This is the Business English Podcast, Episode 449, Three Tips for Schmoozing at Work.
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Hey, Aubrey, what's shaking? How's it going?
I'm great. How are you, Lindsay? Good. Glad to be on the mic with you.
Aubrey, I'm going to ask you a question, and I'm curious what you're going to say.
Do you ever have to schmooze as part of your job?
Oh, interesting. Schmooze. I don't think I currently have to schmooze at all, but I have in previous jobs.
I worked for an MBA program and we definitely had to schmooze professors sometimes, prospective students, right?
I did the catering and that was sort of schmoozing to make sure that it was like nicer food that they liked, right?
It's interesting. There's a lot that goes into schmoozing.
Interesting. Interesting. Yeah. Schmoozing.
This is what we're talking about. And it's a social skill, right?
Social skills are something that have really come up lately, Aubrey, as a theme as I've been talking to our students at Open Conversation Club, fluency parties, social skills feel so important right now.
Absolutely. And this is a really interesting one where you can actually easily break the connection if someone feels like you're schmoozing them or it's insincere or right, there's a very fine line. to doing it in a way that makes someone feel valued and appreciated and to doing something that feels icky sort of, right?
Yeah. And you're kind of walking the line and you have to be very careful not to flip over into feeling disingenuous, like feeling people thinking you're disingenuous, right?
Exactly. Right. And it is an amazing way to connect and build relationships when it's done well.
So this will be interesting to talk about it today.
We're first going to just go into this word schmooze and It actually comes from Yiddish.
It can mean to talk with someone in a lively and friendly way.
If you Google the word, that's what you'll find.
And maybe in order to impress them or gain an advantage, but it really has evolved to often include more like providing perks or benefits, right?
If someone is schmoozed, I hear often people talk about, you know, box seats at a basketball game or going golfing with someone.
And we think more about that when we think of schmoozing.
It's not as much about the conversation now.
Okay. So you mean providing an experience maybe for a client?
Right. Yeah, so it's kind of both, right?
It can be just that conversation where you're trying to build your network, build it, but it's often about the benefits or perks that someone has provided.
Yeah, interesting. Okay, do we have any example sentences here?
Yeah, so you might say, his job is basically schmoozing clients.
I have a friend that this is his job. He works for a land developer and he's just, that's what he does all day.
Every day he takes someone else to lunch and he's a schmoozer.
That's what he does. Yeah, I have a couple of people in my extended family to my stepmother in law.
She does business development. And I think that's what she does, too.
It's also in construction in the development world.
I think that's the job we want. Right. Exactly.
Right. I think that's pretty common. And it's interesting how some personalities are. better suited to that, right?
I'm sure we have listeners out there that you're probably really good at schmoozing.
For others, it's outside of our comfort zone.
So that's where it sort of becomes like, it's a skill that has to be built.
It really is, but so crucial. Relationships are so important.
We're going to be building professional English level two this summer.
And one of the very first foundational modules is around social skills.
So important. We have another quick example here.
Someone might ask you, can you take Ms. Walters to lunch?
I know you hate to schmooze, but this is a big account.
You're inviting them to lunch. This would be considered schmoozing, but you could also call it building relationships, building your network.
Sure. Schmooze is just a slangy way to say it.
There are other ways we could say it. Also, recognizing that maybe someone doesn't love to do that is another high-level connection skill when you are delegating work to your coworkers.
Very good point, right? If it's someone who's less comfortable with that, there's likely someone that is better suited for it that you could choose.
100%. Okay, what else do we need to know here?
Yeah, so this is interesting. So when you sort of Google this word, there's more of a focus on, I think this is what it used to mean more, complimenting.
You know, having a conversation where you're building someone up and making them feel valued.
And it's interesting. There's a fine line between complimenting someone and flattering them.
So we're going to do a part two with this series about the difference between the two and how important it is if you are trying to pay someone a compliment that what does that mean to make them feel flattered instead and why you would want to avoid that.
Oh my gosh, I'm so excited for that episode.
That's going to be a really good one. And so what else here, Aubrey?
What else? So we talked about how schmoozing often consists of providing favors too.
So I've had a question for you, Lindsay.
What would you say is the difference between schmoozing and networking?
I would say, yeah, it feels like schmoozing.
There's a little more effort, a little more you're trying, right?
You're trying to, you really want to make that relationship happen versus networking is a little bit more neutral to me.
It's just you're out there meeting people.
