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Okay, time for Ask The Aimees.
This is when listeners send us their dilemmas.
They may be interpersonal, they may be with their managers, they may be about their own professional development, and we chew them over and share our thoughts.
That's right. And today's questions are around returning from maternity leave, dealing with an unsupportive manager, being taken seriously as a first time manager, plus a couple other things.
Let's start with a question about returning to work after having a baby.
Yeah. Okay. So, I'm going to read this one to you.
All right. This is from a listener who is back at work pretty recently.
And she asks, how can a woman returning from a career break or maternity leave effectively handle comments or advice from senior leaders, such as take it slow, your family is important, or don't pressure yourself, when you express interest in taking on more responsibilities or pursuing growth opportunities?
As a new mother, I find myself second -guessing whether I should aspire for growth or take on challenges, especially after receiving well -meaning advice to just slow down.
How can I balance these external perspectives with my own ambitions?
Well, let's start with stop second -guessing yourself.
No one knows you better than you know yourself, right?
So in the moment you can say, no, I'm pretty sure I want to take this on.
And if the person keeps pressing you, you can say with a smile on your face, if I were returning from paternity leave, would you be saying this to me?
Right. Right? Yeah.
Well, and I'd like even to draw a contrast to say, I know some people like to slow down after they have kids, don't say women.
I know some people like to slow down after they have kids.
That's not where I'm at right now.
So I'd love to talk about my opportunities.
How can I drive this forward?
Right. At some point, you have to move along.
And so changing the subject to topic A, which is I want to take on this responsibility, here's how I'm thinking about it.
No excuses, no I know I'm just back from having a baby, no I know I have a lot of responsibilities.
You don't have to explain that.
You're a professional, right?
Yeah, and I think the other thing, because if we assume the comments are well -meaning, it may be that that person's experience The challenge was that they wanted to slow down.
So you might even ask them questions.
Oh, what was it like for you after you returned having kids?
What were your challenges?
Oh, I think I'm in a different position.
Here's where I am. This is what I'm thinking.
So just acknowledging that they're probably giving you advice from their own perspective, because that's what most of us do, but that it may not be relevant to you.
And she may have to even say, you know what, I'll make the call about the pace at which I want to go, but I have a lot of ambitions.
Let's talk about how you can support me in those.
but do remember it probably comes from a good place, right?
Even if misguided. Even if it's misguided and fantastically annoying.
All right, should we do another one?
Yeah. This one is about being taken seriously as a first time manager so, I'll read you the questions.
I've recently had a big promotion and I've transitioned from an individual contributor to a people manager overnight.
I'm now managing 43 people, good Lord that's a lot of people.
a lot of people. I've had no training, preparation, or guidance from my company.
The team is great with a wonderful culture and vibe, but they're not the most productive.
How do I navigate this new role, be productive, solve problems, and move projects forward without being perceived as an a -hole?
I am a nice person and love people, but need to move projects forward and show that I am a competent manager.
Solve that problem to me.
Well, that's an easy one.
Number one, listen to our series, How to Manage.
You'll get some great advice from that.
Number two, I really appreciate what she's trying to do, being taken seriously, prove that she can get this team in top shape, that they can be productive.
Before she takes action though, I would encourage her to do some thinking around what does productivity mean in this case?
How do you know they're not productive?
What's the data? Where are you getting that information?
And how is the team comprised?
I mean she's got 43 people.
I think she's got to understand a little bit about what's on their minds, what's holding them back.
There's difference between we're not productive because the culture here is one of slightly slacking off and not putting 100 % in or it could be that there's another team who's standing in their way so they're not able to move things forward. Right, so diagnose the problem.
Exactly. And bring other people in.
Yes. People you trust and probably members of that team because you want to get their perspective.
Yeah. I would choose a few well positioned, influential people on the team to start actually having the conversation with.
To understand what's going on, what's holding back, what are the challenges, how do you see this.
I would also really be very in close touch with her boss because it sounds like she's trying to prove something that she can be a good manager to this ginormous team that she can turn things around.
But what are the expectations from the senior leaders here?
Right. But also when you're talking to your manager, I wouldn't say what are your expectations.
I would set expectations because your manager is going to say, I need you to do this yesterday.
