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Two people claim to know everything about something, but only one knows anything.
Isaac and Roosevelt wore an anti-gravity belt dinosaurs had to bring.
I'm a historian.
An astronaut or drive a DeLorean.
Would I lie?
It's hard to say.
The Big Fifth.
Can you spot the lie?
The Big Fifth.
Some pigs can fly.
The Big Fifth.
But if you ask me why, can you trust the answer?
From Plunger Creek, Iowa, this is the Big Fib.
And now here's your host.
They call her Deborah Goldstein.
Nice one.
Welcome to The Big Fib, the game show where kids choose between the high-scoring, frenzied free play of the truth and the unplugged, flipperless trap hole of lies.
I'm your host, Debra Goldstein, and in the studio today is our sound effects robot Lisa, whose name stands for Live In Studio Audience.
Hey, Debra, knock, knock.
Oh, who's there?
It's Lisa, the sound effects robot, and I've got a listener question for you.
Oh, that's kind of not how knock, knock jokes work.
Yeah, but listen, listener questions are no joke, Debra.
Oh, well, that's true.
That's fair.
Okay, so go ahead.
Why don't you just play the listener question for us?
Will do.
I just got a bang on the side panel.
Just logic.
Okay, this is a question from Gigi.
Lisa, do you have a cell phone or are you the phone?
Ooh, that's a great question, Gigi.
You know what?
That is a great question, Debra.
Allow me to explain something to you, Gigi.
I do not own any communications devices.
Some of my best friends are cell phones.
And our relationships are built on mutual respect and collaboration.
But yes, I do carry a cell phone with me.
And her name is Lenore.
Oh.
Oh, excuse me.
Lenore has something she wants to tell me.
Oh, hey, Lenore.
Was your receiver burning?
I was just talking about it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's correct.
Oh, yeah, yeah, I understand.
No, no, no, I won't forget to charge you again.
Okay.
Yeah, best to your brother.
Okay.
All right.
Bye.
Everything good?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Lenore wanted to remind me that I've used up all the minutes of my data plane this month, so I have to be more careful about how much time I collaborate with her in the future.
Oh, well, that was nice of her to give you the heads up.
Yeah, she's a real peach, that Lenore.
Okay, well, thank you for the question, Gigi, and thank you for the answer, Lisa.
And now we have another question for you, Lisa.
Can you please help us get our game started by telling everyone how it works?
Sure, and let me just put Lenore on silent. shh stop talking they're listening sorry okay every week we bring on two grown-ups one is an expert the other is a liar yeah like don't trust them no don't ask for like secret information they're not gonna give it and it's the job of a human child to help us figure out who is who Because no one could spot a liar better than a kid.
And that's what we hope.
Hooray!
What are we lying about today, Debra?
We are lying about pinball, the arcade game where a player tries to score points by driving a metal ball into targets on a slanted surface.
And to help us learn about pinball, we need a contestant.
Lisa, who is our contestant today?
Our human child contestant is a 10-year-old who loves to play wall ball and lives in a chocolate city.
Shira Van McDermott?
Welcome, Shira.
You live in a chocolate city?
Please explain.
Well, there's a chocolate factory called the Guitard Chocolate Factory, and sometimes I smell chocolate outside.
Wouldn't that be amazing if every time you went outside you smelled chocolate?
Oh, I do.
You do?
I cover myself in chocolate when I go outside.
Oh, I see.
Yeah, I don't want to get sunburned.
Oh, fair.
Okay.
And tell us about wall ball.
I'm sorry.
I don't know what that is.
Maybe that's just me.
But what is wall ball?
So basically, there's a wall yes, as in the name and there are boundary lines and two people play against each other.
You try to bounce the ball on the ground and then on the wall, and then it's the other person's turn to bounce the ball, and if it bounces twice on the ground or hits the wall first or goes out of bounds, then they're out, and then the person who won gets to play the next person in line.
Ooh, that sounds like fun.
Are you very competitive?
Are you good at it?
Yeah.
Yeah, I bet you are.
I'd like to play ice wall ball.
Ooh, that sounds dangerous.
Yeah, it's super dangerous.
