Hear ye, hear ye, the story pirates are announcing the coming of season 7 of their long heralded podcast.
And did you know that we also have a brand new podcast that's hosted by the one and only Nimini and executive produced by Questlove?
We're thrilled to share with you today the very first episode of historical records coming up right after a few words for the Grown Ups.
Hey Grown Ups, season 7 of the Story Pirates podcast is right around the corner and it's time for your kids to send us their own stories.
But maybe they don't know what to write about?
Luckily, Story Pirates is partnering this season with The Week Jr., an incredible magazine that kids can't wait to read.
Every issue of The Week Jr.
has a section called Photos of the Week that is full of photos that are great to tell an imaginative story about.
Grown Ups, as part of our partnership, you can get 6 free issues of The Week Jr.
for your family delivered right to your mailbox by going to theweekjr .com slash Story Pirates.
And don't forget, the Story Pirates Amazing Adventure Tour continues October 5th and 6th with shows in Connecticut and New Hampshire.
You can find tickets at storypirates .com slash live!
Now back to the show.
I've been told it has no reactive imagination.
It makes me feel cozy.
Little pen and paper have arrived.
Don't worry about the bad stuff, just think about positive vibes.
They wrote most of my stories for fun.
There's so much out there that we'll probably never know.
The Story Pirates. Welcome back to the Story Pirates podcast.
I'm Lee and guess what?
Season 7 of the Story Pirates podcast is back on October 17th.
That's only a couple weeks away!
I know! I'm excited too!
We have so many brand new songs and stories for you, of course all based on stories written by kids from around the country, nay, around the world.
And here's what I'm really excited about.
After several seasons of going literally every single place imaginable, space, under the ocean, the center of the earth, New York City, the Story Pirates are going back to our roots.
That's right, we're headed back onto the open seas.
Trust the Story Pirates out on the open ocean doing normal things that seem weird and weird things that seem normal.
This season is going to be the absolute best and I cannot wait for you to hear it.
So next week we'll be dropping the trailer for season 7, so get ready for that!
And in the meantime, I want to share with you something super special.
You may have heard, but the Story Pirates have another brand new show.
It's called historical records and it's hosted by none other than Nimini and here's what the show's about.
You see, Nimini, when she's not on the Story Pirates ship, happens to operate a top secret lab slash underground bunker where she conducts highly experimental experiments combining history and hip hop.
Yeah, she's investigating some of the most interesting people in history, people like Claudette Colvin, who sparked a major part of the civil rights movement or Keith Herring, an artist who transformed New York City, subways and streets, or Josh Gibson, one of the greatest baseball power hitters of all
time, and she turns those stories into a brand new hip hop track.
So if you like hip hop, or history, or you like Nimini, you are going to want to check out this show.
It's fun and it's funny and it's exciting and honestly it's kind of inspirational.
I really hope you listen because we are actually really, really proud of this show and you might just hear some performances from me and Peter on it too.
And oh, did I mention that we worked with Questlove on this show?
Pretty cool, right?
If you don't know who Questlove is, just ask a grownup or like a, I don't know, a cool uncle or something.
Anyway, here's the very first episode of historical records and if you like it, grownups, you can find more episodes wherever you listen to podcasts by searching historical records or by going to storypirates .com slash historical records.
And while you're there, think about subscribing and leaving a rating or leaving a review.
We really want people to hear this show and doing any of those things helps make that happen.
So thank you so much for supporting us and all the awesome things that we are trying out there in the world.
Plus, if you like Storybirates, we just think you're going to love historical records.
So here's episode one.
Enjoy! Hold tight and we should be there any second.
Where is it? Oh, I know it's here somewhere in this huge and uninviting desert.
Oh wait! There's a normal cactus!
Hard left of the normal cactus!
Ha ha! We're here! My mostly underground top secret laboratory!
I mean, nothing to say here in this big empty desert.
Certainly not a highly secure state of the art door.
Hello, Niminy. Hello, door.
Please enter the password.
Yes, the password that I definitely remember.
Don't worry everybody.
I know the password.
It's baklova. Incorrect.
Okay. Baguette. Incorrect.
Well, I know it's something delicious that starts with the letter B.
How about banh mi? Book choice.
Blench, borscht, bratwurst with greased pizza, buttered bivouille, banana bread, bushberry, black beanstalka -noosh.
