From the brains behind Brains On, it's Smash Boom Best. The show for people with big opinions.
Hi. I'm Molly Bloom, and this is Smash Boom Best, the show where we take two things, smash them together and ask you to decide which one is best. Today's debate is a showdown between two loveable characters.
One is a playful pup from down under, and one is a giggling ticklish monster.
here, it's Bluie versus Elmo!
For team Bluie, we've got the writer of the forthcoming book The Bluie Years, it's Catherine Van Arendonk.
Blue healer, heart stealer, go blue!
And representing team Elmo, it's culture writer and podcaster Margaret H.
Willison. Elmo is red, and losers are blue.
Whoa!! And here to judge it all is Emma from Austin, Texas.
Emma has three cats and a collection of Freshwater Fish is an avid listener of Smash Move!
best with her two little brothers, hi, guys, and has a passion for making her own earrings.
Hi, Emma. Hi, how are you today?
I am great. I'm so happy that you're here.
So Emma, you clearly love pets.
Last time we talked to you, you were hoping to procure a pet python, did your dream come true?
Sadly, it did not. That is still in the making, but I have not gotten one yet.
It's only a matter of time.
I'm sure can you please tell me the names of your cats.
I have Rex and Cinnamon and flitwick.
Oh Do you have a favorite or do they all have their own spot in your heart?
They all are super special But I think if I had to pick a favorite I would go with my cat Flitwick because he reminds me of Harry Potter Fair and I know that you are a clarinet player in a very good marching band Can you tell us a little bit about what it's like to be in a competitive marching band?
It is pretty exciting.
We get to go to all these different competitions throughout the years, and we actually just recently went to our first competition of this season, and we placed sixth at the most competitive marching contest in the U .S. That is so cool.
That's very cool. Yes, okay, so do you have any advice for our debaters today?
I love puns and always try your best to have fun.
Will Emma side with Katherine or Margaret?
Only time will tell, but first, here are the rules of the game.
Every debate consists of four rounds — the Declaration of Greatness, the micro round, the Sneak Attack, and the final six.
After each round, our judge, Emma, will award points to the team that impresses her the most, but she'll keep her decisions top secret until the end of the debate.
Listeners, we want you to judge too – mark down your points as you listen.
At the end of the show, head to our web site, SmashBoom .org, and vote for whichever team you think won.
Alright. Catherine, Margaret and Emma, are you ready?
Oh, yes. Absolutely.
Let's go. Let's do it.
I can't wait to hear everyone's arguments.
Then it's time for the...
Declaration of Greatness In this round, our debaters will present a well -crafted, immersive argument in favor of their side.
Then they'll each have 30 seconds to rebut their opponent's statements.
We flipped a coin, and, Kathryn, you're up first. Tell us what makes Bluey totally paw -some.
Hey friends! And welcome to this year's Disney D23 Expo!
This mega -convention happens once a year in California, and it's where all the new movies and games are announced.
Plus we get to celebrate the biggest and most exciting characters in the world!
Woo! And there are thousands of fans here waiting to meet their favorite characters.
Oh, the energy is just incredible.
Let's go. Over here we've got an avatar booth.
Whoa, it looks just like the movie.
Yeah And over here, we've got Baby Yoda.
Hi. Oh those ears, so cute Wait, hang on.
Who's that there with the huge crowd lined up around them?
Oh my Biscuits It's Bluey and Bingo!
We can meet them? In person?
Oh and I get to see inside their house?
Bluey! Bingo! Over here!
Yeah! I'm your biggest fan!
Oh, this is the best expo ever!
That was a dramatic reenactment of something that actually happened at this year's Disney D23 Expo.
At a convention chock full of exciting attractions and big stars, huge crowds lined up for a chance to meet their two favorite pups, the boisterous blue healer dog, Bluey, and her little sister Bingo.
The hit Australian animated show takes place in a world full of adorable dogs.
In each episode, Bluey and her family play games and do normal family stuff in a way that reminds us that regular life can also be an adventure.
Since it premiered in 2018, Bluey has soared to worldwide acclaim.
But why is this little dog so universally adored?
First, unlike a certain high -pitched red muppet, I could name, Bluey sounds, acts, and plays like a real kid.
She's funny, she's happy.
She can be sad, she misbehaves.
She gets frustrated, she makes up silly games.
