do you're not afraid to share ideas?
No, I'm super afraid to share ideas.
But that's I mean, one of my ideas that I'm actively exploring.
And here I am sharing it with everyone here.
We should address the elephant in the room.
Why are we on why we're on a plane?
We're just flexing on everybody.
This is my Tai Lopez.
Hey, guys, I'm just on my jet.
So it's not that. Yeah, so this plane, it's a Citation CJ3+.
And I fly planes for fun, so it's been my passion and my hobby.
I think since even elementary school I was obsessed with airplanes and it was always my goal to be able to afford to fly one.
And then I learned, I interviewed a bunch of very wealthy people and I said how do you afford an airplane, like how successful do you have to be?
And the secret was you don't have to be that successful, you just have to have a big tax bill and good cash flow.
And so - Which takes success to get to that point.
It takes some success.
Less than you think.
A lot less than you think actually, because it's like a house, you could finance it, put 20 % down, and then the rest is - We'll walk through that in a second.
So, the funny thing was we did an episode, a normal episode where we're on Zoom and it was great.
You can go see it, it's called like just my, like high school dropout.
We YouTubed it. You said make the title good.
I don't know, 300, 400 thousand people have listened to that interview across all the platforms. And I wanted to do a second one and you were like, hey, I'm in town, if you can kind of meet me here.
I was like, all right, let's go, I'll meet you there.
And the second thing is you're actually great with tax tax tax.
And you're better than my accountant who I pay.
I pay this guy to be like, hey, come up with ideas that I can lower my tax bill legally but how can I do it?
what are the ideas, and he's an idea pourer.
You're very idea -rich, and so I thought it's kind of fitting because one of the things we'll talk about at the end is you've talked to a lot of rich people and tried to learn what are the options, what are the possibilities as far as taxes goes?
And that's, I wanna learn that from you.
Yeah, I mean, we'll talk about that as it relates to business ideas, but as it relates to tax ideas, it's actually a pretty similar process.
I'll just talk to as many people as possible, and I think the mistake people make with taxes is they have their one tax person and that person worked with their parents and they've been loyal.
But actually this is a very bad place to have loyalty.
It's really good to talk to, I've talked to dozens of tax - promiscuous.
You want to be very promiscuous here.
I've talked to dozens of tax attorneys and tax accountants about their ideas and I just keep track of all their ideas.
And then I talked to all my friends, ask them for their tax ideas and consolidate it.
That's so true, there's like this weird loyalty.
It's like, yeah he's been doing my taxes for four years.
Like bam, but nothing has changed and you want to get ideas from everybody.
So, let's do this plane real quick.
So a plane like this, what does it cost roughly?
What do you have to put down and what is the tax savings or something?
There's the mini tax lesson for this plane.
Yeah, mini tax lesson, and then we go into more detail on this on the last episode I did with you guys, but this is a $12 million plus airplane, and you could put 20 % down on the airplane, I got this preowned, so I saved a few million bucks, and it's just good as new.
So you put down roughly two million bucks?
You put down about a few million bucks and then you just pay monthly financing on it.
But then you get to write off up to the whole thing.
Last year, it was 60 % upfront, but now with the new administration, it looks like accelerated depreciation is back.
So if you bought a $12 million airplane, financed it, you can write off the whole $12 million off your tax bill, even though you only put in three million bucks.
So you're gonna pay the government or you could buy an airplane.
So it looks ridiculous.
$3 million is going out of your bank account.
Either way, the money's leaving your bank account.
So like, it looks lavish, it looks ridiculous, but this is why rich people do these things.
And I just wanted to debunk that.
I feel like a lot of people are scared to admit that, they don't wanna share that, because they wanna flex more, they wanna show off, but it's just a practical matter.
And you use it to literally be more efficient and go meet people where otherwise you might not have taken that day trip to go do it.
Like you came up, you're like, I want to have lunch with you." And so you flew up, we had lunch and you flew out.
And I was like, wow.
First I felt honored, but secondly, man, there's probably a lot of people that I think I would have kind of amazing opportunities or build a relationship with, but I don't do it because the logistics are actually kind of the way.
Of course, this is not accessible to most people.
But if you're in that successful entrepreneur bucket, it kind of makes sense logistically as well.
It does, yeah. And you know, we've got Starlink on board. So flying out here, I say I want to make five phone calls be on Zoom and do FaceTime video, where I'm like, yo, what's up?
And like, it's it's a practical matter of saving money, but it looks really bad.
If you're an operating CEO of a company, you're going to get shot on by your employees, your customers, your investors.
And I realize that that would be a problem for me a few years ago.
So that's why I stopped being an operating CEO, actually.
It was really I had this conflict of like, can I do everything I want to do?
And I know it's the right thing to do.
I know I will create more abundance.
I'll create more value for my companies.
But at the same time, I know I'm gonna get more flack.
I wanna have more people who wanna rip on me, unfortunately.
And I'm sure this video will not help with that at all, but I defend it.
It's like a practical matter.
Right, I love that.
Unapologetic. So enough about the private jet.
That's cool. It's gonna make for a great great job.
First time for the podcast. What I wanna talk to you about is what you're great at, which is ideas and coming up with new ideas for businesses.
So the track record here is, you've been an operating CEO. You started this company called Intinera when you were really young, right?
How old were you when you started that?
I was 19 when I started it, I knew absolutely nothing.
Yeah, and then I built that company up and then started a bunch of other companies.
Several of them are nine figure valuation businesses.
I have no unicorns under my belt, so that's a big insecurity of mine right now.
I'm gonna be super honest about it.
Like I don't have a single unicorn, But if you add them all up, I've got multiple unicorns.
So that became my strategy.
I decided I'm really not good at building unicorns, but I'm really good at coming up with smaller businesses.
A barn full of horses.
Yeah, a barn full of horses where I create more.
I think we just coined something there, by the way.
That was all you. Good work.
But yeah, if I could just raise less VC money for these companies and just create more of them and not be directly operating of them, then that could add up to being just as valuable, if not more valuable, than if I created one unicorn.
Not to mention all my friends who are CEOs of unicorns.
Miserable? So miserable and so stressed out, and also they don't have the ability to live an amazing lifestyle because of all the stuff we talked about.
They're scared of the optics and they own a much smaller percentage of these businesses.
Like a lot of my unicorn CEO friends, they own like five percent of a billion -dollar company which is a remarkable amount of money.
That's a lot but, you know.
Yeah, totally. I'm in it for the lifestyle, not the uh - You just have to decide what you're in it for, just be honest about that.
And there's other people who are in it for the impact.
That's dope. They should do that, they should save the world.
I'm on the world, I'm glad that they're saving it.
