This is an all-ere English podcast, episode 2192.
What about diamonds?
How to approach controversial topics in English?
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Welcome to the All-Ears English Podcast,
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Are you feeling stuck with your English?
We'll show you how to become fearless and fluent
by focusing on connection, not perfection
with your American host, Aubrey Carter, the Isle Twizz,
and Lindsey McMahon, the English Adventure.
Coming to you from Arizona and Colorado, USA.
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Do most people own a diamond ring where you live?
These days, we're becoming more and more aware of the conflict
involved with mining diamonds.
But how can you approach a conversation like this
where you might not reach human connection?
Find out today.
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Hello, Aubrey. How's it going today?
I'm great. How are you, Lindsey?
Oh, I'm excited about today's conversation.
We're going to learn a lot.
Um, Aubrey, how do you feel about diamonds?
What are your thoughts on diamonds, especially diamond rings?
Yes, I'm pretty opposed, actually.
I don't have a diamond because when I got married 20 years ago,
it was really the height of conflict diamonds in Africa.
There was some awareness building,
so I didn't want to have a diamond just in case it wasn't ethically sourced.
Yeah.
And as you know, recently, I was very much like my aunt and I
raised when you and Michelle were talking about
the phrase diamond in the rough.
And you sort of mentioned diamonds.
And so I actually reached out to Michelle.
I'm like, can I plan the follow-up?
Because I feel a little bit passionate about this topic.
I love it.
Oh, so, Aubrey, let's back up and talk about conversation.
Do you end up having conversations about diamonds sometimes?
Because it is such a controversial issue.
Do you end up in this conversation sometimes with people?
That's a really good question.
Because a lot of people notice that I don't have a diamond on my ring.
And that often has started the conversation.
People will ask, why?
Why don't I have a diamond?
Because most people in the United States do have a diamond in some form
on a wedding ring.
And mine is, I don't know if you can see on YouTube.
Maybe come and look, but mine is just gold and silver.
That I actually had an artist friend melt down and create our rings,
which is fun.
I love that.
And so I have had these conversations.
And they've gone very differently depending on the person.
I've really had to read the room.
Some people are open to find out why and not feel judged,
even if they have a diamond on their finger.
And other people immediately, I can feel the shift in the room.
If they don't want to hear about it or think about it,
or if they feel judged in some way.
And I just can't change the subject.
Yes.
And so, you know, on this, on the show,
we talk about connection, not perfection.
How can we find the connection moment
when we're talking about anything?
We are obsessed with that, right?
Absolutely.
But the fact is, Aubrey, not every conversation
is going to immediately lead to connection the way we want it to,
because the topic might be a hot button issue
for both people, but in different directions.
They disagree or they feel offended.
So what do we have to do, Aubrey?
We have to look for what when it comes to approaching these topics.
We have to look for signals, right?
We know this is a controversial issue.
Just like politics religion, there are things that
people will feel passionate or maybe they don't know about it at all.
You can look at their eyes.
You're going to see in their eyes if they're interested
or if they're shutting down.
You can see in their body language, in their tone,
and also their words, what they say when they respond.
If they say, oh, that's interesting.
I do have a diamond.
Right.
You can feel, you can feel from them.
How they feel about the topic.
And that will really inform the conversation.
Oh my gosh, for sure.
So that is going to be what we're going to get out of
today's episode.
And we're going to go into the actual topic,
the actual controversy today.
I am curious if this is more so,
if the consumption of diamonds, I have a feeling,
is heavier in the US versus let's say Western Europe.
I have a feeling, yes, but I'm not sure about that, Aubrey.
I'm wondering if we're going to learn that today.
We'll definitely have that be our poll.
So guys, we'll share our Spotify poll
because we would like to know.
We know, you know, I haven't, when I'm traveling,
I don't look at people's rings.
I haven't paid attention there.
Like is the market bigger in the US?
I have no idea.
Yeah, I don't really think to look.
A lot of people think about looking to see if someone's
married for whatever reason.
I don't look at people's ring fingers very much.
It just doesn't cross my mind to look at it.
It doesn't matter to me if someone's married.
I'm having the same conversation either way.
