You're listening to Roundtable, I'm Yohang Lin, joined by Steve and Ding Hong, coming up.
What happens when a hidden gem goes viral?
The Ailau Mountains are suddenly buzzing with tourists, drawn in by adventure videos and online buzz.
But with thrill seekers flooding the region, new safety concerns arise.
Let's explore what makes places like Ailau so irresistible for some, and how can we protect both people and nature along the way?
And do you have the symptom of compulsive caregiving?
We're going to talk about that right after.
But now, picture this.
Towering trees, hidden waterfalls, and a cool mist rolling over rugged paths, the kind of place that makes you feel like you've stepped into a dream or a nightmare.
The Ailau Mountains in Yunnan recently became a hotspot for tourists and adventures mostly after a viral video showcased its wild beauty and mysterious danger.
With adventure comes risks.
How do we balance the thrill of exploration with the need for safety and environmental preservation?
Before answering this quite complicated question, I need to ask you whether or not you've checked the videos of the first viral Ailau exploring video.
I didn't see that video, but I watched some other media content about the Ailau Mountains.
It's really, really beautiful, by the way.
But it looks like when you wake up from a dream in the middle of the night and you were dreaming about being in the middle of a forest or a mountain range and there was quite low -hanging fog and moist leaves and rocks around, it looks like something you'd see in the middle of a dream.
For those of you who haven't seen the videos just yet, imagine Silent Hill.
I would find it a bit close to a dangerous area that you cannot find the right direction.
It's beautiful for sure.
It's the nature. It's the great, great nature that makes you feel you are small and tiny and vulnerable.
So personally, I am not drawn to that.
So I want to ask Ding Heng for example, are you a daredevil kind of tourist?
Do you? Are you drawn by these wild nature and unexplored area?
Definitely not commercialized.
Or are you the same?
I'm not saying normal.
People like myself, who is a bit scared of that.
Oh, good to know. Actually, I am not a die -hard fan of that kind of scenic spots, but yeah, I have deep in my heart.
I feel like I still have a love and a passion for wilderness.
Whenever me and my wife choose where to go during our leisure time, we would choose to go to some mountainous areas with some streams coming down from the mountain.
And we would hike in a mountain along the stream.
This kind of spots are our favorite.
But I have to say that if you put this, say, Ailao Mountain in the Vietnam Province into this kind of scenery into a literary form, of course that will sound and look to be very, very romantic and beautiful to average audiences.
But, you know, that could be very far away from the actual reality.
Think about a scenario in which, oh, you picture a, you portray an isolated island surrounded by the ocean looks very romantic, but the actual life on the island could be very harsh.
Yeah, it's not like you want to live there.
Yeah, yeah, the Ailao Mountains, if you watch the videos, it looks like something that AI created.
Do you know what I mean?
It's actually real, but it looks really surreal.
Anyway, this vlogger made this video and the vlogger collected rare materials in the Ailao Mountains, which, by the way, are southwest in China, so bordering Myanmar, geographically speaking.
And in the video, there's this incredible, unexplored mountain scene.
There's very dramatic background music.
There's the vlogger's narration and the video attracted a lot of attention and discussion and some netizens found the quote unquote abnormal factors in the video, though.
Basically, they just took mistook natural scenes in the video.
But when it went viral, this mountain range, which was originally sparsely populated, it became overcrowded and data shows that during the National Day holiday, they had a 15 percent increase compared to the same period last year.
Another 50 ,000 tourists visited the area, large in part to this viral video.
Yeah, because originally this is definitely, yeah, you have got the scenic spot, the scenic area, even allowing people to visit.
But we do know that the Ailao Mountain area is just it's not just one mountain.
It's a range. Yeah, it's a large mountainous area, stretching about 500 kilometers and covering an area of nearly 10 ,000 square kilometers.
So it spans over five cities, 16 counties and urban areas in Yunnan Province.
And it's home to millions of precious wild animals and plants.
So it is definitely you get to see the scenic spot area on the outer skirt side of that core mountain area, because the core area is basically forbidden to get into since human activity might disturb the ecosystem.
So actually, there are two, let's say two core protected area within that Ailao Mountain whole area, and on top of the core area that is definitely forbidden for even scientists.
You've also got the buffer zone and also the experimental area.
So think of it as three circles together.
And the outer side of it is still very rare when it comes to human activities.
Yet some scientific experiments can happen in that area.
