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Okay, let's get started.
Hi, Tricia.
Welcome to Conan O'Brien Needs a Fan.
Hey, guys.
How are you?
I'm great.
How are you guys?
We are doing pretty well, I think.
Yeah.
But we are not the focus, Tricia.
You are the focus.
And, you know, people are sick of hearing about us.
I want to know about you.
I've been told I believe that you're in Minnesota and that your name is Tricia.
And that's all I know.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
Okay.
So maybe you could fill us in about what you do, who you are, you know likes dislikes, the whole thing.
Great.
The whole thing.
Yeah.
I'm in Montevideo, Minnesota, which is in the southwest corner of the state on the prairie.
Okay.
So I've been here about seven years.
All right.
Moved here for my husband's job.
Had no idea where this place was.
Now, are you a native of Minnesota then, in general?
Yeah, I'm from the north shore of Minnesota, up by Lake Superior.
Yeah.
And so, did this feel like a come down for you?
Like, oh, I got to go down to the prairie.
I got to go down to the prairie because of my husband.
Got a job on the prairie.
Yeah.
Was that your attitude?
I was seven months pregnant.
Oh, my God.
Are you guys homesteaders?
Yeah.
No.
Can you help me raise a barn?
I have a barn raising on, yeah, I also live on the prairie.
It's sort of the prairie.
I need help pulling a dead buffalo out of a lake.
I'll help you with that.
You help me with my barn.
Sure.
Well, Tricia, I'm just curious.
So what do you do?
I know you're a you're a mom.
You've got kids.
What other things are you interested in?
Yeah, I work remotely as an investigative crime reporter.
I cover cold cases in Minnesota and the Dakotas.
I'm fascinated by this.
I'm fascinated by murder.
Sona, I think you're a big murder buff.
I like murder.
Hey, guys, I like murder, too.
Hey!
No, I like murder so much that I would either like to murder or be murdered.
I'm up for either one.
It doesn't matter.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
I probably shouldn't put that out there.
That's a bad thing.
Too late.
Oh yeah.
You're going to, they'll replay that if something happens to me with an echo.
I will say I got dips.
Okay.
I'll give you first crack.
Okay.
That's your investigative crime reporter and your focus is cold cases.
I love it.
I love these stories.
How far back do you go with a cold case usually?
So the 1970s has changed.
Kind of become my sweet spot, which is weird because I was born in the 80s.
But it was a really it was I mean, it was a decade of mayhem.
You know, I often think serial killers.
Yeah, I like sometimes, you know, because there's there are channels for music that just focus on, you know, like it's the 60s channel.
It's the 50s channel like Sirius XM does that.
The 70s when it says 70s decade of mayhem.
Yeah.
But then they just play the Eagles.
And I think, yes, it was a time for killing.
Okay, so here's the thing.
I think there were.
What's intriguing about the 70s is that they didn't have the DNA technology yet.
And so people would just go missing and there wasn't a lot you could do about it.
And so to me, it feels like a...
A time of mystery when there's probably a lot of cold cases, right?
Yeah, exactly.
I mean and a lot of times, two people.
Just they were considered to be runaways because, like you said, there was no DNA technology.
And especially if it was a young woman, it was just.
Oh well, she went off.
You know hitchhiking to San Francisco.
Ugh, bitches be hitchhiking.
Sorry, what?
What did you just say?
Bitches be hitchhiking.
Yeah, that felt like the right time to drop in a joke.
No, this woman's trying to solve cold murder cases.
These are young women that went missing and you decide, here's my joke opportunity?
All I'm saying is bitches be hitchhiking.
Trisha, I'd like to apologize because I think what you're doing is valuable.
And if you find someone, these people are in agony because they're wondering what happened to their loved one.
Sorry, Sona.
I would like to at least thank you for giving us the title of this episode.
I was going to say bitches be hitching.
Bitches be hitching.
That would have been cool.
It didn't roll off the tongue when I said hitchhiking.
That's why I stumbled a lot.
That was really why I was upset.
It wasn't that it was insensitive.
Bitches be hitching.
