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Hello everyone, it's me again, Robin.
And I am excited to report that my partner in chat today is none other than Rosie.
And we have some important questions that we're going to be tackling today.
We're going to be talking about wanting to overcome shyness and social anxiety.
We're going to be talking about doubting your abilities and always thinking that you should or could do better in sports.
And we also have a question about how to forgive and take care of yourself after an emotionally abusive relationship.
We've got lots of big questions.
So let's get started.
Have you ever wished you had a wise meditation teacher on speed dial?
Someone you can call after a long day.
Someone you could lean on for their advice.
Someone to listen and help you to see things differently.
Welcome to Dear Headspace, a podcast where I sit with a meditation teacher and we answer your questions.
Rosie, look at us back together again so soon.
Yeah, it's always so much fun.
Right?
I love when the schedule just aligns.
And we're subbing in today.
So your sound is a little bit different, but we're so glad that you were available.
It's my pleasure.
And always, it's so good to have these chats.
And yes, sound issues.
We're just going to pretend like they're not there.
It's as if they're not happening.
They're not happening.
It's not happening.
Well, we have some really thoughtful and also really relatable questions today.
So I am glad that you are in the hot seat alongside me.
And our first question is from Colleen, who wants to talk about overcoming social anxiety.
So should we get right to it?
Yeah, let's do it.
Okay.
Here is Colleen.
Hi, dear Headspace crew.
My name is Colleen, and I'm currently living in Pennsylvania in the US.
My question for you today centers around social anxiety and self-judgment.
For years I've struggled with shyness and feeling accepted in social settings, which I suspect is rooted in some pretty challenging peer experiences I faced in my adolescence.
To cope, I've cultivated a really strong practice of compassion for myself and for others.
And while that's helped, I still have a pretty difficult time when it comes to taking up space or putting myself out there in social settings.
It's especially difficult for me to take part in group conversations.
I spend so long listening to others and then second-guessing myself while I try to figure out the right thing to say, that I often just stay silent.
The period of isolation so many of us experienced during the pandemic really showed me how much I crave connection and community.
So my question for you is how can mindfulness help me push past my insecurity and self-judgment to grow closer to others?
Thank you and be well.
Thank you for this question, Colleen.
There was a couple of things that really jumped out at me.
I thought that Colleen was going to say The pandemic was bad for her, but instead she was kind of like it made me aware of something which I thought was really interesting.
But I also I heard and I'm curious what you think about.
That is like she called it, like her insecurities.
And I just felt like she was judging herself.
And there's more like this is just an anxiety versus something you're doing wrong.
I don't know.
I just jumped out at me and I was like, be nice to yourself, Colleen.
Yeah, I totally agree with you, Robin.
You know there is a big difference between just having general anxiety and having social anxiety right.
When we're in social settings a lot of the time for many people.
I know that there's a good majority of people that struggle with this.
We have this sort of fear of being judged by others or not being accepted, or being chastised or or something.
You know, things that all the wrong things, saying the wrong thing.
And what happens a lot of the times with these social settings.
And I can relate in my younger years because I had the same type of social anxiety, because I would go into situations, or when I first started practicing yoga or I first started going into studio, I just felt so foreign in that situation.
I didn't, and I was so new, I didn't know what to do.
I I, I didn't know the what the poses were and teachers would be, you know, saying these Sanskrit pose names and I had no idea.
And I just look around and just see, like, I just knew it was not great.
Right.
So I think in situations like that, a lot of the times and it sounds like Colleen's experience has has been the same.
We go into the state of self-criticism and self-judgment.
You know, instead of coming into a situation like I'm really nervous about going into this new space and just saying it and naming it, we go into this place of something's wrong with me.
What did I say?
Oh, I'm gonna say something wrong.
And it keeps us from potentially connecting with people.
And the reason why we get social anxiety, from my experience, is we have such a deep desire to connect right.
We just want to be accepted so bad.
We want to be loved.