Yeah. I personally don't wanna do that with my time, I wanna indulge my curiosities, have fun conversations, and just enjoy my life with my kids.
That's kind of what I like to do, that's my gold standard. So, your story is basically 19 years old, you start Indinaro, you run that company, you grow that company, and then you, like you said, you transition from starting and running companies yourself to now you have this, like, your own hold co.
where you're incubating or creating companies.
And you said that in the last four years you started four companies, each worth over $100 million.
I've co -founded companies, and when I say co -found, sometimes I didn't do a whole lot.
Maybe I helped with idea.
I got the early team on board. I got some early funding.
and then on some of them I'm still really active and on some of them I'm not active and I'm just like a significant shareholder.
All right, hey, real quick, if you're liking this episode with Jess, then we got something cool for you.
So when the episode ended, we asked her, we were like, hey, you were talking about how you have this playbook, this recruiting guide, you have this content guide, you have these things.
Would you mind sharing one of those with us?
And she actually just sent us like all of them.
So she wanted the listeners to be able to have them for free so they're in the show notes below.
So it's her talent playbook, it's a recruiting guide.
I think it's an operations guide for how she runs her companies.
These are straight from her.
They're available in the show notes below.
Check them out. I mean, somebody is giving you free gold.
All you got to do is take out your hands and just accept the gold.
All right, back to this episode.
I want to ask you about your idea process cause that's amazing, to be able to do that.
I want to be able to do that.
So, let's talk about that.
Let's talk about ideas.
How do you get ideas to start these companies?
And then what are some ideas right now that you're excited about?
Yeah, let's talk about process first. I love Y Combinator ideas, the request for startups.
When I was coming up with my first ideas for businesses, like Indinero, that was inspired by that list, and it's a list of 100 business ideas where they say, if you build this, we are more likely to fund you.
And I really wanted to get into Y Combinator, and then I put together this spreadsheet.
So I had this matrix of criteria and one of my top criteria was complicated enough that other people won't copy me too fast. I think that's really important if I'm a first -time founder, I need to have more legroom.
And then another criteria was I can pseudo -bootstrap this.
I can raise some angel money but I don't need to raise like 100 million dollars.
So I'm not gonna build Tesla or SpaceX. I want to build something that two million dollars could get me very far.
My other criteria was I wanted recurring revenue.
I wanted something that was sticky, like a must -have. I literally went through every single one of those ideas on the Y Combinator List, and I rank ordered them based on these three criteria, and business, accounting, and tax management seemed to be the better one for my criteria.
And so my process is I go online and I scrape these ideas, I've even gotten a Reddit to look for ideas.
I have one -on -one lunches and dinners with people like you and I just say hey like what are ideas you're exploring and then we'll just have a brainstorm.
But none of the ideas I've actually worked on came from me sitting in a room with the whiteboard and just like coming up with stuff.
That's never worked out.
I've tried it by the way with no success.
Okay, so you you had this thing on your phone you had like this idea database Yeah, 300 ideas, uh -huh and you promised you said I'll show some of them today Though these are things you might still go do.
I think I might still do some of these So do you want to give us a couple of them?
Absolutely, um, it's called the idea hopper So actually let me pull it up on my phone, okay, great Should we start with the ones we talked about before?
She gave me a teaser of like two or three of them that like I was like don't tell me more But yes, we start with a doge as a service.
Okay. Yeah. I like this one.
So it's very trendy right now.
Doge as a service for companies.
Explain. Yeah, I mean most companies have so much wastes.
You have people who barely show up or they're phoning it in and I have friends who say, ''Oh, yeah.
Like my husband quite quit his job.
He's like working two hours a day and no one's tracking it, so he's available to hang out.'' Those are the people you want to get rid of.
So, what if you could create a software platform that goes through and tracks who is actually on Slack, who is actually emailing, who is using their computer?
And if not, then they're fired, so Doge is a service for companies.
It would be a team of consultants and be a consultant plus AI.
How would you do it?
I think AI could do a lot of it.
I also thought that if you're an enterprise, then you could sell this to consulting firms like McKinsey or BCC or whoever and say, hey, you guys can offer this to the CFO. They're already doing, they're already in there.
They're already in there and that makes you seem more valuable as a consultant.
Because you could say, hey, we could demonstrate that we'll save you hundreds of millions of dollars, if you'll pay us only $20 million.
And this AI did all the work.
Yeah, that's actually pretty interesting.
I don't think enough tech teams build tools for the consultants who have already done the sale.
Because what McKinsey's amazing at is they've got this relationship with a Fortune 100 company, they're on retainer, they're gonna be paid millions of dollars a year.
And if you can sell them a tool that either helps them land and expand that contract or just save overhead in actually executing that contract, that's going to be pretty valuable.
If I was building AI right now, I would not be trying to make something that I'm going to not only build the tool but also figure out all of the go -to -market.
Maybe you could actually just sell this to consultants who already have the go -to -market done.
Exactly. That's, I mean, one of my ideas that I'm actively exploring and here I am sharing it with everyone here.
So you're not afraid to share ideas or what's your philosophy around that?
Ah, no, I'm super -afraid to share ideas.
Put you on the spot here.
You just got to be really comfortable.
So here I am, this is an idea I've been playing around with for a few months and I really like it a lot.
Okay, I like it. I didn't want to be one of those people who said, okay, here are my shittiest ideas, now you go do the comp - Right.
Like, I think that'd be just really lame.
Totally. Alright, what else you got?
Okay. So Doge as a service is one, I like it.
So again, this is the trendy category.
Okay. Another idea is, you know, everyone says SAS is dead, agents are the new thing.
Well, what if you could build vertical agent as a service for an industry?
So, for example, build a library of agents for dental offices or for auto mechanics or for clothing designers or manufacturers or whatever or So there are all these industries, but where they need their own very unique library of agents to automate their tasks and you can go really deep there.
So this is more of a thematic business area, which we'll be, I think we're going to see thousands of businesses doing this.
Right, so okay, so somebody's building a tool.
And so you're saying you don't even have to build the agent.
You're like, there's going to be somebody who builds an agent that's about picking up a call and booking an appointment, let's say appointment booking agent.
So what you used to have to have pay a receptionist to do, now AI is pretty damn good, it's gonna be able to do that fully.
Right, so you have horizontal companies right now that sell the voice agent for any industry.
The problem is you still have to do a lot of fine tuning and work for if you're a dentist. So what if you're a company and you look for all these off -the -shelf tools and make your own agents and plug them all in and tune it just for dentists.
And so it's plug -and -play, I'm a dental office, I can use your company and it has like 100 different pieces of AI already baked into my workflow.
