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Can you use they for one person?
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Do you get confused when you hear native speakers use they and not refer to a specific gender?
There are actually five reasons we might do this in English.
Get all five of them today.
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Hey, Lindsay, how are you?
I'm doing pretty well today, Aubrey.
The sun is shining in Denver as usual.
Nice.
It's actually raining in Phoenix, which is very rare for us.
Yeah, that's very rare.
That's crazy.
I love it.
I love the smell when it rains.
Yeah, there's a different smell when it hits the pavement, especially if the pavement's warm.
Yeah, right.
I love it.
Yeah.
But I have a totally off-subject question for you.
Are you ready?
Yes, let's hear it.
Okay.
Do you ever use they to refer to one person?
Yeah, definitely.
There's actually five different ways that we do this in English.
So this happens a lot that I'll say they, because I don't know if it's a he or she, right?
There's different reasons.
Or maybe I'm protecting someone's anonymity.
So this is going to be interesting to dive into all of the reasons that you might say they when you're referring to just one person.
Yes, I love it.
And so there are a few questions we have today.
Yes, Aubrey, or is it just one question?
Yeah, we've gotten quite a few questions about using they for one person.
So we're going to share two of them here.
The first one was in YouTube.
Carlos said, I love your amazing podcast.
I'm using it to level up my English.
Question, is it correct to use they or them to refer to a single person? regards.
And then would you like to read the other one for us, Lindsay?
And then our wonderful listener Naoko said, thank you for always your helpful, informative episodes.
When you answer questions on YouTube, don't you use they instead of he or she?
I'd like to know why.
This is interesting.
Maybe, as we're responding to comments, if we've said they instead of he or she, and this listener is like huh, I'm curious about why.
Yeah, we're going to answer all these questions today.
This is a very important topic nowadays and really interesting.
We're going to cover it very exhaustively.
Right, Aubrey?
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Good.
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Okay.
Yes.
Awesome.
Okay.
Let's dive into the first.
Reason that we might use they for a single person, which is when the person's gender is unknown.
This is actually the most frequent use.
So, for example, if I were to say, someone left their laptop in the conference room, I hope they come back for it.
I don't know who it was.
I don't know their gender.
So I'm going to say they.
Yes.
Or if a customer calls, tell them I'll return the message soon.
So you're going to say them, right?
This is a hypothetical customer that might call.
So we're not going to say he or she, we'll just say them.
Yeah.
I mean, you could say he or she, but that just takes so long, you know?
And it was interesting as I was sort of researching to make sure I covered all the ways we do this.
More and more I was seeing online that that's actually.
It feels outdated to a lot of people to say he or she or to just choose one or the other to say he or she when we don't know.
So I was like, that's really interesting.
So this is more like a modern way of speaking to say they instead.
Yeah.
So that's reason one when we just don't know the gender.
Then number two, what's the second reason?
Number two is when you are avoiding assuming gender.
So polite English avoids assumptions in a lot of different ways.
Yeah.
For example, I might say Maggie invited a coworker to happy hour.
She said they will be here in about an hour.
So I don't know the gender of this coworker.
I'm not going to assume it.
I'll just say they.
Right.
Or every student must submit their application by Friday.
Submit their application by Friday.
Right.
Yeah.
So this is maybe a teacher saying something.
It's sort of just like in general.
One student, each student, not going to assume gender, we'll just use that pronoun there.
Yeah, and this is probably the example that Naoko was getting to.
I think Naoko was getting to when we announce, you know, students' names when they submit questions.
Sometimes we'll read the name, but then we still don't know whether it's a female name or a male name.
So then we will say they, right?
To refer to that student.
That makes sense.
I didn't realize that's what was being asked.
But yes, often with a name, we won't know the gender.
We don't want to assume.
So we'll say they or them or their.
Love it.
So this keeps it inclusive neutral, and it helps you avoid accidentally misgendering someone, which we don't want to do.
Right.