Correct. Got it. Wait, which one was it?
Entry granted. I'll figure it out next time.
It, it, it, it, it, historical records.
You are now listening to...
historical records.
To make history, you got to have struggle.
To make history, you got to show poise.
Cannot be quiet, loud as a riot.
To make history, you gotta make some noise.
Well, listeners, we're in.
Let's try this again.
Hello. I am Niminy.
Welcome to my secret laboratory, a place where I am conducting highly experimental experiments turning history into hip -hop.
You see, I study historical records so I can drop historical records.
Heh heh heh. Get it?
And today's episode is about an incredible woman who was the mother of investigative journalism and a trailblazing muckraker who toppled monopolies, Ida Tarbell.
Much more on that later, but first, I want to give you a tour of my lab.
This place has everything a history and hip -hop loving podcast host could possibly need.
Oh, like this roof.
This is the vocal booth echo chamber, in case you're making music and want to say something.
Really important! Really important, important!
Niminies cool! Niminies make cool!
Aww, echo booth. The echo booth is also great for personal affirmations.
And over here in this room is where I keep all the musical notes.
Ooh! Ooh! A little disorganized at the moment.
But sometimes you can find the notes you need.
Ooh, that was nice.
Well, let's keep walking.
I'll clean that up later.
Ooh! Excuse me. Oh, this next room is where my hype man hangs out.
Just wait till you see how fired up this guy is.
Huh? Party people say what?
Huh, sorry? You're hired to hype people up not to be asleep.
Sorry, Niminy. You're better than this, Phil.
You know what? My bad!
My bad! That was Phil's bad!
Ha ha! Now we're talking Phil keep it hype!
Niminy! Okay, continuing the tour.
This state of the art studio filled with raccoons playing drums is where I make the beats.
Well, it's where the raccoons make the beats.
How are the beats coming, Tina?
Ooh, that's not good.
You think we'll still hit the deadline?
But Tina. I need a sick beat in like 15 minutes.
I have some amazing rappers and singers coming to lay down a track.
Oh, get it done. Sorry, listeners.
If there's one thing raccoons do not like, it's deadlines.
Anyway, we're about to enter the history portion of the tour, and things are going to get a little personal because the first room contains my personal history.
See? Here are my baby clothes, my old baseball uniforms.
Oh, look! A picture of me starring in Hamlet!
Mmm, oh, Niminy. Look at you being to thine own self true.
Wait, what is this?
It's a tape labeled Niminy's first rap ever.
Wait, let's listen.
Hello, everyone. Let me introduce me.
My name means Charming, I am Niminy.
I like hip -hop, as you can plainly see, but my favorite subject is history.
Wait, what? My first rap was about history and hip -hop?
I guess it's always been my destiny to combine my two great passions into one killer podcast.
Okay, listeners. I normally would not recommend running from your past, but we're short on time, so let's keep moving.
Now, I don't want to over -hype it, but this next room is incredible because it every history book that has ever been written.
It's like the internet, but nicer.
This is the historical records library.
As you can see, it's giant, but don't worry.
You can get to any book using this incredibly fast and elaborate train track and trolley system that I built.
Watch. Hold on tight.
Whoa! And we're off!
First, over here, we have cultural history.
And over there, that's the history of medicine.
And up in those bleachers, we got sports history.
And somewhere around here is history's mysteries.
Not sure where exactly.
Oh, and down in that cave is early human history.
And way up at the top is the history of space exploration.
And that's just a taste of what the library has to offer.
It's pretty amazing, I know.
And making it even cooler is the fact that I hired two historians who now live here in the library.
They helped break down the history, so I can't break down the history.
Although sometimes the historians can be a little hard to find because the library is so huge.
Hi, Nemini. How long have you been sitting in this trolley car?
The entire time. I just didn't want to interrupt you because you're really on a roll.
Well, even though I'd prefer you never sneak up on me like that, I must admit, your timing is impeccable.
Let me guess, you're ready to learn about Ida Tarbell?
Oh, how did you know?
As always, I did my research.
Welly, if I'm going to make a killer track that encapsulates Ida Tarbell's whole life, no big deal at all.
What do we need to know about Ida Tarbell?
Well, Nemini, there is a lot to know about Ida Tarbell, but the main most important thing is that she was a writer and a journalist who basically invented investigative journalism in the United States.