That's the idea in a nutshell.
And you should do this for an industry you know about, like if you're passionate about dental offices then do it in dental offices.
So that's a... shout out to anyone who's passionate about dental offices.
This was your day...
We recognize you. The more boring, the better.
That's the constellation software model, right?
So we invest in this company that's vertical SAS, which was called Shop Genie.
So we invested in it, and I think within a year or two they sold for mid eight figures.
And what they did was they went to auto repair shops and they were like, hey guess what auto repair shops need to CRM.
So there was always CRM's like Hubspot and others that they work for any type of business.
And he's like, well, but auto repair shops have specific things that are, you know - Very specific.
For them. So they built a tool that was just for them and they went and they got like 3000, 4000 auto repair shops in like a year to use them.
By the way - business." Yeah, I was like, dude, how did you get so many shops to use you?
And he's like, there's this guy who's like the auto repair influencer.
He's like the Kardashian of auto repair shops and he vouched for us.
And then all these people, you know, followed on board. He's like, that guy makes like 20 million a year as the biggest influencer to other auto repair shop owners.
It's like really insane.
Wow! There's rich a great business idea.
Yeah. So what they did was they give them this tool.
And it was like for booking your appointment and the text message follow ups or whatever.
And what you're saying is, vertical SaaS has been a thing.
Constellation Software did it.
What you're saying is, instead of vertical SaaS, it's going to be like vertical ass.
Asian sense of service.
Vertical ass. I love it.
All right. But seriously, and then the more random the better.
Like, if you'd apply this to like, you know, marine shipping or to like resource mining, you know, then Constellation will be acquiring and rolling up these vertical ass companies in the next few years.
that's the future. What was the marine shipping cargo ship idea that you were telling me about?
Yeah, that was another idea I had on My Idea Hopper.
The idea was in a nutshell, could we, oh yeah, it was a coating for these cargo ships.
Coating like the paint coating.
But to make it more efficient so that the ships could go even a few knots faster and that saves you a ton of money on fuel and then you don't need to take these ships out of the water as often to recoat them.
So this could be like millions, if not tens of millions of dollars over a decade for your entire fleet of cargo ships.
Totally random idea, I got this from having dinner with someone who was playing around with this idea, or looking at funding something like this many years ago and the other person just didn't have the money to proceed with it.
So I learned about that just from having dinner with someone.
Yeah that's crazy. Let's say you have an idea like that.
So first it's like who the heck he even thinks about cargo ship coding?
So you... I mean, mostly these ideas, the common theme is I didn't come up with any of these ideas.
Right, so you're a good spotter, would you say?
Or what are you good at?
I'm good at initiating conversations with people who are likely to have ideas or have access to ideas.
Like you have good access to ideas, so like...
Actually I've sent you an idea before and now that I think about it, like my buddy James Currier has this great phrase, he goes, you want to turn yourself into an API.
And what he means by that, he goes, you know, like a website has an API, which basically says, here's what I can offer you.
I can give you location data.
So you ping me, I give you location data, that's what I'm good at.
And by the way, here's what I wanna get from your API, here's the things I'm interested in.
I'm interested in acquiring geospatial data.
So you kind of have made your API, like, hey, I'm always interested in hearing interesting, kind of weird off the beaten path ideas.
So when I hear one I think, oh, Jess would like this.
And so you've put yourself in my mind and associated yourself with, she likes to hear weird, cool, off -the -beaten -path, you know, ideas that, you know, she's good at making them happen.
And then in return, you know, you're like, what are you good at?
It's like, what do you offer as your API?
It's like, I have a business and I'm trying to recruit a CEO, and I know you've done that a bunch of times, I'm like, oh, if I go to Jess, she's gonna, you know, reduce my error rate and make me go faster at this because she's really going to be helpful in doing that.
Or if I have another idea, she's really good at fleshing it out over a lunch, like riffing on it, and then being super motivated to be like, all right, what are we gonna do to make this happen?
Let's push the ball forward. So I think you've kind of done that in the idea space, which is powerful.
That's really well articulated, yeah.
I get people calling me all the time saying, hey Jess, do you have five minutes to chat, I have this random idea I want to get your thoughts on.
And would you build this with me, or if I did it, would you fund it?
I get those calls all the time, multiple times a week.
And it's like, all right, yeah, I'll find time to call you back.
But it's like what Warren Buffett did.
He just got the word out there.
Hey, I'm buying businesses, call me if you're ready to sell and it's a fast, easy process.
I'm doing the same thing with ideas.
Yeah, that's great.
My business partner, Ben, I was just thinking about you while you're talking.
His API, so funny, is two things.
One, Ben always knows a guy.
So you're like, do you know anybody?
He's like, I know a guy who knows a guy.
That's always Ben's thing.
Like, he always knows a guy who knows a guy.
And the second thing is, a lot of people will go to Ben.
They'll just text him when something good happens in their life.
And I always I'm like, why did they, did you ask?
He's like, no, no, they just told me.
And like, we just closed this big deal or we just did this thing and they haven't announced it.
And he's not that close to them.
But what I realized is I do the same thing with him because he's somebody that makes you feel good when you win.
You don't feel like there's any envy or he's not going to try to take anything from you.
He's like genuinely pumped for you.
And because of that, he just gets this wealth of inbound of people who are winning, which is also great for us for investing because we're like, oh, wow, these guys are doing really well.
Do they need more capital?
Do they need something like maybe we could help them.
And that's a superpower.
So I think people there's like these underrated superpowers.
Like the thing you're describing about I'm good at, you know, maybe having interesting conversations, getting good ideas and making people feel like they should come to me with interesting ideas.
That's not even a skill you can learn in school or nobody would even tell you that that's a thing.
Yeah. But you're going to build generational wealth off that.
Yeah. That's well said.
And I think it's equally as important to know what we're bad at.
For me, I realized that I'm not the best operating CEO. That's just not my forte.
And after I realized that and came to peace with that, then I was able to say, okay, well, I'm going to come up with ideas and recruit great teams and then empower them, and that's what I want to figure out how to be great at.
Exactly. So let's see more.
I want more ideas. I have this other idea.
the code name is holy help and I came up with this idea because I heard of another business that was mentioning like tens of millions of dollars in EBITDA within 36 months and all they did was help one niche of a medical provider get access to insurance and then I did some research I put this in a GPT and I realized there's so many of these other types of people like chiropractors or physical therapists, where they can get insurance reimbursement, but they're so small, they don't have the scale to negotiate with an insurance company on getting reimbursed.
So they just start to all cash.
So technically they could?
Technically they could.
But is it that they don't have the time or the skill?
Or you need to ban them together?