And then you've got the buffer zone area, basically separating human activities, human scientific research is with the core area that is like forbidden for humans, protected, it's protected, totally protected, making sure that plants, animals, insects, the ecosystem is pure from human interruption.
This is like you said, a big mountain range.
The controversy in this video is that the vlogger was collecting minerals, right?
And then the local authorities criticized his behavior.
They actually made him return the ore that or the ores or the rocks that he had taken from the scene.
There's a lot of complex geography in this mountain range.
A lot of the spots are densely forested where the vegetation makes walking really quite difficult.
Also the high altitude of the mountains leads to sudden weather changes.
There's a lot of steep slopes, a lot of damp or wet slopes as well.
Cliffs are very common.
There's a lot of rain and fog in the area as well.
At nighttime, they say a large amount of carbon dioxide gets released into the foggy environment, and that can cause people to lose consciousness due to a lack of oxygen.
You can experience hypothermia after walking for a long time.
So I think the point of this and what local authorities want people to know is that if an area is off limits, that means it's off limits for the preservation of the spot.
But it's also off limits for your personal safety as well.
It's not like they're trying to punish people by keeping them out of here.
It's not like they're trying to punish people by saying don't collect these rocks or minerals when you're there.
Those rules are there for a very good reason.
And also one of the reasons that this exact place, the Ailao Mountain area, is viral on the Internet, is precisely that people are feeding audience with a little bit passing people, I mean, social media vloggers and influencers, are feeding people with a little bit misleading information.
They talk about these different incidents saying this is a very mysterious place.
For example, there has been the incident happened in November 2021 for national geographical personnel entered Ailao Mountain in Yunnan to carry out research tasks.
However, nobody survived the mission and they got out some details of the story saying that when they were actually in the area, they lost track and they're actually they're quite advanced technology fulfilled, equipment cannot really help them.
And that is with a good reason because inside the area, the geographical, the many geographical situation basically interrupted with the technology and leading to the tragedy.
Yet people put a little bit of mystery in story and these details in the story, making it sounds like this place is full of mysteries and waiting for people to explore.
Easy to get lost. I didn't know this, but I learned about it as I was reading this story.
Igneous rock, there's a lot of igneous rock in this mountain range and basalt is the most common type of igneous rock.
And in basalt, there is iron.
And I didn't know this, but iron will mess with your compass, which means that you are not going to be able to rely on your compass if you're in an area with a lot of basalt.
So it's easy to get turned around and it's easy to get lost.
It's dangerous. It is dangerous, yet with some of the Internet influencers getting into the place started to show people that see, this is a very dangerous area and I am in it.
Look how beautiful it is.
Look how amazing this social media is, vetting people with one, misleading information and two, bad ideas of getting into the protected areas, the forbidden areas.
Have you ever heard of the haiku stairs in or on the island of Oahu in Hawaii?
No. They call it the Stairway to Heaven.
Interesting backstory behind it.
It's four thousand metal steps and it was built by the U .S.
Navy during World War Two.
And then it was abandoned not too long after that.
And it's located in this remote area.
And the only way to get to the stairs is by this very dangerous and unsanctioned hike.
They actually closed it to the public in 1987.
But then, like you said, social media, YouTubers, Instagrammers, looking for the adventure of a lifetime.
They're breaking into this restricted area and they're still continuing to film.
In 2021, the Honolulu City Council, they voted to remove the stairs.
And this is really, really complicated and expensive to remove those stairs because they have to do it piece by piece and one section at a time on the mountain.
And then they remove them by helicopter.
This is a hugely expensive project, 2 .5 million dollar project to do all of this.
But they do this because it's first the safety of people.
I think it was in September, more people got arrested for breaking into that area and trying to hike that area.
So they want to remove the stairs so that there's no temptation to go to that area at all.
That leads to my next question, because in recent years, actually a lot of small counties, small cities, unknown gems were discovered by Chinese internet and for example, Zibo in Shandong Province, Harbin.
And these places got viral and a lot of tourists got into the area and discovering the really great travel and tourism resources and the good service these places can provide.
Actually, during this National Day holiday, Shenxi Province has also been on that list.
Do you think the Ailao mountain area or this little, also the city in Yunnan Province, has the potential of being one of those, you know, really popular destinations, really popular hidden gem kind of places, or it should not be benefiting from this huge internet traffic?
Yeah, I think there is really a trade -off here.
So on one hand, we have to say that social media platforms, in particular, Xiaohongshu, is there profoundly changing the way people tourism, the tourism industry is operating here in China and yeah, and definitely there are potential, tremendous potentials for the development of tourism in some of the less
well -known localities, that's for sure.