Which we definitely have possibly accidentally done.
So we apologize when we just have someone's name.
Or sometimes it's a YouTube handle with just like letters and numbers.
So we try not to assume gender, but we may accidentally say he or she sometime.
Yeah, for sure.
And that gets into number three.
This is a big one, right?
Yeah.
So this is when a person identifies as non-binary and uses they, them pronouns.
So in this case, they is the person's correct singular pronoun.
Exactly.
So what this looks like is Alex said they will join the meeting at three.
Right.
Yep.
Or Taylor brought their proposal for review.
So, because they identify as non-binary, a lot of people will announce their pronouns now or have them in social media or LinkedIn so that we know, because otherwise we won't always know what pronouns someone uses.
Yeah.
And I think the important thing to get across here is as long as you are making an effort, like you're acknowledging that they're going by they and you're trying.
And we all make mistakes here.
You know, I have some people very close to me in my life that have this, for example, a partner of a good friend of mine.
And even on phone calls when I'm asking about my friend's partner.
I'll make a mistake, but then I just apologize and correct it.
It's that simple, right?
It doesn't have to be more complicated than that.
Yes.
And in my experience...
You know, people are kind.
Right.
And they they're not going to necessarily be offended automatically.
They're giving us grace.
Right.
I have the same situation with a friend's child who I have to remember sometimes to use them.
And I've made mistakes and they're usually quite understanding.
Yeah, completely.
So this is like, it's a connection piece here too, right?
It's a connection moment.
If you make the effort, you will be able to connect and maintain that relationship.
That's a good one.
That's a big one.
There's a lot going on right now.
And politics around this, we won't go into all that.
But let's go into number four, Aubrey.
Perfect.
So number four is for hypothetical examples.
So if you're speaking generally, like giving rules, instructions or describing just a person in general, a hypothetical person, then we would use they them, for example.
If anyone has concerns, they should contact HR, who will get back to them right away.
Yeah, it feels more institutional, more about procedures, right, Aubrey?
As you said, rules, instructions...
Exactly.
It's putting some distance in between whoever's saying that and the people, right?
And it's interesting.
You know what I was saying about modern English.
I'm realizing if we say he or she here, we are also excluding anyone who identifies as they them pronouns.
Right.
So that's another reason to say they instead.
Exactly.
A good manager listens to their team, right?
Another example.
Yeah, same thing here, right?
We're just talking about these individual team members.
We're going to use they or their.
And then lastly, when the speaker deliberately is hiding the identity of a person to protect privacy or to respect anonymity, maybe.
Right, right.
Exactly.
So for example, someone told me they weren't happy with the new schedules.
Yeah.
So, right.
You've been told by someone and you're going.
If you're saying this to someone else, you don't want to call out their gender to maybe narrow down.
Maybe there's only one woman on the team.
And so if you say someone told me she's not happy, you have given up their identity.
Yes, exactly.
And this can be harder than than you realize.
If you try to try to do this, as you're having a conversation, you have to be very present.
Absolutely not give up an identity.
Yeah, it's really tricky.
Or another example is a colleague mentioned, they're feeling overwhelmed.
So I'm helping cover part of their workload.
Yeah, and this you don't want to call out.
You know, maybe they told you this in privacy and you don't want it to be clear who you're talking about.
So you're just going to say they?
Or there could be other scenarios, like when someone, if someone's pregnant and they're getting a scan and they don't want to know the gender of the baby, the technician has to speak in a very
Very intentional way to say, oh, baby has just moved baby's head.
Right.
It has to be.
So this happens in a lot of different scenarios in English, Aubrey.
Yeah.
Good point.
Right.
The baby has just moved its head.
They have moved their head.
Exactly.
It actually is very unnatural sometimes.
Yeah.
Interesting.
Okay, let's move into a role play, Aubrey.
Shall we do it?
Yeah, you and I are at a lunch discussing a party that we are hosting tonight.
Okay.
All right.