So if you ban them together, then they can get some reimbursement.
And they could create agents as a service to support them, to create more lock in.
and then you could help them with their customer acquisition.
So, it's gotta be the full stack.
And this other company did that for one of these different verticals.
And I heard about that through a friend who heard about the company, and I'm like, ah man, that's a great idea, could I do something adjacent to that that's not copying them, but similar in some ways.
It's a similar blueprint, but in a different space that needs it.
Exactly. So, you would go, what would you do for that?
So, you would, let's just walk through this.
So, I wanna hear, so you have that idea, this actually starts with a clue.
I got a clue, because I was having lunch with a friend and he's like these guys are making like 30 million in EBITDA I'm like all right cool.
What question are you asking that friend because um we were just talking before and I was like how the hell do you get these I go what is your info diet that you are getting these ideas that I don't get to hear about you're doing something different you know you're not just consuming the same stuff I am because you're getting different ideas so can we talk about that real quick the info diet yeah I mean none of these come from reading a blog post or Washington podcasts, all these are from in -person conversations.
I think a lot of people are lazy, they just want to come up with stuff by staring at their computer.
Nothing good comes out of doing that.
If I'm being candid, you have to get out of the building.
You have to like just talk to people.
And when you're talking, what are you what are you asking?
Like hey, what's interesting?
What have you seen that's cool?
Yeah, what's the coolest, what's the most interesting, exotic business idea that's minting cash that you've seen recently?
And so I'm not asking them for a business idea, I'm asking them, what's an existing thing you've seen?
As like, why, what's the key to their success?
And why does no one know about this?
And why hasn't anyone copied them yet?
And why is now the right time for them?
Right, so you're filtering, as they give you the exotic business that's minting cash, you're like, was there some secret sauce that's not replicable?
Maybe they're super influential in a community.
Okay, that would take forever to build.
Could this be done in another space?
does this take $100 million of venture capital?
Or could this be bootstrapped?
Yeah, how much do they start, and then they're like, oh yeah, these guys just bootstrapped it.
I'm like, oh my God, now my math is really watering.
I'm like, okay, and what are the other risks here?
Like, can AI just replace this in 36 months?
That's like the new risk factor in my criteria that y 'all have to ask about.
So you get the clue, you get the clue from the conversation, conversation key question, and then you get the clue, then you run it through your filter, mentally just there.
Let's say now you're excited about the idea because you're like Holy Health and you give it a code name is there everything has to have a code name is why is that it makes it real it makes it feel more psychologically real and like okay then I have something to remind me of the rest of the substance of the idea cool and so I'll just like throw the idea into chat LGBT before you even tell your co -workers you're like I think with AI first uh yeah exactly I tell everyone before you tell me anything think with AI as well yeah and so everyone does that and I say give me like 20 ideas of potential names
for this idea and then I just pick one and this is the code name and then we put it on Idea Hopper and then.
Did you see the CEO of Microsoft went on a podcast, I think Dwarakesh's podcast...
Oh yeah. He had this great line.
He goes, my new workflow is think with AI and then work with my coworkers.
Yeah. So he goes, I think people are thinking about like AI is going to replace your coworkers, your employees is going to, AI is going to do a task?
He's like, but right now the best use case is me thinking and sparring with AI to get clarity.
And then I go work with my coworkers after that, sounds like you're kind of doing a similar thing.
Yeah, we definitely do that.
And what we're trying to do is have all of our meetings be recorded.
So even if it's in person, we're just turning on Granola and I have a big one of those conference speakerphone things and it's just recording everything.
And we're going to feed it in to create digital twins of all of us.
Then have basically thousands of versions of ourselves just brainstorming and sparring with each other to refine ideas even further.
It's like those little chess arenas or whatever where they train the AIs to just compete with each other until like the, until there's like a winner, a winning strategy?
How are you gonna do the digital twin thing?
We're actually doing, we're actually training one based off of you as well.
So we're gonna have it just watch every single video you've been part of, so it knows how to think like you, be like, hey, bring Sean into these conversations spring, Satya bring, Suck bring, Elon bring, like whoever.
And I want all of them to like help battle test this, you know, conversation.
That's amazing, cause it is - to pay for you know that's useful when if you just ask a question like oh what would you do in this situation, or you know, take your most high agency bad ass friend who's not afraid, and seems to have like clarity in the moment of a fog of war.
If you just have that friend you've hung out with them enough that you just literally just ask the question.
It's like they're in the room.
And I know if that works, then an AI that's actually trained on them is going to be insane.
Do you know how you'll do that?
How will you create?
What are you gonna use to make them be AI?
It's so much public content for my team members.
That's why I'm making sure that they record every single interaction in the company with each other.
Is there a tool to do that or are you gonna make your own tool?
It's just another way to get the transcripts.
Because once you have the transcripts, then you can just feed that into any of these.
So any MLM will be able to - It's gonna do a pretty good job.
Yeah, we could go into more advanced conversation on this, but that's 90%.
People will, in ads, all the time now and I'm like, this is wild.
Like, how do I sue you?
I don't know who you are.
Second thing is that, but I'm going to.
Anybody who's doing it, I'm suing you.
I'm actively working on that.
I'm telling AI to figure out how to find you to sue you.
But then also, what was the other one?
Oh, writing style. So people will just put in chat, you'll be like, write this in the style, whatever, because I've written a lot of content publicly.
And it's not me, but it's like, It's definitely kind of close to me.
It's like, oh, that's 18 months away for being better than me.
So that's definitely happening, might as well embrace it.
We're almost gonna need like a safe word. That's like, is it Human Sean that I'm talking to or is this AI Sean that I'm talking to?
Like, we need a code word. I know, but it's like really exciting.
And so yeah, Satya is on point here.
So where was I? So you were telling me about, okay, so we're going through your process.
So, you get excited about the idea.
Yeah, you have the clue.
give a code name and you then have a meeting with your team.
What are you doing in that meeting?
What are you trying to do to advance that idea forward?
Yeah, every week we have a R &D team meeting is what we just call it.
And we talk about the ideas that we're playing with.
And the problem here with holy health, because this is a live idea and it still is a live idea, everything I've shared today is still live, by the way.
And the problem is we just had too many of these ideas.
I mean, you have hundreds of these ideas and we try to work on too many at the same time and the problem is then you don't really advance any idea forward enough between each week meeting and then we lose excitement.
So now the new rule is, we're only going to have two and we're going to take them all the way until they're busted before you replace and bring in another one.
And so like what do you do?
So you have the meeting, you pitch the idea.
Do you have a way of kind of pitching it to your team or how do you, what's happening in that meeting?
