This is an iHeart Podcast.
Guaranteed human.
Have you ever listened to those true crime shows and found yourself with more questions than answers?
Who catfishes a city?
Is it even safe to snort human remains?
Is that the plot of Footloose?
I'm comedian Rory Scovel and I'm here to tell you Josh Dean and I have a new podcast that celebrates the amazing creativity of the world's dumbest criminals.
It's called Crimeless, a true crime comedy podcast.
Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
I'm investigative journalist Melissa Jeltsin.
My new podcast What Happened in Nashville tells the story of an IVF clinic's catastrophic collapse and the patients who banded together in the chaos that followed.
It doesn't matter how much I fight.
Doesn't matter how much I cry over all of this.
It doesn't matter how much justice we get.
None of it's going to get me pregnant.
Listen to What Happened in Nashville on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Who would you call if the unthinkable happened?
My sister was shot 22 times.
A police officer, right?
But what do you do when the monster is the man in blue?
This dude is the devil.
He'll hurt you.
This is the story of a detective who thought he was above the law until we came together to take him down.
I said, you're going to see my face to the day that you die.
Listen to The Girlfriends Untouchable on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
I know he has a reputation, but it's going to catch up to him.
Gabe Ortiz is a cop.
His brother, Larry, a mystery Gabe didn't want to solve until it was too late.
He was the head of this gang.
You gonna push that line for the cause?
Took us under his wing and showed us the game, as they call it.
When Larry's killed, Gabe must untangle a dangerous past, one that could destroy everything he thought he knew.
Listen to The Brothers Ortiz on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Hi, Kyle.
Could you draw up a quick document with the basic business plan?
Just one page as a Google doc and send me the link.
Thanks.
Hey, just finished drawing up that quick one page business plan for you.
Here's the link.
But there was no link.
There was no business plan.
I hadn't programmed Kyle to be able to do that yet.
I'm Evan Ratliff here with a story of entrepreneurship in the AI age.
Listen as I attempt to build a real startup run by fake people.
Check out the second season of my podcast Shell Game on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Hello, everybody.
I'm Gemma Spake and welcome back to The Psychology of Your 20s, the podcast where we talk through the biggest changes, moments and transitions of our 20s and what they mean for our psychology.
Hello everybody, welcome back to the show.
Welcome back to the podcast, new listeners, old listeners, wherever you are in the world.
It is so great to have you here back for another episode, as we, of course, break down the psychology of our 20s.
It is that time of year again.
If you have been listening all of December, you'll know it is guest month, where I just bring on interesting cool, exciting people experts yeah, whoever I really feel interested in talking to to yeah, talk about their lives and talk about what they're passionate about and their interests, and so far it's been going amazing and I feel like we've had some really cool conversations.
But Our most precious amazing guest is coming on today and that is you guys.
That is you all, the listeners of the podcast.
Every year I do one episode like this where I call out for you guys to send in your questions and your queries and your dilemmas as voice notes so that you can be featured on the podcast.
And today is that day.
We had over.
I don't know.
I think like a hundred of you.
Yeah, voicemail me, call in to the podcast to be included.
But I chose just seven questions today to really deep dive into.
So I hope you enjoy and thank you to all of you who contributed, whether you're featured or not.
It was great honestly, just getting to hear your voices and being like wow, look at all these cool people that are like, that are listening to my podcast and that want to be involved and that's just like exciting and all your different accents and like yeah, just different voices.
It was like the coolest thing ever.
So, without further ado, let's get into it, starting with this first question.
Hi Gemma, so I just moved back to my hometown in the north of Spain.
I've been living the past nine years in Madrid.
I studied there, worked there, have all my friends there, and now I have encountered a situation that I moved back to my hometown and I actually have to create a social life for myself there and honestly, I don't really know how to do it.
I have a couple friends They don't really seem to be that close anymore.
I feel like I have to reveal social connections, but in a way and in a place where I should have them.
So it's very confusing, let alone the fact of moving back home with your parents after being on your own for nine years.
That's definitely taken a toll on my mental health.
Thank you.
I love your podcast.
Thank you for your question.
This is a much more common experience than I think people realize.
Moving back home to the places of our childhood to live with our parents after college or after a breakup, or just you know, when things go wrong and when things go right is actually something that I'm hearing about and seeing a lot of my friends more and more.
It does put us in a really weird position, though and I feel like this listener described it perfectly where you come back to this environment where you assume that things might be the same, where you assume you'll have friends and you don't, and you have to rebuild what was once there and what you had previously, and the thing is There's no guidebook.
No one teaches us this.
There's no like intro to friendship course.
