This is the Business English Podcast, Episode 98, How to Find a Job When You Have a Job.
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Hey, Lindsay, how are you today? Awesome, Michelle.
How's everything going? Everything is good over here.
Today, I'm excited to get in to this topic.
Lindsay, have you ever looked for a job when you've had a job?
I actually don't think I, in my immediate past, definitely not.
Not really. I I have not this one don't worry I'm not looking for a job but in the past I have looked for a job and it's a it can be a funny feeling you know you don't know what to do and then if you get an interview how do you work that into your schedule so that it can be a funny feeling because on one hand you want you know to use your whole network but on the other hand you don't want to lose your current job but they always say that it's easier to get a job if you have a job right i wonder if that's because like you you're more attractive to an employer if you're employed like kind of the hard to get thing i wonder if there's a little bit of that involved there Probably.
And, you know, just showing, oh, that you have a job, that you can hold a job, that you have this current experience.
But, you know, this gets into lots of other topics.
Like, I mean, I'm thinking of like mothers who or any parent that stays.
I shouldn't say mothers, any parent that stays at home with their children.
And then wants to get back into the work industry.
And then, you know, you're looking without a job and it can be hard to break back in.
So that could be another topic for another day.
Well, I think there's a lot of research out there on that, Michelle, on like the income loss and the career setbacks that women do have, unfortunately.
Yeah, due to that. Exactly. There is a lot of research on how we can counteract that.
Before we move further in the episode, Michelle, I want to make sure...
To highlight one phrase you just said, we've talked about this phrase on All Ears English podcast, which our listeners should go find right now and hit follow.
It feels funny. So this is something I hear you say a lot.
And I want to make sure I know what you mean by that.
Yeah, I hear you say this a lot. And what does it mean when you say it feels funny to look for a job when you have a job?
I don't mean it feels like I'm going to laugh like well, like I'm watching a funny show.
Right. I mean, it feels strange. OK. Odd.
Yes. A strange feeling. You can say a funny feeling.
Yes. By context, you can know that you don't really say like, oh, I have a funny feeling when you're talking about something.
Ha ha. Funny. No, right. Exactly. So that's kind of one of your language quirks that I think is pretty unique to you, Michelle.
But I want to make sure our listeners know that because it does make sense.
It's native and natural, but it's not ha ha funny.
Yes. Well, it's it's funny you say that because I'm actually I currently just planned an all ears English podcast about another language quirk.
I won't give it away, but look out for that.
That'll be fun. OK, I love that. Yeah, go ahead.
So guys, episode 67 of the Business English podcast was between jobs, different ways to express your career status in English.
So we talked about that being between jobs, this idea on that episode.
But today we were saying on that episode that we want to do a follow up about looking for a job when you have a job.
And is that awkward? Do you think it's an awkward thing? yeah i agree with you i think it probably creates a funny feeling just to speak in michelle terms here i'm sure i i i haven't done it i don't have a ton of experience in this area but i've talked to people who have and absolutely it feel it might feel you might feel a little guilty right um especially if you're kind of potentially spending work hours which i don't necessarily recommend as an employer no no no no You know, but some people do if they're on salary.
I mean, we don't recommend it, but they might spend some time during the day looking around.
Don't do it on your work computer, right?
Because often work computers are monitored by your company.
Okay. Yes. So be careful. It can be tough because you're trying to keep things, I'm using this expression, hush-hush, right?
Like a secret. But at the same time, when you're searching for a job, like we mentioned, and you have a job, you are coming from more of a place of power, which is also good.
So the big question here is so we there's an article from the Wall Street Journal.
And this article is how to nab a new job without tipping off your current boss.
So this is from January 24th, 2023. I don't know why the author isn't in here.
I can get it in a second. But this is from WSJ.com.
Yeah. So we're going to be talking a little bit about this article and then giving our own tips as well.
Oh, I know why there's no author. It's actually it was actually a podcast episode.
But yeah, I think this might be from the new podcast.