In that meeting, anyone can pitch. So it's not just me.
Everyone usually has different ideas.
And so yeah, it's like hey, here's a AI defensible idea, XYZ.
Here's why it's a Maui idea.
So we kind of have a common understanding on what a Maui idea is.
Which is roughly what?
It's roughly an idea that can cash flow, that doesn't require a lot of outside funding.
We could fund it ourselves.
And where it's like boring and complicated enough where random people are not gonna copy us that easily or reverse engineer that easily.
Those are my way ideas and that's what I'd encourage anyone else to do as well.
Like if you're an auto mechanic expert, then that might be your theme of idea and we have that for like financial services in particular.
Right, and so where do you leave that meaning?
You say, alright, what are we gonna do next?
We say, okay, what are we going to get done to advance this between this week and next week?
And we just get very specific and say, all right, like person A you're doing these five things, person B you're doing these five things.
And the next step might be like, okay, let's just go call like for Holy Health.
The next step was let's just call some chiropractors and ask them if they, you know, figure out who accepts insurance and who doesn't and why.
And then ask them why don't they plug into these existing companies that should be that doing something similar.
So a lot of it's just like what are the questions we're curious about?
And psychologically are you trying to disqualify an idea or are you trying to qualify an idea?
Like what's the mindset, is it, I'm trying to figure out is this good or bad or is it like I'm listing the riskiest assumption, I'm doing it.
What are you trying to do during that those next few weeks?
It's not we're trying to figure it out or just qualify per se, I think either attitude might be too extreme, it's more like there might be a creative angle here that no one else's thought through.
And so we're not married to this idea.
We're holding it very loosely.
We just have to figure out, like, okay, you might hear an interesting insight from a chiropractor that says, hey, your idea is okay, but what would make it really good is if you also added in all these AI agents to automate away my receptionist. And then my customer acquisition is terrible because X, Y, Z.
Those are the insights we're looking for to then manufacture an upgraded version of the idea.
So, we assume the first idea is terrible and it's gonna go through like 10 pivots.
Right, which is very useful because that's almost always the case.
And if you don't have that attitude, you basically, you hear something really juicy, but you're so locked in.
It's like somebody was handing you gold, but you were out there just, you know, searching for bronze.
And it's like are you sure?
You sure you want that?
I was going to ask you, you know, you're talking a lot about ideas in Silicon Valley, there's there's this phrase which is, you know, ideas are worthless, execution is everything.
Do you buy that? I think it's BS, I think it's some of the worst advice I've ever heard in Silicon Valley.
So what's your take?
My take is that ideas are really fricking important and if you have the wrong idea you'd be a great team and you're screwed, and actually I modified my thinking on this because I was a scout for Sequoia Capital for many years, and they would show us a bunch of these like great ideas with amazing traction, especially in consumer internet.
And then they would ask us, would you invest on this memo?
Yes or no? And so we would vote and then they'd say, well here's what happened to that company.
It ended up being a CRO, even though it had the best team, the idea was still garbage.
So it ended up being a CRO, and that was like a common theme I noticed.
So they would train almost train you on historical memos basically?
Oh wow that's interesting.
But if the traction was great, is it, usually the traction good or just the team and the thesis was great?
I mean the early traction might have been good and the team looks good, but then if you really think through the long -term, like, is this idea sticky after a year or two?
Will there be copycats?
Like, is it, like, is there anything that really holds the consumer in?
that's where these ideas would then lose steam and die.
And so that kind of helped me think about this a bit differently.
And so you're saying ideas super important.
Ideas are really important and the team is really important.
They're both really important, but to say, oh yeah, like ideas are a dime a dozen.
Really, it's not just the idea, it's the whole thinking of the business, doing the calls to understand or meeting with the chiropractors in person or the automechanic and really figuring out these juicy tidbits that you're not gonna find out by sending out a stupid survey or by using chat GPT to tell me, hey, what are the problems that chiropractors have?
Like that helps you build an interview script for what you're gonna then talk to them about, but then, you have to show up.
So like, when I was building Innero, I would go to Yelp and I would call these CPAs and I would say, hey, I'm like a 19 year old college kid, I know nothing about business, I wanna do something to help accountants.
Can I come to you, buy you lunch and just ask you some questions just for fifteen minutes and then you show up?
They're not gonna kick you out after fifteen minutes.
Fifteen minutes is gonna turn into two hours and you have your notepad, you're scribbling.
They love that. They wanna be helpful.
And I did a lot of that personally.
I just showed up and asked them my questions and then got all these insights and we still do that.
I'm still on these calls.
Okay. Like even if it's not in person, if you could at least do like hour long plus, you know, uh, expert calls like we use GLG for this.
There's also, um, like alpha sites and they charge you a lot.
You know, you might be paying 800 bucks or a thousand dollars to talk to an expert in a very difficult to find area versus like accountants and chiropractors.
Like you could just call someone on the internet, but if you want to find like an expert in titanium mining, how are you gonna find that person?
You go to GLG and you pay them a thousand bucks, they'll find the person for you, set up the phone call for you, and we do that all the time.
The way you're talking about ideas and markets, it reminds me of, there's this story of this marketer, and the marketer goes to, I think, a seminar or something like that, other marketer's there, and he goes, okay, we're gonna, let's pretend we're opening up a hot dog stand, and he's like, so, he's like, I'm a genie.
I will give you anything you want to make your hot dog stand the most successful you can make it.
So he goes, what do you want?
And the first person, what do you want?
The guy was like, I want the best ingredients, best buns.
He's like, got it, best buns.
You, what do you want?
He's like, no, no, no, buns, that's foolish.
In the food business, location is everything.
So location, all right, I got you this corner spot in a high -traffic area, cool, location, you got it.
What do you want? And each person had like, your best branding, best whatever.
And he goes, I have one thing that I think will beat all of you if we all did the same thing and that we all got our wish granted.
he goes, all I want is a starving crowd.
And if you're a marketer, you're gonna spend a lot of time and energy trying to sell something, the absolute best decision you can make up front is finding a starving, ravenous crowd, and it sounds like, when you say ideas, really the idea, what's underneath an idea is a customer or set of customers who have a real pain and a desire to solve that pain, they are hungry, and they're hungry for something, and if you just show up with even decent buns, and hot dogs, like, they'll buy it, you know, instantaneously.
It's okay if it's a little cold.
It doesn't matter. Yeah, that's a great story.
It's about, like, how cute is this problem, and ideally, one hallmark of a maui idea is the customer doesn't have to pay anything.
So in Holy Health, you don't pay to be on our platform.
By being part of our platform, you make more money, you get more customers, and we'll take a cut of that in exchange for helping you grow your business.
