This is an All Ears English podcast, episode 2042, MCAT or LSAT, entrance exams in the US.
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Hey, Aubrey, what's shaking?
Not too much.
How are you?
I'm feeling great.
I'm feeling great.
We are in the summertime, so...
Very relaxed.
We're in August already.
That's crazy.
That is nuts.
It's almost fall and you're not studying to take the bar.
So anyone who is having a worse month than you are, right?
No way.
I know that sounds very stressful taking the bar exam, doesn't it?
Yes.
Right.
We're going to talk about some entrance exams today.
We got an interesting question about one of our previous podcasts, that is, about the bar, and what does that mean?
So we're going to talk about a few different exams in the United States.
This is great because these are things, little facts that we just want to know, kind of cultural facts, educational facts that are likely to come up when people are talking about their life timelines.
Right.
So that's why this matters, Aubrey.
Right.
Exactly.
Right.
Anyone who has taken these big entrance exams for universities or for their discipline.
They spent a lot of time.
They worked really hard to pass that exam.
So it's likely that they would love to talk to you about it.
Right.
Yeah.
Because sometimes we have to know what matters to people.
So we don't just gloss over things.
Maybe they want to question how'd the bar exam go if you took the bar exam last weekend, right?
Instead of just like, what did you see on TV last night?
No, how'd the exam go?
Great question.
So we'll get into that when it comes to connection, guys.
But how do we know that these exams are so stressful, Aubrey?
We know a little bit about this.
We do know a little bit about this, right?
We're lucky enough to have Jessica Beck on our team.
And she was an IELTS examiner for 14 years.
So we have been able to create this amazing podcast, the IELTS Energy Podcast, with all of her insider examiner knowledge.
And she has passed that on to me, trained me.
And not only are we able to help anyone prepare to take the IELTS exam, but we keep it fun over there right, Lindsay?
Yeah, of course.
You have to keep it fun.
Otherwise, you don't remember anything.
Exactly.
Yeah.
So guys, go over.
If you have IELTS anywhere in your future, or even if not, if you just want to improve your vocabulary with All Ears English, another podcast from All Ears English, go and open your search bar right now.
Type in IELTS energy.
It'll come up.
You'll see Aubrey and Jessica on the cover.
Hit follow on that show.
Good stuff.
Yes.
Awesome.
We do.
We talk a lot about test preparation because yes, it's about vocabulary and improving your overall English.
But anyone who's preparing to take an exam knows there's a lot more to it than that, right?
It's about stress management, because you can be totally ready, and prepared as far as the language level or the content.
And if you're not ready to handle the anxiety, you could still really... perform poorly on test day.
So that's part of it too.
It's not as simple as saying, Hey, I speak English.
I'm fluent in English because native speakers get six, sixes, maybe five, six and a half, right?
They don't always get their target score either.
So there's something we have to do to prepare.
That's what we have for you guys over there.
Where are we going from here?
All right.
So we got this interesting question and it was about episode 1908 of the All Ears English podcast.
So first of all, if you missed that episode, check it out.
It was called Three Native English Grammar Mistakes to Avoid.
So we're going to go ahead and read this question.
And the both of these were, you know, it's a student who had questions about that episode.
Okay.
So I'll read the question.
The student says Dear Lindsay, how are you?
Dear you for your episode today, 1908.
It was so great.
But i have a question about phrases you mentioned in this episode.
Number one not easy to pass the bar.
Number two pet peeve.
What do they mean?
Thanks in advance carol, awesome.
Yes, this happens quite often that we will use a phrase or an expression and not either have the time or just not stop to describe it, define it.
So if ever this happens to you, let us know.
This is a great question to send in.
You know, I heard these things in the episode.
What do they mean?
Because sometimes we don't even realize that oh, there's a lot of inside info, a lot of cultural context for some of these.
Yeah, but that's the fun part about All Ears English, right?
You're always going to hear words you don't know, and that's okay, because that keeps us motivated to keep listening guys, right.
We're not human dictionaries here.
It would be so boring if we just sat and defined every single word that we should talk about on the show.
And so we want to leave little hints for you guys, little Easter eggs for you to come back to and say I want to learn that word that was used so naturally in connection.
What does that mean and how can I use it?