Exactly.
All right, so let's make sure our listeners
go back to the original episode where Michelle and I kind of
popped up this issue and then backed away from it
because we knew that we'd come back to this at some point.
Absolutely. It was episode 2169 of the
dollars and I guess pearls of English wisdom.
Yeah, we share amazing idioms when we talk about gems
and diamonds and pearls.
We use these idiomatically in English.
So if you miss that, go back, listen to it,
be sure to hit follow because you're missing great episodes.
Yes, I love it.
So all right, we know what we're talking about today.
We know what we're going to come away with in today's episode,
which is the skill to approach a difficult conversation.
Like diamonds.
Now let's talk about what exactly are we talking about?
We've to define some terms, right,
offers that we have words vocabulary to use in these conversations,
right?
Exactly because best case scenario that person you're talking to
will be interested and will want to have this conversation
and then you need some vocabulary.
So a few terms here.
The first one is conflict diamonds,
which I shared at the beginning.
What does that mean?
Let's see.
Okay, so there's another term sometimes used for this,
which is blood diamond.
I think there was a movie.
I want to say, literally, in our top of the year.
Right.
And we don't know how super accurate the movie is.
I don't know.
I haven't seen it.
But basically diamonds that are illegally traded
to fund conflict in war-torn areas.
So conflict diamonds is the term
that might come up in that conversation, guys.
Okay, and we'll go into the history a little bit here
because this was a much bigger issue in the 1980s, 1990s.
Some political strides have been made to make this better,
but unfortunately it is still an issue.
So our second term is ethically sourced,
which means this can be for anything,
not just diamonds.
It's a product and the materials involved
with that are all obtained in an ethical way
throughout the entire business chain of entire supply chain.
Yes, I love that.
So the idea that an ethically sourced diamond
comes from a mind that's in compliance,
although that's hard to confirm, right?
That's kind of part of the challenge.
That's really hard, you know,
a mind that doesn't have child labor, forced labor,
things like that.
So that's really what we're talking about
when we talk about ethically sourced.
Right, there are certifications
and, you know, these minds are supposed to prove
that they are following strict labor regulations
and environmental regulations,
but we can't personally go to the mind
and confirm any of that.
So there's a certain level of trust.
Oh, for sure.
For sure.
Okay, and then number three,
cubic zirconia, this might call up in our English conversations
about this.
What is that?
And how is it different from a diamond?
That's very different from a diamond.
It's synthetic material that is created
with very different materials than diamonds.
There's no carbon, right?
If you melt zirconium oxide powder
with stabilizers like calcium and magnesium,
and then they can and polish them to look like diamonds,
but the chemical properties are totally different.
So it's like when I was, you know,
when I was buying wedding rings,
these were a little more popular.
Maybe you would see because this next term,
lab-grown diamonds weren't as,
was not known as popular as they are today.
Right.
And so now it's a big thing, a lab-grown diamond.
That's the next term, right?
Where they, what is this?
They manufacture it in a lab.
It sounds like very interesting, right?
They're created in a facility using diamond seeds,
which are single crystal diamonds
and a slice very tiny about as thick as a single human hair.
And they use these technological processes
to high pressure, high temperature processes.
The result in diamonds with identical chemical,
physical and optical characteristics as natural diamonds.
So they're also made out of crystallized carbon.
They end up being virtually a diamond,
but just manmade instead of grown over millions of years
in a mile away.
I love it.
I love it.
Okay, so we've gone through the vocabulary.
This is the vocabulary you guys might end up using
if you do get the signs from someone
that you can go ahead and talk about this, right?
That they're not feeling...
Close off to the conversation.
Close off to the conversation.
And when we come back from our break,
let's get into the conflict a little bit, right?
Aubrey, just to get a sense of what's going on.
Yeah, absolutely.
Okay, Aubrey, we are back from our break.
I'm ready to talk about this conflict.
Tell us about what we need to know here.
Yeah, so it is vital to know about the history
if you're going to have this conversation.
And I found a great organization called Diamonds
for Peace.org.
And I looked at a few different sites.
It looked like all of this was pretty accurate
that during the 1980s and 1990s,
there were intense civil wars in Africa
that led to human rights violations.
