Discussion keeps the world turning.
This is Round Table. You're listening to Round Table with myself, Ha Young.
I'm joined by Yushu and Steve Hatherly in the studio.
So scientists just dropped a bombshell.
We age in two big bursts, one at 44 and another at 60.
How does that change the way we think about getting older?
Or does it at all? And we share with you what's brought us shared delight this week.
Join us for a dose of positivity, laughter, and all things that make our hearts sing.
In Round Table's happy place and your voice matters.
We would love to hear it in our heart to heart segment.
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Fire up that voice memo and hit us up at Round Table Podcast at qq.com.
Our podcast listeners can find us at Round Table China on Apple Podcast.
Now let's switch it up and explore another intriguing topic.
We all know our bodies change as we age, but what if those changes aren't as gradual as we thought?
New research from Stanford University reveals that human aging occurs in two significant bursts.
First around the age of 44 and then again at 60.
This challenges the long-held belief that aging is a slow, steady process.
So Steve, what is this new research and how has it reached such conclusions?
Well, the first thing I want to say about this topic is for long-time listeners of Round Table, they would know that, you know, we divide up our topics and who's going to present which topics before the show.
And you shouldn't say to me before the show, hey, Steve, I think you should do the aging topic.
I said, what do you? Yeah, why?
So I'm just going to try to not die of old age before the show ends and I'll consider that a success.
That's all I am introducing the first one and then maybe you can get the second one since.
That shovel will only dig the hole deeper, my friend.
This is from Stanford Medicine, this new study, and it has revealed that many of the body's molecules and microorganisms starkly rise or fall in number at two specific ages, the ones that you mentioned before, 44 years old and 60 years old.
All right, so it's going to get a little bit sciency here for the next minute or two, but if you don't know all the words, don't worry about it.
We'll talk you through it.
The researchers drew the conclusion that they came to after looking at thousands of molecules in the body.
They looked at RNA, proteins, metabolites, and their microbiomes.
That's the collection of bacteria and viruses and fungi that live on our bodies and inside our bodies.
So they looked at people from 25 years old to 75 years old.
And if you're interested in looking this up, you can find it in the journal Nature Aging.
So specifically, they measured more than 11,000 molecules in the adult body over time, and it revealed that 81% of what they studied undergo dramatic changes at 44 years old and 60 years old.
Yeah, it's kind of an interesting study.
Now, there's a lot to kind of question about this study, and we'll get to that in just a sec.
But they're looking at biological age, which refers to the changes that take place in your body over a lifetime, as opposed to maybe what we would call chronological age.
That's year by year by year.
And according to this, the human body does not age at a constant rate throughout adulthood or throughout our lives.
Instead, it accelerates dramatically around 44 and 60 years old.
I thought that was kind of a fascinating finding.
Which means, so I was thinking about this chronological age, which means maybe I am 30 years old, but my body or biological age is not 30.
Yeah, right. It could be 20 or 50.
Yeah, exactly. Depending on how you live, I suppose, right?
That could have a big influence on it.
The reason they did this study, they were looking at things that come along in our lives as we tend to get older.
Diseases like Alzheimer's and also cardiovascular conditions, that stuff related to your heart.
Those are diseases that typically come along when you get a little bit older in life.
Not always, but typically yes.
And that's why they decided to do this study, because they noted that the risk of developing these conditions was pretty sharp.
These conditions, cardiovascular and Alzheimer's, it comes along very quickly.
And that's why it inspired them to do this study.
Well, so when we're getting 44, exactly the time that my birthday just passed, and then there is a higher risk of getting maybe Alzheimer's or cardiovascular diseases.
No, don't take it like that.
It doesn't mean if you're 43 years old and your birthday is tomorrow that you're going to have heart troubles.
It doesn't mean that if you're 59 years old and your birthday is in a week, you're suddenly going to get Alzheimer's disease.
That is not what this means at all.
I'll tell you some specifics about what they found.
For people in their 40s, molecular changes were seen in a number of molecules related to alcohol and caffeine and fat metabolization.
Also cardiovascular disease and also skin and muscle as well.
The metabolization of alcohol and caffeine, for example, metabolization, if you're not familiar with that term, that's the chemical process inside your body that changes food, for example, into energy or fat or waste products.
And at 44 and 60, what they found was that people couldn't metabolize alcohol as well as they could before.
At 44 and 60, they couldn't metabolize caffeine as good or as well as they could before.
And according to this study, do they know why all of this is happening?
Yeah, well, there's the thing we have to question about this, right?
No, they don't exactly know the reasons for this.
They identified four different age types in this study, which by the way had 108 participants.