It's OK. Here it is. I think this is from the new podcast from The Wall Street Journal called As We Work. and i think a lot of our listeners on business english are gonna love this podcast yeah um really interesting like today's episode confused about the job market join the club here's some help right these are cool modern episodes about our careers about our lives that would be a nice compliment to uh listening to business english here guys okay Yeah, yeah, for sure.
So, okay, well, the big question is, do you tell people you're looking for a job?
Do you tell clients? Who do you tell? And one of, you know, this woman, Kara Heilman, she's the president of the International Association of Association of Career Coaches.
And she says, I'm just kind of summarizing, you know, she says, it really depends, that's a quote, on how, like, your company will feel.
If, you know, if you think that, like, your workplace will be so angry that you will have a horrible time at work, you might lose your job, then obviously it's not a good thing to make it public.
Do you think there's ever a chance when a company wouldn't want to kind of like wouldn't be upset if you're looking for a new job?
Do you think companies can be truly happy or support the decision of someone to like openly leave or move on?
I don't know. I mean, unless if they're not happy with your performance, then that might be something that would be okay.
Right. If they kind of want you to move on, that would be one situation.
Or I don't know a ton about this, but I think I've heard that the big consulting firms have the up or out concept, right?
Like they want you to move up in the company.
Like they want oh i think some of the consulting firms have a program where they want you to go like work and like they give you some what is it they incentivize you to go see what else is out there and i think they incentivize you monetarily i think to go see what else is out there And then because they want to make sure that you are where you want to be, like they want you to check everything else out.
It's incredible. They have so much cash just to throw around.
Wow. They're going to be changing this if we go into a recession.
We'll see. But, you know, I that kind of super achievement oriented culture, I could see that.
Those kinds of things. But they can do that because they can do that.
I mean, they attract graduates from the Ivy Leagues.
Right. I mean, big business. They have a ton of money.
Right. But your average company is not going to appreciate it.
Yeah, I've never heard of anything like that.
That is very unique. But yeah, I mean, I I can't imagine a situation in which you'd be like, hey, I'm going to be leaving.
I'm going to be looking for jobs. You know, I just don't you know. um and you know how how can you know how your job will feel uh and this woman uh miss heilman says um that she actually had a president of um this company um ask if you can see on linkedin who's looking for a job and the thing is on linkedin apparently you can put it in a secret and he was asking can she actually go back and look on LinkedIn behind the scenes and see who's looking for a job, but it's a secret.
Oh, that's crazy. I mean, I think I would not appreciate... I think, like I said, when we were prepping this episode, Michelle, a company that spends the time to go and do that, to spy on you and see if you're looking, it's probably not a company you want to be working with anyways.
Yeah. They don't have the priorities straight, right?
Yes. And then she said that this guy would actually, if she found someone, he would talk to them.
And this is a quote she said. He said, are you staying?
Are you going? I want people who are going to give 10% to the job.
And if you don't want this and you can't give 110%, I'll go find someone else.
So that's what this guy would say. Wow, he sounds like a bully.
He sounds like a work bully. big time yes so she says tell only tell people you really trust you know make a make a list um who can you really trust um it could do you think you can tell a co-worker i would probably avoid it even if you feel like you can trust them they might not be like they, you know, they may have an interest in that and so it may affect their job in some way that they can't help but share something.
So I would keep it to like within your family and close friends.
I probably wouldn't, wouldn't tell even a coworker that I think is my friend.
Like I would just be really careful. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. I think so too. Yeah. Interesting.
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Exclusions apply. See details online. Okay, Michelle, do we have any additional tips here if our listeners want to find a job when they have a job?
Yes, Lindsay, what's the first one? Okay, so we talked to some of the people we know in the corporate world, we got a couple of tips.
One tip we got was to make a visual make a Venn diagram.
Look at in one one circle. What is a Venn diagram, Michelle, by the way?
What is a Venn diagram? Well, it's circles and you make lists.
And what like, if I say, like, okay, like fruit, like two fruits, I'm going to compare two fruits.
And it's apples and oranges. And I would have one circle that's apples, one circle that is oranges.