As both governments and rebel groups
used to diamond revenue to buy arms, to buy weapons.
And so there were a lot of human rights abuses
in diamond mines, child labor, bonded labor,
ill treatment, violence, and even sexual abuse,
sexual assaults.
So it was really a terrible situation back then.
Luckily, it improved a little bit in 2002
that Kimberly Process Certification Scheme
was adopted by the United Nations.
Okay.
We just seek to ban the trade in diamonds
from conflict zones.
Okay, I see.
And so that's where the term conflict free diamond comes
sometimes where, if you go to any of the modern,
if you go to buy a diamond online now
within the United States, you'll often see conflict free, right?
There's one, but again, so hard to verify that,
even if it fits within the certification process,
there's so much going on that we just can't know
as a consumer, right?
Exactly.
That brings us to sort of the current situation
where even today, human rights are often violated
in the diamond fields.
There are a lot of things happening.
It's very many levels here.
And I found an interesting article
called Why Africa Bleeds Diamond Revenues
from DW.com by NUSET, E. Silva, in February of 2023.
And so just we'll go over some of the points
of the reasons that diamond mining is still problematic today.
Okay, all right, where are we going to start then?
So we get a little taste of,
the idea here guys is not for us to tell you everything, right?
Because you have to go out on your own.
If you're interested in this topic,
go find the information on your own, go read this article.
We want to show you today how you might approach this
in a conversation.
We're going to get a little substance here
to make sure we have something to work with, right?
Exactly.
And your friends, you know, family,
if they're not ready to have this conversation,
you can let them know, you know, you could,
you could research this, you can find out.
And this is the information that they will find online.
So just first that local communities
are really missing out on profits.
Still, this is still an issue
where even though Africa holds this extensive mineral wealth,
the revenue generated is often going
to those big brand jewelers that end up selling the diamonds
and little is being done to improve the quality of life
of the people who live in those local communities.
Oh my gosh, for sure, for sure.
And so, and what else, Aubrey, what do we know?
We need to know.
So first of all, local communities are not making
the vast majority of the money that's being made,
that people are paying for these diamonds, right?
And so there's still poverty happening.
It's, and that's, yeah, it's depressing actually.
Exactly.
And a lot of that is because these big name jewelry companies
are taking advantage of political instability, right?
If these governments were very stable
and there weren't still regime changes often,
it would be more difficult for them.
This wouldn't be the case as much.
This diamond revenue would likely be going back
into these communities.
But so it really feels unethical and unfair
for big rich companies to kind of be taking advantage
of these lesser developed areas.
Okay, so, and what else, Aubrey?
So illegal diamond mining being prevalent.
And obviously, if there's illegal mining happening,
that's not being regulated in any way
or happening under the Kimberly Act, correct?
Exactly.
So there are two markets for exploitation of mineral resources.
First is the formal extractive industry,
which is easier to regulate.
They have certificates.
But also, there's a clandestine secret operations
which are dominated by miners and sponsors,
which is someone who pays miners to go deep into the bush
into the jungle, harvest illegally.
They buy them from them, fake the certificates.
So there's just potential that the diamonds people are buying
are not regulated, are not complex free.
Oh, 100%.
Oh my gosh, yes.
So that's another, what else do we need to know, Aubrey?
In terms of the conflict.
Yeah, just the last thing really is just that
there's a lot of passion toward the developed world,
turning a blind eye to these issues.
A lot of us assume that the issue has been resolved.
We've probably heard about conflict diamonds.
Maybe we saw that film, blood diamonds,
but we know that it's better now.
We've been told diamonds now are conflict free.
And we are sort of turning a blind eye
because it is a difficult discussion to have.
For sure, for sure.
And I think it's really interesting as well
because I think we don't think about other rocks and gems also.
Right.
I was recently listening to a podcast
where it was the kind of scenario
where the interviewer would interview someone
about their business and they would dig in
to the depths of their business
and really understand how they make money.
And the person being interviewed on the podcast
was an owner of a rock and gem shop actually in my area.
Okay.
And she really dug it.
So it wasn't diamonds that he was selling.
