This is an All Ears English podcast, episode 2085 how English grammar and politeness go hand in hand.
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Should you say me and her or her and me?
In today's episode, find out why putting other people first matters in grammar and in life.
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Hey, Aubrey, what's going on today?
I have a question for you, Lindsay.
I have a feeling I know the answer, but do you consider yourself a polite person generally?
Yes, I try to be as polite as I can.
For sure I don't consider myself a rude person.
So yeah well, so here's I have a more specific question.
I feel like when it comes to like, people are usually polite when it comes to you know, when they're just talking, but then when it comes to driving, like all bets are off, oh yeah.
So When it comes like you know, when there's a line of cars and you're supposed to go every other one because everyone's trying to get into the same line,
Do you always let that other car go or do you ever try to sneak in and like not let someone in?
I don't drive that much.
So I haven't out here.
No, I don't drive.
I don't drive.
Yeah, I think I have a strong conscientiousness, like a strong sense of like not wanting to make, like hurt people.
So I'm not saying I've never done that.
I'm sure I've done it once.
Right.
But generally, I wouldn't do that.
By nature.
I feel like there's a social exchange in the world.
Right.
Right.
And it's so fascinating to me.
Every time I drop my kids off at school, I'm like paying attention.
I would never think about cutting someone off or trying to cut.
But it happens all the time that I like it's my turn to go and someone else will just go another course.
I'm like, really?
Yeah.
Yeah, for sure.
What about you makes you?
I mean, are you really in that big of a hurry that it's going to save you two seconds?
It's fascinating to me.
I mean, sometimes I try to give people the benefit of the doubt.
You know, sometimes what happens is like I'll be driving and someone will not so much that scenario, but like someone will cut me off, go right in front of me and then speed up and just kind of drive very poorly and rudely and i'll look over and i'm kind of upset.
And then i'll look over and it's like a woman and she looks stressed out with a baby in the back, something like that yeah, and like maybe she's going to the hospital, maybe you know that's true right, you're like okay, i'm not gonna think the worst here, but i get so frustrated when, if there's like a line of car, i'm like waiting in the line of cars because it's merging ahead and someone speeds by all of us and they're just gonna like sneak in.
Yeah, that's just blatantly selfish right, It's just blatantly selfish.
Or just like skipping the line, right.
I was at a club and we were waiting for drinks and people were just like skipping the line and going right in at the front.
And I would never say anything, but I'm just back there like grumbling.
That's blatantly bad.
I mean, but that's very cultural too, isn't it?
Yeah, it's interesting, right?
Politeness, I think in general is so cultural, right?
If that is just sort of seen as like smart, right?
Just like, oh, no, you're just saving time.
Go get your drink.
Or if it's very much like, OK, let's be polite and think of others.
Well, I think it's two things.
I think it's politeness and it's respect for social order.
Right.
Order like there is an order to things.
We have to follow it.
Organization.
I think both of those are cultural values that different countries have to different extents.
Right.
So some countries don't necessarily see the need for that sort of order.
It's not a lie.
It's a bunch of people gathering around trying to access the thing.
It's really interesting.
And how, even within the culture of the United States, it could be so different depending on how you're raised, your family's values and what they see as polite or you know.
It's fascinating to me.
But this is interesting because today we're talking about grammar that is all about politeness.
And that's rare that whether you're polite or not could affect how you speak, the grammar you use.
I like it.
I like it.
I'm excited to listen to the question, so I'll go ahead and read it.
So are we ready?
Yeah, let's hear it.
Here we go.
Hi, Lindsay, Michelle, Jessica, and Aubrey.
My name is Asami from Tokyo.
Your podcast has been the best way to learn English for the last few years.
I've also taken Connected Communicator, Three Keys IELTS, and Business English courses.
They're all amazing.
Amazing.
That is so awesome.
I love that.
This is one of our super students.
I love it.
I love it.
Today, I have two questions.
One, I sometimes get confused by the order of the subject.
I heard that I always goes to the last and you always goes at the front.
For example, you, my mom and I went shopping today.
Or you, your mom and I went to eat dinner today.
