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Hello, we're here for more Happier, a podcast where we get happier.
Today's episode is the next in our roundtable conversation series and the topic is intentional celebration how we can design our celebrations to reflect our values and deepen our connections, instead of just feeling overwhelmed by tasks and to-do lists and obligations.
I'm Gretchen Rubin, a writer who studies happiness and human nature.
I'm host of the Happier with Gretchen Rubin podcast and the new podcast, Since You Asked.
I've also written books like The Happiness Project and Happier at Home, which are very relevant to our discussion today.
And I am so excited to be talking today with three terrific guests.
First, Priya Parker.
Priya is a facilitator, advisor and the acclaimed author of The Art of Gathering How We Meet and Why It Matters.
She helps people create more meaningful connections and a deeper sense of belonging through the Art of Gathering digital course and her Substack publication Group Life, which I love this.
It aims to make group help as normal as self-help.
Hello, Priya.
Hi, Gretchen.
So great to be here.
And we will also be joined by Frances Lamb.
Francis is the host of The Splendid Table from American Public Media and vice president and editor-in-chief of Clarkson Potter at Penguin Random House.
It's a leader in cookbook publishing.
He is a former New York Times Magazine columnist and top chef master's judge.
He's an award-winning writer whose work has appeared in Gourmet, Bon Appetit, and Food & Wine.
He graduated first in his class from the Culinary Institute of America.
Well done, Francis.
Hello.
I forgot that you got that version of my bio.
Thank you for having me.
I love a first.
And then I am so excited, as always, to be talking to my old friend, Kate Bowler.
Kate Bowler is a New York Times bestselling author, the award-winning host of the Everything Happens podcast and an associate professor at Duke University.
She studies how we make sense of success, suffering, and change, and her books include Everything Happens for a Reason, No Cure for Being Human, her most recent, which is Have a Beautiful, Terrible Day, and her new book will hit the shelves in just a few months, Joyful Anyway.
So hello, Kate.
Hello, my friend.
I'm so glad to be here.
This is so fun.
Thank you all.
I feel like this is an intentional celebration.
It's so fun.
So today we're talking about intentional celebration because it does feel like every year...
It's all too easy to get swept up in a cycle of holidays that can feel more like a relentless, endless to-do list than a source of joy and connection.
So let's talk about how to reclaim this time so we can embrace the holidays as opportunities for connection and meaning.
Just to jump right in, Priya, I want to open with you.
You write about defining the purpose of a gathering.
And for holidays like Thanksgiving or New Year's, there's sort of a pre-written script.
How would you suggest that we can identify and articulate more personal purposes for these events?
How can we redefine them for ourselves?
You know, the biggest mistake we make when we gather is we skip defining the purpose and we think it's super obvious.
Oh.
And that is particularly true for gatherings that come with these heavily baked scripts like Thanksgiving or New Year's.
And so the first thing to just pause and ask, which is, first of all, what is a gathering like?
I would want to attend.
Host a gathering you actually want to attend.
If you are feeling dread, that's data.
So start by hosting a gathering you actually want to attend.
And the second is people... prefer connection over perfection.
When you are able to actually, I know.
Connection over perfection.
Okay, that is a mug I need to own.
I think we can make that happen.
So when people think about stressing out about all of the stuff, when you are able to meaningfully connect people, The rest it lowers the need for everything else to be so perfect.
And to start by asking, like, what is it that I am craving?
What is it that I would love to have?
So I'll give a simple example.
There was a Cirque du Soleil dancer and choreographer, Michel Lepre, and he, like many people, traveling a lot for work, and he really wanted to trim his tree, like decorate his tree, but he actually really wanted to just get his people together who he hadn't seen in a while.
And so he invited them over for a tree trimming.
Is that a thing?
Tree trimming party.
Sure to help him dress the tree before Christmas.
But the price of entry was he asked them to send two photos over email, two moments of happiness from their year mmm.
And when people walked in he had the photos printed out on a table set out with ornaments and glue and scissors and crafting supplies.
And so every ornament were his friends' moments of happiness around the tree.
Oh, that's amazing.
Isn't that amazing?
So immediately there was shared context.
It's like, oh, I had no idea you sold your house.
Or, wow, you were in that show this year?
And then it went to dinner and they already had the shared context where the whole evening just basically became – conversations about moments of happiness from the year.
And then did they take them home?
Well, that's a good question.
