You're listening to Business English Pod, the Business English podcast for professionals on the move.
Hello, and welcome back to Business English Pod.
My name's Edwin, and I'll be your host for today's lesson on arguing in meetings.
Does everyone in your office always agree all the time?
When someone makes a suggestion, does everyone just smile and nod in agreement?
When you bring forward an idea, do people just accept it?
Well, if you answered yes to any of those questions, you are in an extremely unusual workplace.
People are people, and people butt heads.
They disagree, they argue, and they fight.
You can't get around it, but you can learn to deal with it.
To hold your own, you need to learn how to argue effectively.
If you've got an opinion, you need to defend it.
And if you have a problem with something a colleague has done, you need to let them know.
This can make for some difficult discussions and meetings, but this is just part of life and business.
So how can you argue effectively?
Well, you need several skills, which we'll look at today.
We'll learn how to interrupt someone, finish something we're saying after someone else has interrupted us and cast doubt on something someone has said.
We'll also learn some useful expressions for backing up an accusation and trying to keep the discussion focused.
When an argument breaks out, these are the kinds of skills you need.
In this lesson we'll hear a meeting between three people in the retail business talking about a recent promotional event.
Apparently, the event wasn't a great success.
Paula and Gavin disagree about why things didn't work out, while their boss Matt, tries to work out the truth and keep the discussion focused.
As you listen, try to answer the following questions.
1.
What does Gavin think was the general reason for the event's failure?
2.
Why does Gavin mention the papers and the radio spots?
3.
At the end of the dialogue what does Matt want to do?
OK, so let's talk a bit about attendance.
I mean, we had anticipated a lot more people at the event, hadn't we?
Yes, we had, and I think there were a few things at play.
First off, the weather was terrible.
That definitely had an impact.
Also, the public employees' strike kept a lot of people away from the downtown core.
Sorry, Paula, but you seem to be focusing on factors that are beyond our control.
And it's really not that simple, is it?
I know what you're getting at, Gavin.
But we scheduled this event a long way out and pumped a lot of time and money into planning.
And we had a committee that oversaw the entire thing.
Now I realize that there were some things... Whoa.
Sorry, but I have to jump in here.
I've got to point out that publicity on this thing was a complete and utter failure.
A failure?
Yes.
We waited and waited and then, when we finally started getting the word out, it was too little, too late.
Well, if I could just finish what I was saying.
We did a lot of planning.
But yes, in retrospect, we could have done some things differently.
Okay then, let's get into specifics.
Now, there was absolutely nothing in the papers, and the radio spots sounded truly awful.
Come on now, Gavin.
They weren't that bad.
No, seriously, Paula.
I'm here busting my butt to make sure that our customer service is spot on and the store looks absolutely amazing.
But every time we do an event, something gets screwed up.
OK, OK, let's calm down.
We're just butting heads here.
What we really need to do is focus on this event and try to break down all the reasons, external and internal, why it didn't happen the way we wanted.
Now let's go through the dialogue again and look at the language that Matt, Paula and Gavin use in their discussion.
Okay, so let's talk a bit about attendance.
I mean, we had anticipated a lot more people at the event, hadn't we?
Yes, we had, and I think there were a few things at play.
First off, the weather was terrible.
That definitely had an impact.
Also, the public employee strike kept a lot of people away from the downtown core.
The speakers are discussing a promotional event held by their department store.
Matt begins by bringing up the topic of attendance.
He mentions that they had anticipated or expected more people.
He then uses the tag question, hadn't we, as a way of inviting input.
Paula agrees that they had hoped for more people.
Then, to begin her explanation, she says there were a few things at play.
If there are factors, reasons or things at play, it means that they are all affecting the outcome or how things go.
Paula continues by discussing the bad weather and a strike in the downtown core, which means the city center.
To Paula, these are the reasons for poor attendance.
So, what does Gavin think of Paula's assessment?
Sorry, Paula, but you seem to be focusing on factors that are beyond our control.
And it's really not that simple, is it?
Gavin does not agree, but he doesn't come out and say so directly.