Is this rule always applicable?
Oh, I'm excited to find out the answer.
Yes, it's going to be interesting.
And there is a second question that Asami asked that's related, but a whole separate episode.
And this is something that we get questions a lot about whether you should use she or her. right?
Subject, object.
So we're going to do that in an episode very soon, a part two to answer the second part of Asami's question.
So be sure to hit follow guys right here on Allers English so you don't miss that one.
Yeah, go ahead and find that follow button depending on where you are listening Spotify Apple CastBox, Amazon.
There's always going to be a way to follow the show so that it drops naturally into your listening deck, your queue.
You don't have to go find us every Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday.
It just drops in for you.
So hit that button.
Yes.
I don't know about you, Lindsay, but there have been several times where I don't have service.
And I'm so glad that I'm following some of my podcasts because then they're already downloaded in my queue.
I'm like, oh, thank goodness, because I don't have a lot of music on my phone.
Oh, my gosh.
No, it's the worst thing.
You want to have something in your queue.
You don't want to...
Go out for your walk, your daily walk, and realize there's nothing there, because then you have to go search and figure it out.
No, make it easy on yourself.
Make it easy.
Yes.
Don't miss any episodes, right?
Four episodes every week and they are all gems, if I do say so myself.
Total gems.
I love it.
So we're going to answer Asami's question.
We're going to get right into it, Aubrey.
What is our answer?
What do we say?
Yeah.
So first of all, this is tricky grammar and native speakers often make mistakes with it.
I hear mistakes with this all of the time.
Oh, yeah. this is very much about your regional dialect, right?
If you grew up learning this and using it and hearing it correct, you know, used correctly or not.
So the short answer is yes, this rule is always applicable.
Subject order is all about politeness.
And of course, politeness is vital for connection, right, Lindsay?
Yes.
Interesting.
Okay.
I love it.
So the basic polite this rule here is, when you're speaking to be polite, we put the other person first.
Exactly yeah, and it's interesting to think about.
That's the same in other aspects of life.
Putting the other person first is always polite.
When it comes to like, walking through doors, if ever you hold the door for someone and let them go first, that's all about politeness.
Like i would say, driving and saying driving in traffic and letting someone go in front of you right, all about being polite and it's kind of this is more on the Buddhist side of things, but it's a major life hack to actually do these things to open doors for people.
Let people go, because you actually get all the benefit.
You get this amazing rush of wow that felt really good and you could change the neuroscience of your brain.
I mean, you become a lot more peaceful.
It's gratitude.
It's just incredible.
So side point.
So true.
It's so true though.
When I let someone into that car line, I feel so great.
And if I cut someone off, then I feel really terrible.
So I get the benefits there.
You get the benefit.
So we're going to do the same thing in our language.
Interesting.
Exactly.
Right.
Let's go through Asami's examples.
She shared, you, my mom, and I went shopping today.
And this is the polite version to say, to put you, right?
And then my mom, and you put me last, right?
You, my mom, and I. The impolite version would be like, I, you, and my mom went shopping.
Or we'll hear even more often, which is even more incorrect, me, you, and my mom went shopping.
Because it's like, you can feel that I shouldn't come first.
So we'll say me.
What do you think, Lindsay?
What do you hear?
It's true.
I feel like I kind of learned this as a kid when I was learning kind of how to exist in the world a little bit.
You do actually learn this grammar along with how to exist and be a polite person in the world.
It's kind of interesting.
Great.
It's fascinating.
It is taught in sort of like English grammar classes when we're kids.
But I remember learning this and being surprised because that's not how I heard it.
I would hear it wrong all the time because in the Northwest in the United States often, I don't know people don't think about this as politeness.
It's just not how their parents talk to their grandparents.
So this, just because you hear someone use it incorrectly doesn't mean they're impolite.
It either means they weren't taught this or this just not what they hear.
So it's part of their regional dialect to make this mistake.
Oh, for sure.
I mean, so much of the language you learn comes from who's around us, right?
So we know.
Exactly.
So, but we can aspire to be correct, but obviously connect.
