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This episode is brought to you by 20th Century Studios The Amateur.
Charlie Heller is the CIA's most brilliant computer analyst, whose life is turned upside down when his wife is murdered in a terrorist attack.
Wrought with grief, Charlie decides her killers must pay.
Without any field experience, Charlie must trek the globe and use his biggest weapon, his intelligence, to enact his revenge, because the most unexpected threat is an amateur.
Starring Academy Award winner Rami Malek and Academy Award nominee Laurence Fishburne, The Amateur, rated PG -13, only in theaters and IMAX, April 11th.
Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of I Heart Radio.
Hey and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's Chuck, and this is part two of our two -parter on the assassination of Martin Luther King Jr." That's right where we left off with part one was the funeral of Martin Luther King Jr. and we're gonna pick up now with the investigation in the manhunt.
And while we're talking about that, we might as well go ahead and say it's still perhaps the largest manhunt in FBI history depending on who you ask.
Cost a couple of million bucks in those dollars.
3 ,500 investigators.
and it was all just a bit awkward because as we all know, or maybe some people don't know this, but the FBI had been tracking Martin Luther King Jr. since 1956, so for 12 years under a program called Racial Matters, Racial Matters.
And then I don't think they meant like matters, like race matters.
No, I think they meant the other way, like the matters of race.
Right. And then, in 1963, they started tapping his phones under the Communist Infiltration Program.
And J. Edgar Hoover was still around at the time, because it seems like he was there for 300 years.
And he didn't like Martin Luther King, Jr. He called him the most notorious liar in the country publicly at a press conference, because King had been criticizing the FBI because they weren't protecting the civil rights of Black Americans, and so Hoover didn't like the guy, Yet he was the guy kind of at the top of this huge investigation.
I read Martin Luther King's cool response to J.
Edgar Hoover calling him the most notorious liar.
Get bent? No? No, he said that J.
Edgar Hoover must be under tremendous pressure to have said such a thing.
Like he was sympathetic.
Jeez, talk about the high road, man.
Yeah, for sure. All right, so the FBI gets ahold of that .30 -06 rifle that was determined to be the murder weapon, they couldn't actually conclusively link that bullet to the gun because the shell had been fragmented, but it was the same caliber and everybody was like, come on, it's the gun.
Can we all just agree to that?
How many rifles do you guys have just laying around in Memphis that day?
Get dumped minutes after by a guy who sped away in a Mustang.
Right, hundreds of just a hundred feet or so away from the murder scene.
So, yeah, they couldn't conclusively link that to the gun, but they were able to trace the serial number and they traced it back to a supporting goods store in Birmingham, Alabama called Aero Marine Supply and they confirmed that it had been purchased just a few days before MLK was assassinated.
Yeah, along with a scope and a gentleman who said that he was going hunting on a hunting trip with his brother.
Okay, because yeah, you have to be like, that's believable right, when you're buying a gun you gotta have a cover story.
Yeah, and under an alias, under the name Harvey Lohmeyer.
Right, so two weeks after the killing they figured out that the prints on the gun matched those of a guy named James Earl Ray, and at the time James Earl Ray had been an escaped from a state prison in Missouri for basically a year.
He'd been on the run.
So now we had a suspect and we had photos and they started circulating it around to people who had putatively interacted with James Earl Ray, including the guy at the AeroMarines Supply Store who sold him the gun.
Yeah, so he was like, that's the guy.
There were witnesses we mentioned earlier in part one at the Bessey Brewer boarding house.
They also looked at pictures and they were like, yeah that's the guy we saw running away.
And they went to the boarding house clerk and they said, yeah, this guy signed in, that's him for sure, under the name John Willard. So he had multiple aliases and that portable radio that they found in the bundle had a scratched out ID number and they eventually figured out that that was his prison radio.
It had his inmate number on it.
So he escaped prison and was like, I'm taking my radio.
Yeah, it seems pretty conclusive that James Earl Ray would have been the shooter.