There's just this assumption that you meet people and they like you and you like them and it works out well and you have enough contact that you develop a friendship.
We all know there are less opportunities for that anyways.
Meeting people through convenient means like school and like classes and like hobbies and work are, like some of the only ways to do that.
And when you don't have school anymore, when it's kind of hard to fit in your hobbies with work, when you work remotely like, it becomes a lot more difficult.
So my advice to you would be this it's so great you already have friends there probably, I'm assuming, like you said, from childhood don't rely on them too heavily obviously, stay in contact, but consider them to just be like this amazing social safety net that you can go and talk to about this.
But also that you need to expand out beyond, get as in person as possible, do things that you feel almost embarrassed about or that are going to be a little bit weird, and do them alone as a way to meet new people and sometimes to have that desperation like really force you to interact with people you might not otherwise have.
So what I mean by that is I need you to be going to pub nights, choir nights, pottery classes.
I need you to be going to lecture nights, especially if they're free, like events at the local library bars, trivia nights, like things like that, by yourself, or by inviting people that you might not know that well, With just giving them the invitation and being like hey, would you want to do this?
Yes or no?
Being the instigator.
I talk about this so much on my episodes about friendship, but being the instigator is a role that isn't filled in our society as much anymore, but everybody is craving somebody who will do it.
Everybody wants the friend who's going to plan the group trips, who is going to make sure you have wednesday night plans.
Make sure you have friday night plans.
If you do not have that, be that.
Be the one who like, puts their heart on the line to make community for others and people will just flock to you.
Like it's seriously, it's magnetic.
How many people are looking for somebody like that in their life?
The other thing i would say that you should do is i think i talked about this in like an episode i did on moving to london.
Another thing I think you should do and I said this and I talked about this on my episode about moving to London ask to be set up with friends of friends.
Ask if there are people that you know, who know people in that area who they think you would like, and just do so like, unabashedly and unashamedly.
Be like Hey, I like your friend Mark.
Like, do you think he'd ever want to hang out with me?
Like platonically?
Hey, I like your friend, Rebecca.
Like, can we do something all together?
Making those connections through other connections, like seeing humanity and friendship, like the chain link that it is, is so valuable.
And also, this is unrelated, but entirely related.
Know that time is sometimes the most significant factor.
When we look at what makes people friends, yes, similarity is important.
Convenience is important.
Trust is important.
Time is the biggest factor.
You know, Dunbar's number dictates the amount of hours you have to put into a friend or into an acquaintance for them to become a friend.
It's it's somewhere like 200 hours and you can look at that mountain in front of you and be like, how am I possibly going to do this, especially with multiple people?
And then one day you'll be at the top of the mountain being like wow, We did that and we are so close and we have a great relationship because we prioritize each other and because we took the small moments that we had and just like ran with them and because we compounded our friendship and our interest in each other over time.
So good luck.
I'm sure it's going to be amazing and hopefully I get an update from you in a couple of months time being like hey, I'm feeling a lot better about this so yeah okay, who are we going to hear from next?
Let's listen to this one here Hi Gemma.
So I just got out of a three year relationship and I'm realizing that I centered my entire identity around him and his parents and all my time and energy kind of went into his goals for our life.
So I guess my question is how do I go back to my own roots and figure out what I want from this life and from my twenties?
Um, and I just wanted to say thank you, Gemma, on behalf of all of your listeners.
Um, I think I re-listened to the episode where you talked about when you know it's time to walk away, or when to know, how to know when it's time to walk away, about 10 times before I did walk away.
But um, you have changed my life and we just want to encourage you and please keep doing what you're doing.
Oh, that's so sweet.
And they always make me, I always feel so embarrassed, but I appreciate, I appreciate the love.
And I'm just going to say, I am so excited for you.
And maybe that's not what you want to hear, but oh my God, I am so excited for you and for this next chapter and how freaking amazing it's gonna end up being.
One of my best friends is going through a breakup right now.
I gave her that same advice.
Breakups, especially with someone you've been with for a while, are chaotic and deeply painful, and sometimes the, the grief and the guilt and all that tangles up together and feels inescapable.
It's also just like such fertile ground for growth.
You've already lost this relationship.
Sometimes it feels like what else do I have to lose?
So you're just like so much more.
You have so much more room for experimentation with your life.
And because you're just so in touch with who you are, because you're not distracted by having this partner, you're not distracted by dating.
You're so in your own head and you're in your own thoughts about your feelings.
What is going to come next often appears to you very rapidly and And in like great moments of inspiration, like genuinely that is how this podcast started was after a breakup.
Because
It's just like every emotion is on the surface.
You're able to intuitively feel them better.
And you're also keen to do something with your energy and with your time.
