This is the Business English Podcast, Episode 183.
How to go deeper with your explanations in Business English.
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Hey there, Michelle. It's shaken. Hey, Lindsay.
Not too much. How are you? I'm feeling great.
Oh my gosh. We are in the end of November here.
So I should be coming back from Portugal pretty soon.
I should be in Portugal now. So really excited about that trip.
Yeah. I can't wait to hear having a great time.
Can't wait to share with our audience when we get back.
Yes, we'll talk about it next year on the show, I'm sure, for sure.
Yes, yes, yes, yes. Lindy, do you feel comfortable rewording something when you have to explain it, like just putting something into other words?
Yeah, I think this is kind of like something I'm pretty good at.
I have a knack for it. I also especially like doing this in other languages because it becomes a nice vocabulary and grammar challenge, which I think helps me a little.
Learn the language more if I'm forced to say it in a different way.
So I love that activity, actually. Such a nerd.
Yes. Actually, I just recently was working with a student.
And one of the things it was a private student through the school where I teach and he is a Ph.D. student.
And one of the things I had him do was make a list of the most common words he uses in his in his classes.
Yeah. And we worked on pronunciation of these words because that's important.
But I also had him explain the words to me using their words.
Special using other words and because I always find I even remember with my grad school, I remember I still remember where I was.
I don't know why. I just remember I was in Union Square with Dan and I had learned some concept and I was working through it and I was explaining it to him and.
And it helped me. You always learn something better when you teach it to someone else.
That's true. They say that. And I think it's 100% true, right?
Yeah. So turning back around. So we learn something in a new language and then we turn back around and we try to teach that or explain that.
That's the way to solidify our learning.
And this is especially also good for business, right?
Because in business, you have to explain something in another way.
Maybe somebody doesn't understand something in one way.
You weren't clear enough, whatever it is.
So we're going to talk about that today because we have a listener question from Oleg that I'm excited to get into.
So, Lindsay, would you like to read the question?
Yes. All right. So Oleg, we love our listeners.
Thank you for writing this question in. Thank you.
He says, Hey guys, hello guys. I have a question for you about the phrases that is, and in other words, I haven't found such a theme in the search bar.
I think he means the search bar of our website or maybe our site.
Could you figure them out a little bit? Thank you, Oleg.
I love the question. So could you address it, he's asking, right?
Yeah. Yeah. So that's what we're going to be talking about today.
This is a great question. Guys, before we talk about that, well, Lindsay was saying that she's going to Portugal.
If you don't want to miss those episodes...
Definitely hit follow on the podcast, the Business English podcast, because if we're going to be talking about that stuff, also hit follow on All Ears English, our other podcast, because we'll be talking a lot about Lindsay's trip.
You don't want to miss those episodes. Make it easy on yourself.
Let the episodes come to you. Yeah, we're debating whether to rent a car or whether to take the trains.
And I know the train system is great in Europe, but there are small towns that we want to visit.
And I'm the only one in the family that drives stick shift.
And I think all the cars are stick shift in Europe.
From what I know, you'll be the driver, the driver scary because I'm not a great driver.
Oh, let's see what happens. Let's see. I'm excited to hear about that.
Um, so yeah, so guys, this is a great question.
Um, it can be used in everyday life, but I wanted to snatch this one for business English because I think it's frequently used in business.
Um, but if you want to listen to another, you know, uh, episode that can talk about understanding something, um, listen to episode 172 of the business English podcast is, are you up to speed how to tell someone you understood in an email?
Love that one. Super important. We do a lot of emailing in the business world.
So let's go check out that episode. So give us some more details here, Michelle.
Which are we going to attack today? Is it in other words or that is or both?
Or what are we going to do? We're going to attack them.
Okay. So in other words, and that is, these are about simplifying, rewording, making something more clear.
So Lindsay, could you read an example for us?
Yeah. So we want a 70% retention rate. In other words, we have to figure out how to get people to stay on, meaning stay enrolled in our program, something like that.
Right, Michelle? So this is really... You're... you are giving deeper meaning to what the first part of what you said yes like we won a 70 retention rate and now i'm giving you some more information as to why basically so it's not necessarily simplifying here but it's just kind of giving more giving a little bit more you're explaining right you're explaining what that means in other words another way to say it is what we're doing here right Yeah, right, right.
