Discussion keeps the world's turning.
This is Round Table.
Hello everybody, welcome to Round Table.
Coming to you live from Beijing, I'm Ha Young.
Good to have you join us on a day's show, countless super young influencers on TikTok.
Known as Sephora Kiz, recommend skincare products for the kid in tween demographic,
including wrinkle creams.
These beauty products are packaged in neon color bottles and tubes, which can kind of look like toys.
And they can cost $70 US dollars, or more than $500 yuan a pop.
Should we be worried?
Are Sephora Kiz turning innocent fun into a risky obsession?
Also, isn't it the parents that are enabling them?
And we're all ears for your birding questions and epic stories.
Grab your smart phone, record a voice memo, and let's make radio magic.
Center for thoughts to eZEFM around table at FoxMail.com.
You might just steal the spotlight in our next Heart to Heart.
For today's program, I'm joined by Yushan and Steve Hatherley on the show in this studio.
First, what's your ultimate go-to lip gloss for that perfect pout?
Hmm, which toner is right for your skin texture?
Oh, and what about that hydrating sheet mask or that brightening peel-off mask that promises to make your skin glow?
These are all common questions of a Sephora kid.
Tweens aged 8 to 12 or younger on their TikTok pages.
It's a huge global viral trend.
But wait, aren't they a little bit young for these skincare products?
Especially since many of these items are designed for much older adults with anti-aging knees.
So Steve, what's going on with Sephora kids?
And they're probably named after the cosmetic chain, right?
They are indeed. We all know the store, right?
I've been to numerous shopping malls here in Beijing and in China.
And I don't think I've been to a shopping mall that didn't have one Sephora shop.
But in case you don't know, it's a company that sells makeup and skincare and fragrance and hair and beauty products.
Did you know that the French luxury group LVMH, that's Moe, Hennessy, Louis Vuitton owns Sephora?
I didn't know that before.
Well, I guess since they're sponsoring the Paris Summer Olympic Games and being the largest luxury group out there in the world, then yes, I was a little surprised.
Yeah, right? Anyway, they have about 2,700 stores globally.
They have 1,000 independent shops in the United States.
But it's not so much about the store or the business here as it is about the kids.
The young, as you mentioned in the opening of our show today, these are kids between the ages of eight and twelve sometimes, younger by the way.
They have become obsessed with skincare, curiosity for all different types of creams and gels and face masks and facial peels.
Even if you can imagine a child needing a facial peel, this has earned them the moniker Sephora kids.
Oh my gosh.
The first time I ever heard about such functions was when I was like almost twice as their age.
And I was like, yeah, when I first heard this news or rather the moniker of Sephora kids,
I actually interviewed my friend in Canada, like saying, is this real?
Like kind of Sephora to me is kind of like an inexpensive makeup place that almost smells like it's like a combination of two much fragrance, all combined in one spot.
You can't miss it if you're in the mall.
Yeah, it's a makeup shop essentially.
And it's just not a spot that you expect to find children shopping.
When you guys were young, I think it's natural, right, for young children to want to play with their moms or their dads, creams or lotions or whatever.
Did you do that when you were a kid play with play with your moms makeup?
Oh yeah, and I got caught once.
It was like a little powder thing that's supposed to, you know, kind of smooth your skin, hide all your pores.
And I was probably in primary school and I read on the, you know, the advertisement saying this does that. And I was like, oh, my mom has it.
And I just tried to apply it and thinking that makeup and skincare was the same thing in my, you know, very innocent mind.
And the other day, my mom discovered it. And in the morning she saw like my skin looking pillar than usual. And she was like, what the heck did you do?
And I told her, and yeah, that's just didn't end up well.
So I'll also do that. Yeah. Well, I was a light bloomer. I think I still am. I'm always sort of behind my peers.
You're still playing with your moms makeup products. Just getting into that.
If you go online, if you go into TikTok, you're going to see a ton of videos. Some of them go under this name, GRWM, get ready with me.
And what you'll see in these videos, and I watched a few myself is you'll see these really young kids eight to 12 sometimes younger.
In fact, the last video I watched was of a little girl. She was going through her skincare routine. I would guess she was about seven years old.
And her mom was in the background kind of following her routine as well.
That's what you're going to see if you go online, you're going to see these videos of these young people going through their eight sometimes up to 12 step skin care routines.
