This is the Business English Podcast, Episode 530 How Not to Step on Toes at Work.
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Hey there, Michelle.
How's everything going?
Everything's good.
Lindsay, how are you?
How are your toes?
Oh, my toes are okay right now.
I mean, why are you going to step on them?
No, I'm not going to.
But has anyone recently stepped on your toes?
Yeah, I hate when that happens.
It's the worst.
I also hate when I stub my toe.
That is also the worst.
That's even worse.
Yeah.
I remember whenever anybody used to step on.
I still remember this from when I was a kid, because it was so funny.
My grandma, if you stepped on her toe accidentally, she would say, it's such a big room.
She would say, why do you have to step on my toe?
Indirect way of saying, why are you so close to me that you're stepping on my toes?
Yeah, like you could step so many places.
Why does it have to be on my toe?
You have so many other options.
Yeah, it was cute.
But today guys, we're not talking about this actual literal stepping on someone's toes, but we are talking about this metaphorical use of this expression to step on someone's toes.
That can be really useful for business.
Yeah.
And this did actually come up in a conversation on Business English 529, just the previous episode.
Oh, really?
I guess it was.
Yeah.
529.
So have you considered sharing your ideas at work?
And I'm just going to double check that that's the right one.
But let's keep going, Michelle, here.
Okay.
Yeah, it is.
That's 529.
Yeah.
Interesting.
Interesting.
OK, so check out that episode, guys.
Oh, that's why.
Right.
That's why I came up.
Oh, my gosh.
I have it there.
I thought that was.
Yeah.
Yes.
And that's where this was inspired from.
Yeah.
And that's why we love to teach phrases that come up naturally.
I mean, we teach you real English, 100 percent real English here.
And we don't go to the dictionary and look up a word to teach you.
We teach you what we actually say.
Okay.
Yeah.
And it's funny because I had just planned this episode and then I was at dinner at a friend's house and she was actually talking to me about work.
Um, and she used this expression and she was like, Oh, I don't want to step on anyone's toes.
And I stopped her and I said, I just have to tell you, I just planned an episode about that.
And I'm so glad.
And it was about work.
So it just goes to show you, you know, this one is, this one's pretty common.
There you go.
Yep.
Absolutely.
A hundred percent.
I mean, and so what did she mean when she said that?
Let's just go back to what your friend was talking about.
I can't remember exactly what she was saying, but in general she was saying to interfere with something like interfere with someone's responsibility or task.
Like a lot of times you'll hear, I don't want to step on anybody's toes.
Right.
It could also mean to take over.
Yeah.
That's what I think of when I think of it first is I don't want to step on anyone's toes.
I don't want to like take anyone's place at work in a way.
Cause if all your tasks get taken up, someone's taking your place, right?
There's nothing left for you to do.
Yeah.
So this can make people really upset.
This can really rock the boat in a corporate setting.
Right.
Yeah, absolutely.
So we're going to talk about this more in just a second.
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So we do hear the phrase, I don't want to step on anybody's toes.
I also hear I don't want to step on any toes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it could be that as well.
So but let's talk about some examples of what this might be, what it might look like.
So one would be kind of taking over a project when someone else was the lead, or like giving you know someone's the lead and you're giving too much.
You're like taking too much ownership.
Yeah, exactly.
We always have to know our place on the team, in the company, in terms of roles, hierarchy.
Hierarchy is a big deal, more so in other countries, our listeners countries than the U.S., right?
Yeah.
Or telling someone how something should be done in an unhelpful way.
Unsolicited advice is what we call this.
Unsolicited advice.
Yep.
We've talked about that.
Perhaps being overly critical of something someone has done.
So giving feedback.
Or not asking if it's okay to do something when you should.
When you should.
When you should actually ask, right?
Before you go ahead and do it.
And this is tricky because sometimes people move jobs and they come from a different corporate culture where that original corporate culture might inspire you to just try something without asking for permission or getting approval.
But maybe you move into a company that has more red tape, a bigger company, and you need approval.
Right.
So we have to be aware of that as we're changing jobs.
Yes.
Yes, exactly.
Very interesting.
Good point.
So let's show what this sounds like.
So I don't mean to step on anybody's toes, but shouldn't we be paying more attention to the marketing plan?
Exactly.
So maybe you're not like the lead marketer, but you notice that we haven't talked about the marketing plan yet.
So that's why you're saying I don't mean to step on anybody's toes, right?
It's not necessarily your role, but you are on the team and you're concerned about the company.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's hard to know, you know, is it should you speak up?