So you like that model, because there's no friction.
I love that model. It's like, why would you say no to that?
It's like you're just saying no to more business.
That's like those companies that...they'll negotiate with all vendors on your behalf, and they're like, whatever we save, we'll take 20%.
You're saving nothing today, if I save you any money, I'll take 20%, and it's like, okay, have at it.
You were talking about, you had a couple other ideas.
You had like a divorce one.
What was that one? Oh yeah, that was like, I had so many friends trading divorce and still do.
and people say they need an advance on their alimony or their money gets tied up and locked up because they're in divorce proceedings and they're really rich, they're really successful, but they can't tap any of their own capital while it's all tied up.
So what if we could just give them some of their money back and so that was just like a funny random.
So like creative financing around either the window of a divorce or the alimony.
We called it divorce .fund.
Didn't go forward with that one.
No, I mean people talk about it, We still joke about it, but there are other ideas that we got more excited about.
So - So let's talk about failures, because one of the things you said to me before - Oh man, so many failures.
You were like, I like your podcast, but sometimes you listen to people and it just sounds like I had this idea, it worked, I'm so great, you know, that's a podcast problem.
And you were like, I want to be super honest about things we're trying that are not working or failures that I've had.
Where do you want to start?
I mean, I would start by saying when I use YouTube and I have all these entrepreneur business podcasts.
I spend a lot of time flipping through and I think man, like I'm not doing enough.
Like I'm not good enough even when like I watched your podcast. I think that and I think that a lot of people you know probably share that view and the people you interview.
I know a lot of these people.
These are my friends.
I know what they're secretly struggling with, and they're not necessarily sharing all of that, and I think that's just important to know.
So in my case, it looks like I am good at coming up with these things and having success, but most of the time, they're total duds.
And one example is we had this idea, and we called it CredBoost. Terrible idea in hindsight.
I'm so embarrassed to share this, but I'm gonna share it anyway.
New York City founders, if you've listened to my First Million before, you know I've got this company called Hampton.
in Hampton is a community for founders and CEOs.
A lot of the stories and ideas that I get for this podcast, I actually got it from people who I met in Hampton.
We have this big community of 1000 plus people, and it's amazing.
But the main part, is this eight person core group that becomes your Board of Advisors for your life and for your business.
And it's life changing.
Now to the folks in New York City, I'm building a in real life core group in New York City.
And so, if you meet one of the following criteria, Your business either does 3 million in revenue or you've raised 3 million in funding, or you've started and sold a company for at least $10 million.
Then you are eligible to apply.
So go to joinhampton .com and apply.
I'm going to be reviewing all of the applications myself.
So put that you heard about this on MFM, so I know to give you a little extra love.
Now back to the show.
And idea was, um, we're going to help you like improve your credit and repair it.
and, you know, we had the customer acquisition funnel going and it was high churn, low price point, very high regulation by the FTC.
You know, it got compared to credit repair businesses too much. And, you know, my idea was we're gonna boost your credit, not just repair your credit.
And it could have made some money, but we just got bored with that.
And so I burned a few hundred thousand bucks experimenting with that.
And then I put in the wrong team.
So I made so many mistakes on that.
That was an early incubation that went nowhere.
And this other idea was, we're going to help veterans of the US military find new jobs, and we're going to get paid by VETTEC and the GI Bill to do that.
And we can do this all online.
So it's virtual, it's scalable, and we're helping veterans.
So it felt like a really good idea.
And the veteran, all they have to do is say yes.
So we launched all these ads.
all these veterans signed up, they're like, hell yeah, I could double my salary, make more money, and do this all online from the comfort of my home.
And our payment mechanism was this thing called Vet Tech, V -E -T -T -E -C, and it had bipartisan, you know, acceptance.
Everyone loved it but it got stuck.
It got approved by the House and never went up to the Senate.
And the money dried up and we were like alright, well, we get renewed imminently.
And 18 months after that, still not renewed today, still not renewed. And we were like, okay, well, the hat business died just because of that.
And then I try to pivot it.
I'm like, oh, can I get the GI Bill to pay for it?
But then the GI Bill requires in person.
And then after that, we lost interest. I was the only one excited about this.
Still like, guys, we've got to help the veterans.
My team's like, we have other ideas that will make more money, Jess, and we want to make money.
Like, alright, I'll come back to this one of the time straight.
So Swings and Misses for sure.
I want to show you this, I want you to read this.
This is from a talk you gave. So this is not just. This is when it hurts, but not just because an idea is wrong.
Sometimes it's even when the idea is right and you're running a company.
Can you read this? I want you to read that.
Yeah, I wrote this to my mom and my dad on Saturday, June 4th, 2011 at 5 .56 AM.
So I was up all night, I couldn't go to sleep.
I was so upset. Subject line.
Kind of sad. I feel like I'm burning maid off, reached on the outside but completely broken on the inside.
There's just a lot of pressure right now because the company is running dry on money in the next nine or so months and we really need to produce this summer or else we're royally screwed. This was about a year after Y Combinator for me.
Anyway, I want to start seeing a therapist or something because this is just no way to live.
I have no idea how you handle this entrepreneur job.
Jess. And my mom, she's an entrepreneur, she came here as an immigrant.
Do you remember sending that?
I do. I absolutely remember that.
I remember the night I remember how I was just like very upset because I had all these hoops and expectations about myself.
And you know, Paul Graham even.
He was my mentor and he's like, you're going to be one of the greatest entrepreneurs of all time.
You, Patrick Hollinson, and Sam Altman.
And I'm still the least successful today.
And I still think about that often.
And, um - So that weight was on your shoulders?
That weight was totally on my shoulders.
It still is on my shoulders.
And um, and my mom called me and she said, Hey, like, I love you no matter what.
Even if you're a total business failure, I'll still love you.
And then I just cut all my expenses, cut my burn, moved into a tiny apartment with my business partner and, and then just slowly crawled out out of the hole.
And then yeah, we grew in and out, uh, you know, it's a few hundred employees.
this profitable good business, not a unicorn, but it gave me all the training and spiritual training to pursue entrepreneurship and be comfortable with mistakes and failure.
Were you at that time, I guess, what was the conversation with yourself?
Because you're like, I did these things, I lowered my burn, I did this, I did this.
So those are the actions, but before the action comes, there's some inner monologue, there's some conversation you gotta have with yourself.
and I love the inner monologue because your whole life gets dictated by this tiny little voice in your head that nobody hears.
It's the one telling you how to feel, what to do, where to stand, what to say, and I think training that and learning how to improve that inner monologue is so important and it gets better in moments like this, right?
That's when it gets, that's the muscle building for that inner monologue.
