Discussion keeps the world turning.
This is Roundtable.
Every city, town, or village around the world has its own unique character, and the buildings that lie within those communities tell a story about the history of that place.
Public buildings mean more to us than we may realize.
What should be done to maintain those prized architectural gems so that we, and the generations beyond ours, can continue to enjoy them.
This is Roundtable.
I'm Steve Hatherly, and I thank you for being with us.
Lai Ming and Hong Lin join me for today's show.
Up first. A humble suburban school in Australia has fended off competition from skyscrapers, museums, and airport terminals to be named World Building of the Year 2024.
The school beat more than 220 other shortlisted designs to win the coveted annual prize at the World Architectural Festival in Singapore.
From schools to iconic museums to cozy parks, our buildings are more than just brick and mortar.
They're the heart and soul of our cities, infusing life, culture, and spirit into what many times may be called a concrete jungle.
What are the secrets behind these architectural marvels, and how exactly do they shape the pulse of urban life?
So I guess if we're going to talk about buildings, we have to first define what kind of buildings exist within our cities.
Lai Ming, how do we define one?
Well, it really depends on where you live.
In the country, for instance, like the US, they have a rather strict definition of the term public buildings.
They would usually refer it to government or nonprofit buildings, meaning they are either owned or built and maintained with government or nonprofit funding.
Whereas here in China, we have a different definition.
According to the latest general code for civil business in China, there are only two types of buildings.
One is industrial buildings, meaning factories and production -related stuff and storeroom.
The other is civil building, which includes residential buildings and public buildings.
Essentially, as long as the building is constructed for public activity, it can be called as public buildings.
And according to such definitions, schools, office buildings, theaters, malls, hospitals, parks, stadiums, museums, and airports are all public buildings.
Oh, literally anything that's not done for production purposes is considered a public building.
Or anything that you don't own as a resident.
And of course, these are only large groups of definition.
Or let's say we're separating it into these two parts.
But actually, there are more.
For example, if a building is used for residential communities, then the electricity, the water system, sewage system, elevators, all these, they also have different standards.
But definitely when it comes to public buildings, we're talking about the ones that basically everyone might be able to use someday or would have access to.
Got it. So when we walk down the street, you know, looking at our smartphones these days, most of the times when we should be looking forward.
Why should we be paying attention to the buildings around us?
Why should buildings be important to us?
Well, in my opinion, buildings are like the brick and mortar muscles and bones of the city.
You live in a city like little parasites or better ways to address ourselves.
And you would go to certain places, enjoy the facilities.
Yes, the functions of these places, like, for example, even hospitals or public squares or libraries, the functions might be the same, but you would always have different experiences in different cities, in different libraries.
And that is a very important part of your everyday life.
Yeah, I'm guilty of this.
Maybe you are as well.
When I walk down the street, I can walk down the street that I've walked down a hundred times before and suddenly look up and see a building that I've never seen before.
Even though I probably have seen it 100 times, but it just didn't enter into my brain space.
Oh, definitely. Right?
It happens to you too, yeah?
Well, it happens especially if you are a resident of cities, if you live in big cities, because a lot of the buildings, you don't usually go in there.
You don't know what they're used for.
and you scarcely know anybody there.
So maybe buildings like that doesn't make any sense to you until finally you look up from your smartphone and see, oh, there's a building here.
But I would like to add something to what Niu Hon Lin mentioned earlier, and that is, in fact, public buildings exist in rural areas as well.
You don't just find public buildings in big cities, because I could think of, for instance, in Miao Villages, there's commonly a square where people were engaging in public festivities.
they will dance in circles and then celebrate stuff.
So public place is very important no matter where you live.
And it's the air we breathe, it's the space we go about our business, it's the space where we perhaps even make friends and meet our loved ones.
So it's very important as to what kind of ambience and what kind of environment that these buildings, public and private, come together to create.
Yeah, and you're speaking about it in more of a philosophical sense almost rather than a concrete mixed with water type of sense, which is interesting because Fina Bureles, who is a professor of philosophy at the University of Barcelona, said that public buildings can provide a visible space for human activities.
And here through language and then the people's behavior, people can be seen and heard and discovered for who they are.
And maybe it's not as part of our 2024 life, at least not as much as it used to be talking about.