So I am super excited for you.
I honestly think it's going to be great.
My advice for reclaiming your life back now that you've de-centered this man or this person and and his family and it sounds like all of his friends as well is to just firstly reconnect with your old friends be completely honest and say hey I'm sorry like that relationship took a lot from me and I you know want to say I'm not the person or didn't think I was going to be the person that that happened to but it did and if you have me back in your life um I'd be very grateful be very earnest with your feelings towards old friendships and then similar to the advice I gave to the last listener just hobby your life to the max I want to see a full calendar some people say like distraction after a breakup is just avoidance no it's not it's completely not it's a healthy coping mechanism you are taking your pain and I want you to be putting it into all different avenues anything that you've ever thought you might like or that you wanted to explore now is your chance because you just have so much free time you're just such an an open soul and an open wound there's so much gushing out that like it's just going to ignite so many fires and it's just going to be honestly pretty wonderful and spectacular what you end up discovering about yourself and I will also say read, read, read or listen to podcasts, listen to audio books.
Some of the times like the best way to find yourself is by discovering how other people did it and hearing their stories of how they became passionate about something and how they discovered the narrative of their life and how they, you know, came back from hard circumstances like taking yourself out of your mind and out of your circumstances, and And seeing other people's lives and what they've done with them can be deeply inspirational and, I think, also gives you some of that emotional distance from the breakup that we need when we're in those early days of healing so we don't feel like
This is all that life is.
So I keep saying this best of luck, like I'm rooting for you.
We have so many episodes on this, by the way.
We just did one recently on de-centering romance in your 20s that I think you personally would really enjoy. enjoy so yeah there's so much so much advice I could give I'm going to keep it small and simple hobby your life up earnestly re-approach friends read engage with material beyond your circumstances and beyond your breakup and just know that you freaking got this and it's going to be amazing even if it's not great right now all right let's move on to our next question Hi there.
I wanted to ask your opinion on navigating people not liking you in your 20s.
Whether it's jealousy or your personalities clash.
I think this is an experience many people go through.
But when it is happening to you, you feel really alone and like it's only ever happened to you.
Thank you so much for watching.
The feeling of being misunderstood by others and judged by others, and how not to let that shake your core or kind of send you into this very, very big spiral.
I just find that a lot of episodes are very, very good to relate to, but when people are purposely mean in life, it's not perceiving them to be like that, it's a real experience.
So I I would just ask your opinion on how to navigate that, how not to become consumed by people's negativity towards you or being misunderstood, and how to just move forward from it all and not be held down by the weight of it.
Thank you Oh, I love this question.
I love this question because it's been something I've been thinking about a lot, and I love that you made that distinction.
It's not perception.
This is actually happening.
I've had this happen a bit recently with, just like some online hate that I've been getting, which I have this theory that if, like you reach a certain level of followers or certain level of listeners, like that's when like people just come and they find you and they want to bring you down and They want to be not just critical, because criticism is actually something I enjoy and that I do respond to.
I was going to say respond well to, I don't, but I do try and respond better to.
But there's this kind of person that just like maliciously gets something out of making your day worse and hating on you and ruining your reputation and being like hurtful and spiteful.
And when I encounter these people, I do this thought exercise that really helps me have not just neutrality but kindness towards these people, because really my ambition and my goal is, when this happens, is to have forgiveness and love towards these people, because I find that that's like the strongest, deepest antidote to them being able to hurt you.
And And how I do it is I think, about the times when I've been in that mindset, when I have been maybe not hateful.
I don't think that I actually really don't think I ever have been hateful, but when I've been angered at somebody, when I've been judgmental of somebody, when I've perhaps gossiped about somebody, when I've been furious at somebody who cut me off,
And I think about how the reaction that left on my body and on my heart and on my mind and it's never been good, it's never been good it's always left me exhausted, kind of terrified, tired.
I feel the ugliness in me right, it's that Roald Dahl quote from the twits like if you are, you could be the most beautiful person in the world, but if you think terrible, ugly thoughts about others, you'll never be truly beautiful.
Meanwhile, you could be objectively unattractive, but if you think good, positive thoughts, beauty will always shine out of your face like a million flowers.
I'm obviously butchering that quote, but I think about that and I think about how this cruelty and meanness must be manifesting in them to such an intensity that it's able to be projected onto you.
And having that empathy also makes me realize this has nothing to do with me.
90 of people's opinions criticisms, perceptions of you.
Cruelty towards you is just a real, deep reflection of something within them.
And I know that's probably advice or things that you hear often.
You hear that a lot and then when you really sink into that like sometimes, it just hits when you're like, oh gosh yeah, like they want to pull me down because to see me succeed would prove everything about them that they don't like.