She loves her parents and her friends.
Her life is complex and multifaceted, just like all of us, and her voice matches her personality.
Bluey and all of the kid characters in her world are voiced by real kids.
When we hear them, we hear real childhood.
Just listen to me saying a sentence.
Hello, my name is Blueberries and I hate to eat blueberries.
Now here's my seven -year -old.
Hello, my name is Blueberries and I hate to eat blueberries.
Blah, blah, blah, bloop.
So much more fun, right?
And like a kid, Bluey learns by playing.
It's how real kids learn and it's a great way to teach viewers at home.
Think about how annoying it is when someone just tells you a lesson.
And that's why it's so important to share.
Compare that with how much more fun and meaningful it is when you learn something through experience.
And then I'll be Mr. Argo Bargo and then I can also be Captain Peanuts shorts, but I can also be Montessori mustard seed, but I just need to hold them all together while also grabbing me if you'd let somebody else play with mr. Argyl bardel the imaginary continent would not be in such a risk of terrible destruction from your own elbows maybe the coolest thing about bluey is that she brings families together most kid TV characters have a limited age range but adults especially parents legitimately love bluey viewing data from the last year shows that bluey is one of the most watched TV shows in the world,
and it's the most watched show in the entire United States, not just for kids' TV, for everything.
Over 35 billion minutes.
I am a parent, and I like Bluey.
I like it so much that I decided to write an entire book about her for grownups, a book for grownups.
It's because the show is just as much about Bluie's parents, Bandit and Chilly.
Bluie doesn't just show kids how to be great kids.
It's a show about how families love each other, reminding parents that their kids are people, showing kids that their parents are people too.
It's a show about humanity, even though they're, I mean, they're dogs.
No other kids' character can so easily speak to five -year -olds, 10 -year -olds, and parents.
Bluie acts like a real kid.
She learns by playing and she understands the most important lesson a kids TV character shouldn't just be for kids She should be for everyone Well as the healer family says hooray that was delightful Emma what stood out to you about Katherine's declaration of greatness.
I didn't know kids voiced Bluey characters I thought that was very interesting, and how we all bring people together, and it is the most watched show in the US.
I didn't know that.
For real life. All right, Margaret, it's time for your rebuttal.
Tell us why Bluey should be renamed Bowie.
You've got 30 seconds and your time starts now.
I'm so thrilled to hear that Bluey was such a hit at D23.
And when she's maintained that level of popularity for close to 45 years, you know, she can come and talk to Elmo and maybe get a little bit of advice about how to manage that degree of fame and popularity.
I love what Catherine had to say about how Bluey brings families together.
And I do think that's really special.
But I also think there's something incredibly special about characters who exist particularly for toddlers, particularly for small, small children.
And time. Well, I mean, I understand that Elmo has been around for 45 years.
I mean, my question is like, what is Elmo done for us lately?
You know, I think I'm in Target a lot.
I'm seeing a lot of Bluey toys out there.
I'm seeing a lot of Bluey books.
I'm telling you the Elmo diapers, they're not going as fast as they used to.
I guess Elmo was just too busy being an announcer and commentator at the Olympics when you were at Target last, Catherine.
Oh, yeah. How's Elmo's recent late night show going?
They canceled it after two seasons, didn't they?
Look, Rock of the Rock undermined that show and it is not Elmo's fault.
All right, Margaret, it is your turn.
Tell us what makes Elmo so tickle -tastic.
I think the best way to start a debate about Elmo is by hearing from the monster himself, which is why I've come to Sesame Street.
But who are you? Wait, it doesn't matter.
Mr. Elmo is far too busy meeting with fans today.
Oh, I'm not a fan. Well, I mean, I am.
But, wait, who are you?
Uh, I'm Vicky Jive, Mr. Elmo's agent.
Elmo is so busy teaching, playing, dancing, and learning that he simply doesn't have time for a meet and greet.
It'll only take a second.
That's the thing. He doesn't have a second.
From 7 to 11, he's taping Sesame Street.
From 11 to 1, he's testifying before House Appropriations Subcommittee on Labor Health and Human Services and Education.
One to two he's having a working lunch with Dorothy the Goldfish and Cookie Monster.
Two to four, he's recording his cameos for Good Morning America.
Four to six, he's posing for a new toy.
That's embargoed, by the way.