Absolutely.
I love that.
And we're going to make this a two-part series because these two questions each could be their own episode and they're unrelated.
So today we're going to talk about what is the bar?
What does that mean that it's not easy to pass the bar?
And then in an episode coming up soon, we'll talk about pet peeves.
Yeah.
Although I'm sure the bar is a big pet peeve for a lot of people who have taken it.
True.
That is true.
Yeah.
Anyways, they are unrelated mostly.
So let's go into today this phrase not easy to pass the bar.
So where do we start?
Where do we start?
So in that episode we were talking about an attorney we had worked with and he had made a grammar error.
Right, that was part of his regional dialect, it was just, you know, accepted where he lives, and we were talking about him.
Like here he's this extremely intelligent business professional who had passed the bar.
And it's not easy to pass the bar and we can see a lot of our listeners would hear that and and maybe be like what, what is that?
Is the bar?
I don't understand.
Are we talking about drinks, like a glass of whiskey or something like right, what is that?
Different bar, different bar.
So today we're going to talk about the bar and other entrance exams.
So, first of all, what's an entrance exam, lindsay?
Well, it's just an exam you have to take to enter any kind of, whether it's an academic institution or, and could be qualified as a certain professional.
Doctors have their medical exams, lawyers have the bar exam.
I'm sure there are lots of others teaching exams, right?
Things like that.
Yeah, right.
It's an exam that you have to pass in order to gain entry into some kind of field or institution.
And one of them is the bar.
Who takes the bar, Lindsay?
People who are looking to become lawyers, right?
After law school.
I think they take this to actually be and I think the bar exam is different in every state.
Like, I think you have to take it if you want to practice law in Virginia.
You take the Virginia bar.
I'm pretty sure.
Do you know?
Exactly.
That is correct because I do know attorneys who have passed the bar in multiple states so they can practice in multiple states.
Right.
Yeah.
You have to take this exam, the bar exam, anywhere you want to practice.
It's just a big deal.
And there are just a lot of lawyers out there, right, that you're likely to meet.
If you're a professional, you're going out after work, you're likely to meet people that are in law school and taking the bar at some point.
So you want to know what this means for that connection conversation.
Yes, absolutely.
If someone says to you I'm studying to pass the bar or I'm studying to take the bar, you are now going to know what they mean.
They're studying to become an attorney.
And you can guarantee they're stressed out.
But becoming a lawyer.
I don't know.
I just, I don't, I just don't think like a lawyer.
I can't imagine being a lawyer.
Some people's brains are just, they're wired that way.
And that's great.
We need that.
I just, it's so analytical.
Oh, yes.
Right.
You have to have great attention to detail, no matter what area you're practicing.
And I have a good friend who's an adoption attorney.
So she focuses only on facilitating adoptions, but she still has such an eye for detail.
And you have to in order to be, you know, really to excel at what you're doing.
Interesting.
Interesting.
It's interesting how all of our brains work differently.
You know, what we notice, what we pay attention to, what we're wired for.
It's just so different.
Right.
Yes.
And this exam is interesting the way the grammar of it.
We can either say like he's studying for the bar or he's studying to take the bar.
So either way.
And it's short for the bar exam.
And yeah, either way you say it.
It's an interesting thing to ask someone about.
Like you were saying, you know, if you find out someone's taking the bar.
Oh, you know, when when are you taking it?
How's it going?
Has it been difficult to study because.
It is a very intense exam that I think they're going to appreciate someone caring about that process.
Well yeah, I mean that's human empathy and connection and chemistry is actually like trying to figure out how the person is feeling about what they just said to you and reflecting that, giving them space for them to share how they feel.
Right.
If you just gloss over it, like I said, it's just not true connections.
Absolutely.
Exactly.
So let's share a few other exams here, similar to the bar, very high stakes, high pressure exams.
The first is the MCAT.
So that's M-C-A-T, but native speakers will usually say MCAT.
And this is an entrance exam for medical school.
Okay.
So this is to get into medical school, whereas the bar is to get Out of law school, kind of, or to get into the legal world as a lawyer, right?
Right, exactly.
So this one, a student will already have a bachelor's degree from a regular four-year university.