They want to criticize me because I'm friends with somebody else, because they are deeply jealous, because they don't feel worthy of friendship in the first place.
There's all these deep psychological cognitive explanations for why people behave like this.
Understanding that more is the first step.
And the second step is not just to ignore, it is to appreciate it, take what you can from it and then just let it go.
Take what you can from it because sometimes like there is genuine criticism in someone's words.
Sometimes there's not, but if there is even a nugget of it, that's great.
They've given you a gift.
The rest of it you can literally just throw away.
Sometimes getting existential and realizing how short life is is also really valuable to me.
Not just how short life is, but how small each of us is and how small our circumstances are in the broad scheme of things is really valuable to me, and it's not.
I don't do it to make myself feel bad or feel like I'm overreacting, not at all.
I just do it because it gives me perspective and it allows my center, my emotional orbit, to not be this other person, because neither of us really matter that much.
Their opinion doesn't really matter about me.
Like their opinion of me doesn't really matter.
My opinion of them doesn't really matter.
And having that kind of detachment almost, and that big picture out of earth experience or perspective, lets you just roll with the punches a little bit more.
My final piece of advice on this is like, if you can I know it's hard if you work with somebody or their family
I'm a big fan of the block button. you know what, like, you just block them.
Just don't be part of their life as much as you possibly can.
And I know that you're going to think that's going to change how your friends maybe perceive you, especially if you're in a friendship group together or anything like that.
But you know, people make up their own minds about people and they see a lot more than you think they do and they can tell a lot more than you need to tell them.
So let people make their own opinions and own judgments about these people.
I'm sure they will definitely come around to the right opinion and see what is happening.
Don't try and force them and just do whatever it takes to yeah, I guess protect your peace.
I hope that's the advice that you were looking for and best of luck.
Okay, we're going to take a short break here.
But when we return, we have some more listener questions.
So stay tuned.
I'm investigative journalist Melissa Jeltsin.
My new podcast What Happened in Nashville tells the story of an IVF clinic's catastrophic collapse and the patients who banded together in the chaos that followed.
We have some breaking news to tell you about.
Tennessee's attorney general is suing a Nashville doctor.
In April 2024, a fertility clinic in Nashville shut down overnight, and trapped behind locked doors were more than a thousand frozen embryos.
I was terrified.
Out of all of our journey, that was the worst moment ever.
At that point, it didn't occur to me what fight was going to come to follow.
But this story isn't just about a few families' futures.
It's about whether the promise of modern fertility care can be trusted at all.
It doesn't matter how much I fight.
Doesn't matter how much I cry over all of this.
It doesn't matter how much justice we get.
None of it's going to get me pregnant.
Listen to What Happened in Nashville on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Have you ever listened to those true crime shows and found yourself with more questions than answers?
And what is this?
How is that not a story we all know?
What's this?
Where is that?
Why is it wet?
Boy, do we have a show for you.
From smartless media, campsite media, and big money players comes Crimeless.
Join me, Josh Dean, investigative journalist.
And me, Rory Scovel comedian, as we celebrate the amazing creativity of the world's dumbest criminals.
We'll look into some of the silliest ways folks have broken the laws.
Honestly, it feels more like a high-level prank than a crime.
Who catfishes a city?
And meets some memorable antiheroes.
There are thousands of angry, horny monkeys.
Clap if you think she's a witch.
And it freaks you out.
He has x-ray vision.
How could I not follow him?
Honestly, I gotta follow him.
He can see right through me.
Listen to Crimeless on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Dad had the strong belief that the devil was attacking us.
Two brothers, one devout household, two radically different paths.
Gabe Ortiz became one of the highest-ranking law enforcement officers in Texas.
32 years total law enforcement experience.
But his brother Larry, he stayed behind and built an entirely different legacy.
He was the head of this gang, and nobody was going to tell him what to do.
You're going to push that line for the cause took us under his wing and showed us the game, as they call it.
When Larry is murdered, Gabe is forced to confront the past he tried to leave behind and uncover secrets he never saw coming.
My dad had a whole other life that we never knew about.
Like, my mom started screaming my dad's name, and I just heard one gunshot.
The Brothers Ortiz is a gripping true story about faith, family and how two lives can drift so far apart and collide in the most devastating way.
Listen to The Brothers Ortiz on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Who would you call if the unthinkable happened?
I just fell and started screaming.
If you lost someone you loved in the most horrific way.
I said to y'all 22 times.
The police, right?
But what if the person you're supposed to go to for help is the one you're the most afraid of?
This dude is the devil.
He's a snake.