And I think that it's really great that she's already taken some steps to being kind to herself and incorporating self-compassion and self-acceptance.
One of the things that I find was really helpful for me, and anytime I've encountered this question and how meditation can help is when we enter our meditation practice, we're guided to be innately curious of what's coming in.
We're innately curious of our thoughts, of what's happening in our minds.
The quality of thoughts without judgment.
That's the idea yeah, and so if we're able to continually practice that, we can then take that into our everyday life when we go into a social setting, go into a social setting, feeling curious and trying to not be self-judgmental.
Yeah, It's so interesting because I feel like Sam talks a lot and I've heard you talk about this as well about talking to herself in these situations and being like Sam you're just scared or you're just you know, and I was thinking about that having that awareness, because it does seem like Colleen has all kinds of awareness as what's going on, not just that of what the problem exists, but also what she wants.
I always think that's a great place to be because then there's something to be done about it.
So it's like there's self-soothing that can be done.
You're mentioning the meditation practice.
I always think about.
Sometimes it takes me because I grew up like a little white trashy upstate New York, just a little bit.
And, and I remember like being around friends who came from like wealthy families and being like I don't know how I'm acting at this table and like just being afraid I'm going to use the wrong fork or do the wrong thing.
And so I just like I learned to just look around at other people and just kind of mimic what was happening.
But I still had all the fear, right?
Right.
You know, so it's like.
So I think, while I think the awareness is helpful that what's happening, like my technique, is just like a fight or flight.
Yeah.
And what you're talking about is the exact opposite of like coming into your body.
And that just seems like such a better approach.
I think of all the fear I had.
Just if you get uncomfortable, just go into the bathroom and take some deep breaths.
They come back out and see where they're at.
I love what you're saying because I think most of us just go into panic mode whenever we're in a situation where we don't feel like we're going to fit in.
And I think it's natural for us to feel that.
And I really do like Colleen's approach already.
So it's almost like she's asking the question, but she's also answering the question.
So I would say to her just to keep doing what you're doing.
Continue to use meditation as a practicing tool for your thoughts when they come up, and any sort of self-judgment that may arise when you're in these situations.
To quell your desire to run, you know, because that's really what it helps us do is to stay in that discomfort.
Thoughts come and go in our mind.
And part of our practice as mindfulness students and teachers is to be able to notice what we notice.
And that's the best thing to do.
And I think part of the noticing is understanding that many of us feel this way.
Everyone has their moments where we feel othered or we don't feel like everyone else.
And so to me, I agree with you 100 percent Rosie, that it's so wonderful that Colleen already recognizes that there's a path to this, which is mindfulness and a little little hand on the heart, like all the teachers say, and a little kind self-talk.
Well, that'll get you really far in this situation.
This is true.
I agree.
All right, Colleen.
Well, good luck.
And I'd love to know how you're doing.
Let us know.
Yeah.
Keep us posted.
All right, we are going to thank you for your question, Colleen.
We're going to move on to our next question from Ned.
All right, here we go.
Hi, my name is Ned and I'm from London.
I've recently started to play competitive sport.
I'm always training and trying to improve my skills, but no matter how hard I work or what I achieve, I find myself thinking that I can always be better.
This sometimes leaves me feeling sad about my ability.
What is your advice on dealing with this feeling?
Well, that's such a hard question because you just hear the pressure that Ned's putting on himself of always wanting to be the best.
And it just feels like that feels like it's a recipe for the goalpost being moved and never, ever feeling fully fulfilled is what it sounds like as a starting place.
Ned, good on you for doing what you're doing.
I mean, it sounds like you're doing something that you really love and enjoy.
And I always find this with athletes and people that really love to do sports it just brings a different kind of joy to their lives.
And I think competitive sports is amazing.
I think it does create for some people that that drive that they're looking for in order to feel like they're progressing in life.
And other people, just I can tell, enjoy doing the sport, just to do the sport.
And look, this goes back to what we were just talking about earlier.