OK, now hold on time.
Wait, what what's happening?
I'm taking you to the other side of the library, to the history simulator.
Gotcha. Now, obviously, I know what investigative journalism is, but for those who don't, what is investigative journalism?
OK, OK, so investigative journalism is when a journalist chooses a topic, which is usually something sort of scandalous, like a serious crime or political corruption or shady business deals.
Right, explosion corruption, simple.
Oh, and they spend months or sometimes even years doing all sorts of research in order to find facts that can expose the truth.
And the reason they're doing all of this is because they want to create change.
Oh, excellent, we're here.
Whoa. This is the history simulator?
It looks like a glowing alien cocoon?
You built this yourself, Lee?
Of course not. I'm a historian, not a scientist.
I had the raccoons do it.
Lee, that's why they're running behind on making the beads.
And why so much of this machine seems to be made of garbage?
Yeah, trying to debris through your nose.
But trust me, this is gonna be worth it.
Can you hit that big red button?
The one that says time travel with two exclamation points?
That's the one. I would love to.
Here we go. Whoa. Welcome to the Gilded Age.
Specifically the year 1904.
Whose house are we in?
Ida Tarbells, of course.
Have a seat. Wow, these old timey armchairs are comfortable.
Why are all those magazines on the coffee table ripped up?
That is this month's issue of McClure's magazine.
It's supposed to be a reliable source of news, but news flash, it's not.
It's totally exaggerated, sensationalized, and made to be as melodramatic as possible just to sell newspapers.
That doesn't seem good.
That's because it's not.
But that is about to change.
This new group of journalists, these muckrakers, as they call them, led by Ida Tarbell, are using the power of the pen to tell the truth.
And tonight, right here, Ida will put the finishing touches on the final installment of her 19 -part epic series that exposes the corruption and unethical practices behind one of the largest and most powerful businesses of our time, the Standard Oil Company.
Ida Tarbell is going up against Standard Oil?
Why was she doing that?
Like, what was their deal?
Who ran Standard Oil, and why were they so bad?
Great questions, let's go check it out.
Hit the button. Oh, I love buttons.
Wow, this is a fancy office.
You bet it is. Welcome to Standard Oil, a company that became a monopoly.
Have you heard that word before?
Yes, oh, I love that game.
No, no, not the game.
A company has a monopoly when they pretty much wipe out all their competition in whatever it is they're selling.
And that's bad? Well, it's good for them, but bad for everyone else for a lot of reasons.
Like what? Well, for example, a company with no competitors can charge people whatever price they want.
And with that kind of power, how much do you think they're gonna charge?
A whole lot. That's what I would do.
Well, if you did that, you might end up like John D.
Rockefeller, the owner of this office, the person who ran Standard Oil, and by far the richest American to ever live.
Hmm, rich fill their pockets while the poor getting filled with rage.
Must live in life day to day, in the Gilded Age.
Precisely. Okay, so we've got Ida Tarbo, this normal woman who just invented investigative journalism on one side of the coin.
And on the other side, we've got this rich billionaire, John D.
Rockefeller, the owner of Standard Oil.
How the heck is Ida Tarbo gonna take down such a huge tycoon?
Let's go see. Ooh, does that mean I can press the button again?
Go for it. Button time!
Oh! Whoa! Montage alert!
Look at Ida traveling all around the country!
What's she doing? Research!
She spent years traveling around the country interviewing anyone who would talk to her.
Excuse me, ma 'am. I'm Ida Tarbell with McClure's Magazine.
I wonder if I might ask you some questions.
And she spent hours and hours in my favorite place, the library, digging through hundreds and even thousands of documents in order to find evidence of John D.
Rockefeller's wrongdoing.
Ahem. The library is closing, Miss Tarbell.
Sorry, I just need to finish reading this one document.
Huh, I see. Ida as a writer was tenacious, audacious.
Her appetite for research was voracious, let's face it.
Then all of her writing was published in McClure's Magazine.
The articles were so popular that they were turned into an even more popular book.
All this attention on Rockefeller's greedy business dealings made it all the way to, wait for it, the Supreme Court of the United States, only the highest court in the whole land.
And what did they decide?
They found that Standard Oil was, in fact, an illegal monopoly.
Yes, Ida did! And they ordered that Standard Oil be broken up into, get this, 34 different companies.