He'll hurt you.
I got you, I got you, I got you.
I'm Nikki Richardson, and this is The Girlfriends Untouchable.
Detective Roger Golubsky spent decades intimidating and sexually abusing Black women across Kansas City, using his police badge to scare them into silence.
This is the story of a detective who seemed above the law until we came together to take him down.
I told Roger Golubsky, I said, you're going to see my face till the day that you die.
Listen to The Girlfriends Untouchable on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
But there was no link.
There was no business plan.
It's not his fault.
I hadn't programmed Kyle to be able to do that yet.
My name is Evan Ratliff.
I decided to create Kyle, my AI co-founder, after hearing a lot of stuff like this from OpenAI CEO, Sam Aldman
There's this betting pool for the first year that there's a one-person billion-dollar company which would have been unimaginable without AI, and now it will happen.
I got to thinking, could I be that one person?
I'd made AI agents before for my award-winning podcast, Shell Game.
This season on Shell Game.
I'm trying to build a real company with a real product, run by fake people.
Oh, hey, Evan.
Good to have you join us.
I found some really interesting data on adoption rates for AI agents in small to medium businesses.
Listen to Shell Game on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Okay, welcome back.
Let's listen to some further questions from you guys, our listeners, starting with this next one.
Hey Gemma, this is a note from London, England.
Very excited to have you in the city soon.
Just really love your podcast and it really, really resonates with so many of my friends and me, especially when we've hit this weird late 20s era, struggling post-COVID and trying to navigate our way through this strange time.
One dilemma I had that I'm really struggling with is Every year, I think that I'm going to get closer to figuring it all out, quote unquote, with my career, with relationships, with money, with what I want to do.
And the older I get, the more and more I'm actually feeling like I know less and less.
I don't know what I'm doing.
I'm struggling to save money because I'm torn between living in a city that's cool versus a saving for a house.
I don't know whether to travel.
I don't like my job.
I feel so confused and lost and I'd just like to ask do you think we ever figure it all out, and what is the best course of action when you genuinely don't know which path in front of you is the right one to take?
Thank you.
Whoa, big questions.
Quite simply, no, I don't think we figure it all out.
I also have this deep philosophy that we're not meant to.
That when we stop striving, what's the point of being here?
What's the point of inhabiting this world and learning more?
To To have all the solutions and to know why it all happens and to have it all figured out and to have the perfect plan and for that plan to be executed kind of takes all of the fun out of it.
Obviously, life's peaks and troughs can be really, really tough sometimes and like a real freaking struggle.
And I'm sure this advice or this perspective is maybe not the one some of you want to hear, but...
And really like this is life.
Life is actually not the times when it's all going well.
It's the times that you struggle and you push through and you have to just trust your instinct and trust your desires and just kind of get some battle scars from it all.
That's really the proof that you are living.
It's definitely difficult when you're like, there's a million fires going right now.
Which one do I address first?
I think you just have to ride the wave and just break it down one at a time.
You hate your job.
You know what?
That can be your focus for six months.
Let's get this part of life feeling good for now.
And maybe that will change.
But just Making sure that you are taking deliberate actions towards the areas where you feel dissatisfaction is really important, so that you don't just feel at the behest of your circumstances.
What was the second part of that question as well?
Like, how do you know when to make the what decision to make?
What I always go with because again there's no right answer is I just think about which one I'm going to regret not doing the most.
You know what is the thing?
That I'm maybe going to turn around and 70 80, God willing, and be like God.
I wish I had done that.
Can I see myself talking about this opportunity I have now like that?
Can I see myself not traveling and having that thought?
Can I see myself not staying in the city a little bit longer and having that thought?
Whichever one I have the most gut reaction of maybe future regret towards is the one I know that I should do.
And you can do pro cons list with that as well.
But part of like figuring life out as much as you can or making right decisions, it's just getting really clear on what your gut is telling you and really clear on what your values are.
What you really want to see happen in your life in the next five years and what is going to be aligned with that versus what is going to detract from that.
One more exercise I do that I find really helpful is one of my friends actually told me about this and I even put it in my book, which is don't imagine everything going right.
Don't imagine your dream life.
Imagine a day in your life in 10, 15 years that's a really happy day.
And what are you doing?
Who are you seeing?
Who are you around?
Who do you have dinner with?
What kind of bed sheets do you wake up on?
In what neighbourhood?
What about that makes you so happy?
What about that future life makes you happy?
How can you bring that into your life now?
Not just in terms of decisions to get you to that future, but in terms of, just like daily feelings of joy.
What can you do right now to make this a great moment that you'll appreciate, even if it's not exactly where you want to be yet?