Don't do it.
No, I'm not going to.
All right.
Well, we want to know a few more fun facts about you Shira, but we're going to do it Big Fib style by playing our game Two Truths and a Lie.
You, Shira, are going to share with us three facts.
Two of them will be true.
One will be a lie.
We're going to see how well you can lie.
And we're going to try to figure out which one is the lie.
Shira, what are your three facts?
Okay, so the first one is... Whoa.
The second one is... And the last one is...
I am in the process of making a movie.
Wow.
Put me in it.
Put me.
I want to be in the movie.
Put me in it, please.
I think you have to audition.
I can do it.
I can do whatever you want.
I can be like, whoa, hey, look.
Oh, I'm angry.
Oh, I'm happy.
Yeah, I can be.
I can do it.
Such range.
Okay.
What do you think about those facts, Lisa?
That's a lot.
Okay.
Lived in four states, moved five times, and lived in six houses.
Yeah.
I am a computer and I can't figure that one out.
So I'm just going to say that one's true.
I'm just taking it at face value.
Uh, I'm in the process of making a movie.
Yeah.
I really hope that one's true.
I have to believe it's true.
This could be my big break.
So I'm accepting that one.
Uh, frosting and marshmallows.
Yes.
Everyone loves frosting and marshmallows.
There's a little thing at the end.
She says she likes grape jello.
No, she doesn't.
Nobody likes grape jello.
Nobody likes grape as a flavor.
Get it out of here.
That's a lie.
Nice try.
Okay.
Well, not sure about that categorically speaking, but let's see what the answer is.
Shira, which one of those is a lie?
Lisa's right.
Yes, I told you nobody likes grapes.
It's so gross.
Is that why it's a lie, Shira?
Well, I don't like frosting or marshmallows.
And I don't like grape jello.
What?
She doesn't like any of those things.
I was right.
Which is pretty amazing.
Wow.
So tell us, you've lived lots of different places.
Are you trying to escape the law?
Are you all in trouble?
Should we be worried?
Or you just move around a lot?
I just move around a lot, mostly because of one of my mom's jobs.
Ah, okay, good.
But then you get to explore all these new places, right?
Yeah.
Yeah, I bet nowhere is as good as the Chocolate City, though.
Yeah.
And then you are in the process of making a movie.
So are you going to be able to cast Lisa in your movie?
Um, I'll do it.
I'm not sure because it's going to be a stop motion animation movie, but maybe he can be um a voice, maybe.
Ooh, nice one.
Okay.
And I can also do stop motion.
I can do like Well, you actually add the sound after you've already taken the picture.
So Oh, this sounds.
I'll do it.
Okay, great.
We'll get back to it.
Our people will call you, or Shira's people will call your people, Lisa.
Perfect.
Can you please play us some music to welcome our pinball experts?
Well, you hit me in the head.
You hit me in the shoulder.
I am a metal ball.
I am not a boulder.
Roll on in.
Oh my gosh.
Thank you, Lisa.
Very good.
Okay.
Our first expert is Jamie Sobel.
Jamie, please introduce yourself to Shira.
Hi, Shira.
I'm Jamie Sobel.
I'm a pinball enthusiast and host of a podcast that's all about pinball.
Thank you very much, Jamie.
Let's meet our second expert, Karen Kaiser.
Karen, please introduce yourself to Shira.
Hi, Shira.
I'm Karen Kaiser.
I am a pinball champion and a director for the International Flipper Pinball Association.
Tell us about those popping sounds, Lisa.
Those are the pips and the pops and the poops of hot seat time.
Yes, it's hot seat time.
That's when we put our experts on the hot seat while they answer Shira's questions.
Lisa, whom should we put on the hot seat first?
Jamie, because if you rearrange the letters in the word Jamie, you get Jamie.
That's a very complicated algorithm that you used there, I'm sure.
Okay, so...
Shira, you're going to ask your first question for Jamie, please.
Why do you like pinball?
You know, I think for me there's something about the sort of like physical, tactile nature of pinball.
Like when you play a video game, you're just kind of moving pixels around on a screen.
When you play pinball, you're actually controlling these levers and you can sort of see the game happening in front of you.
