This is an all-ers English podcast, episode 22-08, Politics or Pivot.
English Conversation Tactics for Devasive Topics.
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Sometimes you want to talk about a controversial issue like climate change,
but you need to feel it out and see if the other person is game to talk about that too.
Today, learn three ways to guide your conversations in the direction of connection when you talk about
controversial issues.
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Hello, Lindsay. How are you?
I'm doing good today, Aubrey.
How's everything in your world today?
Excellent.
Excellent. I have a question to start us out today.
Do you enjoy chatting with friends about polarizing topics, divisive topics?
I think it depends on the friend.
Yeah, very much so.
It depends on who I talk to.
Some people are good at separating themselves and kind of their egos from the topic.
I enjoy those conversations because it becomes more intellectual, more theoretical, more
abstract. And I love that.
I love that kind of topic.
But when people take things really personally, it can be hard.
It can be really hard.
Yeah.
I agree.
100%.
I'm the same.
It depends on who I'm talking to.
It depends on how open we are to each other's opinions.
Otherwise, it could just be contentious, which is not fun.
Unfortunately, I feel like now we're in a political moment where it just doesn't happen anymore.
I think a lot of the politicians in the US are retiring or passing away that once it used to be
able to reach across the aisle and actually have friendships like Joe Lieberman.
He just passed away.
And he was a Democrat that apparently had a very strong friendship with John McCain or Republican.
And I feel like sadly, I'm not sure that that would happen now.
Or maybe it does what we don't know about it.
We don't see it on the news because it doesn't catch headlines.
Right.
And I wish we would could hear about it more because yeah, I think when people reach across
party lines, that's when real progress is able to be made, right?
I love sort of that moderate mindset of listening to all sides and really trying to be more cohesive.
Unified.
Yeah.
Yeah, and today's episode is not really about politics, but it's interesting to think which way
does it flow? Does what's going on with the people in society flow up to politics where the
politicians can have those friendships across the aisle or is it vice versa?
Because there aren't friendships across the aisle that people are getting divided.
I don't know, but something's going on right now.
Around this is really interesting.
We got this great question about a topic that can be quite polarizing.
And we want to share with you guys some really good tips for discussing controversial topics
in English. We tried out about one really recently when we talked about diamonds, right?
Episode 2192, what about diamonds?
How to approach controversial topics in English?
And we got another question about something else similar.
Be sure to scroll up.
Listen to that one if you missed it.
And we're diving into another controversial topic today.
Yeah.
And this question came in through YouTube. And by the way, guys, if you don't know,
we have a YouTube channel.
And a lot of our listeners consume our show over there on YouTube because you can see us on video.
So go and check it out. Go to YouTube. Type in all there's English.
Hit subscribe today. This is from Julian Estabon.
Aubrey, would you like to read the question from Julian?
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Hello, Lindsay and Aubrey. I've been listening to the podcast for a long time.
It's always fun with valuable content to improve every day.
Thank you. That's amazing. We love to hear it.
We do.
I have a question.
I'm not sure how to approach a conversation about environmental pollution and climate change.
I have tried, but it turns out to be very brief.
I'd like to know some vocabulary and common phrases about this to deepen the conversation.
Thank you so much. Have a good one.
Such a great question.
Yes. And so important.
We can't not talk about these things, but we have to find a way to do it.
And then when you say you're doing it in another language,
it adds a level of challenge that we're here today for our listeners.
Right, Aubrey?
Exactly. Absolutely.
And we do have to keep in mind that this could be a polarizing topic.
I personally know quite a few people who don't believe in climate change,
who have very different, you know, just lots of different extremes and opinions.
And some people who just haven't read a lot about it aren't very knowledgeable,
including myself. I know there's a lot that I could learn.
So we want to keep that in mind.
What does that mean polarizing, Lindsay?
You think about two polls, right?
We have like the North Pole, the South Pole.
Things are very divided.
People are not in the middle.
They're on one side or the other.
And that's where we're talking about the top of the show.
Our politics these days are very polarizing.
And unfortunately, climate change is a political issue.
I personally wish it wasn't a political issue.
I wish it was just a human issue.
Right.
But that's how it is.
