okay i have an amazing story if you're if you're entrepreneurial sam if you have a pulse in your body if there is a single blood vessel in your body you are going to be fired the fuck up after this i don't know what you got what do you have scheduled after this cancel it i feel like i can rule the world
i know i could be what i want to i put my all in it like my days off on the road let's travel all right let's hear it what is it all right so you probably heard of this company boom supersonic yes yeah uh i had the opportunity to invest in this company years ago and i didn't have any money then but also i
even if i did i would have passed on this because it's it's a it's a ridiculous proposition i didn't have any courage then either that was the real problem well like a guy said that uh guy in silicon valley said he's gonna build a commercial airline he's gonna build a jet that can be a supersonic commercial airplane
right that sounds ridiculous Exactly.
So the thing that's going viral right now is former like Groupon product manager, because he worked at Groupon, is LinkedIn literally goes Groupon product manager, then created the first supersonic jet in like, you know, whatever, 56 years.
So it's this insane jump on LinkedIn.
And that's kind of going viral right now.
It got me curious, because I remember back in the day, this was 2016.
Did you see the deal?
Well, I wasn't. It's not like somebody sent it to me to invest.
I could have if I chased it down.
And then actually several times since then I could have invested, but I didn't.
Maybe not too late.
Maybe now's the time.
But I remember watching Demo Day.
Do you remember this story?
Do you remember his Demo Day pitch at YC Demo Day?
I didn't know he went through YC.
I didn't pay that close attention to it.
So he went through Y Combinator.
Exactly. Went through Y Combinator.
Now, I remember at the time it stood out.
Now, YC does a lot more like moonshot type of companies.
back then, it was all apps.
It was all software.
You're making an iPhone app.
You're making like a B2B SaaS tool.
And this is 16? 16.
And there was this one guy there who was like, we're creating supersonic air travel.
You're going to be able to fly from New York to London in three and a half hours.
That's what we're doing.
Remember the Concord?
We're going to do that again.
And he gets on stage.
And I remember thinking while he's pitching, I'm like, how is he going to have traction because every yc pitch ends the same where they show their user growth we're growing 30 percent week over week but it's like going from like you know three to six to nine right like it's like they're they have some
crazy growth rate but it's on a very small customer base but that's always the pitch so remember wondering what's this guy gonna do and at the very end of his pitch he whips out a piece of paper and he goes and as of last night we have five billion in pre -orders thanks to Virgin thanks to Richard Branson and Virgin and we
were like what five billion and it was like a he had an LOI it wasn't actually a purchase order which basically just says uh one day if you can actually build a safe supersonic jet we will definitely buy it we will maybe buy it that's what it means right like when somebody invites me to like a party
I don't want to go to i'm going to start sending lois because an loi just means i'm generally interested but i'm probably not going to do it yeah yeah but still it was impressive five billion still to this day nobody's walked into yc demo day with five billion dollars worth of letters letter of intent
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so let me tell you this guy's story because right now in silicon valley there is a buzzword actually i would say it's kind of like an early buzzword like i would be buying stock in this buzzword because it's about to go mainstream and that word is high agency you've seen high agency floating around
no but that is high agency the new contrarian oh it is i mean it shits on contrarian dude like it runs where contrarian walked we have to sell democratize democratize is done that was the grandfather we have the short contrarian we're going all in on high agency wait long high agency the man in the arena is that just
plummeted had a moment had a moment uh but chamoff just butchered that one so that one's done so all right so check this out so high agency is this word and there's uh our buddy george mac by the way is like all in on high agency like he i think he's writing a book about high agency right now i he by the way
he bought the domain highagency .com and i was like how'd you get that he goes the guy let it expire after 10 years and i sniped it right away i was a very low agency move high agency by him low by the other right it's like in football the low man wins no no in business the high agency man wins and so um
the classic meme which we should put on the screen on youtube is guys the cartoon guy is trapped on an island and he has these like pieces of bark or wood or whatever and he spells out help he's waiting for someone to come save him that's the low agency guy and the high agency guy takes the wood and makes
a boat and rows away um right so that that's like the the gist of this okay but this guy this dude from boom supersonic what's his name blake he is just absolutely dripping with agency all right so let's check this out this guy is soaked this guy is a yeah he's a buffalo wing and he is tossed hand tossed
and hi is he all right so here we go story starts he drops out of high school his parents sent him to a good high school like a nice private school and he doesn't feel like he fits in he doesn't really look like uh get that interested in class he drops out and um so now he's high school dropout Blake
parents are kind of concerned he ends up finding something that he's really into like science and math like he in this like afterschool program or there's some shit like that, but forget that.
First high agency move.
Once he started getting interested in science, math, engineering, he's like, actually, I think I do like school.
I just didn't know what I, I just didn't like my high school the way I was doing it.
But now I found I actually do like to learn.
I want to go to college.
Well, how do you go to college?
You don't have a high school degree or a high school dropout.
He finds that at Carnegie Mellon, they have a special program for high school dropouts who want to go to Carnegie Mellon.
So he applies it. he applied as a junior and he writes an essay about why you have to write an essay, why you didn't finish high school.
And he writes, high school had nothing left to teach me.
He gets in, not only does he get in, he gets the merit scholarship and he graduates with a bachelor's in computer science.
Okay. So what does he do next?
His next move is that he's like, I want to be an entrepreneur, but I don't know what idea I want to start yet.
So why don't I go and work for who I think is the greatest entrepreneur right now?
And that was Jeff Bezos in 2001.
So Amazon is out. The dot -com crash just happened.
Amazon's stock is in the tank.
I'm betting you're looking that up right now.
2001, I mean, it was shit.
It was a dollar. Now it's $273.
Great. So he joins Amazon in 2001.
And his goal is to learn as much as he can from Bezos.
So he's like, all right, I got to build something that's of interest to Bezos.
And at the time Bezos had an idea which was like hey we need to we need Amazon products to show up number one in Google search results.