And what you, what you can do in your new role, because by the way you get a grace period in your new role is say I'm gonna need X number of weeks just to understand what's going on here.
And I'm gonna need a little time after that to restructure my team, not can I restructure my team?
I need to restructure my team, I can not have 43 direct reports, right?
Oh my God, review time.
Review time with 43 direct reports is, you know, at least 35 too many.
I just wanna call out an article that I think is one of the most helpful for people who are moving into this new role.
And it's a classic called Becoming the Boss by Linda Hill.
Such a good article.
Such a good article.
And it really lays out the difference between solo contributor roles and managerial roles.
But it also lays out, I found this helpful when I first moved into a managerial role, the kinds of misunderstandings that we all take into our new role.
And it'll save you an awful lot of pain.
So I cannot recommend this highly enough.
What I like about it is Linda also normalizes the fact that this is hard to do.
The learning curve is going to be so huge.
So I think thinking about who does she need people on the team, her direct manager, is there a mentor in the organization who's been managing for awhile, right?
Who can she get to be supporting her through this transition?
And then one more thing is that it is no secret to her team that she has been recast in a role that is very new to her.
So I would say she should be kind of transparent about this that I'm learning and I'm gonna need help from all of you.
Don't turn yourself into a reaction bot, right?
You have to be true to yourself, you have to figure out who you are as a manager and as a leader, and you don't have to bend to everyone's feedback.
But you have to sift through all the feedback and pick out the stuff that's going to help you do your job better.
One of the things you wanna be transparent about is the goal, right?
And then I would, with transparency, pull the people who are gonna have to achieve whatever the goal is together into the conversation about how and make them co -owners of the plan, right?
Right, yep, absolutely.
So she's not the only one.
I mean, that question around, I love relationships, but I'm afraid of being perceived as a jerk.
One of the misconceptions about management is that you can either be compassionate or you can hold people accountable and you can do both at the same time.
Right, you can. And just think about how you feel, dear listener, when your manager is indecisive.
Being decisive is not the same as being a jerk.
People want direction and you are there to provide direction and you would not be doing your job if you weren't providing direction, but when you're providing direction, it's important to explain the why behind the what so that people understand how you made decisions and so that they can make decisions themselves in alignment with the goal.
My empathy goes out to this woman.
For sure. Oh my gosh.
I would really start with those 43 direct reports.
That's impossible. Yeah, and at least close contact with her manager, understanding what's expected of her, but also making some strong relationships on that team right away so that she can navigate it.
But also what an opportunity.
I mean, she must have been psyched when she got that role.
This is such a vote of confidence and I hope that she doesn't lose sight of that.
Yeah, agreed. All right, let's take the next one.
So this person writes to us and says, I'm currently four years into my project management role and starting to look for what's next.
I feel like my manager is not supportive enough.
The topic of career progress only comes up when I initiate it.
Last year, in my end -of -year review, there was nothing I needed to improve or work on, but nothing new on the horizon either.
I once brought up the topic of possibly doing an MBA, and her first response was, but I didn't do that either.
When I asked to do more commercial projects or work with different teams to expand my horizon, she just gives me names of people to have coffee with.
It feels like the bare minimum.
I think she might be secretly happy where I am because of my current role, I support her a lot and she doesn't want to lose me.
I've heard from other colleagues that have confirmed this.
How can I have an open conversation with her about this and push through in those moments where she deflects?
She'll say things like, our company is not quick with promotions or there are a few roles out there, just be patient.
I value my relationship with her, but I'm starting to feel like she is keeping me down.
So first question, why do you value your relationship with her?
That's a good question.
Yeah. There is no question that she doesn't want you to leave your role because that creates a big problem for her.
Yes. I agree. Well, 90 % of me agrees.
That's absolutely the case, but there's 10 % of me that reads this and thinks, is this a situation where the boss has been a really bad at communicating that there just aren't other opportunities?
It might be that, but there is a way for our listener to ask and be more direct.
So a couple of thoughts.
One is to say, listen, I'm really feeling restless and I'm ready to move into a more challenging role.
Doing that makes it clear that you're not gonna stay in this job forever and it's very important to put down that marker, right?
And what you wanna do is give this manager who let's assume wants what's right, wants what's best for you, give her a chance to do the right thing.