And then, after they have their bachelor's, they will take this MCAT in order to be accepted into a medical school.
Yeah, so I'm taking the MCAT next week, right?
That's one thing we might hear.
Or what scores do you need to get on your MCAT?
Because...
A lot of exams like this one and the one we'll talk about next.
Depending on your GPA in college, depending on the grades you got for your bachelor's, that affects what score you need to get on these entrance exams.
Oh, I didn't know that.
That's interesting.
Okay.
Okay.
Yeah, I studied for the next one we're going to talk about for a while.
And you can check the chart, your GPA, to see what score you're going to have to get for different law schools or medical schools.
Got it.
So the next one, then what is that, Aubrey?
What's number three?
Yeah.
So LSAT, similar to the MCAT, we take this acronym.
It's L-S-A-T and we say LSAT.
And that is to get into law school.
So many exams.
Oh, I know.
So a lawyer would have to take the LSAT after their bachelor's degree, get into law school.
Then after law school they have to take the bar to get licensed.
Yes.
And I know that our listeners from different countries are used to exams, right?
Even more so than, you know, I think I remember in Japan, there's a big exam.
And I think it's in middle school or early in high school that people have to really study hard for.
And so I think there are more exams kind of front loaded early in someone's scholastic career.
Yes, in the United States, that's a little less common.
We don't have as many big high pressure exams until we finish high school.
That's right.
That's right.
So what would be some sample sentences with the LSAT?
Yeah.
So you might ask someone, when did you take the LSAT or what scores did you get on the LSAT?
Yeah.
And so you studied for this and you start prepping for this.
Aubrey, you said that? or no?
Yes.
I did.
I was studying to take the LSAT back when I thought I might be an attorney.
I actually was.
I had this friend who practices adoption law and was very interested and fascinated with what she did and thought about getting into that.
So I started studying for the LSAT, which was extremely difficult with little children at home and just the looking into law school and how difficult that would be to do like night school.
So I ended up giving up that dream.
But I also am sort of like you where I'm like.
I don't know if I'm detail oriented enough for this as well.
It does take a certain personality.
And you can connect with your friend who's working actively in that field and hear the stories and kind of understand what she's doing, which is pretty cool right.
I know.
It's amazing.
It's a really cool field of the law.
Very cool.
Okay.
Let's get into something that everyone, pretty much everyone that goes to college, although now I'm not sure if they're taking this anymore.
But the next one is the SAT or the ACT.
What's the difference, Aubrey?
So these are two exams that are required by four-year universities.
But students who are finishing high school right now, they have to, like you were saying, they have to find out.
What does the university I want to apply?
What do they want?
Do they need the SAT?
Do they want the ACT?
Would they accept either?
So these are exams that are taken by high school students and that, along with their GPA, will qualify them to apply to go to a four year university in the United States.
Yeah.
So, but now I'm hearing that I feel like a lot of institutions are just eliminating this more and more.
Are you hearing that in the news?
I feel like I've heard that. that they're trying.
I don't know.
Interesting.
My daughter is taking these right now at school this past year.
She's a junior in high school, so she had to take both of these.
And looking at the university she wants to apply for, they are still requiring it.
Still requiring it.
Yeah.
But for almost all of them, it was one or the other.
So a lot of students don't take both.
They'll just choose one.
But it depends on the school you're wanting to go to.
Yeah.
I mean, there's lots of implications here when it comes to standardized tests at this level around um different communities not having a fair shot at the exam if they haven't been exposed to the same cultural situations or environments or taught in the same way.
Like it's just, it's a loaded topic which we could go into another day, but that's part of why i think it might disappear.
I'm curious to see, or at least exceptions might be made right.
If there's evidence that a student didn't have the same opportunity to study for this exam and get good scores, because these exams are a lot more about how good you are at taking tests rather than you know really testing the knowledge you have.
Yeah, it's true.
So here's a sample sentence, right?
So are you taking both the ACT and the SAT, right?
So you ask this to a high school kid probably, right?
Exactly.
Or I took the SAT last Saturday.
You might hear someone say that or the ACT for both of these acronyms.
You know, they're taking a test that will help them prepare to go to college.
Yeah.
And they're always on Saturdays for some reason.
I don't know why all these exams are always on Saturdays.