Wow, Rockefeller got busted!
He sure did. In fact, trust -busting is what everyone called breaking up greedy companies like Standard Oil.
And that is the end of our history simulation.
Woo! Wow, I'm inspired, Lee.
With a clear objective and a belief in yourself, you can really accomplish anything you wanna do, huh?
I think you phrased that really beautifully.
In fact, can I share one of my favorite things that Ida Tarbell ever said?
Please do. She said, imagination is the only key to the future.
Without it, none exists.
With it, all things are possible.
Oh, that is beautiful.
Thank you so much, Lee, for all this information.
And now, please excuse me, I have to take all this incredible historical knowledge and turn it into an incredible historical record.
I'm pretty sure I have a few amazing musicians waiting for me in the studio.
Also, I gotta check in on the raccoons.
Back into the trolley.
Wait, no, no, no, you didn't take any notes.
Are you sure you're gonna remember all that info?
There's only one way to find out.
Okay, listeners, it is finally time for our first experiment.
Let's turn this piece of history into an epic show -stopping song for the ages.
And here we are. Hello, raccoons.
Hey Tina, you got that beat ready?
Oh, I knew you'd pull it off.
And look, today's guest vocalists, Monziah and Karlie Schiraki are already in the booth.
Seems like we are ready to make a historical record.
Let's see what we got.
Hit it. This is the story of me, Ida Tarbell.
And me, John D. Rockefeller.
And me, a narrator.
Let's begin, shall we?
Open your mind and imagine a time where inequality is high in poverty.
I'm the Rod, which is haunted by a small core group.
Monopoly not on the game board, they be up inside the boardroom.
And the newspapers who supposedly mad are only interested in profiting the news is an ad.
Rich fill the pockets while the poor gettin' filled with rage.
That's living life day to day in the Gilded Age.
Turn of the century, 1901.
The USA's a power but in trouble in the long run.
Journalism, yellow, and the wealth control by fellas.
Just like John D. Rockefeller, man, the people need a truth teller.
Someone sell her an extra special writer with the qualities of truth and perseverance up inside her.
A fighter for the weak, too, the stronger, then the brighter.
Last name Tarbell, first name Ida.
I could die, will. Lifting up the meek like a barbell.
I could die, will. Insuring off an age of systems, I, will.
I could die, will. Breaking all the mucks, she's a journalistic marvel.
I could die, will. But make sure I always stay impartial.
When I was a youth, my dad was part of a crew of small oil well producers using rail to move crude until a dude named Rockefeller came through and pulled a coo.
Made a truce with the trains and soon the crew, it was screwed.
Well, I was mad but had no way to make comeuppance just a young girl in the lower class.
Well, I was mailin' up her crust.
She had to take the punches, wait with baited breath and other trust.
Study hard and bide my time till I could throw my uppercut.
Listen, meanwhile, me, John D.
I. B. came a true titan of the industry.
Some called him Robert Barron because he swindled to a mass of cheese.
Oh, but most were taken in by my big fortune and my charities.
Yes, my foil founded Standard Oil and soon he had more money than the royals.
While I toil in Paris, penning hot pieces to no acclaim at this point, barely anybody out there even knew the name.
I could die, will. Rifting up the meek like a bar, will.
I could die, will. Insuring off an age of systems, I, will.
I could die, will. Raking all the muck, she's a journalistic marvel.
I could die, will. But making sure I always stay impartial.
Ida as a writer was tenacious, audacious.
Her appetite for research was voracious, basic.
Only a matter in time before she set her vast, investigative skills on demand from her past.
John Rockefeller, who do my dad back in the day, became the subject of my magazine's next expose.
Oh, we got ourselves a showdown, now you could call it high news.
Writer with the grudge?
First the big budget tycoon.
Tonight is on the case, learning anything she can learn.
Documents, photographs.
I even talked to interns.
The biggest breaker ride when she interviewed John Number Two.
Who told me everything.
You talked to Henry.
Oh, that's bad news.
A series came in nineteen parts of Standard Oil's history.
A backroom deal's corruption fraud had finally solved the mystery.
Of how John Deed a fraud, a dad I got revenge from my line and taught the world the name of the woman on the byline.
Living out the league like a barbell.
Ensuring all financial systems are well.
Raising all the mucks, she's a journalistic marvel.