So Blake builds this automated system where he is buying Google ads for every single product on Amazon.
Like the entire catalog he builds an auto bidder so that Amazon will bid not too much but bid enough to be the top result on Amazon.
Which is one of the reasons by the way that like the you know there's like stories of like there's a story that a company wants you to know and then there's a story that actually happened and i've read a lot about amazon and one of the one of the make or break moments was the fact that they were one
of google's biggest spenders and they crushed it and knocked it out the park because google was underpriced and they were able to get big fast because people think all these companies are competitors they're also co -conspirators right google pays apple tens of billions of dollars to be the default search
engine. Apple and Microsoft invested in Apple when they were big competitors.
Bill Gates basically kind of saved Apple at a time when Steve Jobs needed investment.
And in this case, Amazon is the biggest spender on Google.
Like, you know, that, oh, what?
I thought these guys were competitors.
And Bezos was one of the angel investors of Google or something like that.
Exactly. So he builds this system by 24 now.
He's 24 years old, three years in.
And he was basically working under direct view of Bezos.
So he goes, every three months, I had to give Bezos a report on how we were doing.
And by the age of 24, he's running a $300 million P &L inside of Amazon.
He's the GM of that business.
But even though he's learned a bunch and he kind of cut his teeth here, he wanted to be an entrepreneur.
So, he quits even though he's like a rising star at Amazon.
And he knows Amazon is like a...
Amazon's a winner, right?
Amazon was a winner.
If he had done nothing else but just stay at Amazon, get promoted as an exec, keep getting stock options every year, he would have made hundreds of millions of dollars, essentially risk -free at that point.
But he quits, and him and some guy decide to create a start.
So they create a startup, it kind of fails, they create another startup.
Eventually, they sell that startup to Groupon.
And this is where the LinkedIn part of Groupon comes in, is like this hilarious quote on his Groupon LinkedIn description.
So he says what he does, like senior, whatever, manager of this thing, And then his description goes, nothing like working on internet coupons to make you yearn for doing something that you truly love.
So he, after two years at Groupon, he quits and he decides, you know what, I want to do a company.
I don't know what I want to do it in.
And his whole life, he had been interested in flight.
He talks about like when he was a kid, he was always interested in model airplanes.
His parents took him to a museum.
He was always obsessed with flight.
One of his things on his bucket list was that, you know, in his twenties, he wanted to go Mach 2.
Like he got his pilot's license.
He always just was interested in flight, but it was a hobby.
And he's trying to think of what startup ideas to do.
And his method for figuring this out is, I'm going to write a list of all the ideas, starting with what would be the most awesome if I did it, down from there.
And then I'll just probably cross out the first five because they're unrealistic or impractical.
And I'll probably do number five on the list, was his plan.
But number one was create a supersonic jet.
Because like Elon, the way Elon started SpaceX, you've heard the story where...
He went into it thinking, this is not going to work.
Well, but even before that, PayPal sells.
Elon now has $180 million.
He leaves, and he's just curious, like, okay, what else?
And he's curious, what's the latest with NASA's Mars mission?
Like, I haven't heard about our Mars mission.
Like, is it in progress?
And I just missed it.
Is it launching soon?
I can't wait to go see it.
Maybe I'll fly there and go see it.
I want to see the launch.
I love rockets. And he goes on the NASA website and there's no mention of Mars.
And he's like, what?
We went to the moon like in whatever, 73.
Like, how are we not, where's the next mission?
And it wasn't even on the website.
He's like, what? And he got so upset by that, that the start of SpaceX was actually that he was going to privately fund a mission to send like a plant to Mars.
And then it became like a turtle or jelly or something.
there was some technically living thing.
And it was like, I'm gonna spend $25 million doing this.
It was just like a stunt.
And just to kind of reinvigorate the interest in this.
Same way this guy, Blake, puts on a Google alert for supersonic jet.
He's like, I just can't wait till there's a supersonic flight.
I'll be the first guy to buy it.
And he's waiting and he's waiting.
He's like, is nobody working on this?
And he's like, oh, it must be that it just doesn't, the numbers don't, the math ain't math it.
Like that's gotta be the problem.
So he creates a spreadsheet.
And in it, he writes down the assumptions.
He's like basically like the engineering assumptions.
And he gives himself like a few months to work on this where he's like, all right, let me just dig into this.
So I think it was two weeks where he does like, he goes and buys a book because he's like, I don't know anything about how airplanes fly, but he goes and he buys a book and he creates an Excel spreadsheet.
And one tab was the cost model.
He's like, is it an economic problem?
Because the brief history is we had this thing called the Concorde back in the day.
Have you ever seen the Concorde?
Like, have you ever looked at photos of it?
It looked great. Photos, yeah, slick.
And it was like inspiring and everybody loved it.
And it was the same idea you could get from, you know, here to London, New York to London in three and a half hours -ish.
Yeah, it was like three and a half hours or three hours and 45 minutes was the fastest time ever, which what's it take now?
It's basically double the speed.
So it's eight hours normal flight.
So it was twice, you could fly twice as fast.
And the idea was the Concorde was like this luxury item in a way.
It was priced really expensive.
So this is, you know, almost 50 years ago that it was invented, but it was priced at like $15 ,000 a ticket.
And if you look at the inside of it, the photos, I think it was only like three seats by three.
So it was like a, it was like two or three seats.
It was like 80 something passengers, I think.
Yeah. So there, it wasn't a lot of people at all.
So when you think about it, it's hard to make a lot of money.
High price, low volume, not a lot of routes, only limited number of routes.
But it had all these problems.
Like if you go look up like the problems with the Concorde, right?
Like it was like, yes, it was expensive.
It also like got really hot.
Like there's this famous thing where when they first launched it to do like a PR blitz or like to sponsor it, they had Pepsi sponsor the Concorde.
And so they painted it light blue.
And the Concorde before that was this white reflective material to reflect heat, to not store heat.
But the light blue thing made it where it got so hot inside the cabin that, you know, the hour flight they can only do for 20 minutes because it was like cooking everything inside.