Do you remember what you were telling yourself at that phase?
You wrote this. mom tells you something, what did you tell yourself?
I distinctly remember what the monologue was that whole evening which is I am destined for greatness and I am not producing my best work right now.
I am not showing up at my best. I'm not playing to win and I am, I'm falling behind and I need to diagnose what went wrong and I need to keep on trying and I will not accept or tolerate failure.
That was what was going through my head.
Were you listening to a song at that time where did that come from?
That was fire. How'd you get yourself into that state from kind of sad to kind of kick ass?
No, that was sad, though.
That was not, it was not an empowered attitude.
I was, I was thinking that and but because I knew that that was my situation then it went from like, all right like I need to do all this or I'm screwed and then like all right I'm really sad and I got to process my emotions.
Right. Just get it out of me and you know be honest with myself that I'm struggling I need asked for help.
And I didn't have a great community because back at that time you, you know, as an entrepreneur you want to show off.
You want to posture.
You want to seem like you're better than everyone else.
And then after that I realized I could just be honest and I'll still have friends.
And I told all my girlfriends and ends up more people were struggling than I realized.
More of my Y Combinator batch mates were also running out of money.
And if we look back today, most of the companies from that batch did not make it.
Most of them went BK and then people took normal jobs or started new companies and then eventually found success.
And so, yeah, I still think about that.
I still have thoughts like that today.
It's not it's a work in progress.
You know, I've done whatever, 600 of these episodes and at a certain point, you know, you'd have to be sort of stupid to not realize, like there's a mindset amongst the common one mindset that I think great entrepreneurs have, and I've distilled it down into this, I think a great entrepreneur's mindset is they're ignorant of the past, cause it's already done.
If they live there, they'll die there.
And if you just stay stuck on, well I've been failing for five years, then you will feel like a failure, and you won't be able to win.
So you're ignorant of the past, realistic about the present, which is kind of what you said, like I'm not showing up at my best, I'm not putting in all the effort, I'm not doing the obvious things that I should be doing right now.
But I'm also not, it's not over.
And if they don't make it worse than it is, they don't make it better than it is.
They see it as it actually is.
So ignorant of the past, realistic about the present and delusional about the future.
And you have to have that delusion because if you're just realistic and practical about the future, you don't do anything great.
Yeah, that's really well articulated.
I think also going through moments like that, I remember then talking to my business partner and we did a full postmortem.
We listed out every single strategic and tactical mistaken thing we did wrong and what we would do different if we went back in time.
And I wish I wrote this somewhere because it was a long list. I mean, it was like, I would do everything different if I could go back in time was that attitude.
And even today I was talking to, or yesterday I was talking to one of my colleagues and the number of bad ideas we funded and experimented with, and our process flaws, we would also do everything different going three years back if we could.
But we're talking about this constantly and that goes back to what we talked about at first, Kodawari, so every week, what if we bake this into our workflow?
No matter how good things are, let's still reflect on all the mistakes we made so that we can improve and not repeat that again.
It doesn't have to be when times are tough and when you're about to run out of money that you're reflecting on everything.
Yeah. Yeah. No old mistakes.
It's kind of like it's the no new friends.
It's the no old mistakes is what you want.
You know I keep making the same mistakes again.
You said something when you were talking about like I'm not you said I'm not showing off the way to you.
I'm not playing to win something while your boyfriend before this he goes I asked him I said what's a what's a jess ism meaning like if you talk to people enough you sort of see there the things they repeat the things that are like their philosophy that they're like actually operating on, and he said something like, play to win, don't play not to lose.
Explain that. I think that came from this story that I just shared where I one of my problems was I was playing not to lose, so I was in a scarcity mindset.
And when I'm running out of money and I'm in scarcity mindset, I mean there's research that talks about how your IQ drops by a lot during those periods and so I'm not going to think outside of the box and playing to win means I'm optimistic, I'm delusional about the future of it, right?
So I see a lot of my friends who are just playing it too safe they're not, they're not trying new things and so you can't do the same thing you've been doing and expect a completely different outcome.
Right, what's an example maybe non -business related where in your life you had the moment where you were like, ah, I need to play to win here instead of playing not to lose.
like, for example, with the airplane.
You know, this is a physical manifestation of that attitude and why it's really fun to share that with everyone today.
It's easy to say, oh, I'm gonna be frugal.
I'm gonna save the money, I'm gonna let it compound.
I'm gonna invest it in my other businesses.
Or, you know, screw it, I'm planning to win here.
This is gonna manifest way more abundance for me than if I don't.
You had told me something when we were at lunch that inspired me.
you met somebody I think who threw a great event and you hired this person.
You were like, hey, here's a budget and I will pay you, whatever you're making to your job, I'll pay you that or more or whatever.
You're like, I wanna have four events a year in these four cities with the most inspiring, fun people that I wanna create, I wanna engineer some serendipity, some luck, some fun, some cross pollination of people and ideas, four times a year in these places.
And I remember, I've told probably five people this because you need some resources to do it, yes, of course.
If you're in the YouTube comments, don't be that guy who's like, oh, it must be nice to have money, great.
There's a version of this in your life, too.
You can take people out to dinner, right?
It doesn't have to be a grand event.
But I was like, that is an investment that I don't even have a line item for, right?
I kind of know if I did it, I would A, have a lot of fun, and B, like yeah, I do think good things would happen, but you took an almost intentional, business capital allocation approach to the luck and fun part of your life, which I think most people leave untouched.
Luck and fun is just something that either happens or doesn't happen.
I don't use my business brain for that, I use this other part of my brain.
It seemed like you almost used that same brain for both.
Yeah, because I wanted to kill two birds with one stone or three birds with one stone, because I want to have fun, I want to do more business, meet cool people.
But I also have this friend who hated her private equity job and really wanted an excuse to leave. And so I was able to present that to her.
The vision was four events a year with the most successful entrepreneurs and investors I know.
And we're launching the first one literally today.
That's exactly what I'm flying off to after we're done.
And then the vision is we'll do a summer thing, a fall thing, et cetera.
But it was really expensive.
And so what she and I decided to do is we would help her find other work, other events.
So I'd set her up with my other friends throwing events.
she would charge per event, and she would get paid based on the revenue coming into the event, so it's all variable, versus her being on my payroll.
And so for this event, what I did is I called a bunch of my friends and said, hey, you gotta pay something, because I have hard costs here.
And they paid in, and then she only paid herself after there was a profit.
So, you could get creative about this.
For the ideas, we were talking about earlier and my whole team, a bunch of these people are on contract.
I found them on Upwork.
Okay, like you could do this.
One of them. One type of person.
Like what skill set do they have that you found out.