And they often call them get ready with me, like get ready with me to go to school, get ready with me to go to bed. Do you see what I mean?
Yeah. And then the routine becomes a part of that.
Yes. And also you mentioned the multiple step routine and also it all usually involves multiple products and chitching that's all like ringing money to me.
And actually, if you don't really know your skin type really well or know the products really well, then you could easily be concocting a potentially harmful skin care smoothly, a smoothie that is really bad for you.
That's actually sort of the term that's come up with capturing this phenomenon.
It's also what experts talk about, you know, when they say that this is a dangerous thing for kids to be doing the proponents, the people who say this is okay, they argue what's the problem.
Makeup is simply powder lotion, something that you put on your face and you can wash it off just as easily. What's the harm? There's no harm here, right? And we should say as well, this is a really, really divisive issue.
A lot of people online are totally against this dermatologists are making their own tick talk videos warning about this.
But there are parents out there who are taking their kids shopping and they're supporting their little girls making these videos online.
Speaking of the dermatologist, they're saying that the biggest problem with children doing this is that the products or the chemicals in the makeup, in the lotions, the fragrances, retinol is one of the examples of the chemicals.
Children's skin can't handle these types of chemicals and it's causing pre problems for these pre teens. This is a time when acne is developing in these young people and it's causing such problems to the skin that acne is coming earlier in some cases than it should be.
When you say retinol in Chinese is sure Huang Chun and I remember reading that in my late 20s and that's the key ingredient for anybody who want to make sure that you're presumably anti-aging product does the job.
It's the anti-aging chemical.
It's ridiculous to have that on the skin of a child who's not even hit per puberty for example.
It will mess up your system.
One question is that who told this kid to stay young and beautiful forever already? Why do they already have this awareness?
This isn't new by the way. This idea of teens expressing themselves through pretty clothes or makeup or hairstyles, that's not new.
I remember when I was young I had two older sisters and they were reading these magazines and they were doing these things as well.
They were 16, 17, 18 years old at the time, double the age of the kids that we're talking about here. But the concept of young people being marketed to in terms of having that fresh face, that beautiful skin, that concept is not new at all.
I have a question here which sort of circles back to what you shan't said earlier that I wonder if these kids are aware that some cosmetic products are targeted are for the purpose of skin care.
Some are makeup that's putting on eyeshadow, lipstick, those kind of things.
And skin care is more like a preserving your skin or making it better. So are these young kids in it to look forever young?
Therefore the skin care side of things or do they just want to try to put more color on their face and treat their face like a canvas for self expression or imagination being put on their face?
So I think about that word canvas, one dermatologist said your skin is not a wall that you can throw stuff at.
Your skin reacts to the things that you put on it. So to come in on your canvas, that's what dermatologists are saying about that.
And then the dermatologist are also saying getting to care about your skin at a young age is not a bad thing. Getting into the habit of washing your face before you go to sleep at night, applying sunscreen before you go out in hot summer weather or even when the sun is strong in the winter time.
These are healthy things that kids could be doing, but ironically skin care in terms of sunscreen. That's not something these Sephora kids are interested in to answer your question about, you know, do they know the difference? I would guess no, they don't know the difference.
They talk about where this came from. You shan't going back to your question during the pandemic. A lot of young kids had to have their classes through zoom, right? Their school classes. So they suddenly became aware of the importance.
If that's the right word of looking good on a screen or a camera now combine that with social media, then combine that with the social pressure of their friends all doing this as well. And boom, it's the perfect storm to become a Sephora kid.
I absolutely agree with that because it sounds to me that this is more of a psychological need rather than I actually need to put all that onto my face kind of requirement, you know, because like Steve mentioned just now these kids, maybe they just want attention or they were pressured to the point that they think all their peers are doing so.
So it's worth following the trend in a way. And also we can never ignore the impact of social media because go get ready with me. Sounds way too familiar. You know, back in like a decade ago, I used to follow those videos on YouTube were on all like social media channels all the time. Like I felt like it's such a new thing to like a young adult or like a teenager at the age where they start to pay more attention on their face, on their look.
So it's like it has to appeal definitely but for these younger kids like before entering their teenager years, they are already like paying extra attention or applying more than they need is more of a psychological need of being, you know, on the focus of attention.