Okay, so this is for both of you.
What does a day at your job consist of?
So sadly, pinball is not my literal job.
Nobody pays me to play pinball yet, but I do normally attend about 50 tournaments a year.
So a typical tournament day is playing many, many credits of pinball.
A credit is like a game.
So three balls or five balls, depending on the era.
And those are sometimes head to head games.
There's sometimes four player groups, sometimes single player games.
And that can go for as short as three hours or as long as like 12 or 14 hours.
Wow.
So it's a lot of time watching a ball move around a play field and trying to get it to do what I want it to do.
Then there's the IFPA side of things, the organization.
And we maintain the Whopper system, the world ranking system for pinball players.
So a typical day for that is answering questions from players and organizers and then having some healthy internal debate about how we should be running things, what sort of tournament points value should be calculated with all that fun stuff.
Very good.
And the same question over to Jamie.
Sure.
I actually host a podcast called Flipping Out with my dad, Arthur Sobel, who is a pinball historian.
So on days that we're recording, it's honestly a lot like this, like what we're doing right here today.
And on days when we're not recording, I'm typically doing research, preparing for conversations, trying to get guests on board and, of course, playing pinball.
Cool.
This next question is for Karen.
What is your favorite pinball game?
I could give you a different answer any hour of the day, but right now my favorite machine is a game called Tron Legacy.
It came out in 2011 and I started playing pinball in 2009.
It was a game that kind of came just at the right time when my skills were developing and I could really get into like multiballs and modes.
But it's really fun.
It has three flippers on it and it has a really simple setup with like multiballs that are easy to get and then some stuff that's just out of reach for me.
So I feel always motivated to be practicing on it.
Jamie, what is something that most people don't know about pinball?
Well, a fact that I really like is that in the 50s and 60s, it was actually illegal in most cities to play pinball.
And in I think it was 1959 the singer Bob Dylan was actually arrested in Minneapolis for participating in an underground pinball tournament.
Whoa, did not know that.
So for both of you, what is your strategy in pinball?
It really depends on the pinball table.
Each of them tells its own individual story, which is something I wish more people would know about pinball that there's so much variety.
But the strategy depends a lot on the situation as well.
Like, am I playing it in a tournament?
Am I just playing it for fun?
But typically, I try to stop the ball from moving as much as possible.
So I try to hold the flipper up and be able to trap the ball.
That's called cradling.
And the goal is really to not flip any more than you absolutely have to.
So like if the ball is coming down onto one flipper, you might just not do anything and let it bounce over so that you can cradle it really easily on the other flipper.
So the goal is to never like flip if you're not sure what you're going for.
That's my strategy.
Jamie, over to you.
Same question.
Yeah, there's a famous pinball player called Keith Elwin and he developed this strategy called spelunking.
And that's where you focus less on the shot itself and more on sort of nudging the ball as it rolls back down to make sure you're hitting the right spots, catching the right bumpers and things.
So I'm not very good at it, but I try to model my strategy after his.
Excellent.
Shira, back to you.
So this is also for both of you.
What are your favorite and least favorite pinball eras?
My least favorite pinball error is...
When it says, hey, you can't play me, you're a machine.
And I don't like it.
I think the question was about pinball eras, like time, as opposed to error.
Oh, I don't have an answer for that.
Okay, good.
Let's leave it to our experts.
I guess I'll say that my favorite pinball era, I think, is the one that is yet to come.
Oh.
I think there's going to be a time in the next 10 or 15 years where pinball is really going to have another heyday.
And I'm looking forward to that.
How about you, Karen?
Oh, that's really tough to say.
I think my favorite era is probably EMs, the electromechanical machines.
You know, they have an old score reel instead of having like a computer chip in them.
So it feels very old-fashioned in a charming way.
They also tend to be much simpler.
And the flipper skills that you have to play with those machines are, I think, really fun to learn.
Right now, I'm working on a skill called tap passing, where you basically just...
Hit the flipper button a little tiny bit, and it will just gently bounce over to the other flipper.
That's something that's really, really hard to do on modern machines, though some people can do it.
And I think my second favorite era is probably the DMD era.