It goes back to self-doubt and us not feeling like we're good enough.
And I think it's really important for us to again go back to the practice of mindfulness and really question what our intention is.
What is the reason?
Where is that coming from?
Where is your desire to achieve and succeed?
You know, when I I first started running, I never considered myself a runner, and I still don't.
I've ran four marathons and I still would not consider myself a runner.
I don't have a runner's quote unquote body.
I, you know, my, my knees are not good and my stride is not great.
You know, it's like I've I've had all the assessments and to me, running is like my first form of meditation.
I it wasn't something that I did as a kid, but what I found was signing up for these marathons or doing something that provided a sort of goalpost for myself so I can see that I can get better and build stamina was really helpful for my self-esteem, because not only was it providing an opportunity for me to get all the feel-good endorphins and it was making me healthier and it was making me make better choices overall, because it was affecting my performance, my athletic ability, but it just was making me feel more grounded.
Now, the more that I did it, the more I felt that competitive urge come out where I was in a running group and I knew I wanted to sort of I didn't want to be better than than I.
There's no way.
I mean, I just I was not as experienced as some of the people in my running group, but I did want to be at the top of my running group.
I didn't want to be like a lagger.
Right.
And so I worked so hard that once I got to the top, my coach moved me into a faster division and I became the last person in that division.
Yeah.
But but to me, you know, just just to go back to to Ned's point, for me it was helpful to have that experience because I was fighting so hard for something, because I felt like if I could win quote unquote win, there's no winning right.
But it's like, if I can win, then that meant I was good.
That I was enough.
And so having the experience of getting to the top and now going back down to the valley after climbing that hill was a little bit disheartening for me, but it also made me realize the sort of irony of oh here I am racing to get to the top.
There's going to be another hill to climb.
And it really allowed me to pause and take stock and go back to my my first point, that I said what was my intention.
And so I would ask Ned to examine that for him.
What does that mean to him?
What is, what is it doing for him and how is it serving? his overall well-being.
Yeah.
Like it's you said so many things that jumped out at me.
That was the first one, though, is like, why are you doing this?
Because I'm an incredibly, incredibly competitive with myself and with like anything that moves.
I'm like, I can beat it.
Like it's just like it's and it's sometimes it's really wonderful.
And like I accomplish a lot of things, but then sometimes it's really horrible because I'm so hard on myself.
And I've gone back to playing tennis.
I played in high school.
One of the reasons I stopped playing is because I was it was a solo sport and I was so up in my head that it became like torturous to play.
And I got back for like the love of the game.
And I actually play with one of the producers on the show.
We play regularly.
And I have been thinking lately about about every time I step on the court just being like can I lose better?
Can I play a little better than I did yesterday?
And when I get out there and when I start feeling myself get really competitive, I start thinking about what I love about the game and about I start thinking about like, the enjoyment I'm getting from not thinking about my life or Or even, as there's a moment where I'm stopping and serving, I will breathe and I'll just take in.
I'm outside, I'm playing, I'm with a friend.
It's just to get myself back to the whole thing that I love about it in the first place.
Otherwise, I'm just...
It'll never be enough.
Like.
Your example of being moved like it was, like I came to the top of the mountain and then you were just at the bottom of the next mountain is just like so real.
It's so real.
You'll always be moving the thing of what success is.
But like, did you have fun?
Were you proud of being moved up?
What came out of that?
Yeah, no, I'm with you.
I love what you said.
You said something that's really poignant.
How do I become good at losing?
And I think for many of us, we lose all the time.
And most of the time, it doesn't affect us because that's just part of life.
That's why the wins are so idolized, because they're rare.
They don't happen all the time.
And so I think, if we go back to this humbling of sorts where we can really observe what our intentions are and be more mindful about how we're approaching a situation, especially something,
That's supposed to bring us joy.
Just like you said, you know, it took you back to the game.
It took you back to the reasons of why you loved doing what you do.
So I don't know.