We've talked about that on other episodes, Aubrey, right?
We like connection better than big words.
We like it better than being perfect.
We love human connection.
So exactly.
But this does become important when you're trying to be very professional and impress right at work in a job interview, a presentation.
There are some times where you would you would want to get this grammar correct, because there are a lot of places in the United States where this is they don't hear this mistake very often.
Right, it's not part of the regional dialect, they know the correct grammar.
There are some things we've gone over on this podcast, like this, where when you're trying to use correct grammar, be professional,
I understand why Asami's asking.
She wants to try to make sure to use the correct grammar and that's also understandable.
Of course.
What else do we need to know here?
Do we have another example from Asami?
Yes.
So Asami shared another example in her email.
You, your mom and I went to eat dinner today.
So if we flip it and put I first, this would be impolite to say i, you and your mom went to dinner.
That sounds very strange to me but interestingly, if i replace i with me, that sounds normal to me.
Me, you and your mom went to dinner today.
But are we saying that's wrong if we say me, you and your mom went to dinner today?
Grammatically speaking, Right.
So this is what we're going to talk more about in part two.
Okay.
Because Asami's asking like, okay, should it be I or me?
She or her?
Yes.
And that becomes tricky, right?
When this is a subject pronoun, it has to be I. It's at the beginning of the sentence.
It's the subject.
You can't use me.
This is a very common mistake in English.
And so it's interesting how we're sort of combining two mistakes in order to soften it maybe.
Yes.
I think is what happens there.
It's like, oh, I know I can't put I first. maybe if i put me first and whoever the speaker doesn't realize you know it in order to be polite either one of those always has to come last yes i love it all right okay aubry so we have some rules for our listeners here that they can lean on in these moments of not quite knowing what to say yeah so first we want to share the examples asami shared she's just using the pronoun i but this applies to every subject pronoun right she He, they, whichever pronoun you're using, whoever is speaking will put themselves last.
Put the other person first.
So for example, she and I have been friends forever.
Or he and I met to discuss the plan.
Good.
Yes.
And then we briefly touched on object pronouns, which are more often at the end of the sentence.
This rule also applies when you're using object pronouns.
So him, her, them.
For example, are you meeting up with her and me?
And this, with object pronouns, is where we really hear mistakes in English a lot.
Yes.
It's very common.
You might hear someone say, are you meeting up with me and her?
Yeah.
It might sound off to you.
Does that sound wrong to you, Lindsay?
It sounds common.
It sounds really common.
So I'm sort of like, what do I hear?
What do I even say?
What do I hear?
What do I say?
Because, yes, you're going to hear both.
But your English teacher in school would definitely tell you to be polite and put others before yourself.
So the correct grammar is to say, are you meeting up with her and me?
Yeah.
I think that's a really great rule of thumb, Aubrey.
Put others before yourself, and then we can really understand the order.
That's so good.
Exactly.
Yeah.
If ever you look at it, just so, whatever it is, subject pronoun, object pronoun, just put everybody else before you.
You come at the end.
Right.
Because I think where we get into trouble when it comes to grammar is we have memories at least I think a lot of American people do of documenting sentences, diagramming sentences.
I personally hated that.
And I love language.
I love speaking.
I love language.
I love words.
I hated diagramming sentences.
That's not fun, right?
And you don't need to do it.
I love that we have like a pro tip like this.
Instead of picking the whole sentence apart and figuring out this and this.
If you know this one little rule to put either me or I last bam, you got it.
Oh, that's so good.
That's so good.
Anything else we want to say before we get into the role play?
Yeah.
So just as a reminder.
Asami's second question related to why this sentence ends with her and me instead of she and I.
That's also a very common mistake in English.
A little bit tricky.
We're going to explain it very simply in our next episode.
Well, not about next, but in an upcoming episode.
So be sure to hit follow.
Yeah.
Kind of a two-part series here on advanced grammar.
Yeah.
Perfect.
Absolutely.
So let's share a little role play and use some of these.
So here we are chatting about what we did last weekend.
Here we go.
I'll start us out.
I went on a hike early Saturday morning with my dad.