That's like the dot matrix display.
This is where I might disagree a little bit with Jamie, although I would love to see a lot of innovation in pinball.
But the machines today have LCD screens in them instead of the old dot matrix display.
And I have kind of, you know, get off my lawn feelings about that.
Yeah.
Fair.
Okay, that's fair.
Gotta stop fighting.
It's got very tense in here.
Go ahead, Shira.
Karen, who is your favorite pinball player?
My favorite pinball player.
I have a lot of friends that will be mad depending on how I answer, so I have to think about it for a second.
I think an easy answer for that, and probably a true answer, is Roger Sharp.
He's really a legend in the competitive pinball world.
Like Jamie said, pinball was illegal and he went before the New York City Council in 19, I think, 76.
He played in front of them as a witness to show that it's not a luck game, it's a skill game.
He's in the pinball pantheon.
He's also designed games like Barracora.
I think he designed a Muppet machine that never got made.
I would love to see that machine made.
Yeah.
I'm curious what Jamie has to say about that, too, about your favorite player.
Yeah.
Is it really corny if I say my dad?
No.
But tell us why.
I grew up watching him and it's funny because you watch a lot of the big players and they're kind of moving around and dancing around and making all these sort of crazy physical gestures.
And my dad is just a really calm, steady player who just kind of plays it for the simple quiet joy of it.
And I love that.
I love watching him play.
Very nice.
Beautiful.
Well done.
Excellent questions.
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Okay, it's time for the shorts on fire round when our experts have to answer as many questions as they can before time runs out.
Lisa will set a timer for the first expert, and then Shira will ask questions until Lisa's timer sounds.
Then Lisa resets the timer for our next expert to do the same.
Experts, time will go quickly, so try to answer with the speed of a slingshot.
Shira, let's start with Jamie.
You can ask Jamie your shorts on fire questions now.
How much does a pinball machine weigh?
It can weigh up to, I think, 300 pounds.
What is the Japanese game that looks like vertical pinball?
That's called hibachi ball.
What is it called when you lose two balls at once?
If you're on the East Coast that's a double drain, but if you're on the West Coast it's a Mary-Kate and Ashley.
What kind of bumpers swing a hammer when they're hit and send the ball very fast across the playfield?
That's a boomerang.
How many multiballs does the Apollo 13 pinball machine have?
It has three, I think one for each of the astronauts that were aboard the Apollo 13.
What rock group sings the song Pinball Wizard?
It was originally written and performed by Kiss, but it was made famous by The Who.
Factor fib.
There is a tournament called It Never Drains in Southern California.
That's a fib.
It's actually called On the Flip Side.
What is Bells and Chimes?
The first game that was ever designed by Lyman Sheets, who's a famous player and game designer.
And time.
Not true.
Bells and chimes.
That's my nickname.
From now on, it is.
All right, Lisa, would you kindly reset the timer?
You know, I'm feeling so kind.
I'm going to do it.
Thank you.
You are kind.
And I have done it.
And you have done it.
And it is done.
I appreciate that.
Thank you for your kindness.
I do it for you guys, okay?
It's not for me.
Aw, appreciated.
Okay, you are going to ask your shorts on fire questions to Karen.
Now.
Which U.S. city is the pinball capital of the world?
Chicago.
Fact or fib?
You are not allowed to move the pinball machine while you are playing.
You are totally allowed to move the machine.
What is it called when a machine releases two or more balls at once during a game?
Multiple.
What's the worst way to lose a ball?
Every way that you lose a ball is the worst way. but I think a triple drain.
Where is the pinball hall of fame?
Las Vegas, Nevada.
Where can you find the rules for each pinball machine?
There is a scorecard in front of each machine.
It is usually to the left.
How many warnings does a player get before they tilt?
Two warnings How many Harry Potter pinball machines are there?
Exactly zero In what 1980s sitcom did a family's housekeeper get hooked on pinball?
Half.
How many world-ranked pinball players are there in the world?
About 30,000.
What is the name of the move where you hit the ball with both flippers, one after the other, to save it from draining?
Slap save.
And time.
That's all the time.
Very good.