You know, you're it's for the overall good of the company.
But then it might maybe somebody else was going to suggest that.
And it's tough.
It's tough.
It's tough.
Yep.
So, for example, she made things awkward when she stepped on his toes and didn't ask his permission to start planning the conference.
Yeah.
Mm hmm.
Or I don't want to step on your toes, but I have some ideas if that's okay.
Yeah.
So what does this convey?
If we're using this phrase, what does it mean about us?
Yeah, I think it means that if we're saying oh, I don't want to step on anyone's toes, it means you have like, a high emotional intelligence at work.
Right.
You know, you're you are aware of this.
You are aware of the different dynamics and the layers and what work people have put into something and your role.
And so I think it just shows that you consider that.
So I think when you say oh, I don't want to step on anyone's toes, it is showing that it's a good way to introduce something that you're a little hesitant about.
I totally agree.
So emotional intelligence, awareness of hierarchy in a company, of roles, of who's in charge of things, which is important, especially in larger companies, I guess.
I think smaller companies maybe.
You know, people are kind of just certain, people do everything right.
Start out like, oh, your job is to do everything.
Right, right.
And so there's maybe less of that, less concern about that.
But I think you made a good point here too, Michelle.
It's also about Kind of empathy over like knowing what it would feel like.
So a frustration of anticipating that someone might be frustrated or might feel threatened or might worry about their own job if you're stepping on their toes and doing their work or seeming to do a better job at their work, right?
Right.
So it's acknowledging something, rather than just saying, Oh actually, don't you think we should be doing this?
Yeah, right.
It's, it's it's acknowledging, like it's like kind of like the elephant in the room of like.
Yeah, I know, like I'm aware that this isn't necessarily my place.
Yeah, this and I'm I'm going to say it, but I want you to know it's not with any.
I'm not trying to take over, to take your job, to take your place.
Exactly.
And ideally we wouldn't have to think about politics.
But politics are a reality in any company, right?
No matter how big they are.
And there's always going to be politics anytime there are people involved.
Yeah.
Right.
And so that's the thing.
So that just helps you build your skills as a professional.
Maybe you.
Obviously you know how to articulate this in your native language, but we need the skills to articulate this in English.
Exactly.
Yep.
All right.
So then we don't want to always get locked into talking about toes because that's weird.
You don't want to be the person who's always talking about toes.
Deal with toes.
Yeah.
So there are other things you could say.
So one thing you could say is to undermine.
And you might hear it a lot of times like this, to undermine someone's authority.
So what is that about?
Yeah.
So...
Well, I'll just give you the sample sentence.
The supervisor got really upset when he felt his employee undermined his authority.
And especially people get upset if this is done in front of someone else.
Right.
Maybe that supervisor's boss or something.
Right.
It's kind of like to cut someone down.
Right.
Like.
You know, you're making them seem less significant or not correct.
Yeah, undermine is a good word.
I think we can do another episode, Michelle, maybe over on All Ears English podcast.
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We'll do another episode another day on the verb.
Just the verb undermine, just outside of the business context, because there's a lot of ways we use that verb that are quite high level, I think.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then there's overstep.
So very similar here.
You know.
You're putting forth too much into something and it could be crossing a line.
So I don't want to overstep here, but I was wondering if we could call in the consultant to help us out.
Yeah, exactly.
So maybe you're just like a low-level employee in a large company and you're suggesting a management decision which would be like a budget decision, right?
It's not cheap to call in a consultant.
Yep.
Um, so that could be like an overstep.
Also, I don't want to overstep here can also extend into our personal lives too.
You might say that if, I don't know, you're about to do something that seems a little out of place.
Like, do you know what I'm saying here?
Yeah.
Trying to think of an example.
Uh, I don't know.
If someone's getting married and, like You, want to walk the person down the aisle who's getting married, but you're not their father, let's say like something like that
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, that's interesting.
Yeah.
Or even something as simple as like, if somebody, do you have any friends?
Like, okay, let's say you throw a dinner party at your house, Lindsay.
Do you like when people like help you load the dishwasher and put things away?
Or do you have, do you like things done in a certain way and you don't, you just like let you do it?
This is a hot topic in my house because I'm really uncomfortable in other people's kitchens.
Yeah.
And my partner has no problem.
It wants to help out and stuff in the kitchen.
But I feel like I know in their head the host is thinking oh, they're loading the dishwasher wrong.
That's not where that glass goes.
I'm going to have to redo everything.
And they're getting stressed and they're about to explode in my head.