Oh, nice.
Did you go early?
So it was nice and cool out?
Yep.
He, my uncle and I all met at the trailhead at 7am.
What about you?
Did you get outside this weekend?
I know you usually do.
Absolutely.
Some friends were in town visiting my sister and they met up with her, my neighbor and me at a music festival.
Oh, wow.
I do not have the stamina for music festivals anymore.
That's very true.
I used to go to like Warped Tour and there are all these music festivals that are like all day long or two days.
I can't do it.
Yeah.
Just the thought of it exhausts me.
Do you go to concerts still?
Do you like concerts?
Sometimes.
Not so much anymore.
I've gone to a few lately and I just, I don't know.
I think that was something I'm going to leave in my youth.
What about you?
I've never been a big concert person.
I just think sometimes they're kind of expensive and I always want to sit down.
To be honest, everyone's always said everyone's standing.
Why are we standing the whole time?
This is three hours of my knees are killing me.
You know, I did.
We went to the Taylor Swift concert and it's over three hours and the girls in front of us stood the whole time and my daughters also wanted to stand and dance.
But there was a few songs.
I'm like this is a kind of a quiet ballad on the piano.
Can we sit for a minute?
No, they stood the whole time.
That's so funny.
Oh my gosh, I love that story.
That's funny.
All right, good stuff.
So what did we use here, Aubrey?
We have some good examples.
Okay, so this first one, yeah, and we have the three subjects here.
I said, you're asking, oh, you went hiking with your dad?
And I said, yep, he, my uncle, and I all met at the trailhead at 7 a.m.
And this is, it's really tricky.
The most important thing is that I come at the end, right?
I'm a subject pronoun.
I
And so I would share the first pronoun, my dad, who's already been named.
So I'm going to say he and use a pronoun.
And then I'm adding another person that hasn't been mentioned yet my uncle and I He my uncle and I all met at the trailhead.
Yeah, that feels like the right order.
It feels like the right use of pronouns.
Again, you already introduced your dad, so he makes sense.
My uncle is kind of the newbie in this scenario, right?
And then I, at the end, to put other people first.
Yes.
And often native speakers will.
In order to avoid this, if they're like not sure with the pronoun and the order, they'll just say like.
They'll repeat the subject and say like yeah, my dad, my uncle and I all met at the trailhead.
Because you might be a little hesitant to use that pronoun and not positive.
That's always an option, right?
Yes.
Instead, replace it with the person, even if they've already been mentioned.
You don't have to use a pronoun.
I love it.
Our listeners will be able to fill in any native speakers on how to do it right once they finish today's episode.
And then I said, and they met up with her, my neighbor and me at a music festival.
So I had already mentioned my sister.
And so that's why I used her and I started there.
And then we have the new person right in the middle, my neighbor and me to go at the end.
Exactly.
So in this role play we added just a little bit of level of difficulty instead of just the two subjects, right?
Of she and I, we're now adding a third person.
And I love that you picked that out, Lindsay that we first share the pronoun and then introduce this new person and always us at the end, no matter how many subjects there are.
Put other people first.
So good.
What's the takeaway today, Aubrey?
Yeah.
So interesting to think about how sometimes... politeness has to do with grammar, right?
And this little grammar guideline of putting others before yourself will really help you remember.
Subject order
I love it.
So good.
And just broadly speaking, it just feels good to be polite, right?
It feels good to put other people first.
So that's a good takeaway as well in terms of how we live, I guess.
It's a good- Absolutely, right?
Be that person that lets someone in front of you.
And it's tricky too, because then if Like another car?
Should I get it like, right?
One car.
Oh, that's true.
One car in and then you can go.
Don't be like a doormat, right?
No, don't be a doormat.
Yes.
We need to find that balance.
And that could be another episode, another idiom for another day, Aubrey.
There's so many ideas.
So we'll see our listeners on the next episode.
Guys, hit follow on All Ears English podcast.
And thanks for hanging out, Aubrey.
I'll see you soon.
Awesome.
See you next time.
All right.
Take care.
Bye.
You too.
Bye.
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