Got it.
So have you had success with this?
I'll wait for the laughter to stop and then say have you had success finding the bodies of lost women in the 70s?
Jesus Christ.
Yeah, we have.
Actually, we've moved.
Well, we've moved at least two cases forward.
One case, a gal from 1974, Belinda.
She went missing and, you know, still hasn't been found.
But there is a main suspect.
And they've reopened her case, and so we could be getting answers.
Okay, let's talk about, because I'd like to help crack this case, the main suspect.
Have you spoken with the main suspect?
Is the main suspect still alive?
Yeah, he's still alive.
I have.
I met with him for an hour.
He's at a secure facility in northern Minnesota for dangerous sexual offenders.
Oh, Jesus.
Yeah.
Okay.
And you went there.
I mean, that's a creepy place to visit.
Was it the kind of situation where he's behind a screen or a clear plastic and you pick up the phone and he picks up the phone?
Yeah.
No, I wish that were the case, but no.
It's disappointing.
I love it when they pick up the phone and then they pick up the phone.
I want him to be in a little mask and he's on a dolly and a straitjacket.
You should talk to a guy who may have murdered someone in the 70s and you're like what phone did you use?
Well, I just... How did you communicate?
I just love it.
It's always the same thing.
One person picks up the phone and then points to it, and the other person then begrudgingly picks up the phone, as if it's not clear to pick up the fucking phone.
Right.
I mean, how else are you going to talk?
They always pick it up and point at it.
I've seen that in 10,000 movies, and I'm not wrong.
It's true.
That's a good point.
Yeah.
Now I'm thinking about and this is wrong, but now I'm thinking about when people visited serial killers at like 1910, 1911 that one person picks up a candlestick phone and points to the other side of the window and the other person picks up the candlestick phone and they're like hello, hello.
Look, I didn't do it, see?
I didn't do it, see?
And they have to still go through an operator?
She had it coming, bitches be hitching.
Yeah.
I want Wrigley 5025.
Yeah.
Enid, can you put me through?
Bitches be hitching.
Hold on, please.
Zing, zing, zing, zing, zing.
Okay, you know what, Tricia?
You don't deserve this.
This is awful.
This is so stupid.
I hate us, and all three of us are going to hell, and I hope soon.
I hope we go before we die, just so we can check it out.
But Tricia, this is...
I'm going to pull this thing together.
I know I can do it.
What you're doing is very cool and valuable.
And you talk to this person and tell me what it was like to look into the eye.
Do you think this person did it?
I mean, I have to.
I'm not supposed to say, but yeah, I do think he did.
You showed a lot of you showed a lot of restraint there, Tricia.
Well, I'm not supposed.
Yes.
Total murderer.
Yeah.
So you look in this person's eyes.
Did this person have remorse, do you think?
Well, no.
So he and I had been writing letters for quite a while.
And so that's how I got my in.
Unrelated to this?
Yeah.
I was going to say, they were pen pals before any of this came up.
By the way, what are your hobbies?
I'm killing in the 70s.
Hey, maybe I could come by.
Do they have a phone there and a plastic...
Divider?
I'll pick it up, but you don't pick it up right away, and then I'll point to my phone.
Trisha, I'm sorry.
We're going to get it back.
We're going to get it back.
You know what?
Can I just say this is Trisha's fault for calling us?
Yeah, that's true.
There are so many legitimate places to call.
Actually, could you pick up the phone?
Yeah.
Also, I said for calling us.
She's on a Zoom.
I'm sorry.
Trisha, I will reign this in.
I promise you.
You started writing back and forth and then you decided to go.
What made you want to go and meet with this alleged or possible killer in person?
So at that point um, we knew i'd been working with belinda's family and we knew that he had been named the main suspect and so we had obtained his police files from he had three women who escaped from him, oh god, and yeah, i mean like really bad stuff, like he abducted them at gunpoint, knife point and had a kill bag and and all three of these women lived to tell what happened to them.
And so Yeah, I think it was more so out of obviously for the story, because you know, writing a story, writing a series about Belinda, you know it was only natural to want to go and ask him some questions.
