This is an All Ears English podcast, episode 778.
So versus such and the best way to eat lobster rolls in Maine, USA.
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With your American hosts Lindsay McMahon, the English adventurer, and Michelle Kaplan, the New York radio girl, coming to you from Boston and New York City, USA.
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Today, we answer a listener question about the difference between so and such.
Plus, we'll tell you where to get the best donuts and lobster rolls in the state of Maine.
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Hey, Michelle.
What's going on?
Hey, Lindsay.
Not too much.
So, Lindsay, you're going on vacation pretty soon, right?
Oh, yeah.
I'm leaving tomorrow.
Oh, wow.
What are you doing?
Well, I'm going camping in Acadia National Park and whitewater rafting in Maine.
Oh, wow.
That should be so exciting.
Yeah, it is.
I've done it once before.
Um, it's such a good idea for a vacation.
Sorry, I didn't hear you there.
Um, but it's such a good idea for a vacation, getting active and being outside.
Yep.
It's my kind of vacation.
Okay.
Awesome.
Is that, is that your kind of vacation, Michelle?
Do you like doing like, like what kind of vacation do you like, Michelle?
I like exploring cities, honestly.
I do like doing outdoor things as well.
But I think right now I'm like in this like kind of city mood.
The city mood.
That's interesting.
Yeah, I think I'm just the opposite.
I'm more of like...
These days I'd rather be like camping or doing something like on the river or something, because part of our vacation we actually went to Portland, Maine at the very end.
We came down from the national park and went to Portland.
And Portland's actually a really cool city.
But when we got there, you know it was really hot and we were in line to get on a ferry to go to an island.
And I was just like, oh, too many people.
City shock.
City shock.
City shock, you know?
Yeah, yeah, sure.
I don't know.
It's crazy.
I don't know what it is with me, because I live in a city obviously, and I still want to go to cities.
I don't know.
I guess I'm just like a true city girl.
You're a city girl.
That's okay.
Hey, we got to know ourselves, right?
For sure.
But whitewater rafting is fun.
Oh, my God.
We're going to talk about it a little bit more later this week.
I've made an episode about it, actually.
So we'll talk about it.
We'll talk about it.
Don't worry.
Okay, cool.
So Michelle, in this conversation, we use both so and such.
And how do we use them?
Right.
So with so, we said that should be so exciting.
Exactly.
We said so exciting.
And then what about such?
It's such a good idea for a vacation.
Exactly.
So what is the key difference?
I mean, that's really what we're talking about today, right?
Yeah, absolutely.
So that's what, you know, we have a listener question, don't we?
We do.
Why don't we just go ahead and read the question first, and then we'll jump in to let our listeners know how to not make this mistake, how to not get confused here.
Perfect.
Okay.
Can you read for us?
Sure.
Okay.
Hi, girls.
First of all, thank you so much for your amazing job.
I'm from Costa Rica.
Every day I listen to you.
I appreciate your tips and advice.
Please keep going forward.
Okay, we will.
We will.
Thank you.
Sometimes I get confused about the usage of so and such.
If you can give us some tips on how to use them correctly, I'll be grateful.
Regards.
Okay, we don't have the name.
We lost the name.
Okay, well, anyways, have you ever been to Costa Rica, Michelle?
Awesome country.
Super fun.
I haven't.
It's on my list.
Awesome.
Yeah.
Oh, my gosh.
I would love to.
Very good place to go.
So it's a good question that this listener brought up, right?
You know the difference is pretty straightforward, but when you go out into conversation you might get confused, guys.
So that's why we want to start learning this in chunks and listening closely to what natives are saying, until it becomes natural.
But let's go to the dictionary, right?
When we're confused, we just go to the Cambridge Dictionary.
So sometimes it confuses us more, but sometimes it does.
So when do we use such?
What is such?
So such is a determiner.
And what is so?
And so is an adverb.
Grammar, grammar, grammar.
Yeah, blah, blah, blah, grammar.
Let's make it, let's bring it to life.
Let's focus on connection, not perfection and give some examples here.
So do they have the same meaning?
Yeah, they often have the same meaning, right?
So, it means basically very or to this degree.
So, for example, those are such good chocolates or those chocolates are so good.
Yeah.
Exactly.
Exactly.
So you're saying the same thing, right, Michelle?
I am.
Yeah.
And sometimes the tone of voice is different.
Like I noticed how you use the different tone of voice.
Those are such good chocolates.
You kind of stopped there.
Yeah.
And then for the so, you said, these chocolates are so good, right?
Yeah, yeah, I did.
It's like kind of like a song.
So good.
Exactly, exactly.
So let's go back to the examples here.
So when it comes to such, when do we actually use such?
Okay, so such is used with a noun phrase, guys.
Okay.
Yeah, so for example, you are such a great driver, right?
No one ever tells me that.
I'm a terrible driver.
Okay.
Oh, my gosh.
Or, for example, it's been such a hot summer, right?
Yep.
What else?
Boston?
Yeah, Boston is such a cool city for young people, and I'm going to get to go soon.
I know you're coming on our trip, the Boston Adventures in August.