And this Ailao mountain together with many, many examples, they are a very good case to study.
But in the meantime, I have a concern that in many of these so -called less developed or less well -known localities, the local infrastructure development might be an issue and the kind of specific protection designed to, for the tourists are probably not there yet.
So, yeah, we don't need a Starbucks on the top of the mountain range.
Yeah, but the kind of protective infrastructure is necessary.
Yeah, I agree with you.
And also even though Steve is making a joke here, actually we do also have tourist friendly areas in Ailao Mountain, it's a huge area.
Just go to the places that you're allowed to go in that is safe, that is with good instruction and make sure while you're connected with the nature, you don't connect to the extent that you cannot find your way back to the society.
And follow the rules.
Those rules are there for a reason.
Yes, for really good reason.
You're listening to Roundtable coming up next.
Why do some people find it so easy to care for others but struggle to care for themselves?
Today, we explore the concept of compulsive caregiving.
Is there a hidden cost to always being the one who takes care of others?
Don't go away. Looking for passion?
How about fiery debate?
Want to hear about current events in China from different perspectives?
Then tune into Roundtable where East meets West and understanding is the goal.
It's Roundtable with myself, Neil Honglin, Steve Hatherly and Ding Hong.
Do you ever feel like you need to be useful to earn love?
If so, you're not alone.
And you might be experiencing what psychologists call compulsive caregiving.
You know, you might have it if you drop everything to help a friend but can't bring yourself to ask for help when you are struggling.
So before asking the question of compulsive caregiving, let's be more general about caregiving and care receiving.
So are you a caregiver or a care receiver generally speaking?
Well, some people say I am more like a care receiver.
Is that some people you're a significant other?
But deep in my heart, I hope I can be a caregiver as well.
Not a caregiver, not necessarily to everybody around me, but to those I care and I love, I hope I can be a caregiver.
Cannot believe how healthy your mental status is.
OK, how about you, Steve?
I think I try to be both because I know about the importance of both.
It's important to try to give care to your friends or family members or your spouse, your children, but it's also important to receive care.
We're human beings.
We need love. It's just part of what makes us human.
So because I'm aware of that, I try to find a balance between the caregiving and the care receiving.
So I think both of you have really good answers and right way to go in life.
Yet we see a lot of netizens on the Chinese Internet complaining, confessing or just describing their situations.
We have someone saying I when it comes to caregiving, someone believes that when they feel like they're people pleaser, which means that they want people around them to like them and their way of earning that like or earning that love is to take care of everybody, is to help people out.
That is one type of comments and quotes we see quite a lot.
Another type is that they feel like they can give people help, but they cannot accept help, they cannot accept care.
So they do not want to be care receiver because they feel like if I receive help, I'll be weaker.
I will be dependent and I cannot be the independent myself.
And that is something dangerous to them.
Do you think these mentalities are, you know, healthy or do we know it's not healthy?
It's definitely not healthy.
I was reading an article on psychology today about where this compulsive caregiving starts.
And according to what the experts said, it starts when you're a child.
So a baby, and again, this is not my opinion.
This is what I learned about a baby creates a bond with a person when they are born, typically mom, right?
So when the child is growing up, they're receiving, receiving, receiving, receiving care at a very early age.
But as they grow up, if they see their caregiver, mom, having a hard time and the child suddenly has to start giving instead of receiving, then that will have an effect on them as an adult because they have it in their psyche that they have to take care, take care, take care all the time.
The article suggests that when they are a child, the reason they want to take care of mom and it can be somebody else.
I'm just using mom as an example.
The reason they want to take care of mom is because when they see mom upset, it makes them feel really uncomfortable and unhappy.
So making mom feel better by giving care actually makes them feel better as a child.
Fast forward to when they're an adult and they continue on with that same psychology, they are constantly trying to take care of other people because that makes them feel better about themselves.
This actually reminds me of a mentality of some girlfriends.
Some girls are constantly in a toxic relationship because when they find someone who needs help, who needs salvage, they would rush into the toxic relationship because they feel like, I can fix you, I can fix you.
I can be the one who transform you from this lousy human being to this responsible, mature spouse of mine.
And that is what drawn them, uh, draw them into this toxic relationship.
And they will repeat that pattern again and again and again.
And until they realize there is a pattern and until they realize they have that character or problem they need to fix and they can jump out of the loop.