It was something else.
I think it was, it might have been rubies or termylene
or something a little more common that many of us might have.
And it was a similar issue digging into,
okay, but where did that but who mine that?
Are you sure?
How do you know?
Right.
So I think not just diamonds.
It's not just diamonds, right?
It's this whole world of rocks and gems
and the natural, anytime we're getting natural resources
for many things, we don't know much of what's actually happening
which is kind of crazy, right?
It is kind of crazy.
And when we think about an issue like this,
there is value in increasing public awareness.
So there is value in just broaching the subject
with anyone you know.
And then seeing how it goes.
So right now we're going to share you a great phrase
you could use.
Yeah.
And then what you need to do depending on how it's accepted,
how it's received.
All right.
So how would you go about if you're brave, right?
Not everyone necessarily wants to start this conversation.
It's okay if it is within your personality
or if it's something you feel really passionate about
whether it's diamonds or rubies or other types of gems
or any industry that you feel something is wrong, right?
People are being taken advantage of.
How would you go about and go about starting that question?
This is a big tip that everyone loves to hear.
I love when people start a conversation with,
I heard a podcast about Blink.
Have you heard about this?
And now with the episode we just shared with you guys,
you can use this phrase.
Sure.
I heard a podcast about how diamond mining
is still an issue.
Have you heard about this?
Yes.
It's true.
You've heard our episode.
And then from there, what do you do Lindsay?
You read the room and I just laughed because that was exactly
how I opened up my contribution there
about the other types of gems and minerals, right?
The issue is exactly what I heard.
We get our information from podcasts a lot,
but it could also be I heard a new segment.
I listened to the radio call.
I watched a movie and I didn't.
Right.
So then the next step after you asked that question
is to go ahead and read the room.
What do we mean by read the room?
Aubrey wants to talk about it.
So this is what we talked about at the top of the episode
a little bit.
Notice body language, right?
Eye contact.
How are they pulling in on themselves
and their shoulders are punching?
Or are they opening up to the conversation?
You can really read a person and if they want to talk about
what you brought up.
And also continue to read the room as the conversation
continues because if you start to talk about the history
a little bit, the current situation,
ask them what they think make it a conversation at any time.
They might start closing off a little bit.
And you could say, you know, I'm curious to read
a lot more about this.
Maybe you are too.
And then change the conversation.
It doesn't have to be something that gets super deep.
You're sort of trying to just open their perspective
to find out more on their own.
Yeah. And we're not lecturing people.
We're not making them feel stupid.
If they're not aware of certain things,
that breaks the connection.
Yes, exactly.
I mean, really this episode is about something bigger than this.
It's about disagreement, broadly, on any issue, right?
And we're in a place where we're such a divided world right now,
at least in the US, we're very divided.
So how do we approach these conversations
where we disagree on a deep level, Aubrey?
What you know?
Exactly.
And something like this is tricky too,
because you also have the implied idea
that maybe this is something they should have known about.
That's happened to me sometimes.
Yeah.
So I'm overing something up.
And I feel a little humbled.
Like, I can't believe I hadn't heard about that.
I should have known about this.
So I also have to be careful there too,
with our intonation, make sure we don't sound like
we're judging someone.
And not saying anything that makes it feel like we should,
they should have already known this.
We're just broaching the subject with the goal
of having an interesting conversation,
deepening that connection.
Yes, I love that.
All right, what is the takeaway for today, Aubrey?
I guess that is the takeaway, right?
Don't try away from these things.
You have the language at this level of you can understand,
you know, 75% of this show,
you have the skills you need to start these conversations.
These conversations are what we need to come together
as a community, as a world society,
American culture, again, to start to bridge the gaps
that are starting to exist, right?
Absolutely, right?
Spark the conversation with someone you know well.
Use our phrase today and then read the room.
And it might really deepen the connection.
Absolutely, good stuff.
Well, thanks for bringing this in, Aubrey.
Thanks for approaching this topic.
We like to go into the deeper things
once in a while in all our English.
Guys, hit follow on the show if you love this show.
Good stuff.
That's just an upgrade. Thanks, Lindsay. Bye.
Bye.
Bye.
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