You just had like Fiverr or Upwork.
Yeah, like one's a product management UI UX thinker.
One is a financial services guy.
One was an intern of mine.
He was at UCLA and he asked me to speak to his entrepreneur club and then he said, hey, could I like take you to lunch?
I want to get some advice from you.
What should I do after college?
I'm like, just intern for me and I'll teach you the ropes.
And then he was so good that now he's full time with us.
But he's probably one of my best idea sparring partners.
And then here, this event planning person, I met her from the Burning Man community.
These people are everywhere around you.
They don't necessarily have a fancy specific resume and they're fun, I love them, we work well together.
That's more important than the resume.
right I met a friend recently who told me this he said something in passing he goes I was at this event and then there was this guy who's he was dressed differently blah blah and me and my friend we collect eccentric people so we went over to him how to chat I kind of paused him I was like that's kind of a cool thing you just said like I collect eccentric people I don't do that I was like but what do I collect like if I just put myself in if I said what am I a collector of so like for me I'm a collector of I call golden nuggets it's like I can have this conversation with you and I'm just looking
for two three four things.
Like, I don't need two hours or 90 minutes of a conversation to be perfect, I need three ideas that spark something, three golden nuggets that will change my way of thinking or acting.
So I'm a great collector of those.
I'm also a collector of like young talent.
Like, I see somebody who's young, who's hustling or is talented in some way, I will like kind of really help them out because I want to A, stay young myself and be helpful, but B, I kind of want to be able to connect dots between young people and good opportunities or young people and funding or whatever it is.
And so I think there's this interesting idea of figuring out what is it that you collect.
Like some dudes collect stamps, some dudes collect bugs, what is it that you collect?
So like for you, what would you say you collect?
I would say I collect interesting people with outside of the box ideas who also like to have fun.
That is the key intersection I'm looking for.
That's your Venn diagram.
Exactly, because I think you could find interesting people where they're not fun.
It's very transactional.
They're just in it to make money themselves.
But then the problem with that is, then I can't do any business with them.
So then my idea was, okay, how do I bring more of these people together, so that we can have more serendipity?
Oh, I'll just create my own event and then bring them there and then have a bunch of my people also, you know, talking to them, getting their ideas and seeing where we could partner on stuff.
Right, right, engineering the serendipity.
Our buddy, Nick Gray, does a low cost, low cost version of this.
So he used to do a Renegade Museum tour.
So he loved museums. So his Venn diagram was like fun people who are interested in going to a museum on a Friday night.
And he would host his, he wasn't a part of the museum, he would just take people on a tour, because he knew the museum better than the tour guides, and he would take them on a fun version of the tour.
They'd have a drink beforehand, they would go in and they would do little fun things at the different stations.
So I think that was one thing he did.
Another way he engineered serendipities, he would throw these singles events where he himself was looking to date somebody, But he's like, well, I could just kind of do that.
I can swipe left or right.
Or like, is there something I could do more creative that will not only help me find someone amazing, but maybe even like a bunch of our friends find somebody amazing, and he started hosting these singles events.
And again, it's a pizza budget.
It's not like it's super fancy.
Doesn't have to be fancy.
And I feel like I need to say that because we're sitting on this like jet.
But like, Yeah, I mean, most of the stuff we do is like very cheap, cost effective, and peace for itself and sometimes makes a profit.
Right now. So like, but just taking that intensity to engineering some serendipity.
I kind of love that.
But before we leave, just leave me with what are you currently nerding out about?
I've been spending a lot of time thinking about cancer and oncology.
I've been thinking a lot about longevity, and we're still funding a lot of the research with Mike Levin, who's my favorite scientist of all time.
He's the bio -electricity ninja.
And I've been nerding out on this a bit more because I was mentioning to you before we got here, I've been in a bit of a sad mood this week.
I had a friend die of cancer a few days ago.
Never smoked a cigarette in her life and had stage four lung cancer.
And it's just more examples of this in my life.
Every year or two I lose a friend like that.
And so it's not necessarily going to make money, it's not going to improve my lifestyle, but I'm just like, I got in on it.
Right. Is there exciting progress in the cancer oncology stuff right now?
Like, is there something, is there a new paradigm or a new pathway that's interesting?
Yeah, like, with Mike, he talks about how he's been able to use bioelectricity to normalize cancer cells.
So everyone right now in the field is talking about how do you kill a cancer, right?
You think about chemo, radiation, it's really painful on the patient, but if you could just normalize cancer and not have to kill it, that's gonna be a lot more comfortable.
So it kind of makes it like a normal non -cancerous cell, It's still going to be cancer, but it's more benign, essentially, so that's really cool research. He's got a lot of great stuff on longevity, making lab animals live longer.
I don't think he wants me to talk about it publicly yet.
How insane is the AI for medicine and biology?
How insane is that going to be?
I think it's going to be amazing.
I think it's also going to be a lot harder than people think because you have AI that's coming up with all these ideas but the bottleneck is still regulatory, still FDA, it's still getting a clinical trial put together.
That's one area where we're gonna see slower progress than everyone is bragging about, whereas you know, with everything else we discuss with digital twins, if we could have the two of us brainstorm ideas, there's no bottleneck there.
The only bottleneck is like spitting up the computer and then us pulling the trigger to fund ads or fund whatever, but in health and bio, it's people's lives are at stake, it's gonna go slow still, I think, unfortunately.
OK, well, where should people find you and what should they send you?
Yeah, if you have any exotic outside -of -the -box business ideas you want to run by me, I'd love to discuss that with you.
Shoot me a note and I am on LinkedIn.
LinkedIn just search Jess Ma.
And I post on my blog there almost every week, partially using Chashubt to come up with my blog posts.
But I still review it.
I'm like, hey, write me a blog post that's 2950 characters long because the LinkedIn limit's 3000 in my voice about XYC, XYC, and insert these anecdotal stories.
And then within two minutes I have a blog post. That's amazing.
But I post there and these are real life stories in my life.
And just send me a message on LinkedIn, would love to hear from people.
And also the last pod we did, I made a bunch of friends.
Oh, great. People just cold emailed me and I'm like, yeah, I'll grab lunch with you.
I'll grab dinner with you and two people I met from the plot are coming to my retreat.
That's amazing to hear.
That's a point of pride for us is like we wanted to.
If somebody comes on the podcast you should get more kind of inbound messages from this than any other podcast you go on.
And the second would be that the people who message you are people you would actually wanna talk to.
That would be the goal.
If we're doing that we've kind of built the right tribe here so I'm glad to hear that.
with that real community so thanks for having me here.
Awesome, cheers. Cheers.
Alright, here we go.