One of the other challenges with that type of mentality or that type of pattern is that those people will begin to think that they, or maybe not begin to think, but it will be difficult for them to receive love for compulsive caregivers.
They don't ask for the attention that they need, but if they do eventually meet another caregiver, it might make them feel uncomfortable because they're suddenly being deprived of their, no, no, no, no, no, the opposite.
They're suddenly being given all of this love, all of this attention, all of this affection, and they're not used to receiving, they're the one that used to giving it makes them feel uncomfortable.
And oftentimes they won't want to be in a relationship like that.
They dodge and they go away.
And, and by the way, I have not personally watched this, but I have heard about this Netflix animated TV series, Bojack Horseman, where there is a character called Princess Carolyn, a really reckless caregiver, so to speak.
Whenever this main character, Bojack encounters any trouble, she will be there to provide her care to fix all these problems and doesn't seek any emotional return.
But on the other hand, she doesn't know how to take care of herself.
She often falls in love with whatever, whoever is reliable, unreliable.
And she often says, I'm okay to cover up her genuine sense of unhappiness and her upset and her real emotional needs.
That's an animated character.
Do you know another character, I think, who is a compulsive caregiver?
Yeah. Batman. Oh, I'm fixing the world.
Batman is constantly trying to solve other people's problems and not really trying to take care of himself.
Yeah. But there can also be other relatively positive examples.
For example, Monica Geller.
I think she is definitely a caregiver.
And the plus side is that she is in a very healthy, very loving and nurturing relationship as well as a circle of friends.
So even she is always cleaning, always tidying things up, always hosting all these different kind of activities and events for her friends.
Her friends are returning a lot of love for her as well and providing the support.
So I guess it all comes down to whether or not the relationship is healthy enough.
So on top of a romantic relationship, which we have already basically identified that if one is a total caregiver and one is a total care receiver, it's definitely not healthy.
We need at least a little bit both way.
When it comes to relationships with friends, with family members, with coworkers, what can we do to change it into a healthier dynamic if we are the one who's constantly giving and giving and giving?
I think one of the reasons that compulsive caregivers are constantly compulsively caregiving is because they are a little nervous about expressing their needs.
And I think one of the reasons they're concerned about expressing their needs is a fear of conflict.
So when and I don't know if there's much difference between a romantic relationship or a family relationship or a friendship or a coworker relationship in this particular context, because we're talking about simply expressing to another person what you are missing or what you are needing from them to
fulfill your happiness within the context of that relationship.
So to answer your question, what can people do in any relationship to kind of head down a healthier path?
Don't be afraid to voice your opinion or your needs about something that you're missing and it doesn't have to be a fight.
I think compulsive caregivers are always worried it's going to be a fight if they voice this, but it doesn't have to be.
You can have a mature conversation and say, I'm loving our relationship, but there's just something that I'm missing and I need this from you.
This is something that I need.
Talk about it like that and that probably will help.
Yeah. And also the cultivation of this kind of mentality that, oh, if I am there to care for everybody around me, who is there to care for me?
And if I am not really well, who why should I take the responsibility of being a fixer of problem for everybody around me?
So ultimately, I think things ought to be mutual and reciprocal to some degree.
If you are the top leader of your country, then you need to care for everybody in your country.
But I guess for average people like you and - World leaders are compulsive caregivers.
And you should be. Yeah, we need them to be.
Yeah. But really for average people, you only care for those who care for you.
It should be mutual and a reciprocal.
Yeah. But if you don't voice what you need, then you can't really be upset if the other person isn't providing that care to you because they don't know.
You know, when you if you're with your spouse and then you go out to work and you have all of these interactions at work dealing with all these different people and you're not getting anything back from those people and you come back to your spouse, your spouse doesn't know what happened to you during the day.
They might not know that you're having those feelings.
So you have to voice your opinions and voice how you're feeling.
And for those of you who are constantly giving and giving and giving and being the fixer in the company and family, remember this, you do not need to prove that you're useful so that you deserve to be loved.
You deserve to be loved from the very first place.
It's okay to be the care receiver somehow because you've grown into this amazing person that deserves this unconditional love and you are getting it.
And that brings us to the end of today's roundtable.
We'd love to hear your thoughts on today's topics.
Leave us a comment or send us an email to roundtablepodcast .com.
Until next time, keep the conversations going and the ideas flowing.
I'm Yeon -hong Lin with Steve and Jin -hyung.
Thanks for listening.