I think he kept it on his tree.
So it continued to be this like shared created project where all of a sudden they're so delighted that for him right.
It's like, what is a community that we actually need each other, that we think of one another.
But, but I think what they did take home was a reflection and a memory of a conversation of different people's moments of happiness look different and have a moment to kind of unpeel and unpack, while still literally giving him this need of helping their friend dress the tree.
Oh, that's so original and creative.
That's awesome.
As a Cirque du Soleil performer, I thought you were going to say he like dressed up as a tree and then like performed all these different moments of happiness.
But even that is amazing.
This is really for, like, the rest of us, you know, the other 99%.
Right, right.
I can handle a glue stick.
For sure.
Exactly.
Exactly.
And so so much of this is like okay, what is my?
He didn't start by saying like I should have my tree trimmed to have anyone over.
I don't know if you've seen these photos or these videos on Instagram of baby showers where people are coming over and helping the mother-to-be clean her home.
Oh, no.
What a great idea.
And all of them are sponging the walls and listening to music together and really feel, rather than being used of use.
It's like, what does it actually mean to help one another?
What does it mean to lean into what your life actually is?
And this is so much, Kate, of your work.
But this is a simple example of just like, what do I need?
And it's not to make your...
Friends, you still want to host.
But it was just the right amount of weight as a host to be like, okay, this is really cool.
And also now I know what to talk about with all these other people.
They didn't all know each other.
So it gave them a way in.
Right.
Oh, that's beautiful.
And I love that you can really approach it creatively.
You're not locked into these scripts that we're familiar with.
You can really think about imagining it anew and making it work for you and making it more interesting and exciting for other people too.
About food, because you cannot talk about celebration without talking about food and the emotional connections that we feel to food.
But first, this break.
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At T-Mobile, you can get four iPhone 17s on them.
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This week on Net Worth and Chill, we're joined by Cole Walliser, the self-taught Canadian filmmaker who turned a 250 dance reel editing gig into a Hollywood empire.
The mastermind behind the iconic Glamba on red carpets, Cole has captured slow motion magic with everyone from Lady Gaga to to Katy Perry, building a brand that Time Magazine just recognized as one of the 100 most influential digital creators of 2025.
Cole gets real about monetizing viral moments, the business strategy behind those mesmerizing slow-motion celebrity shots, and how he's built multiple revenue streams while staying true to his work hard and be nice philosophy.
The moment where I feel like I kind of made it was when I bought a house off making videos.
And I was like, I remember going to sleep and being like, this is crazy.
I grew up in Vancouver and wanted to go to LA to direct.
And then here I am like laying in my bed in this house that I bought by making videos.
I was like, this seemed in just impossible.
Listen, wherever you get your podcasts or watch on youtube.com slash your rich BFF.
And now we're back.
Frances, let me ask you, you're a culinary expert and on a practical level.
How can we use food to tell a story or express our values in a way that just goes beyond the delicious meal?
Like, oh, it's a wonderful apple pie or whatever.
Yeah.
You know I think about this a lot because you know, in my work I do talk a lot about preparation and technique and seasoning and all those things, all those things that make the physical deliciousness of food, we can call it like, the things that make your taste buds and your olfactory senses go ping ping, ping.
The reality is the emotional connection to food is There are different special ingredients for that.
I think those ingredients tend to be remembrance, nostalgia, maybe repeated action.
If we think about, oh, how do we make a meal into a ritual?
Like how do we elevate a meal which you have hopefully every day, hopefully multiple times a day, right?
But how do we elevate that to the idea of ritual?
And I think, if you think about those ingredients of remembrance, nostalgia and repeated action, like that's what can help create ritual.
So remembrance is like, this is my mother's recipe.
Nostalgia is like, this is what we ate.
I remember putting the marshmallows on the sweet potato when I was little, and now I'm still doing it as an adult.
Yeah.
So can you give some examples of simple, food-based rituals that help to connect to the sense of meaning?
Yeah, totally.
I mean, it could be something that you've done for generations in a family.
And it's a tradition that gets passed on.
So someone takes on the task of preparing that dish or that menu, the same way that we remember you know grandpa making this, or we remember great aunt, you know so-and-so making this.
So you don't reinvent the cranberry sauce.
Well, you can.
I think that's a thing, right?
Like nostalgia, is about connecting it to the past, but it doesn't have to be like a facsimile of the past.