But making sure I always stay impartial.
Results wasn't led to justice.
The laws got more robust than the Sherman Act I passed.
And it busted all the trust up.
People's trust in journalists adjusted.
And the huckster, Rockefeller, lost his luster.
That's true. I do not believe.
Rifting up the meek like a barbell.
I do not believe. Taking down the plurocratic cartel.
No fair. I do not believe.
Raking all the mucks, she's a journalistic marvel.
I do not believe. I guess I wasn't always so impartial.
Yeah, yeah, she really was not that impartial at all.
I'm the narrator. I'm saying that she was not impartial.
Yeah, she really did.
She really didn't take you down, bro.
Can we agree you had it coming, though?
Yeah, I was corrupt.
I didn't corrupt things.
I, of course, had it coming.
I should be in jail forever.
Yeah, no, of course, Ida.
I'm 100 % agree with you, Ida.
I had it coming. We'll be right back after a few words for The Grown Ups.
Hey, Grown Ups. Season 7 of The Story Pirates podcast is right around the corner.
And it's time for your kids to send us their own stories.
But maybe they don't know what to write about.
Luckily, Story Pirates is partnering this season with The Week Jr., an incredible magazine that kids can't wait to read.
Every issue of The Week Jr.
has a section called Photos of the Week that is full of photos that are great to tell an imaginative story about.
Grown Ups, as part of our partnership, you can get six free issues of The Week Jr.
for your family delivered right to your mailbox by going to theweekjr .com slash Story Pirates.
And don't forget, The Story Pirates' amazing adventure tour continues October 5th and 6th with shows in Connecticut and New Hampshire.
You can find tickets at storypirates .com slash live.
Now, back to the show.
Yes! What a jam. Tina, perhaps we've been.
Mm, you pulled it off.
Meow, meow, meow. And Phil, the height man.
I know you didn't do anything on that song, but I could feel your positive energy.
I am super supportive!
Supportive, supportive!
Oh, my alarm, that means I'm late for today's interview.
Nimine, you're gonna interview me?
Phil, the height man?
Oh, no, Phil, I'm not interviewing you.
Oh, misunderstanding, woo!
Meow, meow, meow. No, no, no, Tina, I am not interviewing you either.
Meow, meow, meow, meow.
In fact, I'm not interviewing anyone.
I just get to listen in.
Well, what, please explain yourself.
Well, obviously, Ida Tarbell is amazing, but I thought it would be really cool for a kid to talk to a trailblazing writer of today.
Meow, meow, meow. Oh, thanks, Tina the Raccoon.
I thought it was a good idea, too.
So a 12 -year -old from Denver named Sophia is going to be interviewing the amazing writing legend Susan Orlean.
Susan is a staff writer for The New Yorker and the author of books like The Orchid Thief and On Animals.
Liberty, that's dope.
Ha ha! I know! And to make it even cooler, I am going to use never -before -seen technology to get to the interview.
Watch this. Uh, it looks like you're just logging into Zoom.
Phil, make it hype or something.
Come on. Oh, right, sorry.
She's using the internet like a wizard.
Boo! Look at that. Everyone is here.
Hi, Sophia. Hi, Susan.
Why don't we start with you both introducing yourselves.
Hi, I'm Sophia. I'm 12 years old.
I live in Denver, Colorado.
I use she -her pronouns, and I am very into writing.
I'm Susan Orlean. I'm a staff writer at The New Yorker Magazine, and I'm the author of eight books.
I've been writing ever since I could lift a pen, and I love it just as much now as I did many, many years ago when I began.
Susan, what do you find interesting about Ida Tarbell?
One of the things that I found really interesting about Ida besides the fact that she was pioneering as a woman was her interest in science.
It was that she brought the rigor of scientific analysis to journalism.
This was a time when journalism was really finding its way, and it wasn't necessarily guided by rational rules in any way, and proof and conjectures and supporting hypotheses are really all very central to what we think of today as journalism, but she was pretty pioneering.
I thought that was really cool.
But Sofia, it seems like Ida, despite being an important pioneer, isn't that well known?
Even though she was probably one of the founding people of investigative journalism, I could walk up to one of my friends, for example, and then go and ask them, oh yeah, have you ever heard of Ida Tarbell?
And they'd probably be like, who?