So they issued an indictment for his arrest for the murder of Martin Luther King Jr. on May 7th, a couple of months after, or no, a month after MLK was murdered, and an international manhunt began.
I know the FBI was definitely concentrating on the United States, but they didn't rule out the possibility that he had started to go abroad.
And so they issued it far and wide, a wanted poster with his data and his photos on it.
So the FBI started tracking his movements.
He's got all these aliases.
In that year that he was on the lam after the shooting, he was into politics for a little while, supporting Alabama Governor George Wallace, his presidential campaign.
He was in LA for a little while.
He took dance lessons.
He went to bartending school.
He lived in Mexico for like a month or so, trying to become a pornography director under the name Eric Salvo Galt.
That didn't work out so he left Mexico, came back to the States, and apparently in the month or so before the assassination, he had been stalking King and had followed him from Atlanta to Memphis.
Yeah, so it seemed like the month before he murdered Martin Luther King, Jr., he suddenly got that idea in his head, because none of his movements suggested that he had even focused on Martin Luther King at all up to that point.
After the assassination, James Earl Ray fled to Toronto.
It's eventually where he landed first. I think you mean Toronto.
Sorry, I'm sorry, Toronto.
I know that, too. I know.
Thanks, Chuck. So, at the time, apparently, if you were an American criminal, in Canada, they were very, very trusting at the time.
They basically said, if you swear that you're a Canadian citizen, you give us your name, we'll send you a passport.
And that's what crooks would do.
They would go to Canada when they were on the run.
They would look up old newspapers at, like, the library and find birth announcements from about the same time that they were born, finding people who were their age.
And they would get their name.
They would get their mother's maiden name sometimes.
And apparently, you didn't even need that.
You just fill out this form, say your name, say, yes, I swear, I'm a Canadian citizen, and mail off for a passport, which would be mailed back to you, toot -suite.
And now you had a fraudulent but official and legitimate passport that you could use to travel the world with Under a new alias.
Yeah, and this time his alias was Because you know it was a real dude in fact the guy was a cop pretty ironic, but his name was Raymond George I guess Sneyd s n e y d.
I heard Sneyd from somebody once no No, if that was definitive, okay?
Well, it's good that we spelled it out because that'll come into play in a minute here mm -hmm, but from Toronto.
He went to London He was actually in London a couple of times he passed through London on his way to Lisbon, after that first flight from Canada.
And he was going to Lisbon, because he was hoping to go to Africa before the murder.
And then afterward, his long term plan was to go to Rhodesia, now Zimbabwe, because in 1965, a 5 % white minority there had assumed independence from the UK.
and he was like, I'm gonna go to Rhodesia and I'm gonna integrate into this small white minority and become a paid mercenary.
Yeah, so I mean he went to Lisbon hoping to secure passage to Africa, and while he was there he's like, I've got a great idea.
Surely that people are on my trail, the Feds are on my trail now and they might even know my alias, so I need a new alias.
I'm going to go to the Canadian consulate here in Lisbon, and I'm going to tell them that they misspelled my name on my passport.
So, we went there, and he told the Canadian consulate there that his last name actually is spelled with an A, not a D.
And they're like, okay, whatever, here's your new passport with your last name spelled correctly.
And he had a new alias, Ramon George Sneha, instead of Sneyde.
So there was one letter change.
And apparently that satisfied James Earl Ray that he had a new alias now.
Yeah, we'll get to who Ray was a little bit, but the one takeaway from everything that I've read is he was not a very smart person.
Not a criminal mastermind.
He was no brain from Pinky and the Brain.
No, also because he did not throw that first passport away and that would be his undoing.
He, like we said, he could not secure that passage to Africa, so he went back to London to figure out what his next move was.
He called a, this is sort of a weird part of the story.
He called a reporter named Ian Colvin at the Daily Mail's foreign desk.
And I don't know if this guy had written articles about it, mercenaries or something.
I don't know either.
That's the only thing I can figure out because he called this random reporter and said, hey, you got any contacts for these mercenaries?
