This is an All Ears English podcast episode 1,273.
Three pronunciation don'ts with Esther Bruhl.
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You work hard on your English, so don't let pronunciation stand in your way of getting your dream job or that ideal opportunity.
Today we have Esther on the show, who will show us three things that you should avoid doing in order to be better understood in English.
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Hey Esther, welcome to All Ears English.
How are you?
I'm great and thank you for inviting me to be here.
It's great.
Yeah, I'm excited to have you on because you know what?
We don't talk about pronunciation enough and it's so great when we have experts who go really deep into one specific area for our listeners.
So tell us what you do, Esther, and where you're from.
Okay so, as you can hear from my accent, I'm from Sydney Australia, and I'm a speech and language therapist.
And I've been working for over 30 years helping adults and children to speak more clearly.
I've developed some online accent reduction courses as well to help people.
And I guess it started because in Australia there are a lot of people who have – who come from a lot of different places in the world, just like in America.
Sure.
And a lot of people were concerned that they weren't getting their job opportunities or being able to –.
They go to interviews and they're told they're not clear because their pronunciation isn't clear.
They have really good skills.
So I developed the courses.
Okay, that's awesome.
I can understand how seeing that, it's painful, right?
For our listeners.
I'm sure so many of them have experienced that, wanting to go get that job, knowing that you have the qualifications, but the one thing standing in your way is your pronunciation.
That's frustrating.
I can understand why you'd want to go deeper into pronunciation.
I mean, the thing is, the reason I'm excited to have you on the show, I love the Australian accent.
I think it's so cool.
Yeah.
I think it's so cool.
So can you tell our listeners?
We do American English on this show, but occasionally we have guests with different accents.
Tell our listeners what the Aussie accent is all about.
What is it about?
Okay.
So I'll mention a few things.
I'm not going to go exhaustive here.
So obviously, again, as you can hear from my accent, the vowels are different.
So that's one of the main things, one of the big differences.
So for instance, Americans say can't, and I say can't.
Okay.
Americans say banana and I say banana.
Okay.
Okay.
Another sound that's different is the letter O.
So when you see it written in a word, like the word hot H-O-T, for instance,
In Australia, the O is said as O. In America, it's said as R.
And so Americans will say heart and Australians will say hot.
So that's a big difference.
That vowel, if you... is a totally different vowel.
Written as an O is a totally different vowel in Australia, for instance.
So the vowels are important.
And one more thing about vowels.
In Australian English, what happens is that...
With all the ER, wherever you see a vowel written with an R E-R-O-R-A-R-I-E-R, et cetera.
The R for rabbit is not said in Australian English.
Oh.
Oh, yes.
Which is hard, because if you are taught with an American accent, then you want to learn an Australian accent.
You have to take the R out.
So the word form, for instance, is said form.
Interesting.
And the word water is said water.
Yeah, I love it.
Yeah, yeah.
Okay.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And one other quick thing.
Is we resonate in a different place.
Okay.
Okay.
So Americans tend to resonate more far back and more nasal.
And Australians, the resonance is more towards the middle of the mouth.
So Americans will say can't.
So that's more at the back and resonated through the nose.
We say can't.
Yeah.
Okay.
Interesting.
Yeah.
The last thing I'm going to mention here is sometimes we say we stress different syllables in words.
For instance, Americans say oregano.
And we say oregano.
Oh my gosh.
I didn't know that one.
That's interesting.
Okay.
Okay.
So clearly there are a lot of differences.
And one thing that comes to mind we should do in a future episode we'll have to do here on All Ears English is comparing the British accent to the Australian accent.
It seems like they're a bit closer, right?
Yes.
Yes.
But that would be a whole other episode.
Yeah.
Okay.
Great.
So Esther, let's get into the meat of this episode, because you said you went into the pronunciation field.
You built your courses and your program because you saw that students were getting stopped, right?
They didn't get past interviews.
They didn't get the jobs they wanted because of their pronunciation.
So today you are going to tell us about three pronunciation don'ts.
Things we should not do if we want to be understood.
Is that right?
Yes, definitely.
So my first pronunciation don't is don't move your mouth the same way as you always do and expect to sound different.
So what do I mean by that?
To change your accent in English.
Whether you're learning an American accent Australian, doesn't matter.
To change your accent in English, you need to move your mouth differently, your tongue, your lips, your jaw differently.
Yeah, for sure.
Because if you don't move it differently, you're just sounding the same way that you always sound.
So when you're learning to do that, you have to change and coordinate your mouth differently.
And as you practice moving your mouth differently, you're building up new muscle memory.
So when we speak, we don't think about how we move our mouth.
No.
