This is the Business English Podcast, Episode 191.
Do you coffee badge? How to talk about your in-office routine in English.
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Oh, well, it's pretty chilly. And I'm enjoying some, you know, hot beverages a lot.
You know, my coffee, my tea. I've been drinking a lot of tea recently, actually.
Really? Interesting. Black tea, green tea?
Herbal tea. Herbal tea. Okay. That's the kind that doesn't have any caffeine, right?
Yes. Yes. So, yeah, but today we're actually talking about coffee, kind of, not really, but we're talking about a concept with coffee.
Have you heard of the expression coffee badging?
Believe it or not, I've never heard of this.
I have no idea what this is. So I'm going to learn today along with our listeners.
I'm excited. Well, this is, I found an article about coffee badging.
I had never heard of it either, but I thought this is a really fun, interesting topic because on this show, we talk a lot about working from home, hybrid working, how things are changing post pandemic and things like that.
So we're going to talk about this concept of coffee badging, and we are also going to give you some expressions that you can use related to this.
Okay, I'm really excited because coffee is a big part of my life.
So I'll see how this comes into play here.
Yeah, let's get into it. All right. Where do we start?
Okay, guys. Well, this is from an article from CNBC.com.
This was from October 5th, 2023. So just recently, it's called bosses want people back in the office, but employees are finding a workaround.
It's called coffee badging. And this is from by Jennifer Liu.
Lindsay, just real quick. What does that mean?
A workaround? A workaround is a way to avoid the direct thing that someone wants, but doing something that kind of fulfills the goal a little bit. right yes another way to do something is a workaround and you know employees are getting savvy right because when it comes back to you michelle did they say in this article what percentage of people are fully back in the office let's say in new york city i don't know um i'm not sure if it said the specifics uh i don't i don't have it in my notes right now but i know that we did uh recently remember we did an episode about working from home and different countries um i don't have the number on that but Yeah, we don't know the number, but it is creeping up.
Let me see. Here's a quote. More workers are returned to the office found that 58% of the workers were back in the office.
So we're probably at like 60% or 65% in Manhattan in New York City is my guess.
So 40% are still working from home, right?
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So, yeah, this is interesting, though.
Like, what does being back mean? What does it mean?
Right? So that's what this is all about.
So, guys, before we get into that, we have an amazing app.
We do. It's at, go get it at allearsenglish.com slash app, A-P-P.
Yes. So why is this app amazing, Lindsay?
Well, I think the thing that listeners like the most about the app is that they can see the transcripts right there in the app as they listen.
So everyone can listen to every episode for free on the app.
So if you want to go over there and just start listening, that works.
But if you become a premium member with a seven-day free trial, you do get to see all the transcripts for regular episodes.
That's what people like the best, Michelle.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's huge. That's huge for learning.
Yeah. So go on over again. That's allearsenglish.com slash app, A-P-P.
I love it. Let's get into this today. So we had a survey, right?
So that 58% actually, so the article discusses a survey by it's Owl Labs and This is from June and there were 2000 people in this survey.
And so the 58%, I think you mentioned, it says 58% of those who have a hybrid schedule say they coffee badge.
So I don't know if the 58% is how many are back in or?
Yeah. Well, I just want to make sure we don't get confused here.
So what I, I grabbed a quick, I just Googled quick and we have to double check these stats.
So that 58% was what percentage are back in the office.
Oh, that's funny. Like what percentage are actually back?
Like their bosses have said, come back. So it's not the same, right?
So this just happened to be the same number.
That's weird that you're saying here, 58% of the people who are, let's say, employed are hybrid, do the coffee badging thing.
So we need to know what this is. What all right let's figure out right i have to give it away already i'm keeping it a secret guys i quote from the article uh coffee badging is quote the act of going into the office building for their morning coffee earning an imaginary badge for it and then going home to work for the remainder of the day it's basically putting in face time right is face time yeah yeah yeah yeah and why exactly why would this be advantageous michelle Well, the article talks about how people might enjoy going to the work.
They might enjoy seeing some of their coworkers or doing some things in the office, maybe getting lunch or whatever it is, but they're not going to stay for the full day.
They just want to, like you said, put in FaceTime.
Maybe they want to avoid the work. It talked about you know, not commuting during rush hour.
Um, so I think that that, that can be a definite highlight.
So, but people don't want to sit at the desk all day.
Yeah. And I want to pull out some, some words here.
So the badge word, right? So on our recent fluency party back in October, Aubrey did a warmup with us and asked us what our favorite animal was.
And she said her favorite animal was the honey badger.
Yeah. And we talked about how that's so fun because honey badger is used as a slang in English.
What does that mean to you, Michelle? You say that person's a honey badger.
I can't remember what it wasn't there like a whole viral thing.
How do you measure don't something I can't remember what it is.