So i think there are ways of doing things the way we used to do them, but you can also evolve them.
I mean, the fact of the matter is, you know, your grandmother's prized pumpkin pie recipe probably came off the back of a box.
That recipe probably came from somewhere, right?
It wasn't like passed down from when they discovered fire.
Yeah.
But I guess I would say too, like so for us in our family, like meaning just me, my wife and our child, just our little unit.
We started folding dumplings for Chinese New Year.
And honestly, I grew up in a Chinese American home.
But that's not a thing we really did.
We didn't fold dumplings ourselves.
That wasn't a thing that we did.
But we do it in our family now.
And part of it is because So my wife actually is not Chinese, but she wanted to make sure that when we were early on, when we were like buying children's books,
She's like hey, I want to make sure that our kid has books that sort of speak to stories of Chinese culture and her family's Portuguese.
And so we wanted to make sure our child had both of those influences in her life.
And, you know, in a lot of those stories, they were folding dumplings.
So that's something we sort of adopted for ourselves.
And when we do that year after year, it becomes a ritual.
It becomes to feel like a ritual.
That idea of like repeated action, I think, is really important.
I also think the act... of preparation is so important.
And this is kind of what Priya was talking about.
I mean, I'm inspired by Priya's work so I think about her work a lot, but I often think about the difference between cooking for people and cooking at people.
So like I have to confess I can be a performative cook.
Right like especially earlier on, like After I just come home from culinary school, it was a lot of like check this out.
Look what I can do.
And I think people like today, I think there's a lot of performative cooking.
I'm not performative in a way that means it's insincere, but meaning you're thinking of it as a performance and you need it to go perfectly and you want to hit all your marks and you want to do all this and you want to get the.
You know da da da, da da.
And it's amazing when you can achieve that, but that's for you, right?
That's really for you.
And that's for the recognition of oh my God, I went to you know so-and-so's house for dinner one night and it was like a chef was in the kitchen.
It was amazing.
It was eight course tasting menu.
Like that's amazing, but that's for you.
Your guests will love it.
Sure.
But what are ways to actually bring a guest into that experience that isn't again cooking at them but cooking for them?
And one way I think of that is you can cook with them.
Can you bring them into the preparation?
Can you bring them into... I think of Priya a lot when...
I interviewed her on our show a while ago and she said, a gathering begins at the invitation.
Yes.
Because you're helping people to get into a mindset of what this thing is going to be.
And there are ways, especially for holiday type celebrations and meals, to involve people in the preparation, whether hey, come over, come cook this thing with me or bring this because that will be an important part of our evening.
Not just like, oh, I don't know, bring some to drink.
And that's great too.
You don't want people to feel pressure.
But if it's like a family gathering or like a repeated gathering, a holiday gathering people, I think, want to feel like they're really contributing.
So it isn't an afterthought of like, oh, just bring a dessert or, you know, whatever.
You know you don't want people to feel like no, I'm actually contributing something special and meaningful.
I'm a huge fan of children's literature and young adult literature and I've actually started a couple of reading groups where we read children's literature and young adult literature.
This is like a taste that some people have, like detective stories or science fiction.
And every year I have a holiday party and I say, if it is fun for you and you would like to do it, you are invited to bring a dessert with the theme of something children's literature or a young adult.
They make golden snitches or somebody made a secret garden cake.
And for some people, this is just tremendously fun.
And they love having the assignment and then everybody oohs and aahs and like take some home.
But it's only for the people who find that fun.
And yet it really adds to the sense of festivity because... other people have contributed.
And yet it's a low lift, like no pressure on anybody if that's not their thing.
Somebody made homemade raspberry cordial inspired by Anna Green Gables.
And I'm like, okay, you're not coming to my house for homemade raspberry cordial.
Yeah.
But it was a really fun way for people to contribute.
And it also takes the pressure off the host, right?
In that moment, it's like all of a sudden, everyone's so proud to show their dish.
And so, all of a sudden, you're distributing the love and the care and it's actually much less anxiety producing for the host.
It's like the best way to actually lower your anxiety is to Have sub hosts.
And I love that you say if it's fun for you because it also, then people like it becomes a little competitive.
It's like asking people their like birth star or whatever.
It's like, oh, this is fun for me.
Or, like I would never want to touch, that which allows also for some freeze on and comparison, which is great.
I do a version of this with gingerbread houses.
Ooh, love it.
