This is the Business English Podcast, Episode 479.
Are you logical or rational?
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Hey there, Michelle.
How's it going today?
Hi, Lindsay.
I am good.
How are you?
Good, good.
What are we talking about on Business English today?
Okay.
So, Lindsay, would you say you're a logical person?
Oh, it's a good question, Michelle.
Not always.
I mean, the thing I don't do well is I don't dress for the weather very well.
I really don't.
You know, I know, logically speaking, that when it's, you know, beautiful August weekend, it's a hundred degrees in Denver.
I know it's going to be 55 in the mountains.
And we go to the mountains and I go in my cutoff jeans, jean shorts and my sandals and then I'm freezing.
It's not logical.
I don't, you know, I don't follow the logic that I need jeans and a puffy coat.
Right?
Right.
Right.
So I'm not very logical.
What about you?
Have you made this mistake more than once?
Multiple times.
And does your partner say, come on?
Yeah, I get a lot of teasing for sure.
That's funny.
Yeah, good answer, Lindsay.
So today we're going to answer a great listener question about two similar words.
So this comes to us from YouTube from Ilya Hosseini.
I can read the question.
It says, hi to the All Ears English family.
I've been listening to your podcast for about one year and my speaking has improved.
That is awesome.
That's fantastic.
Congratulations.
Yes, that's great.
I got a question.
I want to know what is the difference between the words rational and logical?
Okay.
And then they put bye with a little heart.
So great question.
This might be an Allers English listener, but I also wanted to snatch this for business.
I think that's really, really helpful for business.
So I'm sticking it on this podcast.
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Yes.
So yeah, great question from Ilya.
This is yeah, it's tricky because rational and logical.
They may seem like synonyms and they are often used as such.
I wouldn't say they're synonyms, but there are key differences.
And we definitely want to go into that because yeah, really important, very nuanced, very advanced question.
I think when you quickly glance at the words, you know, it feels like they're synonyms, right?
And in some ways, but then you really think about it and they're a little bit different, right?
So that's what we're going to get into today.
Yes.
So let's start with logic.
Um so logic.
What do you think?
Yeah, like with my example at the beginning of the episode it's, you know, we know.
Logic says that the temperature at 5000 feet, which is where Denver is, is going to be higher than the temperature at 12000 feet, which is where We are in the mountains.
So that's logical that you would want to wear a different kind of clothing.
Right.
Right.
Systems, weather, altitude.
These are things we can count on and that shouldn't change.
Right.
Right.
Yeah.
And then rationality is more about how these things like kind of fit into the world.
Right.
It's more flexible.
It's less rigid than logic.
Right.
So this is more about experience or thinking things through.
So in some ways, it's also rational about this weather example.
It's kind of both because, it is true, based on numbers, based on systems, based on altitude, like you said.
But it's also about experience, thinking it through, getting the feeling.
Yes.
Yeah.
So there's definitely overlap between the two.
Oh, for sure.
Yeah.
So, I mean, you might make a logical decision that isn't rational, right?
Like, so maybe you're making, like, maybe you're being logical.
I mean, I think that's where people get into arguments sometimes.
Maybe somebody is more, you know, the head and somebody is more the heart, and the logical person will say oh, but we have X, Y and Z, And if you add that to this, then it means that this is the logical conclusion, right?
But maybe someone feels, but that isn't rational.
It doesn't take into account all these other things.
Or maybe a rational decision isn't logical, right?
Yeah, yeah.
I'm thinking about preppers.
So there, you know, preppers, there are preppers out there.
It's a community where people store food, right?
And And I'm trying to think through this example.
I guess, you know, maybe it's logical.
I'm not sure how logical it is.
It depends on your opinion.
But the thinking that it depends on where you live, like maybe you think there's going to be some kind of hurricane or natural disaster event where you're going to need the supplies right to go into hiding or something right.
But is it rational?
Depends on where you live, right?
Depends.
Are there tornadoes?
Are there hurricanes?
Are there other things?
So we can play around with a few examples here.
Right.
Yeah.
So yeah, let's go into an example, maybe the one that you might use for work.
So as I understand it, so this is how I would explain it.
So you're planning a team dinner and you're deciding how much food to order.
So it would be logical to order exactly based on how many people respond.
Yes.
Right.
You're taking that number 55 yeses.
We're going to order.
Okay.
But what would be the rational piece?
So it'd be rational to take into account the past knowledge of you know who's canceled last year or who tends to come last minute.
What's the personalities of the people that are coming and maybe what does the weather look like that weekend for that event?
Right?
Right.
So you're taking in.
You know those aren't things that can be really written down as a formula, but you just have to take these things into account.
It's that extra step.
It's more of that emotional piece.
Yeah, it's the emotional piece.
It's a little more of the gut piece, right?
Some people have really good gut reactions or they like they list their gut is right.
And so they'll listen to their gut and make a decision of how much to order, based on what their gut's telling them.