They're clogging their pores in the process of doing that. And of course these kids, they don't know what they're doing to their skin right how could they possibly know, but doctors are saying they're seeing these kids come into their office with redness and burning and itching and scaling.
I don't even know what scaling is but it sounds really painful.
Rashes too, you know, there was one story of a little girl who was using retinol. Again, that's the anti-aging chemical. She was using a product that had retinol in it under her eyes.
And it caused such a severe rash to her skin that the doctor said it would take well over a month for that rash to clear out.
By the way, that little patch of skin underneath your eyes, that's one of the most sensitive parts of your skin and your whole body.
It's also one of the hardest to take care of when you get old her teeth.
That is so true. And also, I'll refer to my 20s. I remember when my friend was like, you know, you got to just start taking care of yourself. Look at your face.
I was like, what are you my friend? And then anyhow, and then apparently she recommended this eye cream to me, but I applied it on and then I got these little bumps underneath my eyes.
And apparently that's just a way I was way too young for that.
How old? You were in your 20s.
Yeah, and that was marketed. That was designed for those in their 40s. So you got to be careful with these things.
Talk about marketing. This is part of the problem as well. These stores are selling and you could blame Sephora in this case, but not to vilify only Sephora.
Yeah. Right. Plenty of businesses are doing this. The marketing is really cool. The colors are cool. They're vibrant. They're flashy. They're fun.
The bottles are in a design that makes it attractive to children. So they want these things when they see them on the shelves.
Yeah. The marketing part is huge. And the social media part is also connected to the marketing. So it just feels like these days growing up.
There are far more hidden risks and far more commercial opportunities for businesses than it used to be. Maybe.
And I wonder if like in a few years time or in a decade later, maybe when we look back in today's age and then we just let kids just open the gate and let them on social media with no guardrails, safety bells, whatsoever.
We would, well, then people would go, those people were nuts. How could they let it's like letting kids drink at this age? It's just unthinkable.
When I was living in Canada, I worked for a beer company and they had created a new beer and they wanted it to be called frosted frog.
And the label was of this cartoon frog sitting on some ice or something like that. The Canadian government said you can't go with that design because it looks like you're marketing to young people because the logo was a cartoon.
Right. So the government said it looks like you're trying to influence the next group of beer drinkers before they become beer drinkers.
And the company wasn't allowed to use that logo. Maybe we see something introduced in the future where companies can't design things that would be considered attractive to children if the products are unhealthy for children.
You could make that argument about cereal as well, right? Sugary cereals. They're not, you know, they're not, they don't put rules in place for them. Should they do it here?
That's a very, sorry, let me just quickly jump in and offer like maybe a male counterpart sort of example to this because I was wondering, what are little boys doing when apparently mostly these are little girls or so-called for kids?
And then apparently now, you know, just echoing what you just said, Steve, that there are these huge popular cologne companies, or usually they're affiliated to designer houses.
And then they've been marketing these fragrances to little boys. So when the little girls might be looking up the makeup routine, the little boys are like, okay, if I spray on this massively overpriced cologne, I feel macho.
For more grown up, I feel like, you know, maybe the ideal man that I want to grow into. So this is all, well, there's definitely the business side of it, but what are the regulators looking at?
Yeah, right. Yeah, right.
Putting rules in place, Assemblymember Alex Lee has introduced a bill to protect children from potentially harmful skin care products.
This bill is called AB2491. And the plan is to ban the sale of anti-aging cosmetic products to children under the age of 13.
Assemblymember Lee said social media has kicked off a trend of children using anti-aging products with powerful active ingredients that may be harmful to them.
We're seeing this on both the national and international level. And this bill protects our young people from the unnecessary risks of using products that are not suitable for their skin care needs.
Now, that would solve the problem of stores selling directly to the children. It would not solve the problem of moms or dads buying these products, taking them home and letting the children use them. There's simply no way to regulate that.
I was thinking exactly the same. If it's me, like a young teen who's so eager to try out something and pretend that I'm an adult and just feel good about my face and all that, then if I see it that I can't buy it myself, maybe I'll just have like an elder sibling or whoever to get it so that I can use it in whichever way I can afford to.
It's not really like the best solution of it all, but in the meantime, we see how these products are made accessible to young people who are younger generation these days.
Because I remember back in the day, I couldn't even find Sephora or really get access to all these products so easily as I want to. They're not all over the place yet.