Maybe you don't necessarily have to build that particular relationship.
You're just meeting people. Yeah, I agree.
Yeah, it's interesting. It's a lot about the goal.
And when we're networking, we're really just wanting to meet people, build our network.
And schmoozing, often you have more of a goal of landing an account, getting a client, right?
You're sort of trying to provide some type of benefit, maybe to get them to choose you over your competitors.
Whereas networking isn't as much about that.
It's just about building relationships. I love it.
And are we going to pull in a little advice from a psychologist?
I love that. Yes, this is interesting. So we found an article by Mark Travers.
It was called Do's and Don'ts of Workplace Schmoozing Advice from a Psychologist.
This was fascinating. It was from 2024 in Forbes.com, so Forbes magazine.
And we're going to share a few ideas from this article, both here in part one and also in part two, because he also talked a lot about the difference between complimenting and flattering and why it's important to do one instead of the other.
But we're also going to share our own ideas here because when it comes to schmoozing, there are some really important things to keep in mind because you can do it You can do it badly, right, Lindsay?
Yeah. We've seen it, especially in the movies.
I feel like I see this a lot in rom-coms.
Just very poor examples of schmoozing. Right.
When someone's making others feel uncomfortable or it's over the top, right?
You're offered, bombarded with gifts and favors, asked too overtly, maybe, for someone to become a client.
And then people just get turned off and they're not interested.
Oh, yeah. It's a really tough line that we have to walk here.
So what would be the first idea that came from the article?
Yeah. So this is to be sincere, right? To think about your goal when you are schmoozing someone.
Is your goal to build relationships? If so, whether really you want this account or not, if your end goal really is to build relationships, you will be more sincere in both your actions and the things you say.
And then if your goal really, if you think about it, if it really is to manipulate and just land that account or to gain some kind of favor, you might come across as insincere either in what you say or do.
So you have to really want on many levels to build the relationship, not just get the business, right?
Exactly. Exactly. That's interesting. So if you need a client, you need an account, right?
And that's your only goal and you don't really care about them and the relationship with them, they will feel that.
No matter how many phrases we could give you, you still would likely say those.
It's in the tone. It's in everything that we do.
So really it's about thinking about your goal, being sincere and really wanting to build that connection, build that relationship.
Yeah, it's very similar to dating, right?
You could tell when someone's kind of desperate and they just want to be in a relationship, right?
And they don't necessarily have a lot of other options.
So think of it like, would you like that in dating?
No. So people don't want that in business either.
That's such a good point, right? When it comes to building relationships, this is across the globe, whether it's a business or personal relationships, you want to feel like someone is sincere, like they really care about you as a person, and they want to build that relationship with you.
And then they would be more likely to want to be your client, have you they would trust you with the account because they feel like you are sincere and care. yes exactly all right the next one is don't overdo it so in the article we talked about the author said you know talks about it would be easy to go overboard right so again there's a fine line between being grateful for perks um and being smoothed versus being uncomfortable okay exactly right It's interesting.
You can very easily overdo it, especially if you start feeling a little bit desperate.
Maybe there are a lot of competitors and you feel like you really need to stand out.
So you're sending extra gifts and letting them know you have tickets to this and that.
You can easily overdo it and just make someone uncomfortable.
Has that ever happened to you, something like that, Lindsay? not really i don't think anyone schmoozes all their english all that much to be honest no one has taken us out to a fancy sports scam i'm waiting for the day though uh i did have this happen in my personal life i love that you share that it works for relationships too um there was a young man who just like sent flowers every day it was too much overdid it it made me uncomfortable like this is too much it's like they're trying to buy your affection and the same thing happens with business relationships Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Don't go overboard with the grand gestures.
Once you've already got someone, then you can make your grand gestures, right?
Maybe if you already have the account because they won't feel like they're being bought.
They would just feel like you are doing something thoughtful, right?
Yeah, you got to be careful with those big gestures in dating and in business.
Love it. Absolutely. What would be number three?
This is from the article just mentioning the importance of following up.
And so this is interesting that when someone is schmoozing, if you're providing these perks and these benefits. there's no guarantee, there's no obligation for anything to come of it if you don't follow up, right?
So it's important to nurture that relationship after any kind of initial interaction by following up, staying in touch.
So this goes without saying a lot really in the business world, but it's especially vital for schmoozing if there's a cost to you and then you don't follow up, what a waste, right?
Yeah, yeah. This is a place to look out for self-sabotage, professional self-sabotage as well, right?