Colvin was like, no, but I guess if you're looking to get into that kind of thing, check into Brussels because that's where you might have better luck.
It's a very strange little side part of this story for sure.
It really is. So James Earl Ray was like, thank you much and starts booking a flight to Brussels from London and it was in London on his way to Brussels that he finally got nabbed but not because somebody noticed his mugshot or wanted poster and saw that he was him but because he had those two Canadian passports and he had them in the same wallet.
Yeah, two different names.
Yes, and the passport checker noticed that he had two passports and asked him about it.
And I guess a cop was standing nearby and stepped over and was like, hey, why don't you join us in the back room?
We've got some questions for you.
And that was it for Ramon George Sneyde Snaya.
He was quickly identified as James Earl Ray.
He had a 38 -caliber pistol tucked in the back of his pants going to board a plane.
You could do that back then cause they didn't have metal detectors.
Yeah, as long as you didn't shoot it off because you were excited during takeoff in the plane, then they didn't really care.
So he was confirmed as James L.
Ray, he was taken into custody, and on July 19th was flown back to the US to stand trial, and that seems like a great place for our first break.
This episode is brought to you by 20th Century Studios, The Amateur.
Charlie Heller is the CIA's most brilliant computer analyst, whose life is turned upside down when his wife is They are murdered in a terrorist attack.
Rot with grief, Charlie decides her killers must pay.
Without any field experience, Charlie must trek the globe and use his biggest weapon, his intelligence, to enact his revenge.
Because the most unexpected threat is an amateur.
Starring Academy Award winner, Rami Malek, and Academy Award nominee, Lawrence Fishburne.
The Amateur, rated PG -13, only in theaters and IMAX April 11th.
This is the soundtrack of the millions undiagnosed with moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea or OSA in adults with obesity.
It's a chronic condition where the airway partially or fully collapses during sleep which may cause breathing interruptions and oxygen deprivation without your knowing.
Don't sleep on the symptoms. Talk to your doctor about OSA and learn more at DontSleepOnOSA .com.
This information is provided by Lilly USA LLC.
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Okay, so James Earl Ray's been taken into custody and he's flown back to the United States on July 19th to stand trial and the whole world is watching.
They want to know why the man who assassinated Martin Luther King Jr. did that — why he murdered MLK, what was the point, what was the reason?
They also wanted to know if he had been working with other people because from the outset, people were, the public was just openly skeptical that there was some conspiracy that had resulted in MLK's murder, and the world got none of that because James Earl Ray pled guilty instead of going to trial, and there was a paper reporting on the case who was at this hearing where he pled guilty and said that it brought a shockingly swift ending to the case.
And everybody was like, what just happened?
And that was essentially that.
There was no trial ever and there were no facts presented.
So it was just like, yep, I did it, send me to jail.
Yeah, his attorney at the time, Percy Foreman said, well you know, if you go to a jury trial, you're probably gonna get a death sentence because of the murder and its impact on the country basically, like you're not going to avoid the electric chair.
So if you plead guilty, you can get the maximum life sentence, which is 99 years in prison in Tennessee.
And he said that's probably the right route to take.
So Ray took it. It was a two -hour affair in court.
No one got the satisfaction of hearing any of the evidence.
It also meant he wouldn't be eligible for parole for 30 years, whereas if he had gotten a life sentence and not the 99, he could have gotten out in 12 and a half.
But just three days after he pleaded guilty, he recanted and tried for the rest of his life to get a new trial, tried to escape.
He did escape. In fact, if you listen to our Barkley Marathon episode, He escaped successfully for three days in 1977 and was picked up in Brushy Mountain where that race takes place, but he would eventually die in prison in 1998 at the age of 70, which would also have been the year he was first eligible for parole.
Yes. And you said earlier that we were going to talk a little bit about James Earl Ray and his criminal career.
That's right. So, he was born in Illinois but mostly grew up in Missouri, and he was the oldest of 9 kids.