So like heat was a problem.
Noise was a problem.
Price was the problem.
You know, duration was a problem.
I also think there was a really famous crash, too, where it was like, maybe, and I don't remember if I don't, you know, this was years I was a kid, or I don't think I was alive, actually.
But I remember reading about it.
And what I read was, the reality is that it could have worked, or it could have been great.
But the perception was that this thing is dangerous, and it's too radical, and it crashed.
I'm never getting on that.
Is that right? Right.
Exactly. So the, the last, the thing that kind of killed the Concord was they had this flight where during takeoff, the tire hit something on the runway and it ruptured the tire and then the plane basically exploded and it killed everybody on board.
And that was like, all right, we're done with this thing, too dangerous.
So it had safety problems, price problems, heat problems, um, you know, like noise problems.
Cause it would like, you know, shatter windows when it would do with sonic boom.
So it was like, oh, whatever.
So I think in like 2003 was the last flight.
So in about 20 years, there's been no flight since.
Nobody was even working on it.
So he has a spreadsheet and he's like, look, am I just nuts?
Because the way I'm penciling this out, we only need like a 30 % improvement in like fuel efficiency, a 30 % improvement in this one other thing.
And he's like, dude, it's been 50 years.
Like our TVs got better.
Our phones got better.
Our computers got like dramatically better.
Not 30 % better. They got like 3 ,000 % better.
He's like, I'm pretty sure we can make the plane 30 % more efficient.
And then this would work.
So he goes to this Stanford professor.
He's like, you can buy a, I can get a TCL 75 inch TV for literally $600 and it's delivered to my door the next day.
Like if I can do that, we can make a, we can make a chat.
So he goes to this Stanford professor and he's like, he's like, Hey, like, you know, this, we need a 30%.
I, my calculations show when you have 30 % fuel efficiency.
And by by the way, that Concord was designed at a time where like they use slide rulers and like, you know, wind tunnels to test things.
Like, I think we could do this.
And the professor was like, yeah, I think you can.
The math is correct.
He's like, so, you know, you might have engineering problems, correct.
He's like, so, you know, you might have engineering problems, but like the physics are fine.
And so he gets encouraged.
He's like, I just thought I must not know something.
And that's why this hasn't been done.
But it's one of these classic things where like the beginner's mind goes in and they don't see the problems and therefore they do it.
Whereas all the experts just assume, we tried that, it doesn't work.
And so he goes and he decides to create an airplane company.
Okay, so what's the next move?
How's he going to fund this thing?
How's he going to build it?
Because again, this dude just bought a textbook about flight.
He doesn't know anything about this stuff.
So he's like, all right, I need to recruit a right team and we need some money.
So he decides, he takes half of all of his life savings and he decides to fund the company bank account with it.
And he hires up something like six to 10 people, one of which he poaches the former chief engineer of Gulfstream.
And he's like, I thought it would be hard to get talent because here I am, I'm this fucking Groupon kid saying I'm gonna build a supersonic jet that's never been, hasn't been done in 50 years.
Like the last American, new American airlines company that worked was like 80 years ago or something.
So the business plan is a little crazy, probably going to, you know, I think it cost the Concord like a billion dollars to make the Concord.
Like it was like a billion dollar project.
They thought it was 20 million and it ended up spending a billion.
He's like, I think, well, I think we'll need 200 million, but I don't know where I'm going to get all that.
So let me just start by funding it myself.
Did he, did he say how much?
He hasn't said the amount, but he, at one point he's like, I realized like I'm playing chicken with my own bank account here.
He's like, I want to go raise money.
He ends up raising like a million bucks, still almost nothing.
But he gets like a few early believers in.
I have one of my really close friends, Chris, was in that round.
Oh, wow. Did he say what he saw or why?
He's been telling me about it for years, and that's originally how I heard about this.
And he was like, this guy is just magical.
And I just couldn't, I'm like, a Silicon Valley software person starting a jet company?
That just that's really dumb, which is evidenced by dumb ideas being potentially amazing and how that's actually quite common.
And by the way, the airline market, airplane market is super fragmented.
Oh, wait, no, it's not.
There's two companies.
One owns 51 percent.
The other one owns 49 percent.
It's just Airbus and Boeing.
That's the whole market.
Right. So, you know, he's trying to go and basically break up this duopoly in theory.
OK, so let's go back to the.
So he hires this guy.
So he hires a demon.
he's like, actually, one of the surprising things was it was way easier to hire great talent because the bigger the mission, the better the pitch.
So he's like, I had a super exciting mission.
I didn't have a lot of other things.
I didn't have a lot of traction.
I didn't have a lot of funding, but I had a great mission.
I had an exciting project that was basically like nerd porn.
So he's like, any nerdy engineer who worked on airplanes, you could either go work at Boeing or Airbus, and your job is to make sure that the cabin temperature goes down by two degrees so that we could sell more vodka tonics?
They weren't trying to innovate at all.
So if you were somebody who wanted to innovate, this was like the only option.
So he recruits a rate team.
Then he goes into YC, and he was skeptical.
He goes into Y Combinator.
He's like, isn't it just for software companies?
But Sam Altman's like, no, no, no.
We like hard stuff.
Sam's like, I don't know if you're going to get in, but you should go talk to these four other guys who had hardware companies that kind of failed in YC.
But they'll tell you that they would have failed much worse had they not had YC.
So he goes to them and they're like, yeah, it was great.
Let's do it. So he joins and he's like, I realized something pretty quickly.
He goes, YC is architected in this three -month program around demo day.
Three months, you're going to stand on stage in front of all the investors.
You're going to make your pitch.
You got to raise money.
That's the whole point.
And so he's like, what the hell am I going to do in three months?
So he goes, I realized that during YC, if I went to them and I was like, hey, we reduced the drag coefficient by 30 % and this engine design is really awesome.
And like that's our progress update.
We're cooked. And so he's like, I got to figure out something that I'm going to do.