But don't give her too much of a chance because this is your one precious life.
And you don't need to wait for her to give you permission to find your next role.
Being indirect isn't gonna get you where you wanna go.
What you wanna do is say, I've thought of ways to build my skills, but what I really want is to get to the next job.
And I think this may be the next job.
What do you think about that, right?
Give her something real to respond to.
Yeah, and I also think find someone who has succeeded in the way or at least a similar way to what you're hoping to succeed at in this organization.
Is there someone who has moved up several levels?
Is there someone who tried out something new?
Can you go to that person and say, what did you do?
Right? How did you get there?
Who helped you? What were the conversations with HR like?
All of which is helping you then advocate for yourself, but then possibly then giving feedback to your manager and saying, Oh, so -and -so down the hall was able to do it by this, their manager did this, can you do that more concrete ideas about what actually works in this system, in this context.
Exactly, and I would also pull the camera back a bit.
Your project manager, that's the hottest field out there.
Business is now being organized around projects.
There are organizations that serve and train project managers.
You know all of them, I bet.
You can meet people who may have a line to your next job.
It doesn't have to be at this company.
You can grow in a number of ways but remember that you have the power to choose where you wanna go.
So your manager is not the only root out of this job to your next job.
And project managers are so valuable anywhere at the moment but also within the organizations.
As a project manager, there are probably other senior leaders that you're talking to.
Can you cultivate them as a mentor?
Can you get advice about what they would like to see you do next about whether they did an MBA?
And at no point in this whole process do you need to throw your current manager under the bus.
But there's no reason that she should be the only person who's looking out for you.
You have to do it and you can enlist others in helping you do that.
All right. Let's take the next question.
Okay. Being relatively new to the company about two years, any advice on how to build a good relationship with my supervisor who's based in another location and has a favorite direct report.
My supervisor's favorite direct report is my peer who's been working with him for nine years.
She's very competent, covers a big chunk of the portfolio, and works in the same location as him.
They're very close and he spends time with her for career development, provides guidance, and takes her to meetings with key stakeholders.
To try to mitigate our lack of proximity I give him regular updates on what I'm doing and try to get myself involved in high visibility projects.
He's also received good feedback about me from other people I work with.
But I'm also finding it hard to trust him because when I share things with him in confidence, he then shares that information with my peer.
That makes me reluctant to share anything with him beyond surface level status updates.
Additionally, the peer is very territorial, passive -aggressive and has a strong influence on the supervisor, so I'm reluctant to get close to her.
I am constantly wondering if I should stay at this company or find another opportunity." All right, Amy, over to you.
Yes, just a simple one, then.
So there's a lot going on here.
The thing I really hone in on is her comment about being reluctant to become close to the favorite.
I mean, she just spent a lot of time laying out how important the favorite is, and I can imagine given the favorites behavior, given the position with the boss wanting to sort of not touch that with a nine foot pole.
And yet I feel like that might be the clue to so many questions she has, right?
What does the boss care about?
How do I get close to him?
What do you do that is so valuable to him?
Now, I would of course approach that very cautiously, but I think one, I would say, can you travel to their location?
Even if it's just for a visit, for a series of meetings, anything to just put yourself in front of them, establish a sort of more natural rapport.
She talks about sending updates.
To me, it feels like that she's getting a transactional relationship with this boss and this other person's getting a more genuine, influence -rich relationship with the boss.
And also, you don't have to become friends with this peer, but can you find out a little bit more about what she's doing that the boss values so much?
Yeah, and you can also ask your boss.
Yeah, yeah. I mean, even saying, I know you value Amy so much, are there things that I could do differently that would be more in line with your performance expectations?
Yeah, and I think building the rapport isn't a zero -sum game.
In other words, the favorite isn't going to lose anything by your becoming closer to the boss.
So I would strip away as much as I can, any sense that you're fighting for attention, for approval, or anything.
You have to get it out of your head because that'll drive you nuts.
And even if she's behaving territorially, passive -aggressively, you don't have to respond in kind.
It's possible that this peer is very protective of her relationship with your shared boss, right, because she's getting a lot of advantage from it.
Yeah, and knowing what you control and focusing on that is a great way of at least growing in the job, even if the job isn't going to be the right one for you.
Now, how do you know if it's time for you to look for a new job?