Can you tell us? Yeah, there was a viral video.
It's saying here, but basically the term is used to mean someone who displays indifference or disregard for others opinions, but it's using kind of a funny way.
The person's a honey badger. They just do whatever they want and they don't care what people think. right?
They take what they want. So I think it's definitely related.
It has to be. Coffee badging is related to the concept of honey badger, right?
Like it's the same noun, right? Badge. I think of it.
Yeah, right. I think, well, I think badger, that's the animal.
I don't know. To me, I think of it as like, to me, I think of it as like, you get like, yeah, that what they talked about, that imaginary badge.
Like I went into the office, like check, I did that.
Oh, That's how I see it. Got it. Okay. Well, we've got two derivatives here.
No, but that makes sense as well. I mean, it does.
Yeah. Coffee badge. Okay. Coffee badge, meaning getting a badge, like a sticker on your shirt that says, I had my coffee with my boss.
I smiled. I went into work today. I'm going in here.
Yeah. Now I'm leaving. I love it. Let's keep going.
What else? How do we use this? Tell us more.
All right. Well, so just before we do that, guys, we want to remind you, we did another great episode.
Just 190 just yesterday was it's crunch time.
How to say you need to work hard in English.
So maybe you don't want to be coffee badging when it's crunch time, right?
Love it. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Oh, my gosh.
If you have to do actual work, if they need you in the office and you're doing the coffee badge thing, don't do it.
You know, it's just especially if you're on a team.
I mean... Show up and help your teammates.
Right. That's part of being part of a company.
We're working together to create an outcome.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, this is just about flexibility, I think, which is what we've seen become so important recently. um in what people are looking for in a job um they want to be able to oh i have a place to go i do you know because some people they want to go into work they like that yeah but they don't want to have to sit there all day and have a time where they can finally leave they want to have that flexibility yeah but i think this is about people taking advantage a little bit for themselves don't you think kind of it feels a little sinister the way if i'm understanding the term correctly it feels like people are coming in to build their careers to serve like to get the face time but then maybe if the work is not if they're needed in the office they're gone is that or am i misunderstanding the concept Oh, if they are needed in the office?
I don't know about that. I don't know that it's like avoiding it when you're needed.
But I think of it like this. I mean, I've heard when I ask a lot of friends of mine, are they back in the office a lot of days?
They will say, oh, I'm in, you know, three days a week or something like that.
But they might have, you know, where they used to be there at an office before the pandemic between the hours of nine and five, maybe they're in at... you know 10 and leave at three yeah yeah yeah for sure so we have to read the room here to see if this is okay if our office can support this or if there are important things happening at work that we need to be there for that we might be missing right michelle Right.
And I think that's an important thing. And I wanted to ask your opinion on that.
I mean, one of the things that this Owl Labs, who did the survey, the CEO said that, you know, there are some offices that are monitoring this.
But what he says is, I think his last name is Weishaupt, is that this, he calls it attendance monitoring and says it's a trust killer.
Yeah. um so he says if i feel like i have to be sitting at my desk at 4 30 on a friday even though i'm not doing anything productive because my boss might call me that's a trust issue there yeah for sure i mean you know i think that definitely the pandemic changed so much at least in the US, we know it's different in different parts of the world, but a glimpse into American work culture, it changed a lot before it was nine to five, be at your desk until five, whether you're just pushing papers or you're doing something productive, I think we've gotten a little smarter.
We know that work can be done from anywhere.
But I think as employees, we also have to understand our company culture.
Like, are we being judged by that standard or by an older standard?
And then maybe think about moving jobs if we don't like the standard, if the old standards are coming back in, you know?
Yes. Yeah. Well said. Yeah. You have to think, I mean, because things are going to constantly change all the time.
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Exclusions apply. See details online. Okay, Michelle, let's get deeper into this.
Okay. Well, so I think one of the, they may have mentioned this in the article, but it's not necessarily about not getting your work done.
So it's just about where and when are you doing the work?
So during the pandemic, a lot of parents were doing work at night.
You know, they were at home with their kids and so they would just be home with their kids and then they would work all night for hours and hours.
And so I think that, kind of that changed things.
Like when does the work have to be done?
It doesn't matter if you are getting your work done on time.
So I'm curious, Lindsay, how do you feel about that?
Well, I don't know. I have mixed feelings about this because I was reading something recently that the research is now coming out to be pretty mixed as to whether work from home actually is as effective as work in the office.
I think we're probably going to end up needing a place where we're somewhere in the middle, right?
Where we can Yeah, cut off that like, you know, that last hour on Fridays where we're just sitting there.
That's ridiculous. I completely agree with that.
But we need to look at the research and see what's come out after the pandemic in the next couple of years and then make decisions based on that.
Like what is actually working? you know?