So he comes up with two plans.
He's like, number one, I got to sell the dream.
So he spends a good chunk of his time and money just building like a model airplane that looks sick.
He's like, all right, this is not going to actually help us make the plane, but it's going to help people see that we're making a plane and it's going to look awesome.
How much does YC give you?
like $125 ,000? Yeah, at the time.
He probably just spent all like $100 ,000 hiring some firm making like a really great model.
So he had like a model like a model but then he also had like a gnarly looking engine and he's like we just want to stand there with a big ass engine and then people will walk by be like whoa is that a jet engine?
He's like yeah that's the jet engine we're going to use on our supersonic jet.
Would you like to hear more?
So he's like I need that eye candy.
He needed a booth babe and for him the booth babe was the model and the engine.
So, smart. Because one of the commonalities of Elon and these other guys is you can't just be an engineer in your little engineering hole.
You got to know just enough about the rest, about the marketing, the capital raising, all the other things to survive.
So, he did. The second thing was he was like, I need these purchase orders.
So, he makes a list and he's like, all right, how can I go get LOIs?
And he's like, he makes this list and so he's like, here's his quote.
He goes, I realized I couldn't show up to Demo Day with no sales.
otherwise my goose was pretty cooked so i looked at my sales pipeline and it was united delta luftanza air china and we only had eight or nine weeks before demo day and i thought to myself there's no way i'm closing with fan luftanza airlines by closing in nine years let alone nine weeks so i realized
i actually only had two options a startup airline or virgin he goes so we i went all in and focused all of my era my sales efforts on startups and virgin he goes i went to the startups who are currently operating, and I got one of them to do an LOI.
But it was a company you've never heard of.
But it was the best I could do.
And the hero was 24 hours before demo day.
And the lucky break we got was that demo day was split into two days.
If it was demo day one, he would have stood by stage and said, we have a small LOI from this company you've never heard of.
Luckily, we got randomly assigned to demo day two.
So he had bought an extra 24 hours.
In that extra 24 hours, he ends up getting an email from Virgin the night before demo day that says, you're allowed to announce, we'll take the first 10 planes, we've got options on them, and through Virgin Galactic, we'll even help you build it.
He goes, I fell off my chair.
I almost screamed. I had to read the things three times.
I couldn't believe it.
We went from being the biggest laughing stock on Demo Day to the company that showed up with $5 billion worth of LOIs.
A record that won't be broken soon.
Dude, that's so sick.
What year is this? 2016.
I was reading, I was looking up my email out to try to figure out, did I ever talk to this person?
How do I know him? And the earliest thing I could only find was, I think in 2020, it says, The Hustle actually wrote about him and said, United Airline wants to buy 15 supersonic airliners from BoomSonic.
So it took him an additional two years to get the United Airlines thing.
The next LOI. Okay, so then how did he get Branson?
High agency, baby. I told you, he's dripping in agency.
All right, so what does he do?
So he's like, all right, if I want to get to Richard Branson, I got to go through somebody I trust.
He goes, I'm also not just going to try one path to Branson.
we got to try multiple paths for Branson.
So, he's like, if I get blocked over here, I got this other long shot going.
So, he's like, I had this guy on our board who was an astronaut, this guy, Mark Kelly, you probably heard of him.
So, that guy was on his advisory board.
He's like, he knows Branson.
He's like, so I'm thinking, all right, we got to find a way to get to Richard.
And so, he goes, we asked Mark, what's the best way to get to Richard Branson?
How do we make that happen?
And he told me, he goes, hey, you can't get him interested in you, but go where he's interested in his own thing so what do you mean he goes virgin galactic has this big rollout for their spaceship richard's got to be there so you just got to get there go where he is and they're like okay and so they
get it he's like could you make could you email him and say hey these guys i'm advising from boom supersonic are going to be in mojave when you're doing your rollout you should meet with them when you're there and then he's like um and then he reaches out to the virgin guys he's like hey we're going
to be in town uh to see richard can we come to the rollout and like So basically, they get invited to the rollout.
They get there. He's super busy.
They end up getting 15 minutes with him when he's at brunch with his mom.
And they go up to him and he goes, Richard, they show him what they're doing.
They're like, we're building the first supersonic jet since the Concorde.
We fixed these problems.
We're making that happen.
And he goes, look, we're not asking you for your money.
All we want to know is this.
When this thing flies, do you want a virgin logo on it?
and he goes I think that was the key you gotta ask for the right thing when you do a deal you it's probably gonna be hard to close you gotta ask for what's really gonna help you so we told richard look if you're our customer we will get money elsewhere we don't need money from you and that was crucial
uh basically like the first few babies of these that are in the air do you want them with a virgin logo or not and so that was the thing that got richard branson across the line was making the intelligent ask and hustling their way this is a movie this is a movie i know it works if it ends well it's
a movie well they just did their flight so they just did their first demo flight where but it wasn't a um i think what the test was if i remember correctly was it the engine that they were testing they got the engine because the plane is like a it's a small plane right this was a smaller plane than the real
plane that they're going to have and i don't think it was the full speed that they're going to have but they did achieve i believe they achieved supersonic flight you could check me on that but yeah yeah they achieved the right the cross the threshold They did it safely.
They landed it. And it's their like, whatever, XB1 or whatever they're calling that thing.
Okay, he's got some great startup advice.
Here's the way he described his startup.
I like the way he phrased this.
So he goes, here's my advice for startups.
Pick something that's going to be worth it to you personally.
That is how you stack the deck in your favor.
Stack the deck so that you will be motivated.
And when you look at what you're creating versus if you went to Google or Facebook or Amazon, it should be a no contest.
If you haven't found that, just don't even start a startup.
I did that my first time.
I just started a startup just because and it was a horrible idea.
You should start a startup when you're like, I must make this happen.
And something I've come to believe is that the bigger the idea, the easier it becomes because it motivates you and the people around you and you attract better people to come work on it.