But if you have spent months and months trying to make this work for you, and it's just very clear that you're not making headway, then it may be time for you to go find your next position.
You don't have to be miserable.
You don't have to feel like second best. This job should be an opportunity for you to grow, to demonstrate your competence, to get more and more responsibility.
And if it's not happening, then it's not happening.
I would just set very clear goals around that.
So in the next three months, I want to feel like I have more influence in my boss's decision, or I want to not receive snarky emails from this peer for three weeks in a row.
Anything that feels both achievable but then can also give you a sense of, I tried for this thing, it did not happen, and now it's time to move on.
I just don't like the, I don't want her to feel like this will never work.
I want her to try a few things, set goals.
If those don't happen, then it may be time to move on.
And it's not a failure.
It's not. If you grab the wheel here, then you have succeeded in steering your own career.
Yeah. That's huge. And I love the, it's not a failure because it is so easy to feel like, what am I not doing that this other person is doing?
Why can't I build this relationship with my boss?" It's so easy to take it on as you're doing when sometimes the circumstances are just not right for you to succeed.
I think it's okay to recognize that.
There's one other question in here, which is really about how to build a rapport with someone who's not there.
If we take the favorite out of it, which is obviously complicating things, but how do you build rapport?
This giving updates is clearly not working.
There's actually great research by Pam Heinz at Stanford around what creates a cohesive team when people are dispersed.
So shared context, right?
Do we use the same systems?
Are we using the same language?
Shared identity, do we feel like we're actually in it together?
Informal interaction, that's a really key component.
And then making sure you don't have misaligned incentives or overlapping roles.
So those four things, and I would think about which of those four can you leverage with your boss?
Can you set up a call where it's not just an update, but it's actually a informal call.
Can you say, hey, could we just have a Zoom coffee?
I'd love to hear what's going on in your world.
Try to sort of encourage some of that more informal interaction.
Can you start using we when you're talking, right?
Creating that shared identity, our team, what we care about, what matters to us, what our goal is, what our reputation, I think that can help create some of that shared identity as well.
The favorite does complicate the matters, but I think if the more you focus on building that relationship as strong as possible, these other things that we've talked about trying might be sort of a more fair experiment for you to figure out whether you can actually succeed here.
That's amazingly great advice.
All right. So the next question is from someone who has just entered a pretty male -dominated work environment and wants some advice.
So she writes, I started a new position as a manager with a new company and industry in 2024.
I report to a director and I have two employees who report to me.
Before I joined, the two employees reported to my boss.
I've been struggling to gain the trust and respect from these employees who already had this existing working relationship.
Both employees have made comments to my boss about not trusting liabilities, which has been really hard to hear.
I'll also add that I am the only woman on a staff of all men.
I sometimes can't help but wonder if I'm experiencing bias from them.
I feel so isolated with these thoughts as I can't get my boss to understand." So, the first thing I want to point out is that when women are cast in new roles, particularly in mostly male environments, if they are targeted it's almost always for competence, right?
Don't have the skills, aren't up for the job.
Don't have the technical know -how.
And we know that competence is a very important component of trust, so I think it's all sort of related, right?
Yeah, right. So if we think about the trust triangle, people have used different labels, but we can think about it as authenticity, empathy, and competence, the competence leg is getting challenged, which is affecting those other two pieces as well, which may not even be there.
And I think she's right to wonder about the bias, but I worry that that's not a helpful line of thinking for her.
Right, so what would your advice be?
First, that statement that she feels alone with these thoughts, I think that's gonna eat her up.
So I'm not saying ignore the bias, pretend it's not happening.
I think finding a female mentor inside, outside the organization, anywhere who you can talk this through with, who maybe has been in a similar position, has worked in a male dominated field, I think that getting that validation and feedback might be really helpful to start.
And then I think on the other hand, she then has to think about how does she gain the trust of these two people?
And I would start with her boss.
Yeah, I mean, her boss put her in this position, presumably and wants her, needs her to succeed.
Exactly, so I would go to the boss and say, okay, you gave me this feedback, they don't trust my abilities, what can I do?
What do you know since you manage them?
What do you know about how I can gain their trust?
What do you know about what matters to them?
What would you recommend I do to change their perception of me?