So yeah, that is my advice for that lovely listener.
And also thank you for welcoming me to London.
I should have addressed that.
I really appreciate that.
Hopefully I get to meet you at an event soon and we can talk more about it.
I feel like I can say a lot more.
All right, our next question.
Here we go.
Hi Gemma.
So my dilemma is how do you deal with evolving friendships and how do you end a friendship in your 20s?
So I have a friend that I've known for many, many years and we were very, very close for a very long time.
But over the past couple years there's been a build-up of some things that have made me think that this is a friendship that no longer serves me, And it's kind of been a combination of the way I've been treated in a few different situations and also the fact that we are leading very different lives from each other.
And a lot of the decisions she makes go against my values and things that I really believe in as a person, and so, for that reason, I've been finding it hard to still be friends with her.
And anyway, without going into too much detail, this is a friendship that I no longer want in my life, and I'm not really sure how to end it.
I have brought up with her a little bit about how I don't agree with some of the things that she's done.
And I've asked her not to speak to me about some of the stuff that she's doing, because it makes me uncomfortable.
And she's been fine about that.
But she's also been quite resistant to any suggestion that hey, maybe we're very different people than we were when we became friends.
So how do I kind of move forward?
Okay, this is a common dilemma and, I'm going to be completely honest, it is one that I have definitely had before and I think I've done the wrong thing.
So, knowing that, I'm going to hopefully give you some advice on how to do the right thing.
Firstly, the care that you have for your friend, despite the fact that you don't want to be friends with her anymore, is really beautiful and shows that you actually probably deserve much better friends.
The fact that you're wanting to do this with kindness and with love is just a really big, huge testament to your character.
So I want you to know that just to get that clear off the bat.
I'm hearing that you've tried to have these conversations before.
And I think that if you are truly committed and truly in your mind like we are not going to be friends anymore,
You need to sit this friend down and have a huge heart to heart.
I have had friendships in the past not to go into too much detail because I still have a lot of respect for these people but that just haven't worked because we were different people.
And because we, our characters, just weren't aligned, our values weren't aligned, doesn't mean they were bad, doesn't mean they were awful.
There were things they did that hurt me, that I didn't agree with, and probably things that I did as well.
The biggest regret I have is that I didn't have the I don't know courage grace knowledge, foresight to have a sit down conversation with that person and say our friendship has meant so much to me and I really do love you and I care about you.
Almost like a breakup.
But, like you know, our time has come.
Our time has come to move on and I hope you can understand it.
And here are my reasons.
And here's your space to talk about maybe probably some of your grievances or some of your reasons.
But here's my love on a platter.
Take it with you.
You'll always have it.
It's yours to keep, but we need to find a new direction.
So I think writing down what's really driving this feeling, having the courage to have a sit-down chat with her, knowing that you might get a terrible bad reaction, but also knowing that later down the line I think she'll probably appreciate the closure is super important.
I think...
And if that's not what you want to do and if there's something else another, different way you want to approach it?
Just think if I was in her shoes, how would I want the situation to be approached?
If I because it sounds like she probably doesn't know that this is coming, but like if I had this huge character flaw or this part about me that you know, I wasn't really ready to address and it was going to cost me a friendship, how would I want somebody to approach that in the most honest kind, gentle way?
And that's a just that's a question you have to answer for yourself, but That is the way that you should do it.
Good luck.
You sound like a genuinely lovely person.
And I'm really sorry that the friendship has ended up this way, but it is unfortunately a part of life and you are handling it with grace.
So that's the best we can do.
Okay, next question.
Hi, Gemma.
So, in order for me to ask my question, I just want to give a little bit of background, information and context.
I am 25.
I am married.
I'm in my final year of pursuing a degree in psychology.
I want to pursue a master's.
I'm very fulfilled in my hobbies and my friendships and the plans that I have for my life.
However, my husband and I live in a different country, in a different time zone, than our family and majority of our friends.
And even with all of this and the separation and distance, and I still have tremendous eldest daughter guilt.
A lot of times it still feels like some comments or some jabs about being far away, not being present for certain things, not completely pursuing the ideas that my parents had for me in my life.
I still feel pressured even though I'm so far away.
And I was just hoping that you have any advice that you can give me on this.
I loved your episode about how to feel like yourself again and how to stop seeking external validation.
But I was just wondering if you have any practical advice for me.
I love your podcast.
Sincerely, a South African that just wants to be a dang psychologist one day.
Oh my gosh.
I love, firstly, I love your accent.
Anytime I hear a South African accent, it always like is so interesting and like crispy to me.
Like, I don't know.
I love a South African accent.
So what a joy to listen to your question.