When we were brainstorming this, most of the ideas we came up with were like, no one's going to really appreciate this, blah, blah, blah, blah.
But for us, it was like the most exciting thing we could ever do.
And so that's all that mattered was like, you know, stacking the deck in your favor, doing it as a must rather than a, we could do this.
And so that was, I thought, one really great takeaway.
for business professionals.
Billion Dollar Moves.
It's hosted by Sarah Chen Spelling.
Sarah is a venture capitalist and strategist.
And with Billion Dollar Moves, she wants to look at Unicorn founders and funders.
And she looks for what she calls the unexpected leader.
Many of them were underestimated long before they became huge and successful and iconic.
She does it with unfiltered conversations about success, failure, fear, courage, and all that great stuff.
So again, if you like My First Million, check out Billion Dollar Moves.
It's brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network.
Again, billion dollar moves.
All right, back to the episode.
I was reading this quote by the guy, I don't know how to say his last name, but the guy who wrote Crime and Punishment, you know, like this famous novel.
And he said, your worst sin is that you have destroyed and betrayed yourself for nothing.
And I was reading, I just read that like an hour ago and it's sat with me.
And what you've described is exactly that.
Yeah, I love this guy.
so I don't know but I'm rooting for them I want to invest now because you know why not let's get on the team you know they and there's been a lot of I think there's been well there definitely has been but there's been I think he's wrote publicly about a lot of the downsides of all this which is that this has not been
clear I think he had to take a huge down round and he tweeted out about it I believe and I think his most recent valuation was two billion dollars which was down from the other amount but didn't he tweet about the down round and how like they basically almost ran out of money and how it's almost failed
a bunch of different times?
I don't know. I didn't see that.
I also, I'm different than you.
I feel like you love to know the downsides of things.
Even when a guest comes on, that's one of the questions you tend to ask, which is interesting to me because I never really think about it, but you're always like, what are the honest, like, it's not all peaches and cream, like, what are the downsides of your approach?
Which is obviously an intelligent question, but I think there's something good about being delusional about it too and just be like i have a convenient hole in my memory and in my brain to not even really pay attention or remember those things the reason i ask that is because i have been a victim of this many
times where i go and say well this guy did it why can't i do it and then i start doing it and i think to myself this is way harder than it than it than it looked why is this so hard and and so i always look for those i always ask those questions not to say that someone shouldn't do something but just
to say that it is much more challenging than it appears and that is okay and normal because i remember thinking on my journey this sucks you know this person he never felt that way why do i feel that way like i'm i'm full of shit what the hell i'm not i'm not good enough and then i want to like be reminded
that like this is a normal feeling.
This is a normal problem I'm having.
You got to keep going.
That's why I asked those questions.
Yeah, I think it's totally helpful to have that.
The one that helps me is Tony Robbins does this thing where he talks about dabblers versus stressor achievers versus masters.
And I've talked about this all the time.
I won't do the whole thing.
But like one of the things he says at the end is that anybody who's pursuing anything, no matter what, if you are in it, you're going to hit plateaus.
So forget even downs, but like just plateaus where it feels like it's not working.
The progress is not happening.
It's not happening as fast as you want.
It's not growing. It's not working.
Everyone's saying, no, we don't have that investor, whatever it is.
Right. And the one thing that Tony said that just always stuck in my mind, almost like as a, it's like a, it's like a jingle in a song or like a commercial where he goes, when that plateau comes, the dabbler quits, the stressor stresses, and the master says, ah I thought I'd be seeing you soon hello
my old friend you're here I was expecting you which is like we have this one company we started just a little over a year ago that's just been like up and to the right like this company is I haven't announced it yet but it's like almost a 10 million dollar run rate already profitable bootstrapped in one
year it's like insanely insanely successful but we just hit like our you know first plateau And I feel like when we called it out, it was almost like this kind of like embarrassing down feeling of like, oh, man, like we didn't have ridiculous growth this month.
And whereas I was like, dude, I've been expecting you.
Where is the plateau?
I know it's coming.
I almost don't even trust that it's happening until that this is real until we start to face some of these.
Yeah, that's why I ask those questions is I don't want us as a media or whatever we are to be the ones who I want to be realistic.
Biggest business influencers on iTunes.
Well, yeah. As Spotify's 13th biggest business influencer.
I just want to say that it is a fucking pain in the ass and it's still worth it.
Do you know what I mean?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right.
Speaking of insane agency, speaking of insane downs on a way to a huge up, have you listened to this episode I did with Nick Mowbray?
It came out this morning and I hadn't listened to it yet, but I went and like saw, I saw it pop up this morning and I went and Googled his company and I own a ton of the toys that he makes.
Like, not my kid, me.
So he owns mini brands.
You bathe with the RoboFish?
Well, we have a RoboFish actually, my daughter does.
But I told you about mini toys, right?
Oh, that's his? Mini brands, he owns mini brands.
And so my wife is fucking weird and when she was pregnant and not feeling well, I would go and surprise her by buying these mini toys, which is the stupidest thing ever it's just like a miniature it's a ball full of miniature things like a miniature can of coke a miniature kitkat a miniature notebook
the weirdest shit and people love it and then the other thing loves those dude i don't know why my wife like loves these 32 year old loves those dude you know what i did was i i went and bought like literally 300 worth and i hid them in my drawer and whenever like she had a bad pregnancy day when she
was like uh sick or something i would go and get one and be like i got something for you it was like i was like you know i had like a secret stash and then also he makes these electric water guns that i went and bought uh last summer that i would shoot at my daughter like messing around have you seen
the electric water guns i think it's hilarious how into the toys you're right now uh could i tell you the biggest oh holy shit moment from the whole thing well you got to tell the background it's from what i know it's two brothers in new zealand that have a toy company that does like three or four or five
more than that more than that so let's just let me start with this.
We have interviewed, I don't know how many, 200 guests on this podcast, 250 maybe?
Hundreds. Billionaires, millionaires, young, old man, woman, whatever.
Criminals, not criminals.