And they looked at kidney and liver and metabolism and the immune systems at the age of different people.
But they couldn't exactly come up with a particular reason as to why this was happening.
There's a lot of links to cardiovascular health, but those are only correlative.
They point to a lot of potential reasons why they come, but they haven't been able to answer this question.
You know, there's a lot of questions with this study.
They only looked at people from 25 to 75, right?
That's what I was thinking.
The participants were all from California.
They were all from California.
And that's a great point because Stanford, by the way, is in California.
California is a place where people tend to live pretty healthily.
So choosing people from California, that might have an impact on this study as well.
And also, they looked at the changes in the blood, but the question is, do the changes that they saw in the blood, does it actually drive disease?
Or is that a byproduct of the aging process?
They don't know the answer to this yet.
And even the scientists have said that there's a lot.
They're almost like there's more questions than there are answers through this study.
You know, of course, we can see the samples are just 108 people.
And also, they're all from California, which may not represent the global population.
But I think at least it is offering a new perspective on understanding the biological basis of aging.
I mean, human aging and could contribute to developing more effective products and treatments to slow down or reverse age-related changes or diseases that we mentioned before.
Anyway, we were thinking about, okay, why at the age of 44 or 60 is a sharp cliff that we may face when we're facing these immune system or caffeine-related functions or something like that.
I think that is just aging.
You know, aging will make human or make creatures become old and bad at solving all of these problems.
Yep, and you're right. And Zhao Tao-Shin, who is a former Stanford Medicine Postdoctoral Scholar and the first author of this study, even Zhao Tao-Shin said that more research is needed to explore the answers to these questions.
But they also said, the researchers, that regardless of causation, they do recommend paying particular attention to your health when you're in your early to mid-40s and your early 60s as well.
And they talk about things like increasing exercise and decreasing alcohol consumption to just live a healthier life in general.
But I mean, the whole anti-aging industry is absolutely booming, isn't it?
Oh, absolutely. And it's really interesting that even with this study, which originally appeared in English, conducted by Stanford University, but it's spread, I wouldn't go as far as saying like wildfire, but like a small fire on Chinese social media as well.
And also the headline often goes, and I suppose it's going to be today's headline for our podcast title as well, but it really just sort of highlights 44 and 60, you know, these bam-bam and also anti-aging.
And I think this is the kind of topic that gets the attention of anyone across the world.
And it seems like... This is a topic that we'll never age.
I see what you did there.
Cut that clip for our socials.
That's perfect. It's great.
And the substantial size and rapid growth of the global anti-aging industry corresponds to this interest and need of people to want to stay younger.
And what do you see as maybe the interesting facts about the size of the market as well as, you know, just all these services that address age-related concerns?
Yeah, there's a huge massive global anti-aging market.
They value it at about 63 billion U.S.
dollars. That was a statistic or a number from 2022.
They predict that that will reach $106.7 billion by 2030.
I love that when they put out the predictions and they put.4,.7.
It's a very, very specific prediction, isn't it?
Anyway, that's a pretty significant growth over the next six to seven years.
Cosmetics is an absolute money grab for anti-aging companies, right?
And this has been around in, gosh, Western culture, I can say for sure, but probably in Chinese culture, probably in every culture around the world, this kind of pushing us to look younger and feel younger, right?
It's just a nonstop thing.
I was thinking even the words anti-aging, it sounds like you are battling some villains.
It sounds like you're doing something wrong, right, by getting older.
But it is just a natural phenomenon that everybody will get.
And when we're talking about this, you know, actually, as we talked about it, it is an evergreen topic that people will have how to end high age.
But why are we so scared of getting old?
That is something we may need to think about.
Because I was thinking, you know, it can be the fear of change or to the unknown.
I feel that even for a young person, just by discovering a new forehead wrinkle can cause a moment of anxiety.
Do men feel that too? Probably.
Even, you know, are there any particular numbers here in China that people are afraid of in terms of aging in Canada and America going from 29 to 30?
Oh dear, that's the end of your life, or 39 to 40.
But I think after 40, I don't know if there's any fear of 49 to 50 or 59 to 60.
But those are two big ones that people stress about, 29 to 30 and 39 to 40.
Is that the same here in China?
I think so. We actually have that kind of word to illustrating that age.
I mean, 30, there is a word called early junior, which is saying that you are about to be knowing things and understand things and you should not be confused about things.
That is the age that you will be like that, and that is the age of 30.
My interpretation is exactly opposite to that.
Actually early junior to me is like, the key here is to lead.
So that is to achieve your career.
Or have a family or something.
So you're supposed to like, you have established the basics in your life as a grown up adult.