I love that.
I think that that's a really great place for for Ned to start.
Yeah.
And also, Ned, winning is not black or white.
You know, I could play a match and I could lose three of the six games but still win.
So then it's like, so I try to go in like, what's my intention for today?
All right, I'm just going to focus on this one thing and let's see if I can improve a little.
So it's breaking it down into these little things, that where there's opportunities for me to improve.
Otherwise, it just is too daunting.
And the producer on the podcast, Baron.
He was telling me that there is in the app and I have to tell on myself I have not listened to it just yet, but it's now Ned, you're reminding me that I want to do it.
There's a course on competition in sports that is by Andy and it's in the app.
So I feel like that would be something to really check out because it's so hyper-focused.
I love that.
I'm going to check it out.
All right.
And then in the meantime, Ned, let's get together.
Let's have a game.
Let's see who wins.
I'm just kidding.
I'm just joking.
I'm just joking.
You have this, Ned.
To me, it's just wonderful that you're out there and you're doing it.
Just look for your small wins.
That's what I say.
Yeah.
The fact that you're here and you're asking this question is already a step in the right direction.
You're being mindful of the inner dialogue.
And I think you're already in such a great place.
Well, thank you for your question, Ned.
All right.
We will be right back.
All right.
Here is a question from Matt.
Hello, my name is Matt and I live in Florida.
My question would be how do I trust myself after getting out of an abusive relationship myself, or anybody for that matter?
Just as a little background, I recently last week just got out of a year and a half emotionally abusive relationship and was gaslighted.
Majority of it, to believe that all of the issues that we were having were my fault, among other things, and that I was the person who was the monster, the person who was abusing.
And even though in reality I was the person being abused and I really didn't realize it until a couple of weeks ago, and I'm just having a hard time grounding myself and remembering that and trusting myself again and loving myself, and I want to know how I can forgive myself, forgive that person and move past that in a healthy manner.
And I've never been able to do anything like that in a healthy manner.
Any time I've ever gone through heartbreak, I've always tried to numb out the pain.
And I really want to sit with it this time and learn from it.
And I don't know where to begin.
Oh, Matt, this is just such a big question.
I mean, you have so much in here.
You have heartbreak.
You have someone who is gaslighting you.
And then a need or a longing to treat yourself in a healthy way as you try to come out of this not so great situation.
So I just want to start off by just saying, I'm so glad you reached out.
This is a tough space.
Yeah.
Congratulations, by the way, on getting out of a not good situation.
It sounded like You were not in a great relationship, and good on you for recognizing that you were being gaslit.
So many times I've heard the story so many times, Robin where people are in relationships and they don't realize that they're getting gaslit.
And it can be so emotionally challenging. it can wreak havoc on your entire life.
It's so insidious because the people doing it are so it's so surgical and it happens over time.
You know just in your head.
It can make you really doubt yourself and you can hear it in Matt's voice.
Yeah.
And I think that what he's saying too is so poignant.
He said, how can I forgive the person that I was with and also forgive himself?
And I think that what happens a lot of the time.
I've experienced this and I'm sure everyone in your life you've experienced this as well.
And the first thing that I do want to say is my journey with this and being in a relationship where I was being gaslit constantly.
I saw a therapist, which I highly recommend because it was so incredibly useful.
I learned so many tools and I really got into a place in that experience where forgiveness was possible, and I think that you recognizing this Matt, and seeing where you're at in your life, knowing that forgiveness is something that you're aspiring to, you're already off to a really great start.
But it can be very difficult to grapple with these feelings because a lot of the times what happens when we feel so strongly about something and somebody tells us that we're not or that we feel a certain way and then they say, no, you don't. there's such a cognitive dissonance that happens in your brain because you're feeling the feelings, but you're also having the person that you care about the most say that you're not.
And so you're having this experience and you're also being negated the experience.
And it can make you doubt who you are and what you believe about yourself.
Yeah.