Criminals, non -criminals, guys you don't want to hang out with, guys that you don't want to hang out with, right?
There's a lot of people we've had on this podcast.
He is at the top of the mountain.
He's number one. My number one most impressive entrepreneur of all of them.
I was blown away. He has the scrappiest hustle story.
And like his bottom was like the bomb.
Literally living on a dollar a day for years.
Literally, this is how funny this guy is.
So he is, okay. Now I'll zoom out.
Now I'll give you the context that you wanted.
But like, I just needed to say that, that out of every guest I've ever had on this podcast ever, He is the number one most impressive founder that I've ever had on the podcast.
Okay, and we've had some cool people.
No offense to everybody else.
All right, so... But sorta.
Story, yeah. But know your place.
With all due respect, you fucking suck.
Okay, Robbins. I found Batman.
This guy, he's the wealthiest man in New Zealand.
He's got a company that him and his brother started, family -owned, bootstrapped, self -made billionaire.
there. They do a few billion dollars a year in revenue.
They do a billion dollars a year in just profit.
I like that. And they've been doing that.
They never had outside investors.
He has dominated the toy industry.
So he built the most profitable toy company in the world.
He then built the fastest growing diaper company in the world.
You ever heard of Rascal's Diapers or Million Moon at Target?
Yeah. So you got the fastest growing diaper company in the world doing hundreds of millions.
And by the way, he made that while he was on sick leave he got his intestine removed because he got crohn's disease and while he was on his sick bed laying there he's like oh i guess i'll just dominate diapers now i even say i need a diaper that's what happened so he creates the fast growing diaper company
creates the fastest growing hair care company on tiktok now wait what he's monday hair hair care or whatever he owns monday um not only all that he now is building the largest factory in the world bigger than the Tesla factory, bigger than all that where robots are going to build houses autonomously
and that's what he's doing.
He's building houses with robots now self -funding the whole thing, by the way problem, I asked I was like, is that just got to be hundreds of millions of dollars of self -funding?
And he just laughed So take that for what it's worth.
Let me now tell you, okay, so that's what the guy does Can I tell you some of the just holy shit stories from this thing?
Yeah All right, so the dude's 18 years old and he, like, after selling door -to -door in New Zealand where they lived, trying to sell his brother, like, invented this hot air balloon toy at a science fair and his brother, his older brother, and put him to work and was like, yo, you need to go sell this door -to
-door. The dude, they were like, you know what?
We need a factory. And they're like, oh, all the manufacturing is in China.
So they moved to China, but the hilarious thing is...
At 19? At 18, I think.
18, 19, something like that.
They go to China. That's the story where they sleep in the bush outside the airport because the airport lights were too bright.
So they leave the airport, sleep in a bush, get bit by mosquitoes.
They have no money.
So they're like, they're just on their own.
And so he, I was like, oh, so you found a manufacturer in China that you scaled up.
He goes, what have you found a manufacturer?
We went to China and then built a factory on the side of a river.
Like we just went with like wood and like a hammer and we built a factory.
And I was like, what was the point of going to China?
You know, you go to China to, their factories are already there he's like yeah we didn't understand that like we we just went there and we just built our own factory on the side of a river and we found this like mom to make us food for two r and b a day 30 cents a day and then she had some people that could come
work in the factory and then we just had we had our own production line and it sounds like a it sounds like a shed yeah they literally built a shed and then they just kept scaling up the shed and he's like my brother didn't come back home for like eight or nine years he just slept on the floor of the factory.
And I slept on the floor, too, then except for when I did a sale.
All right, so how did they win?
He's like, and our product sucked, by the way.
This is one of my favorite things.
It's like everybody who makes it, they're like, the key is just to have a great product.
And then if you're a founder, you're like, dude, what?
Like, okay, I made a great product.
Now what? Nothing's happening.
And, you know, people tend to leave out the manual work it took, the lucky breaks it took to get the thing to start working.
What was the product?
It was like a plastic hot air balloon toy or what?
Even worse. So it starts with a hot air balloon.
Quickly, he's like, again, we didn't know anything about anything.
So we go, we build a shed by the river in China.
We're making our hot air balloons.
Then we've learned you can't even export a hot air balloon.
He's like, literally, it's a fire in a tiny can.
Like, we can't sell that.
So he's like, we realized that was a waste.
So we got to come up with a new toy.
And again, everybody, everybody tries to say we're so innovative.
So we innovated. Innovation is great.
and then we made a great product he is the opposite he's like so we found that this other toy was selling so we copied it we ruthlessly copied that toy and we made a shitty version of it because we didn't know anything about manufacturing dude so this like white guy moved to China and out Chinesed the Chinese
the Chinese exactly exactly he was like dude we lived on a dollar a day I was like so you I was like I heard the story you ate McDonald's every day and he's like every day I wish McDonald's was our Christmas treat we would go to McDonald's and he's like For years, I just remember saying like, Merry
Christmas, bro. He's like, Merry Christmas, bro.
We would cheers our fries.
He's like, I used to eat half the fries and take it back and be like, hey, there's only half the fries in here.
You guys gypped me and get like a second serving of fries.
And he's like, that was the treat.
Dude, I used to do that all the time at bars.
I would order an iced tea and be like, you made the Long Island iced tea wrong.
You forgot the liquor.
And by the way, he was not saying this out of pride.
He was like, I was almost like a therapist because this guy's never done a podcast, by the way.
This was the first podcast I think he's ever done.
And there's no stories you could find of this guy.
Like, I went to do the research.
There's no, like, oh, him, you know, normally we do research.
You go watch the three most watched podcasts that they've done and you pick up a bunch of stuff.
He had zero. He had to download Google Chrome to do the interview.
He's like, it's not letting me do this.
And we're like, what?
And we're like, just open Chrome.
He's like, what's Chrome?
And I was like, you're a billionaire.
You don't know what Google, what do you use?
And he's like, oh, I think I have Chrome.
Hold on. He's like, oh, I got Chrome.