So yeah. Yeah. And I think, I think like they talked about the trust, I mean, with the supervisor, you know, they also talk about that.
I mean, how it could be difficult for some supervisors to believe the work will get done.
Like they don't have a handle on it. They don't know when the work is happening.
They don't know what's going on. So it might, you have to really trust your employees to know, okay, they're good.
They're going to get it done by the deadline.
And yeah you have to be a little hands off so yes it takes a little bit of effort on that end i think oh my gosh for sure for sure it'll be really interesting to see like in in three or four years where is most of the work being done is it really still hybrid are more people back in the office are we going in the other direction it'll be fascinating but yeah I mean, and I think it's just I think it comes down to being smart about it.
I have a friend who is was forced to be in her office a certain amount of days a week.
And she was the only person on her team that was at that location.
And she would be zooming from the office.
Yeah. So that's ridiculous. Yeah. Like, you know, we have to be smart about it and think what's actually reasonable.
Don't be silly. I mean, that's just like Lindsay said, that's ridiculous.
So we have to think about how things are evolving and, um, Yeah, see how things are working.
But I agree, Lindsay, it'll be interesting to see what they what they come out with in the future as to where people are the most productive.
Yeah, that makes me think of a podcast that I think I've recommended, but I'm going to mention it again.
It's called Fixable. It's by a professor at Harvard Business School and a consultant.
And I just bought their book called Move Fast and Fix Things, which is a play on move fast and break things.
Right. Zuckerberg's famous quote, which is now very faded quote.
But anyways, they had a caller in, someone called in, a CEO, talking about how can they now structure work, right?
Should they have just on-site days once a week where everyone has to be in, but it has to be at the same time, right?
Because the problem is people are coming in when it works for them, but then no one else is in at that time.
That's the problem that people are running into, right?
It's not matching up, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, the recommendation is, you know, plan specific days where everyone comes in.
And then there are great things that happen those days that couldn't happen remotely.
Right? Maybe once every two weeks, everyone's in.
That's like a career building day. That's an inspirational day.
That's a brainstorming day. And then all the work happens asynchronously.
On the other days, if that makes sense. Yeah.
That sounds good. That sounds like a smart way to do it.
It does. Yeah. I feel like that would make everybody happy.
For sure. Although I'm sure people would have a problem with it as well.
Yeah. But that's what I would do. I mean, luckily, we don't have this problem at all.
We've always been remote as a company and we have never thought about even being in an office.
But that's probably what I would do if I ran a big company is set it up so that once every two weeks, everyone's in on that day and it's your job.
You have to come to work. Right. That's to get paid.
You come to work and then the other days you have some flexibility.
Super interesting. Yeah. Yeah. All right.
So, guys, what can you do if you want to talk about your schedule?
Maybe you're planning on coffee badging.
Yeah. What are some ways you can share your schedule or what you're going to be doing?
Lindsay, what's the first one? All right.
Here's the first one, guys. I'm going to head in for a few hours today.
I love this head in, by the way. Yeah. Head in.
We've talked about this before on All Ears English, probably.
Yeah. Or you could say, I'll be in on blank for a bit.
I'll leave after lunch so I can avoid the commute.
Right. So so I could say I'll be in on Tuesday for a bit, but I'll leave after lunch so I can avoid the commute.
Yeah. Or I go in three days a week, but just for a few hours.
Then I go home and after the kids are asleep, I finish my work.
Yes. Of course, that's a very specific expression.
You don't need to say that exact expression if it's not true for you.
But yeah. Yeah. Oh, sorry, Michelle. Go ahead. you go well i was going to say i think go in is the key phrase here i go exactly super common for everyone that's talking about going into the office i go in three days a week love it right or you know on the second one i'll be in so sharing what you will be doing yeah we got head in be in and go in i mean they're simple phrases but they're really common for native speakers right now in this moment that we're in right exactly yeah exactly what's the takeaway today oh wow well i just thought that this was so interesting i like to do episodes about new concepts in the office that you know that probably we both know people who are doing this yeah um but we didn't have a word for it and now somebody's chosen a word for it so it's interesting to hear about this new phenomenon um and you know we talk we do talk about the global health crisis a lot and the impact on work life's balance so this is just another example i mean the pandemic changed everything michelle right but we don't really know what it truly changed until we go a little further down the line so check back in on this in a couple of years and we'll we'll listen back to this episode and we'll think you know what really changed right that's that's the interesting thing we're seeing history in real time here Love it.
What's going to happen? All right, Lindsay.
Well, this was fun. And guys, if you are listening to this and you are currently coffee badging, let us know.
All right, good stuff. All right, Michelle, you have a good day.
I'll talk to you soon. You too. Bye, Lindsay.
Bye. Thank you for listening to Business English, a podcast just for you, the high achieving global professional.
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