This is an All Ears English podcast, episode 2112.
When can you say when pigs fly?
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Hey, Aubrey, what's going on?
Not too much.
I'm excited to do this episode.
And I have a question for you, Lindsay.
Okay.
Do you often go to stand-up comedy shows?
Yeah, I've been to a few this year in Denver.
But I love it when I can hear someone really funny.
You know what I mean?
Yes.
I know, right?
There's a difference between like the local comics, which are great.
But every now and then you get to go to someone bigger.
I went to Trevor Noah on Friday night.
It was fantastic.
He's so talented, guys.
He was the host of The Daily Show.
He's a very famous political commentator.
If you haven't heard of him, check out some of his stuff.
He's so intelligent.
Oh, he's really good.
And he has a book out too, doesn't he?
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I can't remember the name of it, but it's like Raised.
That's like born a problem, something like that.
Very similar to that.
Right.
So definitely very, very political.
A lot of what he says, but his standup set, was amazing.
He's been touring in Europe and the Middle East and he did a really good job, weaving in sort of like politics in also just a very funny, lighthearted way.
Oh, that's awesome.
I'm jealous that you got to see him.
I would love to go see Trevor Noah.
Fantastic.
It was fantastic.
He told this joke that made me think about you guys, the All Ears English team and our listeners, because he was talking about how Florida in Florida in the United States, people are arguing about the new social studies, education standards and what should be included in textbooks.
And then he says, what they really need to realize is nobody reads textbooks.
I was like, exactly.
Thank you, Trevor Noah.
It's so true.
It's so true.
That's what comedians do.
They shed light on what we all know about ourselves that are actually funny, right?
Exactly.
He's like when's the last time you read something in a textbook that you were like?
I'm going to remember that forever.
He's like, no, we're learning in other ways.
Don't be fighting about what's in textbooks.
No one cares.
It just doesn't come to life, right?
What's in the text, what the material feels stale and old sometimes.
So we did have a question from a listener related to this.
I'm excited to see how it's related.
That's exactly right.
When i saw today's question, it made me think about this, because it's about an idiom that can be very offensive.
It's not always appropriate for the situation and that's one thing that you don't learn in textbooks.
You might see lists of idioms, but not how natives actually use them to connect.
Yes okay, cool.
So I'm gonna go ahead and read the question.
This is from Mohamed.
Are you ready, Aubrey?
Yes, let's do it.
All right, hi, Lindsay, Aubrey, Jessica, Michelle.
I hope you're doing well.
I shared the following message on a webpage and I just want to know if the language and the structures I used are appropriate.
And here's what he wrote, right, Aubrey?
So, dear teachers, please note that there are no incentives for you, as we are fully cognizant that you outnumber other participants in the educational system.
Please accept our apologies.
Perhaps when pigs fly we'll consider it.
Please try to check it out and let me know what you think.
Okay he, now he's asking us to check it out.
Check out what he wrote, looking forward to hearing from you soon.
Regards Mohammed.
Okay yes, so he used some great vocab here.
I want to highlight right, he used this verb cognizant, or really adjective to say i'm cognizant of something, meaning aware, really great structures, right.
So most of his message where he's saying like please note that there are no incentives for you, as we are fully cognizant that you very professional, very high level vocabulary.
But then he makes this grave error by using the idiom when pigs fly to say that something is unlikely to happen.
It could be very offensive.
It's very informal, like something you would maybe say to a friend but you would not say in like an official notice like this.
Right, Lindsay?
Yeah, there's no consistency here is the problem, right?
We're going from a very formal message to a loose idiom expression that belongs at a Sunday afternoon barbecue.
Commenting on the baseball game.
Your favorite baseball player, not this professional player.
Yes.
And if Muhammad just learned this idiom in a list of idioms that just mean unlikely, unlikely to happen, how could he know, right?
All of what's implied and how informal it is and that it can be offensive.
So you would think, sure, I can throw this into this message.
If you were not getting all the context, we need to learn how natives actually use this idiom.
Yeah.
So Aubrey, would you say that it's offensive more because it's just placed along with the such a formal message, or is there something about the idiom itself in isolation?
I think it's about the message, right?