Okay, got it, got it.
Let me switch to my laptop.
up. This is going to work.
Okay. Was he fucking with you?
No, he was that serious.
And so I was like, dude, why don't you do any podcasts and tell your stories?
Like, I don't know.
I just never did. Hey, can I tell you a Steve Jobs story real quick?
So Jobs once said that design is not just how something looks, it's how it works.
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I go and I open up a Mercury account.
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It's got all the features that you need.
And you could just tell it was made by a founder like me, not a banker somewhere who hired a consultant in an agency to try to make some tool.
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All right, back to the episode.
What motivates this guy?
He's just a maniac, dude.
He, uh, he's like - Was he, was he calm?
Very calm. I felt like it was almost like a therapy session because I'm asking him about these times back in the day and he's almost like, yeah, I don't know what we were doing or why we were thinking that.
Like he just doesn't think about behind.
And he was like, not, he's like, yeah, we, you know, we, we were super scrappy, but he's like, we were also a little mentally ill.
Like we just were, he goes, we were so naive that naive is not even the right word.
So he's like, for example, we got sued for millions of dollars.
Cause again, we like copied someone's toy.
And so it's like a $2 million lawsuit.
It's either going to bankrupt the company because we don't have $2 million or you have to fight it.
But the lawyers that we talked to were like, it's going to cost you a million dollars to fight this.
He's like, dude, we had like a few thousand dollars.
He's like, so I go to Colorado and I find this lawyer.
He's like, this guy eventually got disbarred, but I find this guy, Chad.
And I tell him, Hey, I'm going to do all the legal work.
You put your name on this and we're going to fight this this way.
And I paid him $50 to put his name on it.
And I did all the lawsuit stuff myself, just like Googling.
And we fought the lawsuit that way.
And then Chad got disbarred later for other reasons.
He told the story of he's like, dude, we got this.
We got this. He goes, I used to, I was like, so how did you sell the thing?
Like, how did you sell these toys?
You're saying the products up and you were copying somebody else.
So why would anybody buy this?
He goes, I emailed, he goes, I made a list of every retail buyer of every store in every region of the world.
And I emailed or called them every single day.
He remembered the name of every buyer.
This is from like 15 years ago, because he would call or email them every day.
He goes, the Walmart buyer.
He's like, I would call her or email her every day.
He's like, I never forget her.
And he's like, one day she emailed me being like, Nick, I do not need your daily email about your product.
And he goes, well, listen, Jen, I'm sorry.
It's just a great product.
And I just had to tell you about it because we've really got some exciting things in the pipeline.
It's like I just didn't let up.
Finally, he goes, she just sent me the two most beautiful words in the English language, send sample.
And he's like, we're in.
And he gets this like Walmart order.
And by the way, actually before that, somebody's like, hey, do you have your showroom in Hong Kong?
I'll send to one of my buyers he goes of course of course showroom Hong Kong yeah oh yeah we got one of those he's like what's a showroom in Hong Kong so he goes to Hong Kong he rents this little cubicle where they put like escorts in you know it's like the red light district and like it's enough for one
human body and he just sleeps in there he goes of course of course showroom Hong Kong yeah we got one of those it's like what's a showroom in Hong Kong so he goes he rents this little cubicle where they put like escorts in you know it's like the red light district and like it's enough for one human body
and he just sleeps in there because he doesn't have enough money for our hotel sleeps in there and then when a buyer shows up he just pops out and he's like hey it's me whatever you would like to see our showroom and they're like yeah we're what is what is this this is a dressing room for like one person to
change clothes and he's like yeah yeah toys are inside here you go and he ends up getting this order from walmart for uh two million units and he's like oh my god that's 30 million dollars he's like this is amazing at that time the revenue was like 150K a year.
And he tells this story about how he's like, first he's like, I go and he goes, I learned two words of Chinese, too slow and go faster.
Cause our factory, our little old factory by the river had never produced 2 million units of anything.
And he's like, so we had to produce 2 million units of this thing.
I come home, I take over the factory.
Cause I'm just like, my brother's like not working fast enough.
And then he's like, and then Walmart basically cancels the order after he's like super deep in it.
And he like took a loan from the, like, from a contract manufacturer to, like, help him build the 2 million units.
And then he, like, goes and harasses the Walmart buyer to, like, hold up to the end of the bargain.
And he's like, by the way, product doesn't sell.
Not a single one. He's like, it retails at $30.
Discount to $25. Discount to $20.
Discount to $15. He goes, it ends up selling for 50 cents.
He's like, it was, like, concrete on the shelf.
How'd you find this guy?
I don't know. I read something.
I must have heard something or read something.
Because about a few years ago, we talked about him on the podcast.
Yeah, I remember that like three years ago.
Ben has emailed him, no joke, he showed me, 17 times over the next 18 months to get him to come on the podcast.
Dude, this guy sounds awesome.
I need to go and watch this.
You got to go listen to this episode.
It's not like, you know, he's not like Mr.
Super Storyteller or Mr.
Suave. I mean, he's a great guy, but like he just tells it like it is.
But if you listen to this thing, I don't know how long it is, Like 90 minutes or something like that.
I mean, it is one of the most incredible entrepreneurial stories I've ever heard.
By the way, all right.
So let me tell you a story now because we, this is Chinese related, but we're just telling stories about interesting people.
I got to tell you about someone I just read about.
Have you ever, have you even been to New York?
Have you ever been to New York?
Like Manhattan? Yes, I have, yeah.
Okay. When you were here, did you see these crazy guys on electric?
They're like, they're called electric bikes, but they're basically motorcycles.
They're like the Uber Eats and DoorDash drivers.
No, I don't think that was happening then.
Dude, so in New York, like four years ago, it just popped up that all of these Uber, there's 70 ,000 Uber Eats and DoorDash people in New York City, in like the Manhattan and Brooklyn area.
It's like, and they're all riding these electric bikes that fly.
They look like they're normal bicycles, but these things literally go 60 miles an hour.