Because you live in the cyberspace.
Well, we live in a cyberspace and we tend to exit our homes, our concrete homes, and then travel on, you know, a metal and concrete car or subway or sidewalk and then enter into our concrete buildings.
So I think it's easy to forget the philosophical side of buildings within a community.
But it's definitely important.
And if you think about any city, you would have this image in your head.
For example, when I think about Beijing, I would suddenly think about different hutongs.
I would think about people living there.
when I think about Shanghai, I mainly think about the skyscrapers, which are normally or mostly public buildings.
And when I think about, for example, Suzhou, I think about the kind of buildings that are surrounded by water areas.
That's the character of the city.
That's the quality of the city.
That's the cityality.
Yeah. And cities with buildings, smaller communities with buildings, these all have diverse, various backgrounds.
And the buildings within those communities represent somehow the history of that place, the culture of that place, and the people who live in that place as well.
I mentioned in the opening that school, isn't that a cool story, by the way?
That small Australian school just won the architectural award for 2024.
And a quote from the representative from the design firm that designed that school, They said that the real winners of the design are the children who get to go there and study every day.
Oh, yes. Actually, on Roundtable, we've talked about a story of a high school in the southern part of the country, I guess, having one of the best or at least awarded campus around the world.
It's also about the architecture, the fact that the school has emerged in green plants And its aesthetic was appreciated.
And people there, students there, are able to not only study, but socialize with each other and relax in a much greener and much natural environment.
So yeah, same example here in China as well.
Come to think of it, the public places in public buildings are really the kind of place where you generate a memory about the place you hang out with.
To think about the campus that I stayed in, I can only recall the public areas where there are different vegetations, and also maybe the library where people have to scramble for a seat, and otherwise they need to be there early, otherwise there wouldn't be a space left for them.
So it's usually a landmark building in a city Like New Hongling mentioned earlier And my memory would remind me of The Forbidden City Even though it was previously owned by the royal family Now the palace museum is open to any tourist Who's willing to pay for the ticket So the other point that I'd like
to mention Is that public and private Sometimes they are not industrial in the Chinese context They sometimes, they change They changed the rules.
The famous 978 factory area in Beijing, northeast Beijing, has now been turned into an art district where people hang out and post for pictures and pretend that they're pretty artsy and well -educated.
Previously, sorry to interrupt, previously that neighborhood was fully industrial.
Nobody would ever go there to hang out.
There would never be a reason.
People hang out. I'm sure the employees of the factories, they hang out, they date.
They go to restaurants and they enjoy the place, but it's now more public.
Same thing happened to the Capital Steel Factory Grounds in Western Beijing.
I'm sure you've been there.
It hosted the 2022 Winter Olympics in Beijing.
What's been done with the architecture itself, the infrastructure itself, in that previous industrial zone that has turned artsy?
Have they kept it as it was and just turned it into an artistic type of feel?
or did they kind of redesign the whole space?
The structure and the skeletons of the buildings were kept.
And if you had time to visit there, you notice the pipelines and the old factory floors and the buildings.
And it gives you a sense of nostalgia, even though you haven't been there, you haven't worked there personally.
But they remind you of a period of a bygone era.
You mentioned libraries.
Yes. When was the last time you were in a library?
Sometime this year, I was with my son at a local library.
It belonged to, in fact, the neighborhood committee.
It was strictly a public building and a public run, and public staff worked there.
They have very strict office hours.
If you go there late, they wouldn't wait for you.
But it's a very nice place.
You go there and you look around, you borrow books, and it's a nice place.
I often see parents bringing their kids and trying to read there for a while.
When was the last time you were in a library?
five years ago, which is what I expected both of you to say, actually, with my leading question.
But that's probably the common answer for people, right?
They don't go to libraries a lot anymore.
Do you think they're still as important to a community as maybe they were, let's say 25 -30 years ago?
I think it's actually quite important because, of course, you borrow books in libraries, you sit there and you read and as a student you can actually study there.
Actually one of the libraries in my hometown was the one that I visit quite a lot during one specific summer break that I need to study and I like that atmosphere and everything.
But come to think of it nowadays that particular library in Shanxi province, my hometown, started to host a lot of different activities, the kind of salon lectures.
