You're tuned in to Roundtable.
I'm Steve.
Today with Feifei and Yushan.
Coming up, so you think you've got personal style?
Try moving to Beijing in winter.
No matter how bold your wardrobe, there's only one style fate you can't escape.
The great, all-consuming, universally worn black down jacket.
The great black down wall, if you will.
It's less a garment and more a cultural phenomenon.
The city's great style equalizer, if you want.
But is this really a fashion fail?
Or is it the capital's smartest style secret?
We'll chat about it.
After that, you get a wedding e-vite.
You click.
They know.
In China, e-invitations are turning curiosity into politeness.
Not so much, but more into pressure.
It's creating a whole new type of social weirdness.
Is this the end of the casual RSVP?
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It's time for the Soapbox.
It is time for the Soapbox, where we find a story from the news as of late that makes us feel a special kind of way.
We tell you what that story is about and then deliver a little mini rant on what's really going on in our heads.
And Fei-Fei, you have the floor this week.
Yes, it's my turn this week.
And over the past week I actually come across a number of articles actually online, especially on, for example, on WeChat.
I saw this article accumulating people's posts and comments on social media about why black down jackets are are basically the favorite of people in Beijing in winter time and they joke about how black down jackets have effectively become the city's city uniform.
And the local radio here in Beijing also did a survey last month with the hashtag why do people in Beijing love black down jackets?
And they interviewed people on the streets and most people citing reasons like being practical, less demanding in maintenance, matching everything, making everybody look the same, regardless of social status and your body weight.
And also on Douyin and Red Note, Xiao Hongshu.
There are also countless videos basically showing the same pattern like, no matter how fashion forward you are, once you move to Beijing, especially in the western part of the city, you somehow ending up buying that black down jacket and blending into that black colored current of commuters.
I was in Wangfuji recently and i knew you were going to be talking about this black down thing today, so i kind of paid attention.
I was indoors and i was about four stories up near a window and i was just.
Wang fujing has a lot of.
It's a popular tourist area here in the city and i was paying attention to exactly that.
Is feifei right?
Are there a lot of black down jackets around, or is this just you know In everyone's mind?
And I noticed it's a black wall.
I'm so curious to know what you saw in Wangfuzhen.
But the best place or spot that you can see the sea of black, the black sea of black down jackets, is actually underground in the subway stations, where the blackness is most dense, like all together squeezed up in the cars in the subway cars yeah, and also when it comes to if we are talking about other choices, color choices is either black or navy blue, but basically very dark colored.
Oh, i have a black one, and before my current one is also a black one, and steve has a navy blue one, as i remember.
Well, mine's not full length, though
Does it matter?
It doesn't matter about the length.
According to that video that the Beijing local radio did on the street, some people said they have like four to five different lengths of jackets, all in the color of black.
Because it's just so convenient and easy to maintain.
But it's not the first time actually for Beijing to be joked about not having a sense of fashion.
For example, in some other versions of the joke, Beijing's city uniform was the windbreakers.
And actually, there are reports about the sale of windbreakers.
The thinner jackets, you mean?
The thinner with the waterproof features on the coat.
And they have two layers.
One is probably a puffer jacket.
The other is more wind and waterproof.
And the sales of this windbreaker brands have been soaring in online.
For example, in Beijing alone for one brand, more than 300 people bought that particular windbreaker within a single week.
And they are also.
If you go to a mall in Beijing, you will see on the ground floor most of the brands.
Opening is basically selling some sort of windbreakers.
And even for those not traditionally producing outdoor apparel brands, they're also launching their own version of windbreakers.
So there are also people joking about Beijing City Uniform is that.
So joking about it online...
Kind of insulting, if you want to take it that way, right?
Depending on how you receive that joke, you could say, ha ha, yeah, I suppose.
But you could also say wait a minute.
You're just saying Beijingers aren't fashionable and this is not a fashionable city.
As a Beijing-er, I actually don't feel offended at all.
I just feel like, oops, you discovered our secret.
Because it's not only just the winter jackets were windbreakers.
Even in summertime...
I remember my grandpa telling me because he spent the majority of his life in Western China's Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region, where there are so many ethnic groups and people wearing all kinds of colorful dresses out on the street.
And once he moved to Beijing so that he can stay with me and my dad's family, his one and only biggest always-here kind of comment was out on the street is why is everybody wearing similar colors?
And it's usually just a modest kind of color.
That kind of doesn't make you stand out for whatever season.
Exactly.
And especially when you're comparing big cities here in China like Shanghai, Beijing is definitely not the fashion capital.
And Beijing basically a lot of people joke about Beijing basically can't tolerate everything except fashion.
And yeah, that's exactly what people are trying to label Beijing is.
And this has got you upset.
And that's what your soapbox is about today.
And here is where my soapbox begins.
First of all, I like my black puffy down jacket.
It is practical, it's effortless, it's comfortable, and there is nothing wrong with this really being down to earth attitude.
And in fact, in many cases is the most rational, honest and self-aware position to take.