I just was always looking for – well –
To be honest, I spent all my 20s studying megachurches.
And so I was in some really weird, unusual, enormous buildings.
And then I started finding enormous buildings, both fascinating and like why is there an aquarium in the middle of this sanctuary and why is there a shark in there?
I was like you know what would be great when it comes time to like a holiday is just doing something kind of ridiculous.
So I started making these enormous gingerbread like mega churches at first.
And then I'd have parties where people could come over and like just decorate your like, make your like.
It was starting with like make your house of worship.
And it was always so random.
And I just had enormous candies and and then like a little bit of like Lego scaffolding in case people felt like they couldn't like hold up a wall.
But I've made some amazing things and I've seen some amazing things and also it gave people something to do sure, with strangers.
It's an icebreaker in the middle of a.
Yeah, it was really fun.
That's so great.
But, you know, Kate, let's switch gears for a second.
A lot of times with holidays, there's this expectation that this is joyful and good vibes only.
But life is more complicated.
How do you suggest that people navigate it If they need to make space for grief or loss or imperfection?
It's a time when we're expected to be happy.
And also one of the things about holidays is that people's absences or changes.
There's kind of a spotlight on that.
And that can make it particularly difficult.
What do you suggest that people think about?
Well, I do think there is such an intense cultural script that celebrations, especially in America, coincides with the American story of infinite happiness.
That everybody should always be achieving either, if not bliss, some kind of emotional positive, steady state at all times, or else they're, you know, a failure in some way.
And I think this toxic positivity has a way of infiltrating.
Like it usually also connects with a form of perfectionism that's marketed toward women, where everything has to be.
It has to be Instagram worthy.
Pretty and good and perfect and everyone's expectations has to be met.
And that's difficult because that kind of both perfectionism or positivity doesn't allow for mixed state emotion.
So I think it might be a nice time to just sort of allow there to be a little bit more cracks.
And let other kinds of emotions be, frankly, like as important.
And that gets us back to something, Priya, when you said, like, what's the purpose of this?
Maybe one of the things that people could name is this holiday.
I just want a minute.
To feel sad that my dad is gone.
Because I get beautiful mail about this.
I got one the other day that was a family that was celebrating the holidays for the first time.
And they had a great time, but they realized that they just couldn't quite –
Find a place to grieve the fact that they just lost the dad of the family.
And so they went outside in the backyard and they lit a fire.
And then, for some reason, someone just pulled out a card that was like the worst bereavement card that they'd gotten.
That just said every insensitive thing, like God needed an angel.
And then they like laughed and someone threw it in the fire.
And everyone else just started like writing down or saying out loud every stupid horrible thing that someone had said to them that year.
That is not where I saw you going with that story, Kate.
With the fire under the stars.
I know.
It was like catharsis.
It's real.
But I like that.
What people give themselves sometimes is, if there's a script, just let yourself know.
Okay, right now I'm following the script, but there might need to be a moment where I need to go off script and that might end up being the most beautiful thing that happens.
And then they roasted marshmallows in that fire.
Exactly.
And the scorn of our enemies.
And can you think of any other examples?
Like, is it a moment of silence around a table or are there other suggestions?
And maybe people are wanting to bring this to a family gathering and they're not sure how to broach it.
Sometimes saying, can we do this specific thing is easier.
I totally agree.
And I do think food is such a lovely way, especially that feels like a some kind of memory or memorial where, like grandma's bun recipe, that kind of thing.
But I do think too it's okay to to add a little twist, especially if something feels too sweet that it starts to feel painful.
So, for instance, I know this family where they'd lost their son and they just weren't sure what to do with his stocking.
And they just decided, well, what if I just put it up But what if just, so the year right after he died, they all just wrote little notes and put it in the stocking and they didn't read them because they weren't ready, but they just decided it was like a little moment of hope that maybe next year they could write another note and maybe next year they'd be ready to take something out and read it back as, as a, as a story about a love that goes on and on.
It's beautiful.
That is beautiful.
There's so much intelligence in that.
Yes.
Like giving permission without diving in too deep.
When actually literally, physically touching something, having an actual representation of the person who's been lost.
So that is so powerful.
It is amazing how many place settings, stockings, maybe all this stuff is a good sign for us.
Maybe let's just look at it again for a second time and wonder what could this object mean.
Exactly.
Your story is reminding me of another example.
And it was a way someone was trying to figure out.