He begins by saying sorry Paula, then goes on to say that she's focusing on factors beyond our control.
Remember, she mentioned the weather and a strike.
Those things cannot be controlled in the planning of the event.
Gavin is suggesting here that those are not the only reasons for the poor attendance.
He continues with a question, and it's really not that simple, is it?
Gavin is casting doubt on what Paula has said and he uses the question.
Is it to suggest that she knows that there are other important factors?
In a business meeting, you can't always attack people's ideas directly.
Instead, you can use the technique of casting doubt on an idea which may be more effective and more acceptable.
So let's practice some more examples of how we can do this.
Notice how the examples are all phrased as questions, rather than direct disagreement.
Do you really think we couldn't have prevented the accident?
So, if everything is going so well, then why is our stock price plummeting?
Have you even bothered to check with finance whether that's true?
We only need five new staff?
Is that really going to meet our needs?
So, how does Paula react to Gavin's doubts?
I know what you're getting at Gavin, but we scheduled this event a long way out and pumped a lot of time and money into planning.
And we had a committee that oversaw the entire thing.
Now I realize that there were some things... Whoa.
Sorry, but I have to jump in here.
I've got to point out that publicity on this thing was a complete and utter failure.
Paula begins by telling Gavin that she knows what he is getting at, or really trying to say.
She wants to defend herself against his suggestion, but she still has to accept some responsibility.
Paula explains that the event was scheduled a long way out or far ahead of time, and she emphasizes the time and money put into planning.
And it wasn't just her job, but the work of an entire committee.
After this defense, Paula begins to admit that there were some things that could have been different.
But she can't finish, because Gavin interrupts her.
Gavin signals his interruption with the word, whoa, which stops Paula from speaking.
Then he apologizes with, sorry, but I have to jump in here.
And finally, he continues with his idea, which is that publicity for the event was a complete and utter failure.
In other words, it was absolutely terrible.
Interrupting is an important skill in an argument, and you can see the pattern that Gavin uses in the following examples.
If I can just interrupt for a sec, there's something I'd like to say.
Sorry to butt in here, but I think we need to go back to the issue of cost.
Could I just come in here?
Hang on for a moment.
That point needs clarifying before we go on.
Gavin said that the publicity was a failure.
Matt wants to hear more about this, which he indicates by simply restating the key word failure, as a question.
A failure?
Yes.
We waited and waited and then, when we finally started getting the word out, it was too little, too late.
Well, if I could just finish what I was saying.
We did a lot of planning.
But yes, in retrospect, we could have done some things differently.
This is Gavin's chance to explain his opinion, and he seizes the opportunity.
He talks about getting the word out, which means publicizing something or letting people know about it.
In this case, Gavin says it was too little too late.
In other words, they didn't publicize it enough, and not soon enough.
Now, remember that Gavin interrupted Paula because he had something to say.
But Paula hasn't given up.
She still wants to make her point.
So she says, well, if I could just finish what I was saying.
And the idea that Paula wanted to finish was that there was a lot of planning but it wasn't perfect.
Interrupting is part of arguing, but so is finishing what you were saying.
What are some other ways we can do this?
Let's run through a few examples.
As I was trying to say, we need a really strong fourth quarter this year.
If I can continue, this product is nowhere near being ready to launch.
Could I just finish here?
Now, I'd just like to complete that thought first.
So, is Gavin finished with his criticism?
Let's have a listen.
Earlier, we heard Gavin say that the publicity was terrible.
Now he wants to back up that accusation.
In other words, he wants to explain why he criticized the publicity.
And he does this by saying, let's get into specifics.
Gavin then points out exactly what he thought was terrible.
If you're going to criticize or accuse, you need to learn to back it up.
Listen to how the following examples provide evidence or support for a criticism.
It's true, and I can show you why with a couple of examples.
Well, I know it's Tony's misunderstanding because I've got the emails to prove it.
The accountant called to complain about the books.
That's how I know there's a problem.
Yes, you have problems with timelines.
In fact, you finished three projects late this month.
It's clear that Paula and Gavin disagree.