If you're saying, please accept our apologies.
And then you want to say, unfortunately, this also is unlikely to happen in the future.
That's like a very respectful, professional way to say that.
If instead, you use this very informal silly idiom to say that when pigs fly, it feels so disrespectful?
And it feels like you're slapping them in the face because you're making light of the fact that they're not going to get this benefit that they probably would like.
It's so true.
Oh my gosh.
It is really stark when you think about it.
It is like a slap in the face because you've started off respectful, professional and now boom, here's an idiom.
And all of a sudden it's bad.
Yeah.
It doesn't work.
It does not work.
Exactly.
And a lot of it's, would you would you even replace that with never, right?
Would you want to say, like you know unfortunately, that's never going to happen, because that's what this idiom means, right?
No, even that is too direct.
Exactly, right?
You would not say it that directly.
You'd say the way I did, right?
Unfortunately, this is unlikely to happen in the future.
You'd just be like it's never going to happen.
It's dangerous moving from super formal written language into kind of an idiomatic spoken language in the same message very dangerous.
Idioms aren't always appropriate, especially a lot that, especially like this one about pigs flying being so informal, often just shouldn't be in writing idiomatic language.
It's more for spoken language.
Usually super interesting.
I'm loving this.
All right.
What else should we listen to, aubry?
Well, we definitely want to share with you.
Recently, Lindsay and I recorded an episode over on the Business English podcast.
That was pretty similar.
We shared business English idioms to avoid at work.
It was episode 165.
So if you're not following over there, make sure you hit follow.
You're missing these great episodes.
We shared some maybe a little bit outdated or maybe they're still being used idioms like being in bed together with someone, powwow or more than one way to skin a cat, and we shared better alternatives that you should use instead, especially at work.
Especially at work.
These are ones you want to avoid using at work, and we'll tell you why over on that episode.
So go over and find the Business English podcast, hit follow.
Just hit search, look for it, and then hit follow right there.
So let's go into this idiom more than Aubrey and figure out why it's just so casual and did not work.
Yeah, because it's not like you can never use it, right?
So when pigs fly, it means never, but it's often used to express negativity about a situation.
So for example, I might say, my kids will start picking up after themselves when pigs fly.
Yeah.
I'm being negative about the situation.
I'm frustrated.
Right.
Yeah.
Or people are going to stop eating fast food when pigs fly.
Right.
So we're trying to raise the consciousness level of nutrition in our country, but people are still going to want their McDonald's fries.
Right.
Exactly.
Right.
And it's used most often just as a response similar to saying never.
So we're going to do a little role play so you can see how that works.
Yes.
I'll start us out.
When do you think you'll be able to get away for a vacation?
Well, when pigs fly, Aubrey, I mean, never, honestly.
This is what I use it, right?
If I want to say never, this is a more fun way to be like when pigs fly.
Yeah.
Like you're exaggerating that it's never going to happen.
It feels like it's never going to happen.
I like that.
I'm too busy.
And I like what you said here, Aubrey.
I think it's really important.
It's much more as a response, as a response to a question.
The other examples show you what it means, but it's a lot of work to say that, right?
My kids will start picking up after themselves when pigs fly.
It's just a lot of work to say that sentence.
Would you agree?
Much more likely that you'd ask me, like you know, or my husband might ask me when do you think our kids will start picking up after themselves?
And I'll be like, When pigs fly.
Yeah.
And that's it.
And you said it and get the meaning and we move on.
It's perfect.
It's perfect.
And we really don't use it for positive things.
We wouldn't say like, I'm in such a good mood.
I'll be in a bad mood when pigs fly.
No, right.
We really kind of use it to express frustration about a situation.
Yeah.
And so again, coming back to Muhammad's question, what else do we want to say about that, Aubrey?
Yeah, we wouldn't want to use it right to let someone know that they're not receiving an incentive or they're not receiving a benefit, and never will.
You know.
So, like we were saying, instead we want to say something really professional and positive.
Like.
Additionally, we regret to inform you that it will not be possible to make these incentives available in the future.
We have to really think about the level of respect, how something will be received.
And an idiom like when pigs fly is going to come off negatively.