Yep, yep.
So, I mean, that's why I went there, not for kicks, but, you know, to ask him.
No, you're a crime reporter.
This is despite...
Everything we've done in this podcast.
This is a real thing you're doing and it's invaluable and these are real victims and I cannot believe I'm transitioning us out of that laughing fit.
You have to, though.
But I have to, and I hope that everyone listening understands that we're three sociopaths.
Yes.
I was going to say though, to make you guys feel better, like I laugh with the families all the time.
Like, I feel like people have to have some sort of a dark sense of humor.
So I think it's all right.
Now, so you talk to this person.
I...
I'm curious because I have always had an interest in this subject and I was always wondered how I would do interviewing somebody.
You know what I mean?
Would I be able to get any information out of them or would I just go on too many?
What's your professional opinion of how I would fare?
But I go on too many like comedic tangents or there be about to confess to the murder and I'd have a funny idea and start to describe it.
Are you thinking of having murderers on this podcast?
Well, it's a big genre in podcast.
And if we can combine our humor with murder, we might be the biggest podcast in the entire world.
I mean, I know we're close, but we're not there yet.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I think number one rule is to make them feel comfortable.
I think you would be really good at that.
Yeah.
And you know, making them laugh, doing some bits, would you know, get them feeling, you know, loose.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's key.
That's key is get them laughing and get their trust.
And then maybe they'll tell me something.
I mean, I would maybe I could come with you some point and just that might be distracting, you know.
I think it would be good.
So I only do interviews by myself, but ideally you want to do it in a team, because then you have like a good cop, bad cop and then an observer.
And a very silly cop.
It's good cop, bad cop, like, I'm going to have five minutes with you.
I'm going to beat your face in if you don't tell us what to do.
Hey, man, I'm your friend.
Yeah, and I'm here too.
I'm Goofy Cop.
There's good cop, bad cop, and goofy cop.
Hey, look, I've got antlers on.
They're made of foam.
I do think I think I would be pretty good.
And I'm fascinated.
I am legitimately, all bits aside, fascinated by by what you do.
And I'm also noticing I don't know if you've noticed this, too, but there are couples.
It's usually a couple, or sometimes it's one person who'd been missing since the 70s or sometimes the 80s.
But a lot of times it's the 70s or even the late 60s.
It's this phenomenon that's come up now.
And what happens is there'll be a scuba diver in a lake and they find they're like hey, there's an old, rusty car down there.
And they dredge it up and it turns out that the person was driving home.
And this is more common.
These stories pop up in the news.
One popped up like two days ago.
It's a couple, I think that went missing in the 60s.
And because more and more people are scuba diving in lakes to sort of poke around, they're finding cars that just people were driving home and their car went into the water somewhere.
They're going over or their car went in and no one knew about it.
And everyone assumed they were the victim of foul play.
But that's a thing, too, is just.
There's there are more and more finding people.
Obviously, the women that you're talking about were abducted.
But I'm finding that to be kind of fascinating in this age of there are like, scuba sleuths out there, which is weird, but it's true.
Yeah, no, I've heard of that, too.
And then it's kind of sad too, because in a lot of those cases there's like someone who is accused of doing it was never convicted.
And then after all these years, they were just, you know, in an accident.
Yes, they were in an accident on their way.
It's always freaks me out.
Like, how do you how does your car go into a pond and nobody knew it?
Nobody knew there was a crime scene, but that's happening more and more.
Yeah, there were they're finding things just because things turn up.
But obviously, these are people that were abducted.
And if you do, you think when you're talking to this person and you interviewed them in jail do you think this is someone who might be willing to confess?
Or would you if you went back or if you repeatedly went back a couple of times?
Because what what would they have to lose at this point?
Why not?
Yeah, exactly.
I don't know.
You know, it's kind of weird because you think they're these masterminds, because they've, you know, gotten away with murder, or at least you think they have.
But a lot of times they're just kind of dopey.
Like that guy's just kind of, you know, kind of pathetic.
At the same time, he doesn't strike me as someone who's going to just, you know, confess on his deathbed.