I know when I was in high school, it was on Saturday.
Now, at least for the school my daughter's going to, they're part of the school day.
They like prepare them and then like Wednesday, all the juniors take this test.
So that's probably better because it's probably more equal.
It's probably hard for some kids to get into school on a Saturday, get a ride.
That's a good point.
That would make it easier for kids if they're already at school.
They've been preparing some as part of maybe, a class they're taking at school, and then they all take it on the same day.
Yeah.
So I think schools are becoming more inclusive and trying to help people find ways to get to college in a more fair way.
Right?
Absolutely.
Okay, let's do a role play here.
All right.
We're going back in time here.
We are college students discussing entrance exams, Lindsay.
Oh, stressful.
Here we go.
Yeah.
So you're planning a medical school, right, Aubrey?
Yes, I'm studying for the MCAT.
The last time I took an exam like this was the ACT.
Did you take both the ACT and the SAT?
No, the school I was planning to attend only required the ACT.
What about you?
You're planning on law school, right?
Oh yeah.
I'll take the LSAT next month.
And then after law school, I'll have to pass the bar.
So many tests.
I will be glad when we're past them.
I'm glad now that we're past them.
I'm 20 years past them.
Yes.
Right.
Never want to go back to that.
No, thank you.
Right.
But for all of you out there who are studying for an exam, we wish you the best of luck.
And if it's the IELTS exam, be sure to follow the IELTS Energy podcast for great tips strategies, vocabulary that you need to get your score on IELTS.
Yeah.
And just to kind of review what we said here real quick.
So you said, yes, I'm studying for the MCAT.
And again, that was the medical school entrance exam.
Right.
Exactly.
And then I said last time I took a test like this was the ACT, which would be as a high school student.
And then I followed up.
Right.
Kind of transition.
Did you take both the SAT and the ACT?
Right.
And we would hear some intonation there and the ACT.
Mm hmm.
Really good.
And then I said, oh, no, the school is going to just require the ACT.
So I only had to take the one.
And then you were talking about taking the LSAT next month, which is that entrance exam for law school.
Yeah.
And then I said, and then after law school, I'll have to pass the bar.
And it's just it's interesting how everything else is.
Yeah.
There's a lot of acronyms here, acronyms and just informal ways of saying this.
Again, we don't say the bar exam all the time.
So just know very rarely.
Yeah.
You have to really be listening closely for what they're saying.
Understand the context.
Are they going into law school?
You'll probably hear the word the bar.
Okay.
Yes.
And we do use that the bar for several nouns in English, right?
It's a place where you can go to get a drink.
It's a bar of metal like that weights are put on at the gym.
There are so many, but in this case, it means a law exam.
Maybe we could do another episode on that.
There's also raising the bar, right?
Raising the bar, like expectations going up, that kind of thing.
Oh yeah.
That's a good idiom too.
We'll definitely have to do a future episode just on All of the ways we use bar.
What's the takeaway today?
What should we come away with today?
Yeah, this is interesting to know about and to talk with others about.
Every education system has different entrance exams.
So whether you're planning to study or work in the US or have friends or family co-workers that do you want to be able to discuss them about, ask them about these, because they're putting in a lot of work for these exams.
I think that's the point right there.
That's the connection.
Skill is, if someone is taking one of these exams, it's probably taking over their life.
Yeah, absolutely.
Mentally, physically, time-wise, intellectually, it's taking over their life.
So if you're in a conversation, if they happen to be out for some reason socializing, which is unlikely, but if they are, make sure you reflect that bag.
That's human connection, right?
That's how we find more satisfaction in life by having better conversations.
And so now you guys have the tools to do it absolutely.
I have a friend studying to take the bar right now and that's all he does is study.
So if i saw him out yeah, i would definitely say, oh man, you escaped.
You know your other study.
What do you call, just like your desk, you know, to be able to come for a quick break because yeah, he's that's taking over his life.
That's all he does, and then asking those follow-up questions.
So when's the bar?
You know what are you going to do?
To celebrate, like this is where we go with our conversations.
All right, absolutely awesome.
Thanks lindsay, this is really interesting, very interesting.
Thanks aubrey, talk to you soon.
Talk to you soon.
Bye.
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