Six to seven, he has a dinner meeting with Grover and Zendaya.
And then by eight he's tucked into bed with a book about himself.
Why is Elmo's schedule so tight?
Because he's that lovable.
But if it helps you, I'm, you know, willing to let you do an Elmo impression when he's not around.
Like this? Yeah, that's, um...
Fine... I mean, it's terrible, but it'll do.
Anyway, thanks for coming by, and thanks even more for leaving.
Wow. Elmo is really popular.
If you didn't already know, he's a darling 3 and a half year old red monster who's been our friend since he first came on the scene in 1980.
There are so many special things about Elmo.
While other TV characters want to tell you what to do or what to think, he wants to show you new things and have fun.
That's why Elmo makes such a good friend.
And you don't have to take my word for it.
just ask Big Bird or The Count or Rosita all of them will tell you that with Elmo by your side you can learn anything.
Why are fractions so hard?
You can do it you just have to take it step by step divide and conquer.
Thanks Elmo and since I have you, why is quantum mechanics so hard?
Because it explains the strange behavior of subatomic particles.
Thanks Elmo I'm going to ace this test for sure.
See, Elmo is one of the best teachers on television.
I'm not just saying that, either.
In one study, researchers found that Elmo did a better job teaching kids than other television characters.
And there's a special reason.
Elmo is an especially gifted communicator.
His way of speaking is sometimes called mother ease.
That's when you talk in a high -pitched voice, with elongated sounds.
It makes it easier for very young kids to understand and copy, which helps them get better at language.
And because of Elmo's excellent communication skills, being his friend is really easy, which is why he has some impressive friends, like Michelle Obama, Jimmy Fallon, Yo -Yo Ma, Beyonce, and so many more.
Plus, he's in over 100 books, several movies, and of course, toys.
Elmo is the inspiration for one of the most popular toys of all time.
Tickle Me, Elmo. Back in 1996, Tickle Me, Elmo was such a sensation that it made millions.
It increased its company sales numbers from 70 million to 350 million dollars per year.
That would be about 700 million dollars in today's money.
But besides all the great toys, games and celebrity endorsements, there's a deeper reason why people are so into Elmo.
He shows us how to love, he's kind to everyone.
He's not shy about showing people when he likes them and he's a kid himself.
He's excited, curious and filled with wonderment about the world around him.
He makes everyone feel special, no matter who you are.
Hi, Margaret. Elmo, your agent told me you were too busy to say hello.
Elmo never too busy for a friend.
I love you, Elmo. I love how much you teach, how much you care, and how much you love others.
And Elmo loves you, too.
Because you're really special.
Haha. Aww. Elmo showering with education and love.
So beautiful. Alright, Emma, what stood out to you about Margaret's Declaration of Greatness?
I like how you brought up how you're able to learn new things as a kid and he does it so much better with the Mother -ese speaking.
Mm -hmm. All right, Katherine, it is time for your rebuttal.
Tell us why Elmo is a no no. You've got 30 seconds and go.
Go. Okay, so this study was done in 2015 before Bluey was out, so you can't even use that comparison.
The congressional testimony that Elmo was so busy with was in 2010 so that's been a while since it's happened.
Tickle Me Elmo 1996.
All of what I'm saying is that Elmo is a classic, sure, but Elmo is also no longer the character that speaks to the moment.
That's not Elmo's fault.
Elmo was not designed for this current media landscape.
But it is so telling that Bluey is now everywhere because it speaks much more to the moment of parenting right now.
I mean, it's great that Bluey speaks to parents.
It's clear that Bluey speaks to seven and ten year olds.
But sometimes, two to three year olds need someone too.
And that someone is usually still Elmo.
Yeah, it's a lovely, important, beautiful short period of our lives.
Okay, Emma. It's time to award some points.
You've heard what Margaret and Catherine have to say.
So you're going to give one point to the declaration of greatness you like best and one point point to the rebuttal that won you over.
You get to decide what makes a winning argument.
Did one team's jokes make you giggle?
Was another team's logic impeccable?
Award your points, but don't tell us who they're going to.
Have you made your decision?
I have. Excellent. Margaret and Catherine, how are you two feeling so far?
Feeling great. Feeling powerful.
I'm feeling great and I'm feeling happy for Emma, because I feel like there's no wrong answer here.