It was the first Thanksgiving for this woman, Amanda, without her grandmother.
And I think, sort of like so many families or friends, it's like when you think about it ahead of time And if you want to prepare, it's like well, what is the right level of like touching this but also letting it be.
And she wasn't sure.
So her mother was hosting their extended family and they were still kind of rattled from the loss.
And Amanda called ahead of time, right?
It's also thinking about the gathering starts at the invitation, but also, like really thinking about the intentionality is really thinking ahead of time.
What would we like to happen?
And so she called her mother.
And she said, you know, what feelings do you want to elicit at dinner?
And her mother said, comfort and happiness.
And Amanda then reached out to all of the guests, asking them to send a few songs that brought them comfort and happiness, which she then used to make a playlist for the Thanksgiving dinner.
And it was this subtle and gentle form of invitation at a tender moment.
But then what happened is throughout the evening, when the guests would hear the song and be like that's my song.
It's sort of like, that's my, that's my cordial.
And then, and then, shared why they chose the tracks they did.
And they talked about the concerts they attended and sang, along with songs they had in common with her grandmother.
So it was kind of this like back way in.
And she later said it was like just the right level of summoning that they needed, that allowed them to have the shared soundtrack together that they all contributed to.
That was touching on what at least the mother was saying she wanted to experience in that tender moment.
When that's making me realize like we're really talking about the five senses it's taste, it's touch, it's hearing, it's smelling, it's Seeing.
Of course, like the more that we can feel it in our bodies, I think, the more powerful it is.
So here's a question for all of you.
Something that people talk about all the time is that sometimes the holidays leave us feeling exhausted instead of restored.
What is one common societal pressure or expectation around celebrations holiday or any kind of celebration that you would like to see disappear forever?
And why?
If you could just strike it out, what would it be?
That all the food has to be hot.
Ooh, say more, Francis.
This is the guy who is number one.
This is, yeah, okay, tell us.
I'm staying in my lane, but I would say this.
I think one of the things I do see people when they're hosting, when they're preparing the food or whatever.
It's really hard to get a lot of food on the table hot at the same time.
It is!
And so maybe you don't have to.
Mashed potatoes do have to be hot, I will say that.
Okay.
But if there's only one thing hot, maybe it's just the mashed potatoes.
The turkey, you know, it can be warm.
The roast can be warm.
If you're preparing a menu, think of lots of things that people love to eat room temperature or even chilled.
You can pre-make them, you can bring them out, you can bust them out of the fridge an hour before people show up, and you don't have to be fussing and stressing about getting nine hot things on the table at the same time.
So i would.
It's a little bit um Specific and practical, but I want to spread the good word of a beautiful salad, and a platter of roasted vegetables is a beautiful side.
Excellent.
I love that.
I love that.
Okay.
Any other candidates?
I have strong feelings about big moments being too big.
I mean, really, like historically Christmas, for example, wasn't supposed to just be Christmas.
It really was supposed to be 12 days of Christmas, not to make a living nightmare for every human woman, but in order to spread out the kinds of things you actually want at Christmas.
You do want a nice food moment with your immediate family, but actually there's a great time to go to your neighbors and have a low key thing.
And actually there's a nice moment of volunteerism where it's actually the time to think about those less fortunate.
And I think that having the idea that there needs to be one enormous thing can be kind of overwhelming.
So I do love it when people do things, even just in the not holiday.
Holidays is Just something like a this is a big deal to me party.
Like, oh my gosh, you finally broke up with that boyfriend.
Congratulations, you started menopause.
Drinks.
You paid off a loan.
Cake.
I think it's a great thing to just let smaller moments be bigger and bigger moments bigger be smaller.
So here's my suggestion, because my next book is about the empty nest as a forced reckoning of adulthood.
I'm going to try to convince the world like a lot of people take a trip right after they drop a freshman off at college to be a buffer.
I want to call this the fresh moon.
There's the baby moon, there's the honeymoon, and this is the fresh moon.
It's a fresh start for you as you drop off your freshman.
What do you think?
It's a new celebration.
I love it.
Right?
I love it.
Okay.
And so much of modern life is there's these two different things we're holding.
So mine would be your gathering doesn't have to look a certain way.
Ooh, okay.
And in modern life, so many of our rituals no longer actually serve our need.
So we keep replicating these old forms, but then we feel like we don't have the permission to celebrate what our modern needs are right.