And his family was impoverished.
His father was a convict himself, who didn't work very often.
His mother was, as James Earl Ray put it, a woman of very limited intelligence, barely able to communicate.
And she also drank very heavily.
And there was a report card from grade school that said his attitude toward regulations was that he violates all of them.
This was him as a kid and he didn't improve very much as an adult.
He dropped out of high school at 16, worked for a while, and then he joined the Army.
Yeah, he joined the Army.
Yeah, he dropped out of high school at 16.
King was in college at 15.
So just contrast the two situations.
In 46, he joined the Army.
After being laid off from his civilian job in the Army, he was charged with drunkenness, with breaking arrest. He served three months in the Army clink, hard labor for that.
He was discharged less than honorably for, quote, ineptness and lack of adaptability to military service in 1948, so just a couple of years in the Army.
And then was a drifter and a petty criminal who was in and out of jail over and over.
Yeah, and he was serving a 20 -year sentence for robbery in Missouri.
He started it in 1960 when he broke out in 1967 and began that year on the lam that culminated in the assassination of MLK.
And, you know, it was really a 20 year prison sentence for everything because it was a pretty small like robbery at Kroger that wouldn't have gotten a 20 year, but he had other armed robbery convictions.
He had mail fraud convictions and escape attempts.
So it was like, we're just gonna try and put you away for a while.
And if you're curious how he escaped, he hid in a bread delivery truck that was leaving the prison.
I heard that to you.
Yeah. You would have found me eating loaves of bread too.
With your little portable radio, prison radio.
Sorry. Just snapping my fingers with a mouthful of bread.
So his criminal history, just because you're a lifetime criminal doesn't mean you're good at it.
And James Earl Ray is an excellent example of that.
Time Magazine described him back in 1977 as a bungling petty gunman and burglar whose life of crime has mostly been one fizzle after another and they weren't lying because some of his greatest hits that they went onto site was that at one crime scene, he dropped identification, he dropped his ID.
One hold up in a neighborhood, But he got lost as he was making his getaway, ended up driving back into the neighborhood where he just robbed somebody and was caught by the police who'd arrived on the scene by then.
Yeah, who were apparently surprised.
I imagine they were like, oh wait a minute, is that him coming back?
Yeah, get a load of this guy.
Another time he came back to re -rob a place he had already robbed, reentered the window to get more stuff.
That is a no -no, that is crime 101.
Yeah, like get out of there.
I'm not a criminal but I would get out of there.
So even when he was in London too, when he was on the run after assassinating MLK, he carried out not one but two bungled robberies.
It's crazy. One was a bank and he managed to only get a hundred pounds from a bank.
Yeah. The other was a jewelry store where he got nothing because the owner knocked the gun out of his hand and pressed the alarm, so James Earl Ray ran away.
And these are Londoners, they're not used to knocking guns out of hands and this guy still managed to do it.
That's right. You know?
Yeah, he just was not a very good criminal, even though he tried it over and over again, and he was successful.
I mean, like he did successfully rob people and break into places and all that.
But if you put it all together, he didn't have like a violent criminal rap sheet, he was just kind of this petty criminal, that's how he supported himself in life as a criminal who went from that to murdering one of the most important Americans in history in one single action seemingly overnight.
And a lot of people say that just doesn't add up.
Yeah. And you know, we don't lend our show and ourselves to conspiracy.
We're not conspiracy -minded generally.
No. But you don't have to be to look at this and say, he probably didn't act alone, it just doesn't add up like you said.
So there have been congressional committees over the years, they have been family members of Martin Luther King Jr. that said, yeah, this was part of a conspiracy.
There's never been any solid agreement on what kind of conspiracy and who else was behind it.
And we're not gonna get into the nitty -gritty There's a lot of discounted stuff and stuff that rabbit holes shouldn't even go down.
So we're not gonna get into those, but we are gonna talk about the legit idea of a conspiracy and who could have been involved for real.