And I think that The more insidious issue that happens in my experience from friends or people that I know that have dealt with a similar situation is the break of self-trust that happens.
Yeah.
Right?
Because then we feel like we can't trust our own judgment anymore.
We feel like we can't make a decision, or we can't trust a feeling, or we're constantly questioning ourselves.
And is this going to happen again?
Maybe they were right.
Maybe I was wrong.
And creates a lot of uncertainty within ourselves.
And I think that one of the better remedies when you're getting out of the situation is to learn to rebuild that self-trust, to learn to rebuild your self-confidence and your ability to learn to discern what I'm feeling and how I'm feeling it.
And I think that going back to mindfulness, I mean, to me, this is my wheelhouse, right?
It's the place I always go to because it's the place where I feel the most at home.
It's actually the place where we can begin to recognize what our own truth is, what our own experiences, what our own emotions are.
And I think starting at that point and recognizing it is really helpful to begin this process.
I do believe that forgiveness is possible.
I believe that you start with self-forgiveness first.
And I'd be curious your experience with this Robin, because there is that component of self-forgiveness that needs to happen because we feel so guilty.
Yeah.
I mean like I had a partnership that was like this and I was kind of like how did I allow myself to be treated like this for so long?
And And that's why I think, like your shout to like therapy or mindfulness work, is important, because I think that sometimes in these situations a person can get into your head in a way that's so like shuts off other voices and you may need to untangle that with another person.
Because I know for me there was part of me that's like maybe I am that, maybe I was that, maybe I did do that.
And then I'd be like, but no, I know I didn't.
And no, I you know, it's like, other people don't think that about me.
And it's like, it took me a solid six months to a year to really clean that up.
So I think patience with yourself is really important.
If a person is good at telling you you are bad, it will take you a minute to untangle that.
Yeah, there's so many layers.
And I feel like when you get out of a situation like that, I mean, it's an abusive relationship.
I mean, I see it as an abusive relationship.
You feel so broken down that you really need to give yourself the grace and the space to heal, to allow yourself to get back to a place of peace, a place of clarity.
And I think that you're definitely on the right track, but I wouldn't necessarily rush to the forgiveness portion either, right?
Really allow yourself the time and the space to get there.
I know that there's one of my friends is going through a similar situation and she just wanted to go through all of these processes so quickly.
After being with somebody for five years, she wanted to just heal in a month and just start, you know, fresh.
And I I appreciate the sentiment and desire to move forward, but was a very chaotic relationship and i just was explaining to her that it's going to take time and you're going to have highs, you're going to have lows, and that's.
That's part of the process.
You're going to have moments where you doubt, where you feel angry, you might feel sad and and it's okay to have the spectrum of emotions be present, and and that's why, again i'll go back to what i said in the beginning i always recommend working with a therapist or a mental health professional so that they can really help you move through all of the emotions that come up when you are getting out of this type of abusive relationship.
Well, and let's talk about the back half of Matt's question.
You know he mentioned that he wants to come out of this and he wants to treat himself well, and it's not something that he's been able to do in the past.
How would you approach that?
Because I can think of all the negative, harmful behaviors that I have.
And sometimes I have the ability to be like, no, my body is a temple.
I will be super nice to myself because I deserve it.
And then there's other times where I'm like I am definitely jamming this ice cream in my face because I feel really bad about X, Y and Z.
So how do we say to Matt do the first part, not the second.
When we're all human and we all fall and and have these moments.
Yeah.
Well, I think it just goes back to having the intention.
Be clear, because you don't want to beat yourself up for going into the numbing experience.
Most of us do that.
We have some sort of numbing mechanism that we are drawn to.
Some people like to drink, some people like to eat, some people like to engage in other types of activities.
And I think recognizing it is important because we know okay, this is part of that type of behavior that isn't really serving me.
I'm recognizing it.
I'm consciously engaging in it and it's just going to be what it is.
My only ask is for you Matt, to not beat yourself up about it, you know, and to to really set the intention of understanding what.