And I ride my bike everywhere when I'm in New York City.
And like I've, these fuckers have almost killed me tons of times and they're, and they're dangerous.
They're really dangerous.
And what you'll notice is that they all have like these gloves on their bikes.
Have you ever seen these like door dash drivers in the winter?
Yeah, I've seen that.
Well, they keep them there in the winter, in the summertime too.
And the reason they do that is because underneath those gloves, they have like a motorcycle style acceleration, uh, like a twisty thing on the grip, which is illegal.
You can't have that because that like, you know, at what point are you to go from being a bicycle to being a motorcycle where there has to be rules and so there's there was this weird thing where i'd be walking around and i'm like i even would ask these guys what is this bike and they don't speak english
like they couldn't tell me but i was like i want to know what this bike is that goes 60 miles an hour and has like a twisty throttle thing because this is sick i want one and so i started doing research around it and i think i talked about it in the podcast i couldn't find out what it was well two or three
days ago an article came out and it told the story about what this thing was, and it's pretty ridiculous.
And so basically, there's a guy who comes from China.
He's got a too hard of a name to pronounce, but his American name is Andy.
He comes in 2011. And when he comes, he basically admits that he goes, I paid a guy 45 grand, and he smuggled me in from Mexico.
I came illegally. And then in this article, they even linked to a rap video that he did when he was broke and poor.
And he was like, I decided to come to America to make it rich that was like the chinese lyrics of this video well it turns out the first thing that he did was he noticed that there was all these uber each like bike riders and they get punished if they don't bring or if they don't show up in time like
if you don't deliver quickly you get like docked like you don't get the full rate and so he starts importing he i think he borrowed 12 grand from someone and he starts importing these electric bikes from china and he opens up a shop and one of these shops was right by my house where i used to stay in brooklyn
years ago and i would always see these guys, they would hang out outside the shop.
Well, what I didn't realize was that he scaled this thing so fast to where he started having literally 30 different stores all around Manhattan to where he's selling these things.
It's called Fly E -Bikes.
He's selling these E -Bikes that go 40, 50 miles an hour.
They're only $1 ,000.
It's incredible. They're incredibly illegal.
like uh like they literally just don't follow any of the laws but if you look at the under there's like a when you order these bikes there's like says something in the plate it says like there's literally like a metal plate and it says like you know this uh meets this usa standard this and that and like
in the article someone was like nobody checks that it's just basically an honor system and that we hope that you do it but there's no one actually checking thing these things But the guy ends up, Andy, selling 70 ,000 bikes in four years.
And a few months ago, I think it was in September, he had the audacity to take the company public.
And so it goes public on the NASDAQ.
And it's I think the ticker is F -L -E -Y.
And you can see the ticker.
I think that you can see I put all their financials in this document.
But the year before they went public, they were doing like $30 million in revenue and like $2 or $3 million in profit.
But they're getting sued like crazy because their bikes catch on fire because they follow no rules.
He basically admits that he's like, yeah, we're cowboys.
We build first and we ask questions later.
And so like homes have built down.
People have actually died from the batteries catching on fire in someone's apartment and burning the fucking apartment down.
And they're getting sued.
and one of the lawyers suing them he's got this quote where he's like dude six years ago these guys were busboys serving dishes or cleaning dishes in restaurants now they're running a publicly traded company they know nothing about building bikes they're just like getting the cheapest shit they can over
here and it's all true by the way they're insane but i cannot believe they went public and in like the the one of the i went and watched listen to this i listened to one of their reports or when investors were interviewing the CEO, Andy, before he took it public.
And they're like, why'd you go decide to take it public?
And he says he was inspired by the movie Wolf of Wall Street.
And that's why he decided to take the company public.
He says that in a YouTube video.
In a YouTube video, he says, I decided to take it public because I saw Wolf of Wall Street.
And so now, because of all these lawsuits and because the company is just like shit like it's just like they're breaking so many laws they just do whatever the hell they want the the stock has crashed we need a spinoff pod of just absolutely renegade chinese founders just doing doing things that that we
would never dream of i wouldn't subscribe to that instantaneously well he's like the real life jin yang from uh silicon valley where like he's just sitting there smoking cigs and like someone's like you know you really need safety stuff and he's like who says like you know what i mean like he says who founder right
right now the deep seek founder is gonna get a lot of pub for this same reason it's just this guy's hilarious but it is actually inspiring that like all these dorks are like we got to do this we got to do we got to like have this process we got to do this and meanwhile you got this guy nick moving to
china and not knowing shit and then we got this chinese guy moving to new york and not knowing shit and like it's and it still works and his company by the way he started a electric bike company it does 30 million in revenue and 3 million in income so like it's not nothing yeah so and he started with twelve
thousand dollars uh pretty badass though besides the fact that it's um you know like incredibly illegal and dangerous and people are dying but besides that it's like kind of an interesting story because I've always wondered where these freaking bikes have come from I got to give a shout out to curb
they have um an article and it's called the moped king how an ex -delivery worker upended the streets of new york city for better and for worse um and it's called fly e -bike e -bike yeah yeah yeah i just need the spin -off somebody needs to make the uh not not the right way to do it but still impressive
version of my first video uh yeah we went from like we went from like um inspiring who cares about money we're gonna like make travel better to um hardcore shark does whatever it takes but still ethical but like i'm gonna get rich and just conquer the world to uh fuck everyone get paid the full journey
exactly yeah all right that's it that's the part that's it that's the pot all right i feel like i can rule the world i know i could be what i want to i'll put my all in it like no days off on the road let's travel never looking back Hey, Sean here.
A quick break to tell you an Ev Williams story.
He started Twitter and before that he sold a company to Google for a hundred million dollars.
And somebody asked him, they said, Ev, what's the secret, man?
How do you create these huge businesses, billion dollar businesses?
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And remember, Mercury is a financial technology company, not a bank.
Banking services provided by Choice Financial Group and Evolve Bank and Trust members, FDIC.
All right, back to the episode.