Yeah, because, again, how did this petty criminal plan an assassination that he successfully carried out and then also panic in a panic, dropped the murder weapon and ran off in a place where it would be found within a minute or two.
Where did he get the funding that he would need to support himself for a year on the lam and then to travel abroad to flee after the assassination?
These are just a few of the questions people have come up with.
And the obvious solution is that he had help in some way, shape, or form.
But another really big question that I think that a lot of people overlook is why.
Like, why did he murder Martin Luther King Jr.?
He wasn't known as a fanatic, he was a racist, and like we said, he supported George Wallace for his segregationist presidential bid, but he wasn't like a fanatic.
And also, like he didn't have any particularly deep emotions one way or another for MLK, he just was his murderer.
And it just does not make a lot of sense.
Yeah, so after he retracted that confession just days after his conviction, he started saying, I was set up, and I was set up by a guy named Raoul.
So supposedly, he had a lot of interactions with this Raoul guy.
But he went from describing him as a Latina with blonde hair to a French Canadian with red hair.
Nobody ever witnessed him with anyone that looked like either one of those people.
A lot of people think there is no Raoul at all.
But he still could have had help, you know, from someone else.
Yeah, so you mentioned congressional committees who that concluded that there was some sort of conspiracy.
One of them was House Select Committee on Assassinations in 1978.
They said that there was a likelihood of conspiracy in the assassination of Dr. King, but they didn't think like Raul was involved or anything like that.
So it was much more pedestrian and mundane, and in my opinion then much more likely, as far as the conspiracy theories go, but they put it on two prominent but shady St. Louisans.
I'm pretty sure that's what you call people from St. Louis.
One was a former stockbroker who became a motel owner.
His name was John R.
Kaufman. The other was a patent lawyer in town named John H.
Sutherland. And both of them were dead by the time the committee hearings were held in 1978.
But they supposedly put a bounty on MLK's head.
And James Earl Ray, whose brother was a tavern owner in St. Louis at the time heard about this bounty and decided that he would go ahead and murder MLK and collect on the bounty.
And I also saw that he probably believed that as a white man, he would never be convicted of murdering a black man in the South and even if he did George Wallace was definitely going to win the 1968 election and George Wallace would pardon him so if you put all that together it really seems like a pretty legitimate explanation for the whole thing.
Yeah as far as Martin Luther King Jr's widow Coretta Scott King she was she always thought the FBI might have had something to do She knew that they had been surveilled and their phones had been tapped.
She thought they were a possible, you know, bad actors.
They even, you know, this is sort of startling, and in fact, it startled the country in the late 90s.
But they came around to believing James Earl Ray, Dexter Scott King, one of his sons, visited James Earl Ray in prison.
They pushed for him to get an appeal.
He apparently asked him point blank, like, did you kill my father?
and James Earl Ray said no, I didn't.
No. And then apparently he also said, but like I say sometimes these questions are difficult to answer.
Sometimes you have to make your own evaluation and maybe come to the conclusion.
I think that could be done today but not 30 years ago.
None of that makes any sense.
No, because it isn't difficult to say you either did or you did not commit murder.
Yeah, but as shocking as this meeting was They got on board and said, I don't think you did this.
I think you were Patsy, I think you were set up.
And a lot of Americans were confused and a lot were offended.
Pulitzer Prize winning biographer of Martin Luther King Jr., David Garrow, said that Dexter King's support of Ray was egregious and embarrassing.
I say we take a break and we come back and kinda stick with the late 90s because they were kind of...
the 90s were a big decade for conspiracy theories and the M .L .K.
assassination. How about that?
Yeah let's do it. This episode is brought to you by 20th Century Studios The Amateur.
Charlie Heller is the CIA's most brilliant computer analyst whose life is turned upside down when his wife is murdered in a terrorist attack wrought with grief.
Charlie decides her killers must pay.
Without any field experience Charlie must trek the globe and use his biggest weapon, his intelligence, to enact his revenge because the most unexpected threat is an amateur.