And what are you telling them, and say, how have you reinforced that I was the right person?
so making sure your boss has your back.
And in that conversation with your boss, it isn't like you have to go out and solve this problem, boss, it's I am doing everything I can to lead this team to success.
I need some backup from you because there's clearly some stuff going on and they're having these conversations with you.
And then I would do exactly as you suggested, Amy.
I think having direct conversations with the two people And just saying, you know, clearly we aren't clicking here, right?
And I understand you have some concerns.
So kind of sort of calling them out.
Why don't we discuss those concerns openly?
I think that would be an incredibly hard conversation to initiate, but I think at this point you don't have a lot to lose.
Exactly. And I also think that, and this is a little bit transactional, but I think it could help is that trying to understand these people, these two men as well, and what might be feeding into this perception or this insecurity.
Just getting to know them a little bit better.
And if there is something you can give them that they have wanted, a new resource, access to a system, access to someone else in another part of the organization, if you can be the one who gets that for them, you might earn a quick win that will just at least put you on a slightly higher playing field and you're not gonna erase the bias.
So I think don't double down on that mentally.
Definitely find a venue in which you can talk about that and process that.
But I wouldn't make that the primary thing that you're trying to address, you're really trying to address how do you build a stronger relationship with them that is trusting and allows you to do what you need to do as their manager.
Great advice. And I will add one thing which is that you have to remember that these two people were layered.
They used to report to your boss, now they report to someone who reports to the boss.
That's right. And so, their noses may be out of joint.
Be open to the idea that maybe competence isn't at the heart of this lack of trust at all.
Yeah, it's such a good point.
This is not the nicest way to describe this, but it's a little bit of a tantrum, right?
Like they might feel like they're demoted.
They're like, ah, we don't trust her, but it's like, okay, just let some of that noise come out.
And I think, especially since you're new to the world, maybe let it move on.
Don't dig too deep into those comments and just continue to prove you're the right person for the job, get your bosses backing, continue to talk to them, get to know them, and I think some of that tantrum stuff will sort of settle down.
Before we move on to the next question, I just want to note that we did a whole episode of Women at Work called, When You Work in a Male -dominated Industry, and we did it in 2019.
And there's a whole book that kind of grew out of that that you can find on our webpage.
Yeah, part of our Women at Work Series.
I think that interview definitely would be really helpful.
But then also I think that whole book I think could be really helpful to her as well.
I'd love to know how this works out.
Yes, let us know. So the next question is about managing a very emotional direct report.
Let me read it to you.
I'm a medical director in a veterinary practice.
I have one employee who cannot take feedback without crying, and I don't know how to handle it.
For example, she recently forgot to send a dog with an eye ulcer home with a cone, one of the lampshade things.
I sat her down in between appointments and I asked her what happened.
I tried to keep the conversation quick and lighthearted.
Then she started crying and stuttering.
I tried to address it by saying, it's okay if something like this brings up big emotions, but she told me to ignore it.
But I said, no, Because this is not the first time she's cried like this.
And we need to figure it all out.
So I told her I'd connect her with HR for them to help sort this out.
I sent an email to them and copied her on it.
She then continued to cry hysterically for three hours on the clock.
It was beyond. So what do I do?
Do I email and message her with feedback next time?
Is there a way I can get her to stop crying?
All right, Amy. No, it's the short answer.
Can you get her to stop crying?
I've never had, I mean, I can't even get myself to stop crying half the time.
But I love this question because I think there's just, I think we think about emotions in the workplace as this really big thing.
And I think the question to me feels a little bit misguided of like, how can I give her feedback if she keeps crying?
Right. It's sort of like, no, just give her the feedback.
Yeah. Her reaction's her reaction.
I don't love that she's - It's actually not okay to have big emotions all the time in the workplace.
No, it's not. But that's a separate issue than whether to give her feedback or not.
Absolutely. I agree with you, though, that part of the direct reports job is to take the feedback and absorb it.
Yeah. Right? Yep. And yet I also wanna say she's not pushing back, from what the letter writer has told us here.
She's not pushing back on the feedback.
She's not saying, no I'm not gonna do that.
But she is taking it, even if she's having this big emotional reaction.
I mean, this letter to me points to something I think about a lot, which is that one of the key skills, I think, where many people are missing in workplaces today is emotional regulations and just the ability to hear tough things, have tough emotions, and then carry on anyway.