But they're not done yet.
Come on now, Gavin.
They weren't that bad.
No.
Seriously, Paula.
I'm here busting my butt to make sure that our customer service is spot on and the store looks absolutely amazing.
But every time we do an event, something gets screwed up.
OK, OK, let's calm down.
We're just butting heads here.
What we really need to do is focus on this event and try to break down all the reasons, external and internal, why it didn't happen the way we wanted.
Paula doesn't think the ads were so bad, but Gavin won't give up.
He uses the expression no seriously Paula, to make sure she understands that it's important to him.
Gavin then talks about busting his butt, which means working very hard to make sure that the customer service is perfect or, as he says, spot on.
But he thinks that every event gets screwed up.
If something is screwed up, it means mistakes were made, and the result was terrible.
It's pretty clear that Gavin is upset.
At this point, Matt steps in.
He sees that they are just butting heads or arguing, and he wants everyone to calm down.
Matt doesn't want to lose focus on this particular event, which he believes is what we really need to do.
Matt wants to break down or analyze the reasons why this event didn't happen perfectly.
When we argue, it's easy to lose our focus, as Gavin has done, and it's important that someone tries to bring back that focus, as Matt does.
What are some other ways we can encourage people to do this?
I'd like to bring this back to the issue of the hiring process itself.
We're getting off track here, so let's narrow the discussion down a bit.
Okay, people.
The time and scope have been decided.
We just need to talk cost.
It's not the design that we need to talk about.
Let's focus on the functionality.
As you have heard, Paula and Gavin are using a variety of techniques to argue about the events that their company held.
And Matt has tried to make sure they focus on the issue at hand.
Now, let's practice some of the language we learned in today's lesson.
We're going to start with a role play practice.
You'll play the part of a salesperson in a meeting about a report that needs to be finished.
You and a colleague disagree about the report.
You'll start by casting doubt on your colleague's idea.
Then you'll interrupt, back up your accusation, and try to keep the discussion focused.
At each step, you'll hear a cue given by your colleague.
Then, I'll give you some suggestions for the language you can use to respond.
We'll guide you through each step in the practice and play an example answer for each response.
Ready?
Let's give it a go.
I don't think it will be a problem getting the report done by Friday.
Start off by casting doubt on the idea that the report can be finished by Friday.
Example answer.
Are you really sure it can be finished by Friday?
Well, I think all it really needs is for a couple of people to review it quickly and Now interrupt the speaker and say that his reports usually need more work.
Example Answer If I can just jump in here, I think your reports usually need more work.
I don't think that's very fair.
I spend a lot of time on them.
Now, back up your accusation by mentioning usual problems with charts and tables.
Example answer.
That might be true, but they usually have some problems with the charts and tables.
Well, I think these are issues that I see in your reports too, so it's not right to say it's just my problem.
Now, try to keep the discussion focused on how to get the report finished.
Example answer.
Okay, let's just keep our focus on how to get this report done.
Now let's practice useful vocabulary and idioms.
You'll hear a series of sentences with the word replaced with a beep.
Repeat the whole sentence, including the missing word.
For example, if you hear... Unfortunately, the economic crisis is completely beyond our...
You can say... After each response, we'll play the correct answer.
Let's begin.
When we have an event, we used Facebook and Twitter to get the... out.
Answer.
When we have an event, we use Facebook and Twitter to get the word out.
I've been busting my for the past three years without a raise.
Answer.
I've been busting my butt for the past three years without a raise.
Finance doesn't want to pump a lot of into new equipment right now.
Answer.
Finance doesn't want to pump a lot of money into new equipment right now.
Tom and Matt are always butting about how to run meetings.
Answer.
Tom and Matt are always butting heads about how to run meetings.
Interrupt someone and continue after being interrupted.
We've also covered how to back up an accusation and keep the discussion focused.
Be sure to tune in for the next episode, when we'll hear Paula and Gavin continue their heated debate.
We will learn some good ways of defending against accusations, correcting information and dismissing trivial points.
Thanks for listening, and see you again soon.