And of course, they arrange activities for children in the community to join.
The only reason that my answer is five years ago, not recently, is because my kid is too young.
I'm pretty sure after one year.
Do they not allow babies in the library?
Well, babies cannot appreciate just yet.
But when he is able to appreciate the atmosphere, the socializing opportunity among kids in his own age, I'm pretty sure libraries would be a good choice.
When he understands the word shush.
Yeah, that's also very important.
Touché, my friend, touché.
Yeah, I was looking it up because I was curious to know, and that's the question that I put into the Internet is, are libraries still important to our communities?
And the overwhelming answer from the multitude of articles that exist on the topic, says exactly that.
Yes, they are still absolutely important to our neighborhoods.
For the reasons that you just mentioned, it's a community space.
People can gather there.
There's classes that can be taught there.
In the United States where my parents live, I know that the local library offers classes on iPads and computers, so it helps them to stay connected to the digital world.
But also, they can be a space where when the unexpected happens, they can provide a safe spot.
Back in 2012 was when Hurricane Sandy hit the United States, and it left a lot of people homeless at the time.
And the library is where people gathered.
And it not only gave them shelter, but it allowed them access to the internet so that they could fill out the necessary government forms at the time.
But more importantly, it allowed them to keep in touch with their family members who, of course, will be wondering about their safety as well.
No question that libraries still are very important to us in our modern day.
When you think about your hometown, though, what stands out as maybe the public building in your memory where you think, oh, yeah, right, that space where I'm from was a really important place?
I would say it's a plaza that no longer exists or has been improved.
There was once this large open space with grass and we used to host our sports meeting from our school there.
And every now and then there's a lottery event and everybody from the towns and rural areas, they were coming and tried their luck and buying a lottery.
And sometimes back in the days, there will be a public hearing of certain very important crucial cases, criminal cases.
It's been heard. Oh, really?
People who are sentenced there were sentenced to prison or more severe penalties.
And they would do that at that town center.
It was more like a plaza.
There was nothing there.
Just an auditorium, open area auditorium and a large swath of grassland.
People would gather there.
And the circuit would come in and it would smell like horse crap.
But it's the memory.
What's there now? Well, it was once built upon, and now it's being sort of restored.
It's an open space again.
It's a vast grassland, and then down there, there's parking space.
Things do evolve, right?
Things change. Inevitably.
Yeah, and it's the same for my case, except that, well, there are two places that come to my mind when you ask me that question.
One is one that I have already shared on Roundtable, That is a commercial area that I used to go hang out with my friends a lot in the provincial capital of Shanxi province, Taiyuan, the provincial capital.
And the place has definitely been improved from this just one pedestrian street to the whole area with a lot of better buildings, only just, you know, better decoration of those traditional buildings and a lot of new brands coming to the commercial area.
But another one is a bridge.
We call it Yingze Bridge.
is one of the most important bridges in Taiyuan.
Any bridge is important.
It brings people across the river.
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
But that one is relatively iconic.
But it's overshined by a lot of new bridges.
And definitely the new ones are prettier and they have lights on and whatever.
But this past National Day holiday, I went back home.
And two decoration, like huge little rooms or little architecture or 小头堡 Bridgehead Like bridgehead, were built to the bridge in my memory And that place suddenly started to be one that a lot of people would go take pictures of Make videos and send to the internet It's like seeing an old tree growing
New Sprout It was weird but nice Yeah, it's no longer a bridge that you owned It's owned by somebody else now.
Why is it important to keep these types of structures, if we can?
You know, where I'm from, Tadamagoshi, Nova Scotia, on the east coast of Canada, a very small village, maybe a population of 1 ,000.
Back in, goodness me, was it the 1890s, 1880s or 70s, a train station was operational there.
1890 is when it actually started.
that old train station is now a hotel and the train tracks are still there and the train is still there but they've converted the train into hotel rooms so it's not like it's a five star hotel or anything like that but they've kept that aesthetic in the village and they use it which is one of my answers
to this question they use it as a tourist attraction now and it's kind of a fun little cute thing you can look it up on the internet they advertise it and you know so what do you think is it important that we keep these old structures if we can within our communities you can always strike a balance I
mean personally I would wish that not all of the buildings in public places in my memory could be kept but most of them but again back to the first example I gave to your question that the commercial area I didn't anticipate the commercial area to be improved and decorate it to really a better version of itself.