But when you change your accent, you have to think about how you move your mouth, because you're building new memories so that that new movement becomes automatic, so that when you're speaking in your everyday speech,
You can sound different, sound clearer, whatever your goal is.
Yeah, I love that.
I love that, Esther.
I mean, it just speaks to the fact that speaking is about so much more than just in the mind, right?
It's not just an intellectual activity.
It's a visceral activity.
And I resonate with this from learning Spanish.
You know, when I'm out of practice with my Spanish, my R's don't sound right.
And, you know, things just don't sound right.
My mouth feels kind of clumsy.
Does that sound familiar?
Yeah.
Definitely.
Definitely.
Definitely.
And it feels strange at first to change the way you move your mouth.
It feels very, very odd.
But the more you practice, the more it feels more natural.
Okay.
Yeah.
If we want to use an analogy, it's like a tennis serve.
If you're changing your tennis serve, you have to move your muscles differently, move your hand differently, move your arm differently.
And the more you do that, the more automatic that new positioning and that new physical positioning becomes.
And it's the same with your mouth.
The more you move it in a different way, the more that physical movement becomes the automatic one.
Yeah, that makes so much sense.
But what can students do?
I mean, should they be actually watching videos?
Should they be watching the mouths of speakers and try to mimic it?
Or how do we actually change our structure, our formation?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So part of that is watching how, if you're in America, how Americans move their mouth.
The other part is... you know, whatever you're using to learn your new accent.
For instance, in our course we have training videos and we show and we describe how to move your mouth, your tongue, your jaw differently, so that you literally know where to put your tongue, where to put your teeth, how to move your lips, your jaw, et cetera.
But also just looking at people and playing around.
You can...
Say it one way and listen to, you know, record yourself.
Say it another way, record.
Yeah, and just watch how people move their lips.
For a lot of languages.
They don't move their lips as much as we do in English, whether it's American English or Australian English.
They don't open their mouth as much.
We open our mouths a lot compared to a lot of other languages.
Interesting.
OK, good to know.
I mean, so our listeners have to kind of get beyond.
I think sometimes students and listeners feel a little bit ashamed or embarrassed.
So maybe this is something to start on your own, when you're just in your room and no one can see you.
And then you branch out to doing this out in the world.
Yeah, definitely.
Definitely.
And I'm going to actually address that.
For my third point.
Yeah, perfect.
So what would be the second then?
This is great.
So we can't move our mouth in the same way as the first.
So what would be the second, Esther?
So the second one is don't try and work on changing everything at once.
Unless you're an amazing mimic, which most of us are not.
So what I say to people is this, be patient with yourself.
If you try and change everything all at once, your mouth can't make anything automatic in your speech.
Okay.
It's just all too much.
You can't bend down that new muscle memory.
So usually I recommend you choose one or two specific things at a time.
And practice those in words sentences paragraphs, et cetera until they're automatic, and then choose another two and then work on those.
Okay.
Love that.
So, for an example, you might choose T-H and the and to work on, so those two elements and you work on words and sentences, paragraphs with th in them and in them, until your new pronunciation becomes automatic.
Or you might choose a vowel and syllable stress in words.
Yes, I love that.
We have to gain that confidence, right, Esther?
I mean, we know that that affective filter guys, it's going to go up.
We're going to get, you know, frustrated and we're not going to be able to remember learning more than two things right.
So keeping it to one to two things to change is the key right there.
I love that.
Yeah.
And then, or you might use one other quick combination is a vowel with what you call catenization.
I listened to one of your podcasts with that word.
And I call it linking.
And that makes your rhythm more flowing in English.
Anyway, having said that, I'm going to suggest so you choose two things, you work on those, you make them automatic.
Then you choose another two.
But at the same time running underneath like you're walking on the floor or the carpet.
I suggest at the same time.
People are still always practising the melody and the resonance of English.
Because you're practising anyway.
So, for example, there are quite a few languages that have a flat sound melody.
So, for instance and English doesn't the pitch goes up when we're stressing something and our melody goes up when we're stressing something.
I'll give you an example.
So if I say with the stress pitch and the pitch, sorry the melody that goes down in some of the languages.
If I say, I went to the house...
So did you hear it all went down?
If you use that sort of melody in English, you sound like you're bored.
Yeah, for sure.
So it has more ramification because like you guys talk about connecting, right?
Yes, it's all about connection.
Exactly.
Yeah, that's huge.
So it would sound like you're bored.
You're not connected.
I don't care what you're saying.
So if I do it with the, let's say, the English melody...
I went to the house.
So I go up and down.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
So you're saying, so this really comes back to connection, right?
If we sound bored, people will think we're bored and that's it.