But that's according to ancient Chinese sayings.
And back then people don't live that long, unlike now with our life expectancy easily going above 70 or 80 years old.
But I also just like to share one thing as a woman.
It's a tough world out there, especially when it comes to those ages that you just mentioned, Steve, about 29 and 30.
It's almost like a ticking time bomb is constantly in your head, especially if you are not married, if you have not given birth to your first baby, and especially if you sit down at night and feel like, what have I achieved in my career or in my life?
And it really bogs you down.
I mean, this is probably the opportune time just to ask you guys, you know, like midlife crisis, quarter life crisis are tough enough.
And now we're aging fast at 44 and 60 according to one study and you don't have to believe that.
But I'm just so over feeling like my life is dictated by these age milestones.
How can I reclaim my life and live on by my own terms?
Or is this completely a pipe dream?
You shouldn't. I'm going to let you answer that one.
He's the baby on the team.
He's not thinking about these things.
But at least I think I can explain it from the angle of what we just talked about.
Of course, I thought like you, He Yang, early junior or 30 and established means that you need to establish something at the age of 30.
But after I looked into maybe the meaning of this whole sentence, 30, Arli, 40, Bu Huo, which means 30 and established, 40 and not confused.
So this means that by the age of 30, a person is expected to have developed their own discernment and judgment abilities.
Gaining unique insights through accumulated life experience and by the age of 40, one expected to have less confusion about things.
So in this way, I think it is also telling you that maybe, of course, we're facing aging and it will make your body and appearance grow older.
But our inner strength may also grow alongside it.
Which means you are seeing the world more, you are getting to more scenarios and getting knowledge from this world and you're getting from it.
Sure, okay. She didn't like that answer.
Next. I tried. Alright, let me try.
You know, kudos for trying, really.
Okay, how about this then?
We always look to society as a guide to let us know what we're supposed to be doing and where we're supposed to be doing it and how we're supposed to be doing it.
And social media has only exacerbated that problem.
I'll call it so much as a problem.
Stop thinking about what other people are doing, number one.
Stop thinking about number two, what you're supposed to be doing.
Here's my answer. Whatever you're doing now is probably what you are supposed to be doing.
Don't think about your life in stages like 30, 40, 50, 60, 70.
That's an easy thing to do.
Just think about where you are in your path, in your journey as a human being on this planet.
If you're not happy with what you're doing, make some adjustments.
If you're not happy with what you're studying, make some adjustments if you can.
With your work, make some adjustments if you can.
But it's your path, it's your journey, it's your life, and no one has control over it but you.
Okay, that could easily be a motivational Monday clip.
We could just copy and paste it for a motivational Monday.
Yeah, just do that for next Monday.
I'm done already. I think it is really useful to view age not as a limitation but as a chance to grow, learn, and evolve.
Approach each stage of life with curiosity, creativity, and a willingness to expand our perspectives towards life because it's so easy to be boxed in and sort of in a really negative way be affected.
Sorry to interrupt, but oftentimes we do that to ourselves.
Oftentimes we do that to ourselves.
Nobody's doing that to us.
Different for every person.
But I'm saying just sometimes we put ourselves in our own box.
And it's because of these societal rules or whatnot like you both have mentioned.
And also this culture of glorification of being young.
And then you see that on social media.
You see that everywhere.
Magazine covers television.
You name it. Yeah, and also talking about cosmetic trends years ago or at least for my mom's generation, I remember when she was hitting the big 4-0, she was starting to visit the cosmetic aisle which sells anti-aging products.
And now for my generation, when you hit like 25 or maybe 28, women are being targeted in marketing true law.
Like early aging products.
Teenagers are being targeted now.
Sephora kids. Yeah, exactly.
That's a topic that we discussed in a previous show.
So before we move on to a happier place, guys, do you have maybe a couple of final words to say to our audience regarding this aging topic?
Yeah. Because I can feel, I know a lot of us are going to be looking at the numbers and feeling, ah, this sucks.
It doesn't suck to get older, first of all.
You know, if you consider the alternative, one of my old coworkers, he was about 30 years older than I was.
And every time his birthday came around, he would celebrate it wildly and he would always say, I love getting older because if you consider the alternative, right?
And he wasn't wrong. So don't pay too much attention to 40.
In this study, 44 and 60 is not meant to make you feel depressed about turning 44 or turning 60 years old.
Oh, good. So it's a little reminder that maybe certain things happen in your body at that particular time and maybe you have to make adjustments.
But again, you know, this study is from Stanford.
We're going to trust Stanford results.
But even the researchers said, we have a lot more questions that need to be answered here.