So like what you're doing, the fresh, what did you call it?
Fresh moon, right?
The fresh moon, the divorce party, the... colonoscopy party.
Is that because you know that I... Just put some gin in the drink they make you do before that.
There you go.
And so so much of this is like both being intentional and paying more attention to what is our actual need.
When are we actually feeling tender?
What is it that...
Our ancestors didn't actually have to deal with them.
So there wasn't a ritual.
Most people didn't live till 90, you know, whatever it might be.
Divorce wasn't allowed in those mega churches, you know, whatever it is.
That is like when we have transitions, right?
Gatherings are basically about marking transitions. transitions.
And the best gatherings also transform us.
They take us from a state and they take us to a state.
So when Francis and his wife are making dumplings, folding dumplings with their child at some level, like they're folding dumplings, but they're also taking them that child and the family, from a state of the three of them to a state in which Chineseness is also part of their formation.
And one of the things I love about Kate, your idea of the gingerbread houses is like this was your scholarly research, and experience was coming in.
Like it's like I'm sure it was fascinating to people to be like, oh, why are we doing this?
Why is that woman doing this?
Yeah, we are going to talk about very simple, Try This at Home.
Suggestions about how to transform the holidays, but in a way that's manageable.
But first, this break.
Okay, we're back.
So this is the question of if you could suggest a concrete, manageable thing that the ordinary person could do in the ordinary year to make their holidays brighter and easier or more meaningful, how to make their celebrations more intentional.
What would you suggest?
I can go first.
I have a philosophical one and a practical one.
The philosophical one is pause and ask, what is the purpose of this year?
What is my need?
What does our family or our communities need this year?
And to assume that that question will be different The answer will be different based on the year.
It's like you don't What you need or want, even as a birthday when you're 27, is different than at 36, is different at 72.
So to keep asking the question because the river changes.
So ask that question.
But the second, this is super practical, is...
Bring a tub, a tiny tub of sparkle with you.
What?
And I, this is like my number one guesting tip.
I wish I had it with me right now, but I have this little tub of sparkles and it's like a little.
It's like
You are the glitter.
Face glitter.
Face glitter.
Yeah, yeah.
But Priya, this stuff gets into your life in a way that can't.
No, no, no.
It's very good quality.
No, no, no.
It's very good quality.
Gretchen is like, this is a health problem.
It's like this tiny, tiny little.
It's a tiny tub and I'll maybe put a little bit, a little wink on my, you know eyebrow, or like eyes on the side of them.
And people will always say, oh my gosh, I love your sparkle.
And I'll say, thanks so much.
Do you want some?
And nine out of 10 times they say yes.
And basically sparkle the entire group over time and they've become something together.
Now see, I was envisioning like a container of sparkles that you were like throwing into the air like confetti.
No, no, no, no.
That would be in someone's rug for the next 10 years.
Thank you for the fun fact check.
This is face glitter, a kind of face little tub of face glitter, and I will even take it to like restaurants or and sometimes just put a little dab on and a host system or a host may say, oh my gosh, I love your glitter.
And I will say to them thanks so much.
And I pull it out and like no, you want some.
And they're like And it's just like it's elevated the night a little bit.
It's like a tiny little mask.
It's a tiny little wink.
And it just shifts people into this vibrant mood.
It's a little bit of whimsy.
It is.
That is a wonderful suggestion.
Okay, Frances, Kate, how about you?
Do you have a suggestion?
Mine's kind of, no, no, Francisco, mine's a bummer.
Oh, no, Kay.
Say yours, say yours, Kay.
I think it serves us well if we decide if we are a restaurant family.
I define a restaurant family as a family where the whole family can have the entire meal and no one has to go sit in the car because of a conflict that was had while someone else pays the bill.
Are you a restaurant family?
I do not come from a restaurant family.
I come from a family of highly intelligent wonderful, emotionally amazing people who, when combined, can't usually make it through the meal.
And sometimes we play the game, who's crying?
Oh, wait, is it me?
And that happens so often for completely lovely, well-meaning people that it might be worth just saying are we a restaurant family?
If we're a family where there's going to be no drama, then great.
Have the million courses all in a row and make sure that there's a heavy ritual that goes with it.
But if you're not, maybe a buffet.
Maybe take it down a notch.
I made a rule because I...
I can't do Thanksgiving in the normal way this year.
I just can't.
Last time.