What is it that's happening?
A
Looking to feel bad.
You know I have some artist friends that it's like the tortured artist and they like to live in this sort of experience.
And that is, you know, a different thing.
But but I feel like generally most people don't want to live in a state of despairing emotions.
We want to be able to be in a state of contentment, in a state of peace, in a state of clarity.
And when we don't have that experience anymore and we're not used to dealing with the tough emotions.
A lot of us will go towards doing things that are going to take our mind off of it.
Now, there are great ways to deal with those types of feelings.
You can go for a walk you can go, you know listen to music.
You can call a friend.
You can journal you know journal.
You can, you know, do an array of things that is going to help you work through emotions.
You can just sit there and name the emotions.
You can record a voice note of yourself talking through what you're going through.
And I think it's, it's part of the process.
I think when we too often engage in behaviors that aren't going to serve us, that are going to constantly numb, then we're not allowing the healing process to happen.
The healing process is nonlinear.
It's going to go and different cycles.
Sometimes you're going to feel totally fine, like everything's flowing, everything's great.
And then you will have those moments where things aren't feeling cohesive and they're not flowing and you might stumble a little bit.
But the idea is to pick yourself back up and not berate yourself when it happens.
Yeah.
Well, that's where the mindfulness practice comes in, right?
You notice you have these thoughts, start again.
And I, you know, and I think Matt, I would suggest, in addition to all that Rosie just said, is also, like you know yourself better than anyone.
Like I know, if I start a day with a walk or if I start the day journaling, if I start the day in a like a better place, I have a better shot for the day going well.
So look for the things that work for you and then be kind and forgive yourself when you have to start over again.
Cause it, cause you will, we all do.
Yeah.
All of these questions that we've answered today, from Colleen to Matt to Ned, it's all interconnected.
Everything touches everything.
These things that we go through in life.
They're so universal and we can all relate in some way, shape or form.
And I think that the more we realize that we're having this collective experience and people are here to support you people understand you I think it's gonna help us cope with any sort of emotional issues that we have in the future.
That's such a nice way to say it, Rosie.
It's like that we're all part of this community through experience.
Well said.
Rosie, I mean, that was intense, but it was absolutely beautiful.
I mean, I am always struck by, no matter how many problems people are facing, that there is always help in the form of love and community and therapeutic tools.
Yeah, I totally agree with that.
I've said this before.
I say it every time.
I love this community so much.
And I think it's really important for us to really focus on how we're all going through the same things together.
Absolutely.
All right.
Well, I would like to thank all of our callers today.
Colleen, Ned and Matt, thank you for trusting us with your questions.
And if you are listening at home and you heard something that sparked a question for you, I say don't be shy.
We would love to hear from you with all of your questions.
Just head over to sayhi.chat slash Dear Headspace to record your question.
And of course, that link is always in the show notes.
And if we use your question in a show, you are going to get three months of Headspace for free.
Yes, please reach out to us with your questions.
That's what we're here for.
And one last thing before we go.
We've built in a moment or two so you can transition before you get your day started.
This is some time to reflect on what you just experienced and settle your mind.
So here are some sounds of a fire by a campsite.
As you listen to crackling fire, let your mind do whatever it wants to do.
Until next time, stay happy, stay healthy. and be kind to each other.
Thank you.
Dear Headspace is a Headspace Studios original podcast.
It's produced by Robin Hopkins, Ash Jones, and Scott Sorenson.
It's executive produced by Morgan Selzer, Sarah Cohn, Barron Farmer, and Danny Karisamy.
Our production coordinator is Taylor Jennings-Brown.
It's hosted and produced by Robin Hopkins, Kaysonga Gaskombe, Dora Kamau, Samantha Snowden, Eve-Louise Prieto and Rosie Acosta.
Post-production is by Dan Kroll.
Music is by Scott Sorensen and Chris Mergia.
And a special thanks to Colleen Lutz.
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