Elder's daughter guilt. is real and I have experienced it.
And so have many of my eldest daughter friends.
This is actually a really important stage in life that you would know somebody studying psychology, that everybody has to go through, of like what's the priority?
Me or the family.
Individual preferences or obligation.
The collective or my own personal kind of ambitions and goals.
And...
Based on our conditioning, especially as women and eldest daughters can feel like choosing any of the left hand options, any of the individual preference, passion like, personal ambition, options like means that you are selfish and means that you are a bad daughter and a bad sister and a bad friend and whatever.
And that is just like complete bullcrap.
Like it's just not true.
Life is something that yes, you need to live within community and you want to be close to family and friends, but is actually completely about you and completely about what you are really striving to do and what you really want to do.
You, I think, also need to do this for the younger you and also the future you who is really betting on you having the courage to just stick with what you want to do and just deal with maybe some of the criticism and some of the disappointment a little bit longer, to realize a dream and also to realize a future way of living where there will be less guilt about this.
You will be more discerning and more able to make the decisions that are best for you.
And hopefully your family will understand.
You know, families always say like, we just want you to be happy.
Sometimes it can feel like they don't really, but I think that they do.
And just being able to have that conversation with your friends and with your family, just being like I love you guys.
I miss you, but I have to do this for me, and finding ways to stay in touch with them so they still feel a part of your life and not neglected, is super, super important.
Also, it sounds like the time will come when you can move back closer to your family and when you will be neighborly and you will be close to them.
And perhaps you're going to miss this time quite a lot and you're going to wish that you had seen it out to its full potential.
I definitely know, like when the time is right, the time is right and you will sense it and you will feel it.
And cutting any chapter short early for this expectations or what you think other people want from you or for factors beyond your own deep desire, might leave you with a little bit of regret and wishing that you had lived out the rest of that period and feeling like the door kind of closed a little bit too early and you're a little bit discombobulated.
So I think you're making a great choice by just finishing out, closing out this chapter.
Make sure that you just like Keep the communication lines open with family, that like you love them and you care about them, and maybe this is in your future plans.
But like right now you need to do this for you and recognize that it's not selfish.
It's actually incredibly unselfish for yourself and for future generations, and if you want to have kids too,
Really learn and reinforce and especially you as a psychologist as well to know that making decisions that are best for you is actually entirely part of life's plan and entirely normal and a really important part of life the developmental process that you learn how to do this and how to live beyond the expectations that others have for you.
So I hope that advice is helpful.
And yeah, I could listen to your South African accent all day.
There's something about it.
I can't describe it.
It just does something like crunchy and fun to my mind.
So best of luck.
Okay, we have time for one final question for our listener episode.
Here it is.
Hi, I'm so excited that you're doing this segment again.
So I am a 26 year old female living in the.
I'm looking at moving in with my partner, and something that scares me so much is like finally moving away from home.
And I know not every 20 something year old has that fear.
A lot of people just kind of jump and go.
But I'm wondering what the psychology or if there's any psychology behind that, like why certain people are scared to move away from home and why certain people just can't wait to move away from home.
I'm curious to hear your thoughts and hope this helps other people that might be feeling the same way.
I actually think this is the best question to end on.
Like I love that we had that parallel of somebody who's like oh, I'm living away and I feel kind of guilty.
And then somebody being like, oh, I really want to move, but I don't know how to process that.
Like, and then somebody who has moved back, like, that's kind of a coincidence that that happened.
I didn't realize that I like chose this theme of like it's moving, and family, which is something that's heavy on my mind.
But anyways, thank you for dialing in.
Thank you for leaving a call.
Another beautiful voice.
There is an explanation for this and it's It's rather complex, but also simple, and I think it really comes down to how we view risk and our tolerance for uncertainty and our tolerance for new, novel experiences.
So each of us basically has a risk profile of how tolerant, how comfortable we feel with things that are scary and things that are new.
We have risk loving, risk averse, risk neutral.
Risk loving.
That describes the kind of person you talked about, who was like cool, I turned 17, I'm turned 18, I'm out of here.
I don't have a plan.
I don't even have a plane ticket.
I don't even have a suitcase, but I know I want to go somewhere.
These are the people who are like, like you just, I admire them so much.
Like they're always on the road.
They're always ready to make new choices.
One of my friends, Gracie is like that.
And I just think she's so cool.
It's not who I am.
I think I'm more risk neutral.
I can kind of take it or leave it.
And it sounds like you might be a little bit risk averse in this situation.
The fear factor, and you know some of the discomfort of change just weighs on you a little bit more heavy.
There's nothing wrong with that.
It's actually completely normal.
That's just how you are.