People like to joke about it, about these black down jackets or other practical choices and also everyone looking the same.
But those jokes miss one point.
Being down to earth is not about lacking taste or imagination.
It's about understanding your environment, responding to it intelligently.
When it is minus 10 degrees outside, the wind sharp enough to hurt your face, and you still have a full workday and a one-hour commute ahead of you.
Choosing warmth over aesthetics is not giving up.
It's competence.
It's knowing your priorities.
In this case, fashion is optional and staying functional is not.
The down-to-earth attitude is also deeply democratic.
And this is not just about Beijing's so-called city uniform.
It also shows up in other choices too, like in most public schools here in China, the school uniforms.
They are often sportswear, loose and baggy, and people joke about how unattractive they are, especially when compared with skirts and blazers or private school uniforms seen elsewhere.
But that's the point.
This is about inclusivity.
It does not ask you to perform, does not demand disposable income, constant consumption or emotional energy to maintain appearances.
These clothes work for everyone everywhere, every day, and they soften sharp differences and lower social pressure.
And also let's talk about the joke itself.
People joke about being down to earth choices because they are common.
They're common because they work.
When millions of people here in Beijing independently arrive at the same solution, That is not a lack of creativity.
It's collective wisdom.
There is also a quiet dignity in practicality.
Down-to-earth people are not trying to impress strangers on the streets.
They're not dressing for algorithm or validation.
They're dressing for life as it actually is.
Crowded, cold, unpredictable, and busy.
Mocking.
That attitude often comes from a place of distance distance from daily commuting, from budgeting, from physical discomfort.
And it's easy to romanticize style when you are not the one standing on a freezing platform waiting for the last train home.
Hear, hear.
So yes, people can joke and it's fun to share online and we can laugh along, but let's not confuse practicality with recognition or simplicity with a lack of ambition.
Being down to earth is not the absence of aspiration.
It is the refusal to waste energy on things that don't matter.
And in a world that constantly asks people to perform, being down to earth is not a compromise.
It is a choice.
And beneath that puffer black jacket, fashion can still live on.
Sounds like it was a crowd of Beijingers.
Yeah, cheering for you there.
I recorded that.
No, I didn't.
What do you think about this, Yushan?
I mean, you know.
So let me ask this question.
So in other parts of China It's kind of commonly known that this city Beijing, is not known for its fashionistas.
Is that fair to say?
It's commonly seen online, yes.
Okay.
And Beijingers kind of know that other parts of China look at Beijing as not the fashion capital of the country.
I wouldn't vouch for every Beijinger, but personally, yes.
Okay.
I am aware.
Okay.
And this does not, you have no issue with this whatsoever.
You have kind of an issue with this.
You're not insulted, I think you said before.
Yeah, I feel it's a very and thank you Feifei, for the announcement of how we have an idea of fashion beneath the winter jacket.
I kind of said earlier that we wear modest colors, but that doesn't mean that we don't design how we look.
It's just sometimes, when thinking about our coordination for a day, we prioritize practicality over the variety of color that we're putting on ourselves.
And even for a down jacket.
This just came to my mind that for down jackets, almost every model type has a design for the color black because of its practicality.
Because for other colors, it's very visibly seen dirty around your sleeves and around your collar.
But for black color.
It seems like it's a better choice for a longer period without washing it constantly.
That's the wisdom of Beijing people, especially in weathers where there's a lot of wind and dryness in the air.
So I would see that as a healthy and helpful habit, instead of something that we should feel offended with.
And each place, as you mentioned earlier, Steve, have their own style for dressing themselves up.
So if we are the more modest and color-tolerating style, then I don't see that as a problem at all.
Well, I'll just say this.
There are four people in this room.
Two are wearing a puffy black vest.
If you're listening to Roundtable, I'm Steve with Yushan.
You just noticed, didn't you?
With Yushan and Feifei.
Coming up, your friend just sent you a wedding e-invitation.
Don't click that.
I'll tell you why in just a sec.
Looking for passion?
How about fiery debate?
Want to hear about current events in China from different perspectives?
Then tune in to Roundtable, where East meets West and understanding is the goal.
This is Roundtable Today with Fei-Fei and Yuxia.
My name is Steve and I don't know if you've received one before or not, but e-wedding invitations in China are meant to be fun and convenient, but its visitor tracking feature has turned casual clicks into social pressure.
Platforms can log who viewed an invite and even sell that information as a paid service.
This is leaving guests feeling awkward and couples feeling curious.
Is it time to rethink this feature before it starts ruining relationships, I wonder?
So what is this all about?
So first of all, for a lot of our listeners not in China these days that wedding invitations often happen online.
Most of the case they are through a link on the platform, on the app of WeChat, where you can click in and they can show that photos and videos of the newlyweds.
And they also have background music and maps online. of exactly where this wedding is taking place.
And they also have a button that you can press on if you decide to go with the wedding.
Is this a message sent directly to me or this is in WeChat Moments, for example?
It can be both.
Yes, exactly.
The coolest part is, If I want to send this invitation to someone, I can.