Some people can go to conferences, they can work the room, make a lot of contacts, and then they can be very slow to follow up.
You have to go home and you have to reach out, connect with people on LinkedIn, and make sure that's just the starting point, that conversation you had over a glass of wine.
Now you need to move forward and start to talk about what could we do together, okay?
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Okay, Aubrey, let's do a role play and see what this looks like in action.
Okay. Awesome. So you and I are at a lunch meeting.
You're an account manager and I am a potential high value client.
Oh, wow. Okay. All right. Here we go. So glad you were able to meet today.
I think this has been a really productive conversation.
I agree. Thanks for inviting me. I actually wanted to ask if you're free on the 8th.
I've got two seats for the Knicks game, VIP lounge access, premium drinks, the whole deal.
Oh, wow. That sounds amazing. I'm in. Perfect.
I'd love to keep the conversation going.
And it's a great way for me to say thanks for taking the time to meet today.
Absolutely. Text me the details. wow i'm really going for it here geez high value must be some kind of big account right i love that the big money player but i like this i think this is a good role play for showing that You know, you're definitely like you said, going for it.
Right. You're offering a great perk here, building the relationship and not just sending me tickets.
You're going to come with me. Right. This is an amazing chance for us to talk more, to build the relationship more.
And throughout this role play, I think the tone feels it feels like you care about the relationship with me.
Yeah, it doesn't sound disingenuous or fake or overly desperate, right?
Exactly. Yeah. So it's interesting. If we want to go through this, some of the phrases you use, right?
You're thanking me for taking the time to meet with you.
And I think this has been a productive conversation.
So you had invited me for lunch. We've had a productive conversation and you're taking the opportunity to make plans for something future because whether I'm a high value client or not, after this lunch, we could never talk again if you don't do something to continue to build that relationship.
Yeah. And I'm being very intentional and saying kind of what path I want this relationship to take.
I said, I said, perfect. I'd love to keep the conversation going.
I'm being explicit and clear. Right. Right.
But that's great. I think this is a way that you can be explicit and clear without making someone uncomfortable.
Right. It's all very positive. Just letting me know that you value this connection, that you want to build that relationship.
Yeah. It's ironic that the more you voice what you want in business in terms of a relationship, the less sketchy you seem.
That's a good point, right? If there's subterfuge, if I feel like you're trying to be underhanded or sneaky about it, that would feel off to me.
But where you're voicing it, you're being very above board with all of it, it would feel good to me.
Yeah, and I'm owning it, right? That's an important point to keep in mind, and we can come back another day and give our listeners more words for that, and tools, but that is an important piece.
Be explicit, be clear, be upfront about where you'd like a business connection to go.
I love that. Yes, this is a great phrase for that.
I'd love to keep the conversation going, right?
You're saying, yes, I'm providing these tickets, but also I'd love to talk business while we're there.
Yeah, that's important too. that you're probably going to bring it up at the game as well.
So if I am not interested, if I don't want to go any further, then that would be my chance to say no, thank you.
Yeah, and that's important too. So I'm not only being explicit that I want to keep the conversation going, but I'm saying I want to talk business there, as you said, Aubrey, instead of just social, like socializing or chatting or something, right?
Yeah, I think it's smart. It's smart to keep that, you know, and so that you're not wasting your time or your resources and you're both on the same page.
Love it. Aubrey, is there another episode our listeners must check out now that we're finishing up today?
Absolutely. If you missed episode 437 right here of the Business English podcast, it was called Rest Assured.
This phrase will put your customers at ease.
I was looking over that episode that you and Michelle recorded.
It has some great phrases for schmoozing. for putting customers at ease.
So if you missed it, scroll up and definitely hit follow on the podcast because you are missing great episodes.
Yeah, I love that. Social English. We're going to be going into this a lot more on business English and all ears English.
So important. What's a takeaway today, Aubrey?
We've shown our listeners how to kind of toe that line in between, just making sure you don't seem weird.
Exactly. You're making people uncomfortable because this is a vital skill.
Networking, schmoozing in a way that's sincere and builds connection rather than hurting them, rather than making someone feel uncomfortable or you're trying to buy that relationship.
So today's tips will help you schmooze in a way that builds connection.
All right. So good. Hit the follow button right now if you love our style of connection, not perfection.
Excellent. Aubrey, see you very soon. Awesome.
See you next time. Bye. Bye. Thank you. tap the link in the show notes.
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