Yeah.
So let's get into it, Aubrey.
Yeah.
So because any topic like this, whether it's politics, religion,
climate change, whatever it is, if you know the person you're talking to might disagree,
or just might not be interested for whatever reason doesn't want to talk about it,
the conversation might be brief, right?
Like this listener noticed.
And you might just have to change the topic, right?
You can't insist on making the conversation longer if the other person really disagrees or really
isn't interested.
So that's the first thing sort of we're going to share some tips today about what to do,
how to start the conversation and how to read the room so that when you're starting a potentially
controversial conversation, you know where to take it or how if you should end it.
Okay.
Good.
So what do we need to know first?
Where should we know, Aubrey, before we are first this conversation?
Yeah.
Our first step is to be open-minded, right?
If there's a chance that the person you're speaking to won't agree with your opinions,
we have to be careful about the language we use.
It's really easy to say something that will give the impression that you think you're right
and everyone else is wrong or ignorant.
And that can just cut the connection off, right?
Before you even start the conversation, right, Lindsay?
Yeah.
And what would be, I don't know if this is in our plan today,
but what would be some key words that would, you'd be using that would be doing that,
maybe not even realizing it.
I think of words like obviously or everyone knows, we all know,
we start with like, I can't believe anyone doesn't think
like you've been in your share your opinion.
Exactly.
Right.
Or if you think X, then this, right?
So these are sweeping statements that could immediately shut down the connection
without you even realizing it.
Yeah.
Exactly.
So instead, the goal, if we want to have a conversation about something where someone might disagree,
the goal right from the outset before you say anything
is to be open-minded, tolerant, inclusive of others' opinions,
so that it actually is a conversation and not a lecture,
not you lecturing them about what you think that they should agree with.
Yeah, because it's not, you know, with these really divisive issues,
it's not about knowledge, right?
It's about digging into opinions and it gets personal.
So your lecture isn't going to bring you closer in agreement.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Right. So if you can feel within yourself that you're not in a position where you can be tolerant
of the other side of the issue, this is a good example.
I think climate change.
I think there would be a lot of people who feel so strongly one way or the other
that they recognize.
Like, I can't have a constructive conversation, a respectful conversation where I can listen to
another opinion without disagreeing them and getting really passionate.
If so, this might be a topic to avoid.
Oh, for sure.
For sure.
Yes, I love that.
And then number two is read the room like this expression.
Read the room.
What does that mean when we read the room?
Exactly.
Right.
We're really paying attention to the body language as well as what said of the people
you're talking to.
And right away when you first bring it up for something that's potentially divisive
like this, potentially contentious.
We can read the room to see if the other person is even open to discuss it.
Same for politics, religion, anything controversial.
Yeah.
So for example, you might start something, you're what you say by saying a lot of us get
our information on podcasts these days, right?
So you might say I was listening to a podcast about climate change that was pretty eye-opening.
All right.
And then stop.
And then what do we do?
Yeah.
Then so to read the room, you gauge their reaction.
Right?
If it's positive and they seem interested, then you might continue with an interesting fact.
So you will be able to see if they meet eye contact, depending on their tone of voice.
You read all of their reactions.
Read their body language.
Are they closing in like, ooh, I don't feel comfortable talking about this?
Or are they interested in opening up?
And if it's positive, they're interested.
You might say, you know, it said renewable energy is the key to a safer future.
What do you think about that?
So you're like sharing one detail you learned asking their opinion.
And then you again, again, gauge their reaction.
Okay.
And then I'm interested in what if you get kind of the downward eye contact.
You get a signal when you read the room that they're not in agreement with you.
They don't want to talk about it.
What would you do then?
Would you pivot?
Yes.
And this is where I love starting it with.
And I know I recommend this on the podcast before, but to start it with.
I was listening to a podcast about blank because it's a very easy pivot.
If they are clearly not interested.
And they just are kind of like, huh?
Or something like they're clearly not interested.
You could just say, what about you?
Have you heard any interesting podcasts lately?
And they're opening them to totally change the subject by sharing something they've
listened to on a podcast.
Or if they don't listen to podcasts, what do they know?
Do they watch TV?