Someone left their phone on the cafe counter.
Oh, well, if they come back soon, it'll still be there.
By the way, my friend is bringing a guest to the party tonight, but I don't know their name.
Oh, I'm excited to meet them.
Jamie is coming too.
They said they might be a bit late because of work.
Nice.
I'm glad they can make it.
If anyone arrives early, they can help me set up.
Oh, and someone told me they're coming, but they want you to be surprised, so I can't tell you who it is.
Oh, exciting.
I can't wait to see everyone.
Nice.
All right.
So yeah, there's lots of all of them here.
Yeah, very interesting here.
So let's go through it all.
So the first one is...
I said someone left their phone on the cafe counter.
So this is the scenario one where the gender is just unknown.
How would we know?
It's just a person who left the phone, right?
Exactly.
We don't know who left their phone.
So we're going to say someone left their phone.
They left their phone.
And even if just a caveat, even if let's say like, because colors are so gendered sometimes right, let's say, like the phone is pink and sparkly, we still don't know whether it's a female's phone, and we still wouldn't go and say someone left her phone right.
Would you agree?
That's a really good point, or we shouldn't?
Anyway, my friend's um son he's uh, 12 now loves pink and rainbows and absolutely you could never guess his gender based on the phone he's going to choose exactly.
Pink's a great color for both genders.
So you know, there you go.
And then I said, oh well, if they come back it'll still be there.
So just again, same thing, gender unknown.
So I say if they come back.
Yeah.
You just don't know the person.
You don't know the gender.
Then I said by the way, my friend is bringing a guest to the party tonight, but I don't know their name.
So and here you're just avoiding assumptions.
Number two.
Right.
So you say, I don't know their name.
Right.
Right.
Right.
Like if your friend's a guy, you're not going to assume that he's bringing a guy.
Right.
You're just going to say this.
Right.
Exactly.
And then I said, I'm excited to meet them.
And so I again, I'm going to say them because we don't know the gender of this person.
And then I said, Jamie's coming too.
They said they might be late because of work.
And this is number three.
This is a non-binary person's pronouns.
So my friend Jamie, who uses they, them pronouns, I would say Jamie's coming.
They said they might be late.
Yeah.
Nice.
And then the next one is the same category saying, nice, I'm glad they can make it, right?
So once I picked up on the fact that you are using the gender non-binary pronoun, I'm going to repeat it right.
I'm going to go along with that, of course.
Yep.
I'm glad they can make it.
Though, of course, if you haven't met my friend, Jamie, you wouldn't know gender here.
So you would still say they, it would be the other not assuming gender to say oh, I'm glad they can make it.
Oh, tricky, tricky, tricky.
All right.
What about if anyone arrives early, they can help me set up.
And this is that hypothetical person.
Number four, this sort of general rule.
They can help me set up even if it's one person.
Yeah, exactly.
We don't know who's going to arrive early.
It's anonymous.
Right.
And then I said, oh, and someone told me they're coming, but they want you to be surprised.
So I can't tell you who it is.
Yeah, this is that number five, hiding someone's identity.
I'm going to be surprised by someone.
So you're careful to say they.
Yes.
Excellent.
Wow.
This is so they is indeed everywhere in English, Aubrey.
Absolutely.
And there are five totally separate different ways to use it.
It's like you were saying, Lindsay, sometimes we're using it because we're trying to be respectful.
We're being careful.
And sometimes it just makes sense because we don't know someone's gender or we're trying to not assume.
Yeah, really good episode.
And I think it's going to be very important for a lot of our listeners.
Right.
This is a huge connection skill and it really matters.
Definitely.
Yeah.
I'm really excited to have covered this.
I'm excited for you guys out there, which we've gotten a lot of questions about this.
So we know this is on your minds.
This is an interesting thing about English.
So, yeah, happy to cover this today.
All right, Aubrey.
See you next time.
You have a good rest of your day.
You too.
Thanks, Lindsay.
Bye.
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