So and now let's do that is. So the meeting will be in the office, in the break room, that is.
So this is a little different. This is different.
You're being specific. Yeah. You're making it a little bit more specific.
So these things, these two things do mean they can mean something slightly different.
Right. And it's interesting that, you know, that is most of the time comes at the end here after this comma in the break room, that is.
Mm hmm. Right. Right. That's true. Although I think sometimes people might say that is to say.
So we're going to go over this in a second.
But to me, yeah, like I was saying, in other words, to me is more about simplifying or explaining while that is might be a little bit more about specifying.
But but they can be used with similar meanings.
What do you think? Yes. We're in the same ballpark with the meaning here, but the usage might be slightly different.
So we're going to get into a lot of examples here.
Yes, yes. So yeah, I think that is to say is a very good one.
And that one could go... I mean, either one of them could go anywhere in the...
Well, I feel like that is more for the end and this one could go anywhere.
So Lindsay, could you just read the example?
Here's the example. The boss really isn't happy with these results.
That is to say, we really need to come up with some other plans.
I like this one. It sounds kind of formal and you're specifying, you're being clear, you're saying what this actually means.
Because it's not enough just to say the boss isn't happy.
If you're the manager and you know the boss isn't happy, what do you say to your employees, to your team?
We have to do something. Okay. Right. So we're really kind of narrowing down what we're talking about here.
Yeah. So here's another one. I don't have any dinners scheduled until next month.
That is to say I'm free tonight. Right. Or I could have said in other words.
Right. Exactly. You could say either one.
Yeah. So sometimes they are interchangeable.
Right. And you need to know when they are.
So we'll get into that here right now. Excludes clearance.
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Exclusions apply. See details online. Okay, Michelle.
So how do these all sound to you, Michelle?
Yeah. Yeah, well, to me, I feel like I would, I'm more inclined to say, in other words, that just feels a little bit more natural to me, but I think they all sound a little bit, a little bit on the formal side.
I agree. But the main, yeah, the main, I mean, well, is there one that you feel most likely, like you're most likely to use?
Yeah, in other words, I would be more likely to use, because I tend to lean in the casual direction more, of speaking in general.
So that is to say, or that is, is great.
It just feels a little more professional, more formal, maybe a little more removed from who you're speaking with, which sometimes we need that.
Sometimes that is useful. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. So guys, as you can see, this is, it's a little bit tricky.
Like the differences sometimes they match, like Lindsay said, they're all in the same ballpark, but to me, the main differences are in other words is more about clarifying. okay um okay that but that is sounds more like clarifying but more so just being specific yeah like the break um the break room and then well that that example about the break room i don't remember exactly what we said right right oh it's going to be in the office that it the break room that is so like you wouldn't say in other words the break room yeah you're being specific so you've started broad and then you've nailed down exactly where we're going to meet Thank you.
So I like that. That's just being clear.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I think in general, the idea is, I mean, first of all, there are other ways to use these, but these to me sound the most natural.
But it's important to be specific and clear in business.
So these help you with that. You can use them in a meeting, in a presentation, maybe when you're scheduling something.
But I think in other words is... I think, in other words, has to be used more specifically just for clarifying or explaining something in a different way, while that is to say those ones can kind of go between the lines a little.
What do you think? yeah let's show our listeners a role play and maybe we'll be a little bit more clear through this role play yeah so here michelle we are co-workers we're talking over a meeting meaning talking over like talking about a meeting that we're planning together is that what you mean there with talking over okay yes good one okay here we go yes here we go okay so i think we should start off with an icebreaker Okay.
In other words, our team gets a little sleepy after lunch.
We need a way to pep them up. That's true.
We could play a game or a song, a professional one that is.
It doesn't have to be professional. People like to relax a bit.
That is to say, they don't always want to feel like they're working. that's true oh yeah feels fancy right what we're saying here that is that is yeah that is to say um I would I feel like I would tend to use that is to say maybe elevating that for a presentation or or um when I'm sharing something in a meeting I would want to use that is to say we've seen our numbers increase this year things like that I just want to elevate myself a tiny tiny bit Teeny tiny bit.