We're so glad you're going to be able to join us, Michelle.
It's going to be awesome.
It's going to be so cool.
So cool.
Yeah, so cool.
Right.
But Michelle, could we could we say this?
I mean, does this does this make sense?
Boston is so a cool city for young people.
No, that wouldn't really work.
No, it wouldn't work.
And why not?
Well, it's because so is used with an adjective or sorry, with adjective or adverb phrases, but not noun phrases.
And the noun phrase was a cool city.
Exactly.
So that's why we can't use so there.
We need such a cool city.
Although I will say that I sometimes hear people use this like in a I don't know like, almost like a sarcastic or correcting way.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
Like let's say I said, ah, Lindsay, Boston stinks.
I don't like it.
And you would say, excuse me, Michelle, Boston is so a cool city.
You know, like it's almost like.
Like very playful or informal.
By the way, I think Boston is great for the times I've been there.
Yeah, I see what you mean, Michelle.
So this is a really good example of when our listeners...
You know, if you guys feel like you're at the level that you understand the so and such and how it's used, then you're ready to see the variations, right.
It's like you learn the basics of playing guitar and then you can go out and kind of create your own song, your own songs and your own music, right?
Exactly.
You can improvise.
I think that's the right analogy here, guys.
So you decide what your level is.
If you are not ready for what Michelle just talked about.
That's a very native, very kind of like idiomatic kind of natural expression that natives use like spontaneously, then don't worry about that.
But if you're ready for it, you're going to start to hear it around.
Absolutely.
So I wanted to bring it up, but feel free to ignore me.
Yeah, basically.
Yeah, no, I like that.
That's true, Michelle.
And we can talk about that more maybe in a different episode.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Love it.
Okay.
What about so?
Okay.
So, so is used with adjective or adverb phrases.
So, this book is so interesting.
Right.
So, we have an adjective there.
This book is so interesting, right?
Or we have an adverb.
Right.
Why do you drive so fast?
Exactly.
Exactly.
So, sometimes we can take the same phrase like we did with the chocolate, right?
And we can say it in the same thing and just use both, right?
So, for example, if I say, Michelle, this house is so dirty.
How would you say that using such?
You could say, this is such a dirty house.
Exactly.
And oh my God, speaking of potato, sorry, I have to stop.
I have to tell you about potato donuts.
When we were in Maine, so normally donuts are made with, I don't know, bread and just oil, right?
Grease.
Do you like donuts?
Yes, but I try to stay away.
Okay.
Well, there's this place in Maine called the Holy Donut and they've been featured on TV.
So it's the real deal, guys.
They use potato as the core ingredient in their donuts and it makes them like a bit heavier, which makes sense for Maine weather.
But I've really started to become addicted to their donuts.
They're really good.
Is it still like a regular donut, like a chocolate, you know, like sweet?
Yeah, they have all these interesting like artisanal flavors, deep chocolate with sea salt, you know all that kind of fancy stuff.
But it's just like, it looks like a donut.
It's a normal donut with a hole in it.
But it's just a bit more, it's a bit heavier.
It's a more substantial kind of snack.
Yeah.
So I recommend that, guys.
Yeah.
If you're in Maine, guys, go check out the Holy Donut in Portland, Maine.
So cool.
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So here's our example sentence with so.
Potato donuts are so yummy.
Or, potato donuts are such a yummy breakfast.
Yeah, exactly.
Okay, so you guys can see here how you again it means the same thing.
These two words so and such.
You just need to set up the sentence a little bit differently.
Exactly.
Do you agree, Michelle?
Yes, absolutely.
So we have a couple bonuses to let our listeners sound more natural, right?
So first of all, where are we putting the stress on so or such?
Like, I mean, let's just show our listeners the stress one more time.
For example...
Okay, so the ones, okay.
So I could say, you are so crazy.
Yeah, and we're exaggerating a little bit here for emphasis, but you know, you're so crazy, right?
You're so crazy.
Okay, we have the stress on that word.
Oh, also blueberry pie.
Oh, my gosh.
Maine has the best food ever.
Okay.
Blueberry pie is also famous in Maine.
And I had a nice slice when I was up there.
Nice.
So what would we say for that, Michelle?
You could say, this blueberry pie is so good.
Yeah.
Our listeners are going to think that anyone who travels to Maine is going to gain like 25 pounds with all these sweet snacks.
I know.
So good.
And then also when we have such, we're going to put the stress on it again.
You're such a bad driver.
Well, excuse me.
Just kidding.
So that's, guys, that's basically the difference between so and such.
We've really broken it down here.
And, you know, now what you want to do is start looking for it with natives.
Like, listen to natives using it and learn those chunks.
Okay?
Yeah, right.
Yeah.
Any other thoughts on that, Michelle?
Yeah.
Yeah, I think that's just, you know, keep your ears open and then start playing with it.
Yeah.
And then I wanted to add a bonus here, Michelle.
So have you ever heard when natives use such and such okay, like like, give me no not sorry, not.
Such and such and such using and such as, like an, etc.
Have you ever heard that?
Like natives using that?