But I think they're, you know, like when you look at FBI professionals and their interrogation tactics are much smarter than I am.
And I think in that case yeah, i think it could happen.
Yeah, i'm amazed that you got into this.
It sounds like you just got into this on your own and i mean, when you started, you started making this your beat as a crime reporter.
Well no,
I kind of fell into it because, like I said, I moved here.
I was taken here when I was seven months pregnant.
And there's nowhere to work around here.
You said, I was taken here.
Were you abducted?
No, I didn't want to say it.
Yeah, I'm going to say.
You were like, I was taken here when I was seven months pregnant against my will to the prairie.
Oh, no.
Now I feel like we have to go rescue you.
Is your husband in the crime business?
No, no.
He's a physician.
Working that angle, eh?
Those are the best murderers.
Best murderers in California.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The physicians.
They know where to hit.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Okay.
Jesus.
She's right there with us.
Yeah.
She gets it.
No, so I got into it because yeah, I had three kids right in a row and it was.
You know, I never intended on being a stay-at-home mom.
God bless them.
It's the hardest thing in the world.
But when I was pregnant with my third, I was like, okay, I need to go back to work.
And at that point, it was after COVID.
So there were more remote opportunities.
So I was like, okay, let's look for a job for me.
And then I found that one, and it was with a company I used to work for, so...
It just kind of happened that way.
We completely support your decision because Sona had twins and offered to go back to work from the hospital.
Yeah.
You wanted to get away.
I was ready to go back.
During labor.
And she hasn't seen them since.
I don't know where they are.
Yeah.
No, I don't know where they are.
I understand.
I don't know what they're doing.
Yeah.
You said you're willing to meet them when they graduate college.
I came here and I haven't left.
I've just been in the studio.
Sona, how old are your twins?
You have twins, right?
They're three and a half.
Okay, I have a three and a half year old, so yeah.
Oh, yeah.
I can't imagine two.
Yeah.
You said you had three in a row.
How quickly?
19 months apart.
Fuck.
Oh, my God.
Yeah.
Okay, Jesus.
Sona?
It's like to move on to crime and murder.
My parents, that's how, in my family, there was a child born every four months for 35 years.
Yeah, we were high fiving each other in the womb.
Well, I got to go.
I'm shipping out, but I'll see you in a couple of months.
They said it was a medical miracle.
And your mom went back to work, too.
She went back to work as soon as she could.
Yeah, I don't blame her.
Yeah, she was a prizefighter.
75 knockouts.
Never lost a fight.
Well, this is fascinating.
I'm I'm really interested.
I'm very interested in what you do.
And I think it's incredibly cool that you're that you're doing this.
And I wish you the best of luck.
It's it is.
I also find the 70s to be such an eerie time.
You're familiar with the list case, right?
The what's that?
The List case.
It's a pretty famous case.
It's a guy who, the movie The Stepfather was based on The List case.
But it was John List.
He lost his job, didn't want to tell his family.
They were living in kind of a fancy house.
He was trying to keep up appearances.
And then he just decided to kill everybody and then disappear.
And he went, he disappeared successfully for like 25 years.
And they only found him because of America's Most Wanted.
And they made a recreation of what he would look like today.
And someone said I know that guy.
And it turned out it was him and I was a writer at Saturday Night Live at the time and I went to the trial.
The trial was in New Jersey and I would drive in my 1973 Plymouth Valiant over to New Jersey when I wasn't working on sketches and just sit there and look at this guy.
He had a big family and he just waited for the kids to come home one by one and killed them.
And then went and started a whole new life.
And when they caught him, he was having financial trouble again.
And they were theorizing he might have, if they hadn't caught him, done the same thing again.
Oh, my God.
And his rationale was they're starting to it's the 70s.
They're starting to wear.
My daughter's starting to wear a short skirt.
The kids are I I'm going to kill them so that they don't go to hell.
I'll kill them now and they'll go to heaven.
That was his rationale.
OK, probably a good time for murdering because there's no DNA stuff, right?
No, exactly.