Starring Academy Award winner Rami Malek and Academy Award nominee Laurence Fishburne.
The I'm Max April 11th.
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So, there's an attorney named William Pepper, who is a very conspiracy theory -minded attorney.
He became James Earl Ray's attorney, eventually.
and he's not someone that a lot of people thought a lot of in his career.
He'd been described as disgraceful by some, the most gullible person I've ever met by someone else.
He was readily unwilling to just malign innocent people to get his theories out there.
And I remember this happening.
I didn't watch it, but on the 25th anniversary of King's murder, so I guess somewhere in the mid -90s, He sold HBO on producing and broadcasting a mock trial TV special of James Earl Ray in which Ray was acquitted by the mock jury.
Yeah. And so that was, whoa, that's crazy, but it's a mock trial on HBO and it's a mock jury.
It doesn't mean anything.
It just basically promoted William Pepper and his theories.
But after that special was aired, And conspiracy theories about the MLK assassination got a real boost because a guy named Lloyd Jowers came forward, he said he was inspired to come forward by the series and come clean, essentially, after all of these years.
And he owned a tavern in Memphis called Jim's Grill, which just happened to be located beneath Bessie Brewer's boarding house, where the fatal shot that killed MLK was fired from.
And Lloyd -Jowers said that he was part of a big giant conspiracy to murder MLK that included the Memphis police, the FBI, the Mafia, himself and some other just tangential players who were all coming together to kill King in order to collect on a bunch of money.
Lloyd Jowers said that just him alone was offered $100 ,000 to basically project to manage the contract killing.
Yeah, I feel like if you're floating a conspiracy about an assassination, if you just throw out like local cops and mafia, then you're probably halfway there.
Yeah, for sure. Yeah.
Oh, definitely, that'll get everybody's attention.
So Martin Luther King Jr's family sued him for wrongful death in civil court.
Again, this is not a criminal trial or anything.
They didn't want money.
They wanted 100 bucks.
They basically wanted to get all these claims heard in court and have it out in public.
And this is sort of shocking as well.
The family was represented by that attorney, William Pepper, who had represented James Earl Ray.
The jury did decide that Jowers and others, including government agencies, had been responsible for King's death, so they actually won that civil trial.
They did. And I read two things.
I read that Dexter King basically said we did this so that, you know, to prove that the investigation needed to be reopened, and then he also said, regardless of whether it gets reopened or not, this is like the period on the sentence for us.
Like this just basically supports everything we've always said.
Right. The Justice Department, the civil rights division, had simultaneously launched an investigation into Lloyd Jowers claims. I guess they seemed legitimate enough.
But also, this investigation entailed claims made by a former FBI agent named Donald Wilson.
And Wilson said that he had been, I guess he had been, one of the people who had searched through the Mustang that James Earl Ray got away in.
And that he had found some papers in this Mustang that had info about the JFK assassination, okay.
I think Donald Wilson is like, how can I get people to listen?
JFK. He also said that the name Raoul was mentioned in it as well in these papers.
And so the Justice Department starts looking into it and they concluded in a report in 2000 that this is all just kind of BS to paraphrase.
Yeah, basically. He was out for a book deal is what they concluded.
Percy Foreman, the original attorney for James Earl Ray, as far as he was concerned, he thought Ray acted alone.
His biographer William Bradford Huey also said, yeah, I think he acted alone and he was trying to just become a bigger criminal and like impress larger criminals that he was a valuable guy to work with.
Right. Yeah. There was an investigative reporter too who investigated James Earl Ray, as investigative reporters do.
His name was George McMillan.
He interviewed a bunch of Ray's fellow prisoners from the Missouri prison that he broke out of in 1967.
And they were like, yeah, he was a huge drug dealer in prison.
Like he was rolling in it.
One of them claimed that he was able to, to smuggle out $6 ,500 from the prison.
And in today's money, that's about $60 ,000.
So that alone, if true, satisfies that really big question about how could this petty criminal support himself for a year on the lam.