But then in other people's heads.
Sometimes people think oh, they want some help so they can get to bed at a decent hour after the dinner party.
Yeah.
I do not love to be in other people's kitchens.
I want to help.
I want to be generous, but I don't want to do it wrong.
Cause I don't want to stress them out, make it worse.
Well, but what about on the other end?
Do you, are you particular with like how your kitchen is organized?
Like, do you want the help?
Because I will take the help.
I don't care where, you know?
Yeah.
Cause I'm not that particular.
I'm not either.
I barely know how to load it myself.
So I'm not great.
I'm not great at it.
Something always comes out disgusting.
Anyway.
Um, so the, And then finally, to cross the line.
That's to really make things bad.
I think that's a pretty extreme one.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And this is used in a lot of other contexts too.
Like someone crossed a line when they made a comment and then they got into a fist fight or something right?
Hopefully not at work.
Yes.
And then encroach on someone's role.
Also really good.
The word encroach, very high level.
Encroach.
Yes, write that one down, guys.
It's like you're taking over or like almost taking over.
Yeah, it's like a gradual taking over, a slow.
You're slowly moving in on someone's tasks and their role.
So I don't want to encroach on your role, but if you're open to feedback, I do have some right okay Yes,
So yeah, we have a lot of things here that can be useful for these scenarios.
Should we do a role play?
Yeah, for sure.
So here we are working together and I'm leading a project.
So we got to know hierarchy when we talk about these phrases, right?
So I'm the leader of the project.
So let's see what happens.
All right.
All right.
So I think we're done.
Yeah.
Well, okay.
I don't want to step on your toes, but I think we should look at the introduction again.
Really?
Yeah, I definitely am not trying to undermine you in any way, but take a look at the first paragraph.
Okay, okay, I see, I see.
I hope I'm not crossing the line.
No, no, no, it's okay.
You're not overstepping at all.
Good.
I didn't want you to think I wasn't encroaching on your role or anything.
Don't worry about it.
Yeah.
Okay.
And obviously we're showing you all these phrases, but it sounds like, based on your tone and how many of these you used, I would not want to work at this place.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm terrified.
You're terrified of me.
Maybe we've got a history and I had to push you back at some point or something, right?
Yeah, yeah.
I mean as a leader of a company.
It depends on the size of your company, of course, and so many things.
But we at least in American business culture, we usually try to aim for a more flat structure where people can feel empowered at different levels to speak up and say what they think right.
Yes, exactly.
So we hope we're not creating an environment where someone's like, oh I'm so sorry, they're shaking.
Yeah, yeah.
But let's go through it.
So first I said I don't want to step on your toes, but I think we should look at the introduction again.
Good.
Yes.
And then I said, oh, really?
You said, yeah, I'm definitely not trying.
Again, you emphasized, I'm not trying to undermine you in any way.
So clearly something has happened in the past.
It seems like between you and me, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then I said, I hope I'm not crossing the line.
And then I said, no, no, no, it's okay.
You're not overstepping at all.
Right.
So Yeah, you're saying it's okay.
And then I said good, I didn't want you to think I was encroaching on your role, because maybe that's what happened last time.
Yeah.
Lindsay, you got to take it easy.
I know.
I sound like a really mean manager here.
Yeah.
So that's, you know, you might not use all of these in one.
This sounds very scary.
But we gave you lots of different examples.
Guys remember, listen to the episode from yesterday, because that's how we were inspired to do this episode.
So again, that was episode 529.
Have you considered sharing your ideas at work?
Yeah.
I mean, for the takeaway for today, what comes to mind for me is cultural differences in business.
Oh, my gosh.
I mean, you know, I lived and worked in Japan for a year and a half.
I didn't work in a corporate environment in Japan.
I guess the company I was working for was it was Eon.
It was kind of a corporation that taught English, but we worked in a school.
But I could see formalities and I heard stories from my students about their working lives that the hierarchy was significant, like significantly more important than what I was used to or knew from American business culture.
That might be changing now, especially with younger companies and employees and things, but this can be really different around the world.
So know your own culture, know the culture that you're working in and know what those differences are right.
Super important for your success.
Exactly.
Well, very good point Lindsay, and thanks for talking about this with me today.
And be careful about toes and stepping on them.
Yes.
Stay away from people's toes.
That's right.
Yes.
That's where this all comes down to.
All right, Michelle, thanks for hanging out on the show today.
We'll see you next time.
All right, Lindsay.
Bye.
Have a good one.
Bye.
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