I think it's.
Yeah.
And I agree with you.
Golden age of murder.
I agree with you.
You'll never see it again.
Yeah.
Isn't that a shame?
It's like the studio system.
Oh, they made good movies then.
Can't go home.
I think you're right.
I think you made a really good point, which is people think that if you get away with murder, you're a genius.
But no, it's...
It's a busy, crazy world out there.
And as we saw with the Long Island killings, those were all sex workers.
And sadly, they would go missing and the police would go like, eh, it's a sex worker.
God knows where she is.
And they were treated as second-class citizens.
And then later on, it turned out that this serial killer was extremely prolific, sadly.
And so you're right.
There is...
It's not that this person's a genius.
They were just preying on a section of society that was not, you know, held in the same regard, which is too bad.
Yeah, exactly.
And I mean it's kind of weird obviously to think about, just because most of us would get so much anxiety after killing someone and it would show, you know, but they're able to just go about their day.
Yeah, I think that my coworkers are pointing at me.
They've seen me do terrible bits, and then they see that I have no remorse.
None at all.
Just none.
And bits are worse than murder in many cases.
In a way, my bits are I'm murdering people's peace of mind around me.
Right.
I'm killing people's sense of a good world that they live in with my bits.
So in my own way, I've left a long trail behind me.
I don't know.
We dipped in and out of.
This is a fascinating conversation because we've dipped in and out of laughter and then incredibly dark moments and then back to laughter again, which shows that both
Well, the three of us need to be jailed.
Yeah, we do.
We need to be in some facility.
I mean.
No.
Not convincing.
You said that in such a Minnesota way.
No.
No.
You've been on the prairie too long, Tricia.
We've got to get you out of there.
I know.
I have.
It's a great place.
Is your physician husband out delivering a calf right now?
What is he doing?
A human baby.
Oh, OK.
Yeah.
OK.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, our best to him.
And you seem like a very cool person and very just really fascinating to talk to you.
And thanks for listening to our nonsense.
Did you have a question for me before we go?
Oh, well, my question, you kind of already answered, which would be, you know.
Well, actually, no, let me start over.
What advice would you give me?
Because you've obviously been known as one of the great interviewers of our country.
What advice would you give me the next time I go in and interview a serial killer?
I thought you were going to say what advice would you give to any killers out there on how to kill and kill again.
You know, it's the same thing.
I mean, I think we talked about it, but I do think it's all about getting rapport.
And one way I try.
I always try to find common ground with people, which is strange because if you're talking to a prolific serial killer, it would be weird.
But I think I would try and go into it, trying to liken what I do to what they do so that we could have a feeling of rapport.
Like I've killed in front of an audience.
Oh, boy.
That's what I would do.
I would try and find common ground.
Or talk about the time I've murdered.
But you're trying to get them to admit they murdered.
Yeah.
So you can't talk about, hey, we both kill, but in different ways.
Yes, that's what you do.
Most jailhouse confessions are one criminal talking to another.
Yeah.
That's what I think it is.
I think it's a good strategy.
Yeah.
Thank you very much.
And you lose, Sona.
I want you to go undercover in prison and, like, befriend these people.
Undercover in prison.
Oh, that's going to go well.
That's going to go really well.
Hiya, fellas.
I'm not Conan O'Brien.
My name's Conrad O'Ryan.
Well, off to the showers.
Trisha, have a wonderful day and really good luck to you.
And I hope that you're successful and that you get some closure for these people.
I really do.
Thank you so much.
And I do want to say that I listen to you guys all the time and laugh so hard.
Oh, good.
I appreciate it.
Yeah, it helps when I'm doing the murder stuff.
I like to laugh along with you and then go murder.
So the same way.
All right.
You take care, Tricia.
Thanks, guys.
Bye.
See ya.
Conan O'Brien needs a fan.
With Conan O'Brien, Sona Movsesian, and Matt Gourley.
Produced by me, Matt Gourley.
Executive produced by Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross, and Nick Liao.
Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino.
Take it away, Jimmy.
Supervising Producer, Aaron Blair.
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