People got upset.
There was just too – it felt too like freighted.
I tried really hard.
I wouldn't say that I felt like all the effort in making everything the way everyone wanted actually paid off.
And I just decided this year –
Pizza.
It's going to be really nice pizza.
It's going to be pizza everyone likes.
But we're not going to take a restaurant family and force them to do something they may not be capable of doing.
So it's sort of like face the reality of your people.
Yeah, and then I will love them as much as the moment when I walked in to the very beginning of that experience.
Oh, that's great.
Ask yourself, are we a restaurant family?
I love that.
Okay, Francis.
I love this.
I have to say mine is a little bit the opposite of Kate's in the sense that, well.
The opposite of a profound truth is also true.
So, yeah.
Dry Sherry.
I really consider dry sherry ice cold.
People don't expect it.
It's delicious with food.
I don't even drink.
I love it.
That's one practical thing.
But the other thing I would say is... Wait, wait, wait.
What?
Dry sherry?
So just for those of us who are not very sophisticated, sherry is a kind of...
Sherry is a kind of fortified wine from Spain.
And it comes in many different varieties from dry to like cream or sweet.
But the dry sherry, if you don't have a good sort of vibe around sherry, maybe because you think of it as like a drink from an older generation someone who had it was very sweet and syrupy.
But the dry sherry can be sort of very cold and it's delightful wonderful, and I actually like the stuff in between called the Oloroso, but it's like kind of yellowy, it's kind of like Funky tasting.
I love it.
I don't even drink, but I just love the taste of it.
But the other thing I was going to say is thinking about Priya's question of ask yourself what's the purpose of this this year.
Sure.
And this is a year where I have felt very profoundly like...
All you have in this world is each other.
I've been thinking about that a lot.
I've been feeling that a lot.
I've been wanting to gather with people more, spending more time with people.
And this thing, again, I think of if you're going to have people over...
Have them be a part of the preparation.
Have them be a part of it.
Cooking with people does not come naturally for everyone.
I was a terrible cook cook with people person.
I was very controlling.
Everything had to be just so like if you stood in the way between me and the stove and the sink when I need to get the pasta out of the water, I get really like, really agitated.
Watch out.
Yeah, you know, and I just had to like grow up.
Part of it to me, I was like, grow up, dude.
But the reality is like, it's a learned skill, but practice that skill.
Is there a food you'd suggest that lends itself to that?
A dish?
Oh, I don't know.
Well, that's a great question.
I would think Anything that is very time sensitive like has to happen in a precise window.
I would probably not try to do with people.
But get people over and make a beautiful stew.
Make a beautiful braise that can go in the oven for several hours.
So you can ask, hey, will you peel the onions?
Will you chop the carrots?
Will you do this?
Hey, can someone make a drink for us?
Think of a dish that has multiple steps and components and set people on one of the steps, and I think there is something to that sense of contribution that is extremely satisfying to people in addition to oh, we can all just kind of hang out and gossip or catch each other up on our lives or so on and so forth.
I have a children's book for you.
This is going to tie together our whole conversation.
Stone Soup.
Oh, Stone Soup.
Oh, that's a wonderful.
Well, and it's a story with a twist, which we will not give away the twist ending.
But for anyone who does not know, the famous story of Stone Soup, that is a wonderful.
That's a wonderful story.
Wonderful story.
And thank you, Priya.
Talk about like bringing all the strands of this conversation together.
That is wonderful.
And I think the bottom line is do it.
However it works for you.
Just bring people together and just relationships are so important to our happiness and we can make these moments work for us, whatever that looks like.
And that is it for this roundtable discussion of Intentional Celebration.
Thank you to Priya Parker, Francis Lam, and Kate Bowler.
Aw, thanks, guys.
Thanks, everyone.
Thank you for having us.
And as we close, listening to all of this advice, the thing I would most say is just...
Host a gathering you want to attend.
Yes.
And if you're like, wait, wait, wait, I wish I could just do that.
You can do that.
You can do that.
The best gatherings start as jokes.
The best traditions start as someone literally being like.
I wish we could just do a Whitney Houston drum contest.
And then they do it.
So find your energy.
The Thanksgiving pizza.
Yeah, the tradition starts now.
I'll let you know.
I'll let you know how it goes.
And thanks, too, to our producer, Chuck Reed.
Remember, the best time to start a happiness project is 20 years ago.
The second best time is now.