There's a writer answer, but there's no wrong answer.
Well, it is time for a quick break.
Play a quick round of Keepy Uppy and do a Happy Happy dance dance.
And we'll be right back with more Smash Boom Best. You're listening to State of Debate, home to raging rhetoric and awe -inspiring argumentation.
I'm Taylor Lincoln.
And I'm Todd Douglas.
And a little birdie told me it's someone's birthday.
Happy birthday, Taylor.
Aw, shucks. You remembered.
Of course. Here, I got you this.
Ooh, I wonder what it is.
Whoa! It's a logical fallacy.
That's a poorly -made argument.
Yep, it's not just any logical fallacy.
This one is the loaded question fallacy.
Oh, I needed that one for my collection!
A loaded question is when you make an assumption about something and then ask a question based on that assumption.
Yeah, it's like you loaded an assumption into your question.
This one comes with an example.
Take a listen. Okay, Teddy, last thing to plan for the party.
What activity should we have for the kids?
Oh, that's an easy one, Mervin.
Definitely a bounce house.
They're so fun. What?
No, we should get a face -painter, huh?
Yeah, but that involves waiting in line, and it can be messy.
Well, why do you support kids wrestling and throwing each other around in that bounce house?
That's much more trouble.
Wait, I don't support that.
So you don't think we should get a bounce house then?
Hmm? What? I meant yes.
So Teddy, you are OK with kids roughhousing in an inflatable rubber room?
I mean, wait. party foul!
Mervyn is using a loaded question here, big time.
Yeah, Mervyn is making an assumption that kids will fight and wrestle in a bounce house.
But we don't know that at all.
That assumption could be wrong.
Yeah, most kids just want to bounce.
Let them bounce. Wow, what a horrible, no good, terrible fallacy.
I love it. Thank you, Todd!
You're welcome, pal.
We'll see you next time on...
State of Debate! Brains On Universe is a family of podcasts for kids and their adults.
Since you're a fan of Smash Boom Best, we know you'll love the other shows in our universe.
Come on, let's explore.
Smash Boom Best. I'm their biggest fan.
I also love Brains On, a fun science podcast for kids.
Listen, I will play you Brains On.
You will love. Today, we're going to turn our attention to bloodsuckers that do exist. Some of them you've probably heard of, like mosquitoes, ticks, and lice.
But others might surprise you.
Like did you know that some birds drink blood zorp where did the signal go?
must find You're listening to Smash Boom Best. I'm your host Molly Bloom and i'm your judge Emma and we love getting debate suggestions from our listeners, take a listen to this athletic debate idea from Milo.
My name is Milo and I'm from Brooklyn, New York, USA.
My debate idea is Nikes versus Adidas.
Shoot! How will I shoes?
We'll check back in at the end of this episode to see which side Milo thinks should win.
And now it's back to our debate, Bluey versus Elmo.
That's right. It's time for round two, the...
Micro Round! For the Micro Round Challenge, each team has prepared a creative response to a prompt they received in advance.
For Catherine and Margaret, the prompt was...
Life Coach, where they had to dream up a motivational speech inspired by their side.
Catherine went first last time, so Margaret, you're up!
Give us some Elmo -inspired motivation!
Hello Smash Boom Besties!
I'm the creature known as Frankenstein, or worse, Frankenstein's monster.
Monster is a name you get called a lot when you're a brute hastily assembled from other people's body parts by a mad scientist. But no matter how often I heard it, I never got used to it, just because my heart was snatching from someone elses chest doesn't mean it can't break at all.
I would rage and rampage, becoming the monster everyone thought I was.
That is, until I found Life Coach Elmo's groundbreaking video course, Love your monster, Love the world.
Elmo, a fellow monster, showed me that I did not have to be what everyone expected, I could imagine something better.
Through Elmo's sweetness and warmth I learned that if I greeted the world with curiosity and kindness, the world would learn to love me, and I could love myself.
With Love Your Monster, I began to look at my monstrous form in a whole new way.
Was my massive Frankenstein body destined to wreak havoc upon townspeople's homes?
Or was it perfect for giving group piggyback rides?
Would villagers mind that my long arms were stolen property if I used them to clear out their gutters?
If I applied my freakish strength to opening stubborn pickle jars instead of fracturing delicate bones, might people smile when they saw me coming rather than fleeing?