So I guess if the local government is doing a good enough job, even though they're not keeping the old places exactly the way they are, most people could still appreciate them.
Well, my understanding is it really depends on the circumstances.
I mean, if, for instance, it's a small town like the one I grew up with, I would suddenly see more expansion of the place because given the state as it was 20 -30 years ago there is not nearly enough space to accommodate the amount of people that are coming in swarming into the township because we were the seat of a town
it was a small town but it was the seat of a county and people from rural areas they naturally look forward to an opportunity to receive better education and better healthcare in the capital in a more developed region so if they were all moving in and there weren't enough space to hold these people
and to provide the kind of services that they need then we have a problem so in that sense i think it's important but on the other hand i realized that we all need something to look back upon to if only to maintain our sanity or to know that where we come from take some pictures solve that problem No,
no, they're different.
I mean, looking back at the main water pipe that we used as a bridge to cross a tiny little river in the rural parts of my township, now it's completely gone now, and there's no way that I can go back to that time and space.
So that sense of nostalgia is unaddressed.
It's a fine line, isn't it?
My sister was just in Las Vegas on her way to South Africa.
Amazing trip for her, by the way.
And when she was in Las Vegas, they were demolishing, this happened really recently, the Tropicana Hotel.
The Tropicana Hotel had been there since 1957.
At the time, it was one of the luxurious places in the city.
The Grand Hotel Budapest.
But over time, it had turned into kind of a friendly, easy on the wallet kind of budget place to stay.
And they just demolished it.
Now, in true Las Vegas style, they made a party out of it.
They had drones flying and a fireworks show.
My sister was there not for the event.
It just happened to be happening while she was there.
But looking out her window, she saw it at the time.
They brought the building down.
And what they're doing is they're building a new baseball stadium there.
There's going to be a team, an MLB team moving there in the new decade, I think, or perhaps just before it.
But I guess we see that, don't we?
For a city to move along economically, that's why they're doing that in Las Vegas.
They want to get away from perhaps the pure gambling side of the city and make it more about a sports entertainment city.
In that sense, moving forward for economic reasons, I suppose, is another reason to update our public buildings.
I feel like governments in different places have different approach.
But in general, people see this problem and trying to address it and finding that perfect balance by addressing some of the buildings in some of the areas as landmark architecture so that they can be protected.
it. And if you're not qualified enough, I'm sorry for those who holds a dear memory to it, still, maybe at that exact moment, for example, being demolished is the better choice.
So what should governments do then in the future?
What types of buildings should we be designing?
What course should we be?
What path should we be going down?
Well, public buildings, they are often costly to build.
They're often quite big, and they're often and also quite costly to maintain.
As such, I think it's best that we think ahead and think long term.
They can be very good demonstration projects for sustainability.
So carbon neutrality in the process of operating and building them, and also the best way to reduce energy costs, and also how we could educate people and raise their awareness about sustainability.
that's one way to look at public building construction and maintenance well since I'm not going to do the planning myself let me make it even harder for the governments who are listening try to think about the public buildings with the whole picture in your heart what kind of city do you want your city
to be like not only the sustainability not only accessibility to all the different groups not only to vulnerable people who have special needs but also aesthetically what you want your city skyscrapers to have the city's skyline to look like while you are doing this are you hitting two birds with one
stone are you making the city not only a place that is easy to live but also a place that is even prettier that is going to be more attractive to tourists think about it before think about it twice and three times and four times before you actually do it that would be something I would ask for.
By nature public buildings should be open to the public I mean in some cases when people are designing a public buildings function as a museum they build a rather enclosed space in that case people don't necessarily have access so there's been some good examples of museum design or concert hall design
where they allow people to enter even though they may not have bought the ticket.
They have access to the venue, but not necessarily to the performance.
But that makes the space open to the public.
We need to remember that the buildings in our communities are not just buildings.
They provide so many benefits to our communities.
So the next time you walk by or perhaps walk into one of the buildings in your area where you live, you can do so with a certain amount of pride.
That much is for sure.