Yeah, I agree with you. I think it does kind of sound a little buttoned up as you like to say.
Buttoned up, yeah. Buttoned up. So what did we use?
So we used in other words here. So I said, in other words, our team gets a little sleepy after lunch.
Now, could you have said that is our team gets a little sleepy after lunch?
No, because here, let me give the context a little more.
So what I said was, I think we should start off with an icebreaker.
You said, okay, dot, dot, dot. And so you're kind of wondering what I mean and why.
Is that right? Right. Yeah. So like the okay kind of shows that I'm like, kind of like really you know why you're saying why why and then i'm saying the reason is our team gets a little sleepy so in this case in other words means the reason is the explanation is yeah here's the explanation yeah right we talked about it it's explaining something yeah making something more clear you're you know you're saying icebreaker and maybe i'm thinking what's wrong with her?
No, I'm just like, maybe I was thinking, I don't really get it, or we don't really do that.
And so you're going deeper into it, which is important.
Right. And then we contrast that against that is, you said, that's true.
We could play a game or a song, a professional one, that is.
So specifically, not any game, it would be a professional game.
Right. I don't know what a professional game.
I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it sounds like I'm trying to be like, oh, I'm all about work and I'm trying to make it, you know, I maybe I'm a little hesitant to bring up a game or a song.
So I'm kind of backtracking and like, oh, yeah, professional one.
That is. But then you say, no, it doesn't have to be.
This is like Gen Z talking to a baby boomer or something.
Yeah. Yeah. love it yeah yeah um then what's the next one so you said people like to relax a bit that is to say they don't always want to feel like they are working so do you think you could have used in other words here yes i do that's why i do too it's a little bit not super clear cut here today um yes we could say in other words meaning another way to say that literally in other words In that case, that would be a literal translation of that.
We're using that literally. In other words, they don't always want to feel like they're working.
Right, right, right. Exactly. So it is interesting how sometimes it works out and sometimes it can be a little confusing.
But guys, we did give you the main ideas today.
Yeah. In other words is putting something into different words, being more, uh, explaining the situation more.
Right. And that is, yeah, go ahead. Yeah.
Go ahead. No, go ahead. Sorry, Michelle.
Go ahead. Oh, no. I was going to say that is, is more about being specific.
Um, and similar to that is to say, however, sometimes, uh, they can overlap, but The main thing I would say is, in other words, I believe is more common.
If you're in doubt about which one to use for explaining, just use in other words and save the other ones for being, save that is especially for being more specific.
So if you want, we want you to walk away with, you know, the other things about overlapping and some nuance.
Listen, see what you hear. But in other words, if we're contrasting these two and other words explaining that is specific.
Yeah, so that's our recommendation, right?
Use it in other words. It's more reliable for you.
It'll work in social situations, professional situations at work.
And remember that in other words can literally be used, here's another way to say it.
Or it could be used to say, here's what I'm trying to say.
Like, here's the next idea. Like the example, we should have an icebreaker.
Okay. I mean, our team gets a little sleepy.
The reason I'm saying that. So it can be used kind of broadly. when it comes to this phrase in other words but i guess that is kind of a recommendation to lean towards in other words and then observe the use of that is and that is to say and then gradually implement that in you don't need to throw them all into your language all at once right michelle no no exactly so we've given you some of the basics for today some different ways to know the difference And then, you know, an assignment to keep observing and getting comfortable before you use it.
But I would say the easiest way to start, try using in other words.
All right. Good stuff. And your next action, guys, hit the follow button on this podcast, Business English, because we publish three days a week and you don't want to miss a single episode.
We are giving you advice to immediately implement at work because our philosophy is you're human and When you're at work, you don't become a robot as soon as you walk through the doors.
So we show you how to connect and how to build those relationships that are going to move your career forward and make you happy for those eight hours a day that you're working.
We spend a lot of time working, Michelle, don't we?
Yeah. we do yeah so anyway guys in other words in other words it's important to yeah right exactly anyway guys uh thank you so much to oleg for this question this was a really good specific one it gave us a lot to think about a lot to talk about and guys i hope you enjoyed this episode so we will see you next time all right michelle talk to you very soon have a good one bye bye bye Thank you for listening to Business English, a podcast just for you, the high achieving global professional.
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