And then in the middle, it's things they share.
So like things they share, apples, you know, green, red, oranges, orange, things they share, fruit, delicious, things like that. yeah exactly so in this kind of venn diagram you're looking at your income goals because we have goals of what we want to make and just understanding the market how compounding interest works over time 401ks right certain income goals then we look at our career growth and then we look at company culture and write down everything you want in those circles under those categories and then see where they come together do they are does this perfect It's never going to be perfect, right?
You're going to have to give up something all the time.
But that convergence of the Venn diagram, does it already exist at your company?
Maybe it does. It's just you have to move positions or something, right?
That's true. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So maybe compare the job you want with the job you have.
What's different? What's the same? So how can you move forward?
Yeah. Yeah, sometimes it's a matter of it already exists as a possibility in your current company.
You just have to ask for it. Like you have to go to your boss and you see, I like that department.
I like what they do. Here's why I would fit with them.
And this is the title I want. Right. You just need to kind of ask.
I think I'm learning this by being around millennials more and more often.
Right. Like our generation, we ask for what we want and there's nothing wrong with that.
Like what's the worst that can happen? They say, oh, it's not possible.
You know, maybe next year. And then you decide, do you want to find a new job or stay and wait?
Right. Right. Right. That's a good point.
Yeah. So so you can be open about that. Something like that.
We would call that like a lateral move, like within the company.
And if you not necessarily like a promotion, but, you know, a change. um so you know I think it's okay to be open about that if you have a supportive boss um then you know you you know I mean I don't want to tell anybody what to do and get in trouble but it's worth a shot so the next thing is to use your network and again we just talked about this be careful guys I you know I would really even if you think that that colleague is a good friend like you just don't know just keep it out of work I would say You know, just tell your family and friends that are totally disconnected from your workplace, okay?
And then as we said, use those LinkedIn tools, but do know that maybe there is a way for people to see if you are open to work.
They say private mode open to work is what you set it at, right, Michelle?
Right, right. I mean, I haven't done this, but yeah, apparently this means that a recruiter could reach out to you.
So you never know. It's always a risk. It's always a risk.
But I mean, I would hope that most companies aren't doing that much research into your LinkedIn.
I don't know. Exactly. I would hope that they have other things to do.
Yeah. That they're busy, that they are not spying on you on social media.
Yeah, I would hope so. So, Michelle, do we have two expressions we can quickly teach our listeners?
Just as a side point today, the meat of it is really about this advice today.
But maybe we have two things our listeners can come away with.
What do you think? Yes. So one thing you could say is, I don't want anyone to know this, but I'm searching for another job.
Okay, good, good. I like that. Or number two, guys, please don't share this with anyone, but I am on the job hunt.
I am on the job hunt. And I like that on the blank hunt, right?
I'm on the dress hunt or something. I'm on the hunt for a dress.
I'm on the hunt for a bag. I'm on the hunt for a job.
Yeah. Right, right, right. Exactly. So you can use those, either one of those.
So Lindsay, what's the takeaway for today?
Guys, it can be hard to do this, right? To look for a job when you have a job.
Be very careful about, you know, don't do it on your work laptop.
Try not, don't, try not to do it during working hours although sometimes scheduling interviews can be really challenging right so in that case maybe you have to do it during your lunch hour but be discreet about it i would recommend don't tell anyone at your workplace just tell your family and friends be smart right because even if you are just you think you can trust people like people talk in the working world right michelle people talk i think yes yeah you just have to be really really smart about it and really careful so yeah if you're on the fence i would say err on the side of kasha absolutely and check out this podcast right this is a organic recommendation they're not sponsoring us although they should It's a great podcast by the Wall Street Journal.
As we work, I would recommend for our listeners who are very career oriented, add that to your queue and obviously continue coming back to Business English for three new episodes a week.
Good stuff, Michelle. All right. Okay, this was fun.
Thanks, Lindsay. Have a good one, everyone.
All right. Talk soon, Michelle. Bye. Bye.
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