The connection ends right there.
Yeah.
I love that point.
So that's your second point there, Esther.
So focusing on one to two key things and making sure that they're the right things.
And at the end of the episode we can let listeners know how to find you so that maybe, if they want to, they can focus on some of these things with you specifically.
But what would be the third tip then?
The third tip is don't expect people to understand you better if you don't use your new pronunciation in your everyday situations.
Which goes back to yes, practice at home, but then be brave, go out.
Okay.
I love it.
Go and use it.
Now, how to start using it, can I give a couple of tips there?
Yeah, please do.
Please do.
We'd love it.
And because I know it's difficult at first.
Some people feel embarrassed.
Some people feel, you know, weird about using a new way of sounding, yeah?
For sure.
Yeah.
But I suggest they begin by using the new pronunciation, their new English pronunciation, in situations where they don't have to say that much.
So, for example, let's say they're working on TH, okay?
They're getting a new TH, they're using TH that they haven't used it and they've been practicing at home.
Then they go.
So use little situations.
They might go into the coffee shop and ask for a coffee.
Okay.
Yeah.
Okay.
Okay.
So it's like micro tasks then.
Yes, yes.
And you think okay, so I'm working on TH.
When I go in I'll make sure I say thank you with my new TH, or that's fine, with my new TH.
So you consciously go in small, or you're buying a ticket somewhere, or you something you know.
Have a short if you know you're going to have a short conversation on the phone and it's something you have to say often.
Let's say you're at work, for instance, and it's the same sentence you have to say to everybody, the customers, whoever.
Then make sure you go all right.
When I'm going to use that sentence, or two or three sentences, I'm going to make sure I use my new TH.
Yeah.
I love this idea.
It's a little micro tasks, little activities you're doing with yourself and no one else has to know, right.
That way we're not going all in the first time and we can experiment.
We can compare one day to the next.
Maybe for one week you're, as you say, getting a new TH, which I love that.
And you're doing one specific thing ordering a coffee with the TH talking to the doorman, or something like that.
That is so good.
I'm glad that you acknowledge that Esther, that students can be afraid to go out and use what they've just learned.
Maybe they've invested a lot of money in getting a new TH.
And then they are not going out and using it.
And then the progress doesn't show up.
So I love that.
I love that.
Anything else about that tip?
Yes, there is.
Just one more quick thing on that one is you can always slow down to use your let's.
If we keep the analogy of the th going, or the example of the th, you can always slow down.
So if you're going, you know you're going to say thank you for getting your coffee, then you just go, thank you and slow down.
Now the person you're talking to doesn't know you're slowing down, Right right.
They just know that you're being clear.
They go, oh, I can understand.
They don't say it consciously, but they can understand you.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, absolutely.
One small change makes a huge difference to your clarity.
Yes, I love that, Esther.
This is fantastic.
I mean, I feel like we're just skimming the surface, right?
These are just introductory ideas, guys, of...
What you could do and the progress that you could see.
This is just getting started.
But Esther, you do have a pronunciation school online and also in person there in Sydney.
Isn't that right?
Yes, yes, yes.
Awesome.
So I've developed online training courses.
You can learn a British, American or Australian accent or just neutralize your accent using any of those courses if you just want to be clearer and better understood.
So they're online.
But I also do assessments.
People can get an assessment and know exactly what they have to practice for themselves, so their practice is more effective that way, instead of just doing the whole course.
You know what i mean.
Of course, yeah.
And the other thing is sorry, go ahead.
Yeah no, go ahead, esther yeah.
And the other thing is i i do have a clinic in sydney, australia.
People come in and work with me here, but i can also.
I have worked with a lot of people from all over the world doing private coaching on Skype as well, if people so wish to have that as well.
Okay.
I love that.
So then where can our listeners go to learn more about what you do and to contact you?
Okay.
So, um to find me online, it's uh, speak more clearlycom, and for Facebook and YouTube, it's just speak more clearly.
Okay.
That's great.
So speak more clearly.
Yeah.
Yes.
Okay, that's great.
So guys, I want to encourage you to go over and check out what Esther is doing.
See if you can get help if you need it.
And I feel like these are really good tips to get us started here.
And I really want our listeners to not have these obstacles in life, right?
We're learning such great vocabulary over here at All Ears English.
And if we combine that with some pronunciation training, we can really reach our goals in the world.
In English
So good.
Yes.
Yes, definitely.
That's been so great.
Thank you.
Yeah, this has been great, Esther.
Thanks for coming on the show and I hope to have you on the show again soon.
Happy to do that.
Bye for now.
All right.
Bye.
Take care.
Bye-bye.
Bye.
Bye.
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