Leanne and Erin. You actually just heard Leanne talking about how nervous she was going into the interview.
She lives in Wisconsin, where she works as a therapist.
She describes herself as liberal and a social justice advocate.
Her interview partner was Erin, who lives in Virginia.
She works for a prominent nonprofit that lobbies for many issues, like deregulating business, increasing funding for police, and limiting government.
So I grew up in southern Indiana in a place that had one stop sign.
It was very country, very rural.
So most of my time on track tours and four -wheelers and fishing and playing in the creek.
They did their interview using One Small Step Connect, which is an online platform that lets people do remote interviews, no matter where in the country they live.
So even though they're not together, they can still see each other on the screen as they talk.
And pretty early on in their conversation, Leanne and Erin realized that they shared something.
Something pretty close to the heart.
Erin revealed that she was a widow.
And here's how Leanne responded.
My dad passed away in 2020, which was devastating.
He had Parkinson's disease and suffered for a long, long time with that.
I'm still very much affected by that loss.
There is nothing like a loss of a parent.
So just sending you so much love and glitter right back at you.
Yeah, I'm sorry to hear that you lost your husband.
I mean losing a parent is one thing you expect to lose your parents.
You don't expect to lose a husband.
Do you want to tell me a little bit about him?
Yeah. He was a very kind, Southern man.
He was very much that guy who would take your grandma to church on Sunday and then go buy her lemonade.
That was what he was like.
A wonderful soul. Amazing dad.
June 6th, 2021, he woke up with one leg swollen twice the size of the other.
Took him to the ER and they found cancer cells.
And 11 weeks later, not but four weeks after we finally got married, he passed away.
So I was a newlywed and a widow at the same time.
I'm so sorry. His birthday was just a couple of weeks ago.
I actually didn't cry like as much as I thought I would.
So I guess today I'm going to cry.
What's your husband's first name?
It was Christopher.
I feel really lucky and fortunate, but I get a chance to sort of meet Christopher through you.
I have a tattoo. It is a note from him and his signature.
I have a tattoo for my dad in the same place.
I love it. Before he passed away, he talked to me about what he wanted for me in the future.
And he wanted someone who would love me for me and give me the respect I deserve and who would understand me as a person.
And lo and behold, less than a year after he passed away, a man walked into my life in a Scottish kilt with this big metal beard, shaved head.
And we got engaged this May.
So, Erin, what's something that you will take away from this experience?
People have more in common than they ever really want to believe.
You just have to understand the person's perspective.
And be brave. Brave enough to ask and brave enough to look.
I am coming away with a much needed sense of hope.
And that's a powerful shift to be coming away from this with because certainly in the last couple years, it has not felt very hopeful.
I know we are so close to time.
But is there a way we can connect after this?
Yeah. Who makes friends with people across the country when they're 40?
That's very hard to do.
OK, how do we exchange information?
Because I definitely love.
This actually happens quite a lot in these conversations.
Again and again, we hear about participants staying in touch, getting together for coffee, having dinner at each other's houses.
Here's Erin. It was very cathartic for me.
Most of my days I saw people who think they know me because of my job or because of a widow or whatever it might be.
So it was really nice to have someone who got to know me without all the qualifiers.
But then things got complicated.
So after the first conversation, Leanne and I, we text off and on to check in with each other.
And then I received an email from her and I felt like I'd been punched in the gut.
After the break, we'll find out what that email said.
Stay with us. Thank you.
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The email began very casual.
Hi, Erin. I wanted to write as a follow up to our conversation last Friday.
It was a great experience and I'd like to say I don't regret it.
However, I had a rough weekend.
I was so excited to report back to friends and family how the conversation went.
I messaged a close friend.
We've known each other since middle school.
My friend is very knowledgeable and passionate about political causes which are very close to her heart, including LGBTQ, women's rights, public safety issues.
I was happy to report to her that I came away from our conversation feeling like I'd made a new friend, which is rare and thus very precious to me.
I even told her that you, Erin, have a heart like my dad, which is, in my opinion, the best kind of heart to have.
The response I got from my childhood friend was a deluge of vitriol.