With life coach Elmo's teachings, I went from social outcast to beloved town mascot in a matter of weeks.
Thanks to Elmo, I am now proud to call myself a monster.
Beautiful, Elmo helping monsters with their self -love.
All right, Kathryn, now it is your turn.
Teach us some life lessons Bluey style.
Bluey is an incredible guide to life and I can prove it.
Here are my very real kids talking about the things that they have learned while watching bluey in shadowlands bluey tells you that the rules are what make a game fun and also so much more satisfying to win that's why it's really important to play by the rules in sleepy Every time, Bingo is afraid of sleeping in her own bed but she has a dream about outer space and her mom is her son.
Her mom tells her, I'll always love you, even when I'm not right next to you.
There's an episode called, Butterflies and it's all about how it's not nice to leave a kid behind no matter what they can or can't do.
The episode poo is about how sometimes you have to do boring things before you can do fun things, because sometimes boring things are important.
There's a really good episode called camping, and in that one mom talks about how we don't always know how long people we love will be in our lives, but we can be grateful for them while we have them.
Bluey's dad teaches Bingo and Bluey that ice cream tastes better when you own it.
And because Bluey's not just a show for kids, it's also great at giving advice for parents.
Like remind your kids to pee before they leave for a car trip.
In Bluey, this is called a tactical wee.
Try not to compare your kids to other kids in their class.
parents just need to help kids be the best possible versions of themselves.
And my personal favorite, it's all right if your car is messy and the back seat is full of crumbs.
Your kids don't care.
All they care about is spending time with you.
Oh, Bluey helping all of us be our own life coaches.
So good. All right, Emma, what did you like about Catherine and Margaret's mic rounds?
I loved that you can have self love and love yourself like you're a monster and I loved hearing all the kids experiences about how They have learned from Bluey both excellent micro rounds But I am sorry to say Emma that only one of them can get a point Oh the criteria are totally subjective and totally up to you It's time to award a point but don't tell us who it's going to have you made your decision yes fantastic and it's time for our third round the super stealthy sneak attack this is our improvised round where debaters have to respond to a challenge on the spot today's a sneak attack is called
three -to -one list -off you and your opponent will go back and forth listing characters within your sides universe until one person runs out of names.
Debaters? That make sense to you?
Yes. I understand. Yes, I got it.
All right, we're gonna start with Katherine, then Margaret, then back and forth as long as you can go.
So Katherine, take it away.
All right, Bluey. Elmo.
Bingo. Big Bird. Bandit.
Oscar the Crouch. Chili.
Snuffleuffagus. Snickers.
Guy Smiley. Leela. The Count.
Lucky's dad. Kermit the Frog.
Okay. Lucky. I think Catherine has psyched me out and won successfully.
But I didn't even get to Lucky's little brother whose name is Chuckie.
I was prepared for something so different.
I brought my creative mind, I didn't bring my trivia mind.
But this is really beautiful because Catherine and I have played trivia together and usually she is the one who has this response.
It's so true. I always freak out.
And the scales were really tilted in my favor because Sesame Street is such a deep bench. That's true.
So many good characters in both of these wonderful shows.
And for those listening at home, Catherine and Margaret have been friends for 20 years.
They have a lot of experience playing games and doing trivia together.
It's true. Okay, Emma, it's time to award a point.
You can award the point to the team that won, or you can award the point to the team that impressed you the most. Have you made your decision?
Yes, I have. Wonderful.
Then it's time for our final round.
The final six. In this round, each team will have just six words to sum up the glory of their side.
Margaret, let's hear your six words for the enthusiastic Elmo.
Elmo is love. Love conquers all.
Oh, very nice. All right, Catherine, it's your turn.
Give us six words on why Bluey is best. Elmo loves you.
Kids love Bluey. Oh, very good.
All right, Emma, it is time to award a final point for this final six.
Have you made your decision?
I believe so. Oh, my goodness tally up those points.
Are you ready to crown one team to smash boom best?
Yes, I am drum roll please and the winner is Bluey As soon as I heard Katherine's kids voices I knew I was toast I Know I really I was a low blow but I had to do it and unfortunately, the biggest Elmo fan in my life right now is mostly pre -verbal, but I could have sent you a really compelling picture of my best friend's one -year -old holding her little Elmo doll like her life depends on it.