Um yeah, but i think it sounds a little awkward, what do you think?
I mean, I think it sounds kind of articulate.
We can disagree on this.
But let's teach it to our listeners just so that they're aware of it and they know what it means.
So let me throw out an example, guys.
Sometimes native speakers use and such at the end of a list to kind of say things like that.
Right.
So, for example, you can put your clothes and shoes and such in this closet.
I actually think it sounds kind of articulate and kind of smart.
Yeah.
I mean, I guess it does sound kind of smart.
I'll just say maybe I'm not that smart.
No, I'm just joking.
Maybe I need to be more articulate.
Just kidding.
I think you're smart, Michelle.
Thank you, Lindsay.
No, but I don't know.
I don't use it and I don't hear it that much.
But like we're also guys, we talk about all the time like different people, different places.
You know like there's so many differences.
So just because I mean, I think it's good sometimes Lindsay when, like we say oh, I use this and I but you don't, it's like
It just goes to show you how different English is just even.
I mean, we're really, you know, not that far from each other in the country.
That's right.
And in terms of like lifestyle urban, young lifestyle.
We have a similar kind of setup in our lives but we use different words sometimes.
So that's fine.
I mean, let's throw out another example in case our listeners hear this or they want to try it.
Okay.
So, oh, in that drawer, you'll find markers and pens and such.
Oh, good intonation.
Thanks.
So, even though you don't use it, obviously as a native speaker, you know how to pronounce that and the intonation to use there.
So, guys, just, you know, if you don't know about that one, just listen for it.
See if you hear it.
It just means et cetera.
Really?
Right.
I mean, I think you'll hear it.
I mean, just because I don't in my circle, I don't hear it.
I it's not like, oh, Lindsay said this.
And I was like, what are you talking about?
Like, I've definitely I've definitely heard it.
So maybe it's not in my speech, but I know it.
Yeah, exactly.
So yeah, just keep your eyes open for it.
And you guys can use it if you want to.
Right.
So.
All right, cool.
So now we've done that.
Let's go just go into a little role play here.
And oh, my gosh, surprise, surprise.
We're talking about food in Maine again.
Oh, yeah.
It's just like it's a great place to do like a food vacation, you know?
Oh, nice.
So good.
Okay.
Here we go.
So let's see.
Michelle, would you be A?
I would be A. Yes.
I'm feeling very A today.
Okay.
Very A. A list.
A list.
Yes.
Okay.
Did you know that Maine is famous for lobster?
Oh, yeah.
I heard lobster is so good up there.
Did you get any when you were up there?
Oh, yeah.
I had like three lobster rolls in Maine.
Couldn't pass it up.
What was it served with?
What is it served with?
Oh, it depends on where you get it, but you got to have the sweet bun and I go for mayo instead of butter.
Well, what comes with it?
I think when they serve it with a sweet pickle, it makes such a nice addition to the plate.
Yeah.
And what do people drink with lobster rolls usually?
Oh, you know, beer, soda and such and such.
Beer, soda and such.
And sorry.
Oh, you know, beer, soda and such.
Whatever is refreshing.
Lobster rolls are an icon of the summertime.
I'm going to go get one when I'm up in Boston.
Cool.
I think the role play was supposed to be reversed there.
I think you were supposed to be B and I was supposed to be A, but that's okay.
It's okay.
It's okay.
Connection, not perfection.
Right, Michelle?
That's the point.
So guys, again, lobster is also very famous in Maine.
It's probably on the East Coast.
It's probably the place to get lobster.
I mean, Michelle, you're from the Mid-Atlantic.
So for you, you guys are all about crab, right?
That's like your kind of, is that correct?
Yeah, I'm from Maryland.
So Maryland is famous for crab.
OK, perfect.
So if you are in Maine, get lobster.
If you're in Maryland, get crab.
So good.
So good.
Yeah.
So let's highlight where we used such here.
And so I don't think we use so actually.
No, we did.
We did.
We did.
So where did we use it?
OK, so it's a I heard I heard the lobster is so good up there.
So true.
I want to go back and get more.
All right.
And then where did we use such?
Okay.
It says when they serve it with a sweet pickle, it makes such a nice addition to the plate.
Awesome.
Okay.
And then we used and such, and I confused you a bit, Michelle.
Sorry about that.
That was my fault because I wrote this.
And then you said, what do people drink with lobster rolls?
And I said, oh, you know, beer, soda, and such.
That one for me felt a little awkward, maybe because this was a casual conversation, a little less formal.
But or maybe, you know, it depends.
But again, it just means et cetera and such.
Right.
Okay.
So you guys, really what you should be doing is going out listening to native speakers and then you decide if you want to use that.
Okay.
Absolutely.
Awesome.
So Michelle, you're going to go to Maine sometime soon and get some lobster rolls?
I would love to go to Maine.
So we'll see.
Maybe next summer.
All right.
Very cool.
Okay, guys.
So let's wrap it up for today.
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Okay.
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All right.
Cool.
All right, Michelle, thanks for hanging out today.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Have a good one.
Talk to you soon.
Bye.
Bye.
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