Or at least be aware of those emotions, make choices based on them, and then continue.
And I think to be honest, this person didn't go home.
I don't love that she cried hysterically for three hours, sounds exhausting.
But to me, it's not a lost cause, and I think she needs to sort of let the tears happen.
There's something to me I'm guessing and I'm totally projecting here, but I am guessing that there's something about the manager trying to stop the tears that is making the tears worse.
So I think my advice to the manager is, give the feedback, let the tears come, hand her a tissue, and move on with your day.
You know, I'm thinking about our episode we did with Molly West Duffy and Liz Fossling about feelings at work.
Can you have too many feelings?
And, you know, we talked in that episode about how if you're the crier, it can be helpful given that there's so many different reasons that people might get tearful to actually narrate what's going on for you of, oh, you know what, I'm super underslept right now.
Whenever I'm underslept, I tend to go right to tears or I tend to cry when I get really frustrated.
I'm just frustrated by the situation.
Please continue. And it does sound like she said, try to ignore it.
But I think I would like this crier to be a little bit more transparent about what's going on.
I think that's a great point.
But the other thing is I'm not clear on why the direct report was crying.
Was she crying because she felt bad for the dog?
Was she crying because she was she realized she was at fault about something.
I don't understand the source and so asking Yeah, what is upsetting you?
Yeah, you may find out like I just hate making mistakes and then your approach will be a little bit different But people cry for a huge range of reasons.
Yes. They're sad. They're embarrassed.
They're ashamed. They're stressed They're frustrated.
They're under slept.
There's so many things that could be going on Can you practice some emotional?
regulation as the manager and say, okay, you know, get her to develop a little bit of self awareness, what's going on, why is this upsetting, and I think even saying, I need to be able to give you feedback as your manager.
Is there anything I'm doing that's making the feedback tough for you to process or is this something that you are dealing with, you know, just, again, ask the question, what is going on here.
Alright, one more, this one comes from a mid -career professional who's had a great track record at her company for years, but she's struggling after a reorg.
She's now in a new role that she doesn't have a lot of experience in, and she has a new manager who doesn't support or respect her, seeing a theme here with unsupportive managers, she's neurodivergent, told her new manager this and explained what help she needs, but her manager has not followed through with that support.
Her manager also always gives her vague feedback, often telling her to be creative, for example, but then telling her what she delivers is all wrong.
Even when she asked for examples, she says she's perceived as being difficult or inflexible.
It feels impossible for her to deliver high quality work.
There have also been a few times where she's asked her manager to quality check her work before sending it.
And the manager missed a few mistakes and then blamed her.
So this person writes to us and says, This results in me adding pressure on myself to be perfect.
It's gotten to a point where I second guess my every move and feel utterly paralyzed by my fear and anxiety.
Now she's been written up for performance issues, which is a complete 180 from her past experience at this company, where she has been pretty successful and has had supportive managers.
So she's wondering, does she give up and leave, or is there a way that she can get her manager to be more supportive?
Well, it was a really difficult situation.
And I'll start by saying there's a lot of gray area between giving up and leaving and getting her manager to be more supportive.
I'm not sure her manager is going to be more supportive.
It sounds as if her manager's resisted that.
I would go to HR. That's where I was headed, yeah.
Yeah, because HR needs to know that this is going on, this employee, given her record, is probably valued and can be recast in a different role.
And HR should help her find that role.
HR should be set up to handle situations where there are complaints around a disability issue.
And I like what you said of, like, there's a far cry between getting your boss to be supportive.
I'm not sure that's going to happen, but then leaving, right?
There, there's gotta be other solutions.
Alright, if there's something at work that's bothering you or that's got you stumped, try it out on us.
email WomenAtWorkatHBR .org.
We'll save your questions for the next ask the Amies, which we're planning to do quarterly from now on.
This'll be a regular thing.
Thanks to, as always, Women at Work's editorial and production team.
They are Amanda Cursey, Maureen Hoch, Tina Tobey Mac, Hannah Bates, Rob Eckhart, and Ian Fox.
Rob and Maury composed the show's theme music.
Till next time. Till next time, Amy.
Bye. Bye. See ya!