Or I can provide a perspective from viewing these kind of things.
I, I, maybe it can be extended to people's fear of aging or even to the end of their life.
I mean, death. I recently read about the theory of Zhuanzi, which is the ancient Chinese philosopher.
He viewed death as an inevitable, inevitable part of life cycle and human life transitions from nothing to existence and to nothing again.
So maybe it's just like a cycle and although this may sound very, very philosophical to a lot of people and it might offer some insight into how we approach death or even just aging.
Right. And remember, you are more than a number by taking intentional steps to live on your own terms and redefine what it means to age.
Well, we can reclaim a per a sense of purpose and agency.
And it might not always be easy, but it's a worthy pursuit for a life fully lived.
Coming up, welcome to the happiest quarter on the airwaves.
Roundtables, happy place.
Delivery, delivery, delivery.
Well, you're listening to Roundtables, happy place with myself, He Yang, and I'm joined by Steve Hatherly and Yu Shun.
Yu Shun, you have something really happy to share with us.
Oh, yeah. So my happy place is at the National Zoology Zoological Museum of China.
Actually, I've visited this museum for a fascinating collaboration they had with Pokemon.
Oh, nice. They actually they showcased various different types of Pokemon from different categories, along with detailed encyclopedic information about real world animals.
And that is why I like it or love the enemy.
They are offering both science knowledge and Pokemon knowledge.
So here is the thing that I would like to ask you ready for some kind of sciencey quiz around Pokemon and natural world.
So yes, did you know that some Pokemon, of course, you don't know, changed their fur color with the seasons?
Do you know that there are animals that change their fur according to temperatures?
Oh, OK. So what's your question?
You said it's a quiz. I don't hear a question in there.
So this is a phenomenon that happened to Pokemons, though they changed their color of their fur according to temperature or the seasons.
And there are some animals, real animals, that change their fur color according to temperature.
Oh, I thought Pokemon only changed color to the season of the year as in, oh, the fifth season just came out and they all turned blue while they didn't.
I didn't even know Pokemon had fur.
They do. But anyway, what we're trying to say is Siamese cats, you know that type of cat, right?
They changed their color of their fur from white to black when the temperature turns cold.
Oh, really? Yes. So that is the knowledge that I get from this little museum or any club.
OK, you don't have to defend your trip there.
I didn't defend for anything because I love Pokemon, even from my childhood.
And I think that is also the reason why I went to this museum for this little bit exhibition because it might sound like a science lesson for kids.
I did see some parents actually going there with their children.
And I'm sure it's also because these adults' childhoods were surrounded by Pokemon, maybe like me.
I saw a dad passionately introduce what that Pokemon is to his kid.
That could be you when you become a dad.
Exactly. Yes. So I was thinking when I was a kid, I always wished to have my own Pokemon.
So when I stepped into that live-sized Pokemon-filled artificial natural environment, that's a huge sentence.
Sorry, but I really felt like a childhood dream had come true, even though they didn't move like that.
But I stepped into that world feeling, well, I'm surrounded by Pokemons and they're life-size.
And maybe if they're real, they will be like that, like, roaring to me.
But anyway, overall, the whole event was both, I think, educational and entertaining.
So I really recommend anybody who is interested in Pokemon or animals to visit this National Zoological Museum.
That's really cool. An unexpected collaboration, T-Dragon, right?
Yes. You never expect those two things to go together.
It is unexpected but expected because they have so many things in common, I mean, from the natural world, I mean, the animals and the Pokemons.
Because a lot of these animals and their characteristics are inspired by real-life animals.
Yeah, exactly. Any stuff on dinosaurs there?
No. No. You know, when Yushun was telling me, just giving me sort of like a little preview of what he's going to say about his happy place, he got me so confused and I'm sorry, I sort of accidentally was sort of a mood kill for him in the sense that after he went on for like five minutes, and I was like, so is this a museum for Pokemon or is it?
Oh, I wish. I completely missed the point.
So actually, this museum has a ton of animal taxi-dermi, taxi-dermi, Dongwu Biao Ben there.
So it's like the main dish is the education of animals and the side garnish, or okay, a super-sized garnish is Pokemon, but for Yushun, well, the garnish is bigger than the actual museum.
Okay, no, he didn't say that.
But I'm so happy that is your happy place and thank you for bringing joy and laughter to this week's around.
And just before we finish up, could you bring me some warm tea and some applesauce?
It's time for my afternoon nap, Yushun.
I'm not saying you're old, but yeah, this is a good time.
Hopefully, I'll be back to next time.
And that brings us to the end of today's roundtable.
We'll see you next time.