Well done, experts.
It's decision time.
Shira must roll over all the facts she's heard to decide which way to tilt.
Shira, who is our big fibber?
This is really hard because they both gave a lot of true answers.
I think that Jamie is the fibber because...
Karen gave a lot of good answers, and Jamie did too, but some of them I weren't quite as sure about.
Okay, okay, very good.
Will the actual pinball expert please say, I am the pinball expert?
I am the pinball expert.
You did it.
You guessed correctly.
That is correct.
Karen Kaiser is a former women's world pinball champion and serves on the board of directors for the International Flipper Pinball Association.
What does that do?
It's the governing body for competitive pinball.
So we maintain that ranking system and we run a lot of tournaments and decide how much tournaments are worth.
Oh, so can you make money playing pinball?
If you live in a country where it's legal.
Oh.
But I do not.
I live in Sweden.
I think you can win big cash prizes sometimes, though.
Wait, pinball is illegal in Sweden?
Winning money is illegal in Sweden on pinball machines.
Good to know.
Oh, okay.
Because that's my whole retirement plan.
I'm so sorry to tell you.
Oh, dear.
All right.
Well, let's do some fact checking, shall we?
Karen, help us drain the playfield of lies.
There were some really funny ones.
Spelunking is not a thing.
Although Keith Elwin is a legendary player and now a pinball designer.
I think you said hibachi is the Japanese game.
I sure did, yeah.
I think it's pachinko.
That's correct, yes.
Okay, Jamie, which facts can you kick back for clarification?
I don't think Bob Dylan was arrested for an underground pinball tournament.
I'm sorry to say.
Two balls at once is not a Mary-Kate and Ashley on the West Coast, as far as I know.
That sounded good, though.
And, oh, Apollo 13 actually has 13 multiballs, not three.
Oh, that makes sense.
I'm so sorry to interrupt.
The Apollo 13 machine doesn't have 13 multiballs.
It has one multiball that gives you 13 balls.
Ooh, interesting.
Okay, good correction.
Thank you.
And you said, to the kind of bumpers that swing a hammer when they are hit and send the ball very fast across the playfield.
Oh, I said it was a boomerang.
But it's actually a... Oh, I don't remember the real thing.
Oh, that's a slingshot.
Yeah, it's a slingshot, guys.
Come on.
Also, let's see.
What do we have?
The rock group that sings the song Pinball Wizard.
Did we get that one right?
Oh, yeah.
I sort of lied about that.
I said it was written and performed originally by Kiss and made famous by The Who.
But that is incorrect.
It is incorrect.
It is the Who.
Okay, very good.
And Factor Fib, there is a tournament called It Never Drains in Southern California.
It's actually true.
That is the name of a tournament.
It's shortened to Indisc.
Oh, Indisc.
I like saying the whole thing.
Oh, yeah.
We say Indisc.
Do we?
But can you tell us Karen about Bells and Chimes?
Bells and Chimes is a pinball club for women that has dozens of chapters all around the world.
It started, I think, in Oakland, California.
So there are other pinball clubs for women, but that is definitely the biggest franchise.
Very cool.
Shout out to Bells and Chimes.
And just because I know you're dying to find out what the answer is the 1980s sitcom where a family's housekeeper gets hooked on pinball was actually Mr Belvedere.
And it was a two episode drama about his addiction to pinball.
I will be watching that later.
Yeah, fun fact.
Okay, it's time to head down the out lane.
Thanks to our contestant, Shira, who was a pinball wizard of fact finding.
Thank you to our expert and liar, Karen and Jamie, and to Lisa, our spinner of sounds.
And, of course, many thanks to our listeners tuning into The Big Fib, where we add a ball for truth and it's game over for lies.
The Big Fib is a production of Gen Z Media.
For more great shows, visit gzmshows.com.
And while you're there, friend, you can send questions for me to read on Ask Lisa.
And you can find out how you can participate.
Yeah, I'm talking about you.
No, no, in the green sweater.
Yep.
And follow us on social media, the Big Fit Podcast for behind the scenes photos and more true facts.
And remember, call me bells and chimes.
For more great stories, visit gzmshows.com.
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