Yeah, I mean I see it on two levels, as just switching so quickly from that formal to the casual idiomatic spoken is offensive.
I don't know if offensive is the right word, but it's jarring.
Let's say glaring, jarring, jarring.
Yeah, but the content, right?
Because it looks like we're asking about benefits or incentives or supporting teachers or something along those lines, I guess.
That's also just the content of the message makes it especially bad.
Exactly.
We're going to teach another similar expression, but I want to highlight the best way to learn expressions like this.
Let's talk a little bit about that, Aubrey.
Like we said at the beginning of the episode, you can't learn this stuff in a textbook.
I mean, Trevor Noah said it, so it's got to be right.
So it's got to be true.
Exactly.
You don't want to memorize lists of idioms or expressions.
You need to learn how these are used in natural conversation and what context to use them in.
Yep, exactly.
So, as I've been using the Rosetta Stone app this fall guys, I've noticed that vocabulary and phrases they are taught in context, which is the way that I like to learn a language.
Exactly same, so that you can actually learn how native speakers use them.
Yes.
You guys may have heard a share before that.
This podcast, All Ears English, is sponsored by Rosetta Stone.
And so this is exciting for you guys because you can get this amazing deal on the Rosetta Stone program, but we don't know how long this offer is going to be available, right?
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Yeah.
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So that means that you can get access to 25 different language courses for $179.
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That's R-O-S-E-T-T-A-S-T-O-N-E dot com slash A-E-E.
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All right.
So the next expression, Aubrey, which I love here is don't hold your breath.
I actually think that I use this one more than when pigs fly.
Don't you think?
Absolutely.
Yeah.
But it's very similar in that it's often used as a response.
Like we'll show you means something will never happen, or maybe not anytime soon, and can be is too informal and offensive in the same way, right.
You would not want to share with someone, you know, these incentives aren't going to be available.
So don't hold your breath.
It's just too informal.
It's so true.
It's so true.
So what would be an example sentence?
Yeah so, like my daughter said, she'll clean her room, but i'm not going to hold my breath, right.
So similar to the example we used before with one pig slide, but it just feels a little more modern, more relevant to me.
Yes, absolutely.
I hear this more often on TV and podcasts.
We still use this a lot.
Whereas when pigs fly, I don't hear as often.
I certainly know what it means.
I hear it every now and then, but it's, yeah, I agree.
Don't hold your breath.
I think it's still very current.
Yes.
A hundred percent.
So we have a tiny little role play for our listeners to see how this goes into action.
Are you ready?
Yes.
You start us out.
I'm hoping Mike is going to move here.
Don't hold your breath.
He loves living in New York.
Yeah.
So it's just, something is unlikely to happen.
Exactly.
But such a fun, native, natural way to say that, right?
Instead of being like, no, I don't think that's ever going to happen.
Don't hold your breath.
It's a connection skill, you know, making sure people know what's realistic.
It's just kind of fun.
It's playful.
It's good.
Exactly.
Yeah.
What's the takeaway today?
Yeah.
So this I think is big, you guys.
I think if you're learning idioms just in a list or a thesaurus will give you like idioms that are similar to a certain adjective or a certain word.
That's dangerous because some idioms can be offensive or inappropriate in certain contexts or they can be too informal for writing or a business message.
So today's tips will definitely help you avoid problems like this.
This is why you want to avoid textbooks, right?
Learn with us instead.
Yeah.
And today's message was especially interesting to me, because what we're doing is we're talking about the danger of mixing, mixing formal, in the same message with idiomatic.
It becomes jarring and rude and completely unexpected.
So that's, you know, it takes it to the next level of what the results could be there if we do that.
Yes.
I kind of love the metaphor of a slap in the face.
It feels the same as someone comes out of nowhere.
It really surprises you and it's not a good feeling.
Oh, that was really harsh.
So guys, on this show, our goal is connection, not perfection.
And we've shown you what not to do to find that human connection, which we're all looking for.
Good stuff, Aubrey.
You have a good day.
I'll talk to you soon.
Thanks for being on the show today.
Awesome.
Thanks, Lindsay.
See you next time.
Take care.
Bye.
Bye.
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