But these days, they can just go inside the mall or order it online whenever they want to. So I think it's very considerate that at least on the upper stream, like the companies, they start starting to figure things out on how they can kind of set up some boundaries or policies to protect the kids in the first place.
Can I also add just one point to that the Alex Lee, the assembly member who I think rightfully proposed this legislation, but it got shut down.
One of the things that the companies or actually the opponents voiced was that it's too difficult to check the IDs of kids at the counter.
But with the legislator who went on records saying that is bogus.
Because if you can't let a kid go into the cinema in the US or our rated movie, then how come you could allow this kid to go buy skincare products that's not for their age?
If you have security standing outside a bar, checking IDs to make sure young people don't come into that bar, why not, why is that not the same thing?
Right? Asking to see an ID that's a pretty weak argument.
I think so too.
One of the things that we haven't talked about just yet and I know we only have a couple of minutes left, the emotional impact of this as well.
We know the damage to the skin, but what about damage to things like self-confidence? Now young people are living in an era where everything is published online on their TikTok, on their Instagram, on their YouTube pages.
And the idea seems to be now that kids have accepted the fact that to be accepted online, they need to put on makeup.
They need to look a certain way to look better.
They need to look better.
Quote unquote better.
And that version of me is the one that's accepted.
When I don't wear that makeup, when I don't use those products, I'm not good enough.
That's the emotional danger of this situation as a two.
So there's two sides, two very dangerous sides to this coin.
And what you just said isn't that also plaguing a lot of adults too.
And I've been kind of conscious about this.
And I realize 99% of people on my WeChat friend moments, they all use filters when publishing their photos.
I know what you look like in real life.
And then I do the same.
Yeah, everybody does.
But we, as adults, we at least have the emotional capacity to know the difference between,
I'm not good enough, if I don't do that, or I'm a good person, I'm good enough anyway.
Children don't have the emotional capacity to know that yet.
So they're learning a bad lesson that this is what people are saying.
The people who are against this so strongly, the children are learning a bad and dangerous lesson at such a young age.
And they're using products that are really, really damaging to their skin.
And so at this point, I think it's worth mentioning that we need,
kind of need all of our parents out there to be aware of this too.
If you realize we're noticed that your kid is, you know, paying extra attention on skincare,
don't see it as a bad thing as my mom used to.
And then they're just encouraged them, like dermatologists would do, like,
okay, it's nice that you're taking good care of your skin.
But in the meantime, trying to figure out like why?
Is it just like a vanity fair kind of influence that, oh, I need to be part of this trend.
I need to look good, or that you, I actually need to apply all those toners and serums and stuff.
And that's what they say.
That's what the experts say is that if your child is one of these kids who is wanting
to use these makeup products for their TikTok videos or other social media,
ask them why, get to the root of the problem.
You know, there's a lot of pressure on parents here as well,
because these kids, their friends are all doing it.
So if you simply say, no, you're not.
Sorry, all your friends are doing this, but you're not.
Then, you know, you could be creating another problem socially for your child as well.
But, well, part of parenting is saying no to your kids.
And I remember back in the day when I was a kid,
the girls are at least in the high school that I went to in the UK.
They all wore refluron polo shirts.
And if you did, then, you know, you're, well, even if you aren't necessarily part of the cool gang,
at least commercially, you can be closer to them.
And my parents said no.
And also for the guys, like that was Air Jordan, sneakers.
And I saw a lot of kids who didn't wear them.
And, you know, parents have to like, stake their ground.
I think you can't.
There are things maybe you'll give into your kids, but there are things you just shouldn't.
You should pick and choose and say no.
And parents need to be fully aware of what is happening here, why this is happening,
why kids, why their kid is wanting to do this.
Find out the reasons, talk to your kids and try to solve the problem.
All right.
And also I wonder if this points to maybe a deeper, potentially philosophical paradox of human existence,
that is the relentless pursuit of temporal displacement in a way.
So basically this unfortunate tendency to always yearn for an age other than our own,
that it creates a long life cycle of dissatisfaction.
In youth, we're so eager to push against the boundaries of childhood,
yearning to, well, to get the freedoms, the perceived freedoms, and respect of adulthood.
But when we're older, we're always looking to how to become younger.
And when are we satisfied with that?
And we'll be back after this break.
Stay tuned for more Roundtable discussion.