60k can go a long way, especially if you're committing other crimes.
But yeah, it sounds like he blew a lot of it on bartending school and dance lessons.
Still, you could live for a year on 60k, no problem.
And he had to buy some of that camera equipment because he tried to be a porn director in Mexico.
That's right. So I guess we're at the point now where we can kind of talk a little bit about, had the sliding doors gone another way and had that march gone forward on April 4th and maybe James Earl Ray doesn't get that shot, what would have happened had King been around?
I guess we'll talk at first about what happened since that did occur was that he was an instant martyr For all practical purposes he was sainted in that moment.
It was just so sudden and it was so violent and the polling, you know, we talked about polling in episode one about how white Americans felt about him.
In 1966, people polled 36 % of all Americans had a favorable opinion of King, 27 % of white America and in 2011, that number had gone to 93 % of white Americans had a favorable view of King and 81 % of all American adults said he had a positive impact on the US.
So that's from 1966 to 2011 but that was also happening at the time.
Like in the days and months before and after there was a stark difference, right?
Yeah, there was an almost immediate change in opinion of him after he died.
It was like the band Cinderella said, you don't know what you got till it's gone.
That's right. There was this just complete happenstance study that had been carried out in February and March of 1968, where they sent 10 ,000 surveys to college and university trustees, I guess to take a pulse on the university and college trustee subculture.
That asked, among other things, how they felt about Martin Luther King, How they felt about his views, how much they aligned with their own views.
And after MLK was assassinated, they went through and they separated the surveys that they'd received before his death and after his death.
And there was a stark difference.
Before he was assassinated, 36 % of the respondents said that they held similar views to King.
After the assassination, that rose to 50%.
This is within a couple of weeks.
Before the assassination, 30%, more than 30 percent, said that King's views were very unlike theirs.
Afterward it dropped down to 19 percent.
So, it was happening in real time and we know that thanks to that poll.
And it's really hard to overstate the effect, the immediate effect, that his assassination had on the conscience of the United States.
I think it really made a lot of probably everyday racist Americans really rethink themselves, you know, that at the time you could dislike Martin Luther King Jr. He was alive.
He was railing against Vietnam and going on about poor people and everything.
But now he's gone, murdered, and just something like that can really shock people into focusing more on themselves and on their viewpoints than otherwise you would.
Yeah, for sure. I mean, one thing that definitely came out of this was Lyndon Johnson kind of used this to get the Fair Housing Act of 1968 passed.
It had failed in 66 and 67.
So it wasn't a bill that looked like it had an immediate future.
So he kind of did the same thing with the Civil Rights Act of 64, right after JFK was assassinated.
So you know, very politically savvy kind of get these things passed through when the nation would have been more on board with that and politicians would have been more on board. maybe wouldn't have been able to get it passed through in 68 and then he had already announced that he wasn't running for reelection before the assassination so given what happened with Nixon and then Reagan coming in, if King had lived, it's doubtful that he would have had the kind of relationship that he had with Johnson, with those two guys.
Yeah, but remember also that he and Johnson had already had a rift because of MLK's more open a vocal stance against Vietnam, and, you know, he would have definitely kept railing against Vietnam, so that rift would have widened even further, and also, General American's opinions of him probably would've declined even further, because remember, after that 1967 Vietnam speech, his popularity, especially among white Americans, just plummeted, in part because he called the US government the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today.
That's a pretty direct shot against the government.
And if you are all about the government and this black civil rights leaders saying stuff like that, you're going to take your angst out on the black civil rights leader who's saying it rather than stopping and questioning whether he's right.
Yeah, for sure. A lot of people point out that like, he would have continued to work for civil rights for black Americans, but also may have started championing the cause of the LGBTQ rights as a community.
Coretta Scott King vocally supported this stuff after his passing.
And Martin Luther King Jr. worked very closely with a gentleman named Bayard Rustin, an openly gay civil rights advocate who could have kept himself in the closet, but very much was out, and so people think that yeah, King probably would have taken up that cause as well later on.