And you're probably trying to be a bit more conscious and think about this a little bit more and make sure that's the right decision.
And I think that that's actually a sign that it is the fact that you are thinking about it so deeply, the fact that you are so invested in ensuring that you know this is going to work out with your partner is beautiful.
I'm not going to lie and say that moving away from your family is going to be necessarily the easiest thing in the world, especially since you've been there for so long, like 20 something years.
It might not be better.
It's just going to be different.
And it's just going to be an incredible time.
Don't focus so much on the downsides.
Really keep your vision on the positives stocking your pantry, getting to decorate your home with the person that you love, getting to be naked on your couch whenever you want to be, getting to just make it your own and make it like You know how.
Your parents created a great home for you and one that you love, and being able to create that for yourself and for you and your partner's little family.
And if you get pets and when friends come over, like it's just such a beautiful young adult feeling that I'm so excited for you to have.
When there are hard times, just make sure you have rituals that maybe tie you back to the comforts that you really enjoyed about living with your family and that were really amazing about being close to them.
Make sure you've got those recipes for those home-cooked meals so that you can make that for you even, you know, miles away.
Make that for yourself, even miles away, and Bring something special from home.
Maybe it's like a duvet.
Maybe it's like a blanket, a rug, a couple of photos.
Integrate, like this old life with this new life that you're entering into, because it is all interconnected.
And this is just the next iteration and evolution of you as a person.
And so much growth is going to happen.
It's going to be amazing.
Also living with your partner is a blast.
Like it's like having a sleepover every night.
And I feel like in the first three months you're going to be just like so excited and over the moon that you're not going to realize that you're missing anybody or that you're missing anything.
So I just keep saying good luck, but I really mean it to all of you.
Like, good luck.
You guys are just so amazing, wonderful and beautiful and just ask such beautiful, emotionally intelligent earnest, fabulous questions.
So i appreciate you guys going to the effort to want to be a part of the show and for being the best guest that i ever get the chance to have.
You guys are such good guests.
I don't know how many questions we answered all eight, nine of you and all the others of you who also submitted questions.
Thank you so much.
If you have any advice for any of these people, drop it in the comments below.
If you've listened this far.
If you have a further question, maybe I'll spend some time answering questions in the comments, but also keep the advice going.
If you have experience with any of these things, what tips would you give these people?
Make sure as well that you are following us on instagram at that psychology podcast, if you want to see more behind the scenes stuff, if you want to be able to contribute to future episodes like this, that is where you are going to find out about it.
But until next time, stay safe, be kind, be gentle to yourself and thank you for listening.
We will talk very, very soon.
I'm investigative journalist Melissa Jeltsin.
My new podcast What Happened in Nashville tells the story of an IVF clinic's catastrophic collapse and the patients who banded together in the chaos that followed.
It doesn't matter how much I fight.
It doesn't matter how much I cry over all of this.
It doesn't matter how much justice we get.
None of it's going to get me pregnant.
Listen to What Happened in Nashville on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Have you ever listened to those true crime shows and found yourself with more questions than answers?
Who catfishes a city?
Is it even safe to snort human remains?
Is that the plot of Footloose?
I'm comedian Rory Scovel and I'm here to tell you Josh Dean and I have a new podcast that celebrates the amazing creativity of the world's dumbest criminals.
It's called Crimeless, a true crime comedy podcast.
Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Who would you call if the unthinkable happened?
My sister was shot 22 times.
A police officer, right?
But what do you do when the monster is the man in blue?
This dude is the devil.
He'll hurt you.
This is the story of a detective who thought he was above the law until we came together to take him down.
I said, you're going to see my face till the day that you die.
I got you, I got you, I got you.
Listen to The Girlfriends Untouchable on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
I know he has a reputation, but it's going to catch up to him.
Gabe Ortiz is a cop.
His brother Larry, a mystery Gabe didn't want to solve until it was too late.
He was the head of this gang.
You're going to push that line for the cause.
Took us under his wing and showed us the game, as they call it.
When Larry's killed, Gabe must untangle a dangerous past, one that could destroy everything he thought he knew.
Listen to The Brothers Ortiz on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Hi Kyle, could you draw up a quick document with the basic business plan, just one page, as a Google Doc and send me the link?
Thanks.
Hey, just finished drawing up that quick one-page business plan for you.
Here's the link.
But there was no link.
There was no business plan.
I hadn't programmed Kyle to be able to do that yet.
I'm Evan Ratliff, here with a story of entrepreneurship in the AI age.
Listen as I attempt to build a real startup run by fake people.
Check out the second season of my podcast Shell Game on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
This is an iHeart podcast.
Guaranteed human.