And I experienced shame like I never had experienced.
So, Leanne didn't want to read her friend's messages on tape out of respect for their friendship, so we're going to respect that too.
But we'll just tell you she made a lot of assumptions about Erin based on her job.
For example, she assumed that Erin voted for Trump, which she didn't.
She assumed that she was anti -LGBTQ, but Erin actually describes herself as an ally and has a daughter who's part of the community.
And that Erin's motivation for participating was a publicity stunt, and that Leanne had been duped.
Here's more of that email to Erin.
So basically what I can now take away from my conversation with my friend is that she thinks I am an uninformed, gullible, soft -hearted rube.
I was left questioning what difference any of this really makes when it comes down to it.
Are we as a country just broken beyond repair?
Do we even want to hear one another?
Do we even want to work together?
As for why I'm writing this email, I don't know.
To tell the rest of the story from my end, I suppose, to not have to sit alone with this portion of it that feels so deeply painful and disenchanting.
Probably in hopes of continuing to seek to understand and create connections somehow, desperately.
To keep a friend, I hope.
Though now it feels like maybe I've lost two.
It seemed like in trying to cross one divide, Erin and Leanne found themselves at another, so they wanted to sit down for a second conversation.
It really was heartbreaking.
I can feel it even now.
And trying to reconcile this is very, very difficult on a personal level because without them, I feel like I'd be missing a part of my identity.
And that hurts. That really hurts.
So I wanted to just kind of spill my guts and tell you everything in a desperate effort to hopefully feel heard and understood.
And that's pretty much where I've been since.
Can I just tell you that I'm sorry you feel that way?
I understand how that feels to have someone tell you that and be someone you care about and have a lifetime of investment in.
I was really sad when I read that because I felt like an instant connection with you.
So I was just like, I feel bad for my friend.
I just wanted so desperately to say the right thing to make you understand that.
I think you have a really kind heart.
Thank you. And while those things were said, I'm not my job.
I work a lot of hours, but I am Logan and Connor, Brooklyn's mom.
I am Christopher's widow.
I am Shawn's soon -to -be wife, Cecilia and Kent's daughter.
I just want to be your friend, the person who you can come talk to and trust that I'm not going to like judge you because I ain't got time for that.
And I believe that too.
And that wasn't my goal at all to put more negativity out there.
Like I said, when I wrote you too, that I did feel kind of defeated.
I actually adored you for it.
It was brave to trust somebody and to be able to come to them with your feelings and your emotions and just put out there and just kind of say, this is what it is.
What do you think? So for me, I really do think you're a brave person.
I don't know if that's true or not, but I do know to even try something like this to begin with was something that I had to dig deep for.
So I think that's what was so disappointing to you is because I felt like my ability to connect with you was being undermined and judged.
But it doesn't change me really wanting to get to know more about you and really more about your job and how you got there.
I would definitely like to have deeper conversations about your background and to find out how you became who you are.
I'm an open book and I'm not afraid.
We'll get there. Good.
Thank you. Lian and Erin didn't give up on each other and they had the courage to keep their conversation going, but not just their conversation.
After speaking with Erin, Lian felt confident enough to pick up the thread with her childhood friend.
So I reached out to my friend today.
And what I didn't know is that, you know, after she had expressed herself, she had been feeling really bad.
She didn't mean to take the wind out of my sails in any way, shape or form.
So it was a great conversation.
And this is more than I could have hoped would come from it.
That's all for this season.
And the last question of this season is, what's a moment when you realized you were totally wrong about someone?
Tell us that story in a voicemail at 702 -706 -TALK.
The number again is 702 -706 -TALK.
Or you can always email us at podcast at storycore .org.
This episode was produced by Carrie Hillman.
Max Young -Rice is our producer and Judd Esti Kendall is our senior producer.
Our technical director is Jaret Floyd and our executive producer is Amy Drosdowska.
Our fact checker is Katie Scott.
The art for this season was created by Liz McCarty.
And special thanks to StoryCorps facilitator Stephanie Glaros.
I'm Jasmine Morris.
And I'm Michael Garofalo.
Thanks for listening.