Yeah, we did a episode from 2015 on the March on Washington, we talked about Bayard Rustin a lot.
He's also often compared to Nelson Mandela, had MLK lived.
People say like he might have followed some sort of trajectory similar to Nelson Mandela's, but Mandela became president of South Africa.
Would MLK have ever run for president?
From what I saw, most historians say probably not.
That was never an aspiration of his.
And, in fact, he actually turned down an offer to run on a third party ticket, the people's party ticket, for the 1968 election with a pediatrician, the author of the very famous baby book, Dr. Benjamin Spock, who had turned anti -war activist as his Vice President.
So he probably would not have ever run for president, but he still would have remained a very potent, powerful voice for civil rights for everybody.
but had he not been assassinated, I don't think his legacy would be anything like it is today.
Yeah, how great though would it have been to be able to source a King Spock 68 t -shirt or bumper sticker?
I guess somebody like dummy'd that up or else it got far enough that somebody made buttons cause I saw some image of that on the internet.
Yeah, I don't know if it was made up or not.
You can't tell these days.
You can't. And then this all culminated finally with Martin Luther King, Jr., the National Holiday.
The campaign for that federal holiday began just a few days after he was killed in 1968.
And it would be installed in 1983, it took a little while.
Representative John Conyers, a Democrat from Michigan, re -introduced that legislation every single year with the backing of the Congressional Black Caucus, which he helped found, and it was denied every single year until 15 years later, when President Ronald Reagan signed that bill, making the third Monday in January a federal holiday.
And then it was first observed in 1986 by everybody, very famously, except for Arizona.
They were the last holdout, and I remember this happening very well.
Me too. Mainly because of the great, great song, By the Time I Get to Arizona, by Public Enemy that came out.
So we got that out of it, which was pretty great, but the NFL was like, you know what, you're not getting the Super Bowl in 1993, and then after that they said, all right, we'll get on board. So we can have a Super Bowl.
Whatever it takes, by any means necessary.
Come on, Arizona, get it together.
They did. That was way back in 1993.
Those people, those, those policymakers are all dead and gone by now.
Yeah. No. I lived in Arizona.
I love that place. Oh yeah that's right Yuma.
Right? Yeah. Do you ever take the 310?
Uh. No, no trains. Okay.
Well since I made Chuck laugh, I think that we should end on a high note here and uh, say that it's time for listener mail.
That's right, I'm pointing out a Josh mass error.
Great. I'm so sorry.
Let's do it. Hey guys, always laugh when hearing...
When you quickly correct yourselves before the email start.
I didn't hear that one today though, and I'm sure you're getting more than just this email.
Actually Andrew, we didn't.
You were the only one that caught this.
Oh nice. Way to go Andrew.
This was in the... What would this have been?
GPS I guess. Okay. Oh by the way, I never posted that...
Aha. That uh, what do you call it when things intersect?
The Venn diagram that I sent you that said bingo.
I need to put that on our Instagram.
Yeah, please do. I'll do it.
Hey guys, when Josh was describing the 2D trilateration circles and distance from Denver, he said to draw a circle around the named city with a diameter of distance described.
But that would be a circle half too small.
You need a circle with a radius for that distance or a diameter of twice that radius.
your compass would be set to the width of the distance you are from the city and you draw that circle which would give you a circle around a city where every point on that circle is that described distance from city center point.
That makes sense. And this is from an electrical engineer in Knoxville, Tennessee, Andrew White, who said it makes me happy to listen and learn from y 'all each day.
So I trust you, Andrew, because you're an electrical engineer.
Yeah, Andrew White, the fastest compass in Tennessee.
Thanks a lot, Andrew.
I totally get that.
That was very well explained.
Better than I explained it, for sure.
And if you want to be like Andrew and correct my math, there's not really much sport in it, but you can still do it anyway by sending us an email to stuffpodcasts .iheartradio .com.
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