Right?
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
Okay.
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All right, Michelle.
So is it more important to be logical or rational at work?
Ooh, good question.
I think you have to have a little bit of both.
You know, you have to take formulas into consideration, but you also can't just go by that.
You have to think about your experience, things that feel right to you.
So I think you can't just only have one.
What do you think?
I think you're right.
I think a little bit of both is good.
And as you get more experience in your workplace, you'll have more rational thinking, right?
We have a lot more data.
We build our own data to work with rather than just logic.
I mean, another example would be at work, right?
It might not be logical to make a certain hire based on the current numbers of your business, right?
So maybe, oh, maybe it's a little bit of a push financially and logically.
It doesn't make sense, but it might be rational because your client base is growing.
You need to get ahead of the game, right?
Yes.
You don't want to wait till the last minute to hire someone.
So, you know, that's an example I thought of with logical and rational.
I like it.
And do we use these as synonyms?
I mean, we do, right, Michelle, as we said before.
Yeah, right.
And again, I don't think it's a big deal if you kind of mix these up a little bit.
I don't think...
Um, it's because it's not that simple to completely articulate the difference between these two words.
So I wouldn't stress, uh, it isn't rational to stress about this, um, or logical, right?
You want to focus again, connection, not perfection, but there are those you know, differences.
But sometimes they just kind of overlap.
Exactly.
So you know we use this.
You'd see yourself using these words, maybe making decisions at meetings and presentations all over the workplace all the time, right.
Especially talking with someone and sharing your decisions or what your thinking is.
Yeah, right.
And speaking of decisions, you might often hear it as logical decision or a rational decision, so those it's very common how you would hear it with the word decision, and also a person can be logical or irrational, and sometimes you might hear a person Being described as irrational more than rational right.
I don't know that I, you know, oh, you don't normally say you're being rational.
No, because it's within the norm.
You know, you're just acting normal.
But when you're being irrational, you'll get called out.
Yeah.
Or what about illogical?
We could also describe... I don't know that we describe people as being illogical.
We might describe a decision as being illogical.
Right.
I agree.
There's a separation and that ties in with our explanation.
Rational involves a bit of an emotional judgment, right?
Exactly.
A gut feeling.
A person is making a decision.
Logic is... I mean, a computer could give us logic, right?
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So...
Um, very interesting.
The difference between these two.
So let's do a role play and put it together.
Um, here we are at a meeting at work and we're trying to make a decision.
Okay, here we go.
Okay, so the logical thing to do here would be to take some measurements and just choose what will fit and whatever is cheapest.
Yes, but we want to do what is rational.
Of course, we want to pick what fits and what's most cost effective, but we need to take style into account as well as our company's colors.
Yeah, good point.
Makes me think about AI.
I was thinking about AI!
Yeah, right?
I mean, right now, probably, I'm guessing AI is probably logical, but when does it become rational, right? i can't believe we were thinking about the same thing i was thinking about before we started the role play i was thinking the same thing because i forget what you said but yeah that definitely right now ai has the logic they can take all the information but then it's when when is it rational scary it's happening i've seen all the sci-fi films i've seen them yes yeah um Yeah, it'll be interesting.
It'll be the next 10 years will be really fascinating to see what happens, you know, with AI.
Sure.
Yeah.
So let's go through it.
I said the logical thing to do here would be to take some measurements, just choose what will fit.
Right.
And whatever is cheapest.
So I'm going kind of by a system using the numbers.
Right.
And then I said, yeah, but what we want to do is rational.
Right.
We want to pick what fits, but what's most cost effective.
But then we need to think about style and our company's colors.
Right.
Right.
So that's where you kind of you kind of do need a human currently.
Yeah.
To be rational in a way or irrational.
Right.
Or irrational.
Just bringing something to the table.
And it is common.
I feel like I hear you.
I don't know.
Maybe I've seen this on movies, but you hear this a lot between spouses.
Right.
One spouse saying you're being completely irrational right now.
Right.
Yeah.
Right.
And the person getting more upset. yeah oh yeah not not a great thing to say to you yeah i wouldn't recommend it no no no it's definitely a little bit of an it's definitely an insult so yeah yeah yeah um guys check up us check out episode 471 that was soon versus quickly in english what's the difference so another one where you get to tell the difference between very similar words Yeah, I mean, this is the takeaway for today, right?
So these are very nuanced words but at your level guys, if you're doing business in English, you're at the B2 C1, C2 level.
You're ready to kind of pull out the nuances of things and choose the right word in the right moment.
So we want to challenge you to go for that.
You know, think about the episode, play it again and then think about scenarios in your business life where this might come up.
Yeah, for sure.
I love it.
All right.
Great.
I think that's a great place to end today.
Lindsay, thanks for talking about this with me.
And guys, thank you so much for listening.
All right.
Good stuff.
Talk to you soon, Michelle.
Have a good day.
Bye.
Bye.
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