Sofia, do you have any questions for Susan about her writing or her career?
One of the things that I've noticed is whenever you're talking with someone, your quotes are just so specific, and you seem to have it all like you're actually there, but I was really wondering, how are you able to get all of these quotes, and what does it look like when you're writing an article or a book?
Do you have specific notebook that you use?
Or is some of this coming from memory?
What does that process look like?
I like using notebook, and there's a very particular kind of notebook that I love, and it's called a reporter's notebook.
It's long and skinny, and it was designed and interesting that we're speaking about a woman journalist.
It was designed for male journalists to be able to keep in their back pocket, because at that time, of course, women didn't wear pants with pockets.
Now, I rely a lot on my memory, for sure, but I don't trust my memory for quotes.
So, quotes I need to write down, but if I'm not able to get the quote down, then I paraphrase, and I think that's a very legitimate ethical way to include information that you don't have verbatim.
What you're saying to the reader is, this is the general overview of what they said, but I'm not pretending that I have it word by word.
Oh, this is great, y 'all.
Sophia, I think we have time for one more question for Susan.
I noticed that you are going to be, or you have written books on animals, and then you've also written books on people.
Do you prefer writing about animals, or do you prefer writing about people?
Ooh, that's a tough one.
None of my stories about animals are really exclusively about animals.
They really are about our interactions with animals.
They are a perfect way to examine the human condition.
I always think about writing about animals is a little like what it might be like if Martians arrived on earth and they didn't speak our language.
And we would be deeply interested in trying to write about them, but we would never have language as a way to learn about them.
So we have to learn about them using all of these other capacities for empathy and understanding.
And that is a lot of what makes writing about animals so challenging, but also really wonderfully rewarding.
Well, that's all the time we have.
Thank you, Sophia and Susan.
Bye, Susan. This was such a wonderful opportunity.
Sophia, I love talking to you.
Thank you so much, and I hope we'll be in touch.
Oh, how awesome was that interview?
Sophia had such amazing questions and really excellent insight.
And Susan Orlean? Well, I could listen to her talk about anything.
In fact, I think I might go read one of her books.
Ah, I'm doing it. I'm heading back to the library.
Listeners, thanks for joining in today and for going on a journey with me to learn about the great Ida Tarbel.
And a huge thanks to today's guests.
Susan, Sophia, Carly, and Mosiah.
Remember, parents and teachers, you can download a free activity related to today's episode by visiting storypirates .com slash historical records.
We'll be back next week with another episode, another song, and another hero.
After all, someone's gotta make more historical records.
Until then, remember, to make history, you gotta make some noise.
Bye! All right. Historical Records is produced in partnership with Story Pirate Studios, Questlove's 215 Entertainment, John Glickman, and I Heart Podcasts.
Executive produced by Amir Questlove -Thompson, John Glickman, Leo Retrie, and Benjamin Salga.
Executive produced for I Heart Podcasts by Noel Brown.
Producers for Story Pirate Studios are Isabelle Orecchio, Sam Bear, Eric Gerson, Andrew Miller, Leo Retrie, Peter McNerney, and Nimminy Ware.
Producers for 215 are Sean G., Brittany Benjamin, and Zara Zulman, hosted by Nimminy Ware.
Our head writer is Duke Doyle.
Our historians are Gabe Pacheco and Lee Polis.
Music Supervision for 215 by Strow Elliott.
Scoring and Music Supervision for Story Pirate Studios by Eric Gerson.
Sound Design and Mixing by Sam Bear at The Relic Room in New York City.
Song Mastering by Josh Han.
Theme Song by Dan Foster and Eric Gerson, and Produced by Eric Gerson.
Production Coordination by Isabelle Orecchio.
Production Management by Maggie Lee.
The Line Producer for Story Pirate Studios is Glynis Bralt.
PR for Story Pirate Studios is provided by Naomi Shaw.
Episode Artwork by Camilla Franklin.
This episode was written by Duke Doyle.
The song I Da Tarbell was written by Dan Foster and produced by Mosiah, with additional production by Eric Gerson.
Vocal Direction by Jack Mitchell and Eric Gerson.
Special Guests, Susan Orlean, Mosiah, Carly Sharaki, and our kid interviewer, Sophia.
This episode features performances by Eric Gerson, Peter McNerney, Lee Overtree, and Lee Polis.