Change the subject.
No problem.
You can chat with about this with someone else.
Interesting.
So this is a connection episode today.
Right?
Because we're show it's kind of like politics or pivot.
Right?
Do you want to talk about this with me?
Can we have this conversation or do I need to pivot to?
And I love the podcast concept.
I'll bring it where it's just some medium.
Right?
It's a way of consuming.
It could be TV shows.
I'm watching a movie.
What are their movies?
Have you watched lately?
It's a pivotable and a question opener.
Right?
It's a way we could move.
I like that.
Exactly.
It avoids that potential awkwardness.
If you broach a topic and they clearly don't want to talk about it.
That there might be sort of an awkward choppy transition to something else.
This is not that.
It's a very easy like what about you?
What podcast do you love?
No problem.
That's pretty well thought out.
And sometimes when we do go into these conversations, we have to have that.
It's almost prescripted a little bit.
We need to have some tricks up our sleeve.
The back up is they don't want to talk about it.
Because you're talking about relationships that could really matter.
These aren't necessarily strangers.
This could be a brother-in-law, sister-in-law.
It could be someone who knows an important work contact.
Right?
These could be important relationships.
You want to make sure you maintain.
Right.
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Okay.
So we've got some really good ideas on how to pivot.
Then what would be number three?
What would be the third tip?
Yes.
So if it turns out someone is interested in wants to have this conversation,
it can be sort of a mistake if you all of a sudden realize
I actually don't really know anything about this.
So number three is just to be informed.
Right?
If you've listened to a podcast, read a couple articles,
then you'll have some interesting things to say.
And of course, don't be that me monster.
Ask questions, find out about their opinion, make like you said, Lindsay,
it's not a lecture.
You're finding out their opinion or really diving deep to,
because your goal is to find out about this person that you care about,
know about, want to know more about, find out their opinion.
Yeah.
And be open to not just being well informed,
but being willing to be corrected.
Maybe make sure your information's coming from a trustworthy source.
Always be validating your sources.
Always be open to learning new information.
Right?
I think that's another piece that we want to make.
Yeah.
Okay.
So we want to share a couple of role plays here,
because we've shared that these,
this, when you start this conversation,
it can go two different ways.
They might be uninterested.
They might be interested.
So let's share both role plays.
First,
Lindsay and I are good friends here,
getting a coffee together and we're going to share
what it looks like if someone is not interested in the topic.
All right.
So it sounds like here we're going to see a pivot,
right?
We're going to see a pivot in the conversation.
All right.
Let's get ahead.
All right.
So hey, I was listening to a podcast about climate change.
It was pretty eye opening.
Oh, uh-huh.
Well, what about you?
Have you listened to any interesting podcasts lately?
Yes.
I just discovered a true cram podcast
called Counter-Clock that I love.
Okay.
This is so good.
This is a really different way, right?
This has happened to me before, right?
Because I love talking about interesting
controversial issues,
but like, I'm careful to gauge,
like, are they interested?
If not, quick pivot away.
Let's talk about something else.
I don't want it to be uncomfortable.
Yeah.
I resonate with this.
I've seen a real difference.
And it's not better or worse.
It's just different.
But in my social interactions on the East Coast,
in New England,
and it's like Boston,
Cambridge, Massachusetts,
heavy academic town versus Denver,
I've seen that there's less.
It's not that people believe in this
or don't believe in that.
It's not political.
Is that there seems to be less interest
in talking about these issues.
And there's a lot of talk about skiing,
which is great.
Sometimes I get a little bored.
But then I just have to know,
like, this particular person,
we're going to relate on this level.
And that has to be okay.
I'm going to seek out friends
where I can talk about bigger issues
in a more abstract way another day.
Right?
So it's not always just,
oh, this is going to be a hot button issue
and we're going to be attacking each other.
Maybe it's just,
we don't relate on that level.
We don't connect on that level.
Right?
And it's also really interesting to think about
having lived a long time in the West.
I have found that once I really get
deep and get to know someone well,
they are interested.
They are reading about it.
But in general,
the average person in the Western US
is less confrontational,
less willing to have the conversation.
That might be divisive,
less willing to disagree to someone to their face.