But if I don't know who else is interested, I can also just post it on the moment as a post.
And anyone in your friends list can feel free to click on that.
Yeah, and register if they want to.
And also it's sort of as an announcement telling your friends no matter you come or not, I'm getting married.
This is happening.
Yes.
And it's sort of an announcement.
So that's why this e-invitation feels very casual for many people.
Yeah, and so far it sounds okay.
So what's the problem?
And the problem is that recently, some of these e-invitation platforms allow invitation creators to see detailed visitor records, including who viewed this invitation and how many times they viewed it and when, and even who forwarded this invitation to a third party.
For example, if I saw an e-invitation on my moments and I decided to send to our mutual friend basically a little gossiping about oh, she or he is getting married.
I may not RSVP to that party, but it's just a nasty conversation to have.
Okay, but here's the problem, right?
So, for example, Fei Fei's getting married.
She puts out the thing, the wedding invitation on WeChat Moments, for example.
I don't think WeChat Moments is the only uh place people can do this.
No, but it's the, the primal yeah, the primary primary, primary.
Okay, so feifei puts it out on wechat moments yushan and i, we see it, yushan and i, we click, click.
Oh look, feifei's getting married.
Look at that beautiful wedding picture.
Yeah now, fast forward, fast forward.
Yushan and i don't go to the wedding.
Feifei can.
And here's the problem.
Feifei can see through a paid service that Yushan and I have both viewed the invitation and But didn't show up to the wedding.
Yes.
And also, according to some cases, shared online, some of the dashboards and background of the invitation platform showing 129 total visitors, with one single person opening that invitation 28 times.
That is feeling...
The social anxiety problem that we have, I think.
That's more than social anxiety.
That's social death if you're spotted doing that.
And so that's why a lot of especially for viewers they're feeling that this is on the boundary of privacy and feeling awkward, especially when you're not deciding not to go to that wedding.
I'm curious just how many newlywed couples or to-be-wed couples really focus on those details, because you mentioned earlier that it's a paid service and the higher membership you pay for, the more details you kind of can unlock from that platform.
But from many couples' perspective it doesn't necessarily feel that kind of malicious.
So many couples they see visitor records as a way to reduce uncertainty and we mentioned already that it's just convenient for people to um, keep a track of registering who is coming and who's not.
Yeah, i mean, i mean in in the past.
Now it's just like a digital registry.
Yeah, kind of, Kind of.
I don't know if it's exactly the same.
What it used to be like.
Well, you show up to the wedding and then you sign the guest book.
Maybe that's one of the problems these weddings have is that you don't have a clear picture of how many people are coming.
Yeah, the estimation of overall food you need to prepare.
Yeah, so when it comes to planning, it matters a lot to have a clear picture of how many people exactly are coming.
Do you think that's the main issue here about planning?
I feel like, I mean, maybe you're right, but I feel like that's not the problem.
I feel like the problem is the definition of friendship in that in that particular relationship.
Hey, bro, I know you I know you saw my invitation.
I know because I paid a service and I saw your name.
You clicked it but you didn't come.
Yes, and also when it comes to how many views like that.
One person opened that invitation for 28 times.
Yeah, you sort of it's a bit weird, isn't it?
Yeah, what are you doing?
Stay on top of that list.
It's very hard to to not seeing that you've opened the invitation for 28 times.
Did you forget 27 times?
Or you just want to see the pictures?
Yeah people, people will know.
You've been gossiping about what's happening with this wedding, about the couple.
And I think another issue is why Do platforms decide to launch such services?
And also, it's a paid service.
Make money, I would guess.
It's a good business.
It's a good business that they can earn from those couples.
And in the meantime, previously, this has been hidden from the general public, right?
So people don't know that they've been recorded, even though they just want to wander in and see what's going on.
You think your clicking is safe, right?
But your clicking has been recorded as a way to be marketized to customers, people.
Who wants to know if you're clicking or not?
Yeah, that's the consent thing.
I guess that it's part of it.
That is kind of like the, the gray area that the businesses are utilizing and also for a lot of viewers out there, i'm not really sure the level of consent they are giving out to these platforms, because you know, we've all been there the consent form is like seven eight, ten pages long.
Yeah, but you can't blame, you can't blame the company for that.
That's your responsibility to, and mine and you and everyone's right to read those fine details.
But there is also another issue.
Is that um, some people think that um you you, for example, you check that invitation more than once And sometimes they only show that consent form one time.
And sort of by clicking, I agree, you are sort of giving consent for life.
But some lawyers are saying that the consent isn't supposed to work like a lifetime pass.
But you should be given that sort of a notice every time you open that link.
Next time your friends send you an e-invite to their wedding, don't click it.
Or just be honest.
Oh, no, don't do that.
No, that's the worst.
Be honest about what?
Oh, sorry.
I like you, but not that much.
So I'll buy you a vacuum cleaner.
That'll do it for Roundtable 4 this afternoon.
Thanks very much for being with us today.
Thanks to Yushan and Fei-Fei.
We had fun today.
We hope you did as well.
Please do join us again next time.