That's Elmo for you, it's one -year -olds.
Well, I'm sorry that my brilliant children's character speaks more to pre - and early -verbal children.
It does put him at a disadvantage, but I hope that you love and acknowledge his work and how it shaped a world that made Bluey possible.
It is, it's so, so important.
Bluey would never have existed without a character like Elmo first. Like Elmo is this radical revolutionary figure for children's television.
I'm deeply grateful to Elmo.
Good, Elmo's the best. I'm glad we all agree.
Well that is it for today's debate battle.
Emma crowned Bluey the Smash Boom Best, but what about you?
—Head over to SmashBoom .org and vote to tell us who you think won.
—Smash Boom Bess is brought to you by Brainzon and APM Studios.
It's produced by me, Molly Bloom.
—Anna Weghel. —And Aaron Woldesilassie.
—We had engineering help from Jess Berg, Jacob Rockey, and Renee Chavez with sound designed by Anna Weghel.
Our editors are Shayla Farzan and Sandan Tutt, and we had production help from the rest of the Brainzon Universe team —Rosie Dupont.
Rachel Breeze, Anna Goldfield, Niko Gonzalez -Whistler, Ruby Guthrie, Lauren Humphert, Jess Millen, Joshua Wright, Mark Sanchez and Charlotte Traver.
Our Executive Producers Beth Perlman and the APM Studios executives in charge are Chandra Kavati and Joanne Griffith.
Our announcer is Marley Feuerwerker -Otto and we want to give a special thanks to Austin Cross, Taylor Kaufman, Phoebe Bowers, Evelyn and Tatum.
Catherine, is there anyone you'd like to give a shout out to today?
Yes I first, of course, need to give a shout out to Margaret who has been one of the best friends in my life for a very, very, very, long time and I'm so grateful that she is here to do this with me today.
It makes it so special for me and for my kids also who love Margaret very dearly.
I also need to shout out to our friend Andrew who wrote the line Blue healer heart stealer, to my nieces Caroline and Phoebe who are my kids muffin and socks and we love them so much. I need to shout out to Andres' son Henry whose love of Bluie is deeply, deeply inspiring to my husband and then, of course, to my kids, Claire and Alice, who they're just I mean, they did such great work for this episode.
They helped me so much and and their love of Bluie is why I'm here right now.
That is wonderful. Margaret, any special shoutouts you want to give?
I would love to give a shout out also, to Alice and Claire.
I just want them to know that even though they've betrayed me on the public stage this way, they're still two of my favorite children in the entire world and nothing will ever change that.
And then I want to give a shout out to my other best friend Carrie and her wonderful daughter Eleanor.
Eleanor, I need you to know when you're old enough to listen to this podcast and understand the crushing defeat we've suffered here that I fought bravely for you and I always will.
I love you too, Eleanor.
And I love Catherine.
Catherine, thank you for getting me involved in this and introducing me to Smash Balloon Best. It's a terrific fictional universe and I'm delighted to have participated.
OMG, thank you for being here, both of you.
Emma, any special thanks you want to give?
I would like to give a special thanks to all my besties who've helped support me.
Evelyn, Will, Cavia, Chloe, the list goes on and on.
Meredith, also Westlake for supporting me and I would also like to give a mini shout out to Catherine, Margan and Molly for being able to have a great debate today.
Aw, Emma. Thanks, Emma.
Before we go let's check in and see who my little thinks should win the Nike versus Adidas.
I think Nike's would win because Nike's has Air Jordans and they are really cool shoes and it is named after a Greek Goddess.
If you're between the ages of 13 and 18 and you'd like to be a judge or if you're any age and you have an idea for knock down drag out debate, head to SmashBoom .org slash contact and drop us a line!
And, make sure to subscribe to Brainzon Universe on YouTube where you can watch animated versions of some of your favorite episodes.
That's it for this season of SmashBoom Best. We'll be back with a brand new season February 6th.
In the meantime, you can enjoy episodes from all the shows in the Brainzon Universe, including Brainzon Forever Ago, and Moment of Um.
Bye! Bye! See you later!
All the leaders saying bye!
I It's National Rest!
I guess raising your children and having them be such delightful humans is like, a lot of work, and I can't pretend it isn't?
But also it does feel a little bit like cheating.
No, I know, that's fair.
That's fine, I accept that.