So they're avoiding the conversation
because they're avoiding all of that.
Interesting.
So there could be a lot of different reasons
why you'd get that response.
Denver's a city of transplant.
So people are coming from all over
all over the country.
And it's interesting.
A vibe of a place.
Right?
So,
all right.
Coming to Denver,
maybe there are a little more laid back
and a little left.
Yeah.
Probably.
Let's do the
interested role play.
Yeah, I was going to hear.
Whereas in Boston,
you're getting people who are just like
digging in.
Maybe they just want to class
and they studied that issue.
And they want to work it out.
In, you know,
over coffee,
they want to talk through it
and see what they really think.
You know, it's different.
Yeah.
Interesting.
Okay.
Okay.
So same situation.
Let's see.
But just two different people here.
Right?
So I'll start us out.
I was listening to a podcast
about climate change
that was pretty eye opening.
Ooh, interesting.
So what they say.
Well, they were saying
that destructive storms
have become more intense and frequent
because of global warming.
I didn't realize that was an effect.
Did you?
I guess that makes sense.
I hadn't really thought about it.
I hadn't either.
So I started looking into it more.
I was reading about pollution
not long ago,
but I know there's a lot I don't know.
So what else have you found out lately?
Nice.
So I love how this conversation is
opening up and it all like
that's the difference in the reaction.
Where instead of like,
Oh, huh.
You were like, Oh, interesting.
What did they say?
And from that, I'm like, Oh, perfect.
We're going to talk about this.
And I'll continue to gauge as it goes
because you might want to talk about it
for a little bit,
but then change the subject.
Or we might both be really interested
in want to dive deep.
Right.
We just did an episode
about nerding out and geeking out.
Right?
There are people that are going to
want to talk about any given topic
for hours at a time.
And there are some people
that will entertain it for a few minutes.
And then they want to move on to their weekend
or something else.
Nothing's better or worse.
It's just, uh, it's just personalities.
Yeah.
Also, the other might depend on their mood.
How much sleep do they get?
Are they just kind of in the zone
of wanting to have a deep conversation?
For sure.
And I think the piece that we need to include here
is having input.
So I know there's something going on
that was just in the news this week
about climate change that now they're looking to.
Have you seen this?
They're looking to engineer
brightening clouds where they want to shoot moisture
up into the clouds to try to mitigate the effects of
global warming, like the warming temperature on Earth.
Have you seen this?
Is brand new?
They just tried it out.
Yeah.
So having that input, this is how these conversations
could start is by getting this input.
Podcast, newspapers, TV shows, the news, right?
Go after the...
You could have this conversation instead of,
oh, they were saying destructive things.
You're like, they were saying that they're
shooting moisture into the clouds.
So like, wow, that's interesting.
Yeah, it sounds wild.
I feel it sounds like it seems like a...
I'm not sure if it's going to work,
but I guess the signs initially were pretty good
from what I heard on the podcast.
So any takeaway here, Aubrey,
we've got a lot of interesting stuff that came out today.
Yes, for sure.
And I think the bottom line is
when tackling a controversial topic,
keep in mind that you must gauge the interest
in your conversation partner, right?
And be open-minded to their opinion.
But also recognize like it's going to be sort of
constantly reading the room,
gauging there so that you can pivot away if needed.
Yes, I love it.
And then keep in mind that I think it's important
what we also talked about.
You're right.
Sometimes people are more likely to talk about
divisive issues in certain parts of the country
or in certain mind states that they're in during the day.
But I think it's true that some regions consider it impolite
and threatening to even bring up these topics
and others consider it fair game.
This is how things get discussed.
It's fair game.
So think about where you are in the world.
And it'll be different.
Yeah, that's a very good point.
Oh, so interesting.
There's a lot here today.
I'm excited for you guys to potentially have these
conversations.
So follow these tips to right gauge interest,
read the room.
And hopefully you'll be able to have people in your life
who also want to dive deep into these interesting topics.
Well, super interesting, guys.
If you love our style, hit follow on the show.
Or if you're over on YouTube, hit subscribe.
All right, Aubrey.
Talk to you very soon.
Awesome. See you next time.
Bye.
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