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Some researchers had used this technique I created in Europe and measured physiological reactivity before. giving a speech, a stressful event, and showed that.
You've probably heard of something called the power pose, right?
And there's a lot of debate in the scientific literature whether the power pose has scientific validity.
And a lot of people feel it doesn't. And the reason why I think that this kind of powerful in control reflection has greater evidence of scientific validity than power posing is because we're tapping into our own authentic experiences.
And we're building off something that we did.
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Adam thanks for joining us today. It's my honor and privilege.
I'm so happy to be here. Well, you stole my words.
I was going to say it's my honor and privilege, my friend.
So thank you for that. And how would you get us started by telling us a little bit about yourself and what you do?
I'm Adam Glinsky. I'm a professor at Columbia Business School.
I am also an author of a Spire, and I am a social scientist researcher.
Listeners, my friend Adam is quite humble.
I will give a... a proper bio before this because we have a legend in our myth.
This is fantastic. And if your second, if this book Is anything close to as good as friend and foe?
I mean, I... The world is in for a treat.
So can you tell the listeners a little bit about...
Well, both books, because I love the first one, but I know we're here to talk more about the second one, but I think there's a bit of a nexus too.
Yeah. The first book was called Friend and Foe, and it was really about this idea that we can understand all of human nature by appreciating that there is this constant tension between being a friend and a foe, right?
Even in a marriage, we're cooperating, but we're also competing sometimes for our kids' affection or for doing different tasks.
And so to understand how to navigate human nature effectively, you have to understand that there's this constant tension between friend and foe.
Now, fast forward 10 years later, this new book has actually kind of kind of a subtle complementary angle to it, which is I'm between friend and foe.
Now, fast forward 10 years later, this new book has actually kind of a subtle complementary impact. angle to it, which is I've been asking tens of thousands of people across the globe a very simple set of questions.
Tell me about a leader that inspires you and tell me about a leader that infuriated you.
And what I've done is I've analyzed these tens of thousands of examples and I've come to three epiphanies or fundamental insights about human nature.
And the first, and it gets back a little bit to the friend and foe idea, is that the inspiring person and the infuriating person are mirror images of each other.
So just to give you two examples, the inspiring person is Courageous, right?
The infertile person is cowardly. The inspiring person is generous, right?
They share credit with others, right? the infuriating person steals credit and takes credit for everything.
And so we can start to see that there is kind of this continuum between being inspiring and infuriating.
The second... insight is that this continuum is made up of three universal factors.
There's not a single inspiring and infuriating characteristic that's not mentioned on every continent and every country in the world. the world.
Now, what are those three universal factors? being visionary, which is how we see the world.
They are being an exemplar of desired behavior, how we are in the world, and they are being an aspiring mentor, which is how we interact with others in the world.
Now, the reason why these are the three universal factors of inspiring leadership or inspiring people is because each one satisfies a fundamental human need.
Being visionary satisfies the fundamental human need for meaning and understanding.
Being an exemplar satisfies the fundamental human need for feeling a sense of protection, but also energy and passion.
Being a mentor really fulfills the fundamental human need of feeling like I belong and I'm respected by other people.
And then the third insight is maybe the single most important one, which is because there is a universal set of inspiring characteristics.
Those can be learned. they can be developed, they can be practiced, they can be nurtured so that we can become more inspiring.
We are not born as inspiring or infuriating individuals.
It is our current behavior. that inspires and infuriates.
So that has two really dramatic implications.
First of all is we never achieve perfection or inspiring apotheosis.
We're always going to fall back towards the infuriating side of the spectrum at various points.
As a parent, I was probably inferring to my kids six times in the last week, right?
But the good news is that Even if we're inferior today, there's a path for us that could become more inspiring tomorrow.
And so because inspiring leaders aren't born, because they're made, because we can learn, we can always become more inspiring. tomorrow than we were today.
Incredible. And Adam, one of the things I love about the way that you write is that you can take something that is very kind of scary and intimidating, the concept of leadership.
And then you can take all of this robust research.
And then you can synthesize it into something so simple without it becoming simplistic and and also empowering and encouraging.
Because at the end of it, we can understand not only what we need to do, but also have the belief There's three components.
The first one is that it is... a big picture, optimistic view of the future.
So you just mentioned, very complimentary about my writing that is optimistic, right?
And it connects to sort of larger ideas.
The second thing is that We can take that big picture, optimistic view of the future, and we can simplify it into its essence, but also visualize it.
And then the third thing is that we have to share and repeat it.
Repetition becomes really important. And one of my favorite examples of what I mean by simplifying and visualizing something is imagine a company has a mission. statement, which is like our mission is to have satisfied customers versus our Our mission is to make our customers smile.
A smile is more visual. And so what research has shown, Drew Carton of Wharton has shown this, that when you use that more visual language, people become more engaged, more motivated, more inspired.
And so hopefully that's what I try to do in my writing is to have a big picture, optimistic view of the future that I see. simplified so people could process it and try to write it in a compelling and engaging way.
This is personally quite helpful. I'm at a speaker's conference. learning how to craft your message more effectively.
And now I'm going to come back with all of these new tricks.
Everybody's going to wonder. Where did I go to get this new information?
This is fantastic. Adam, when I think about this and I think about the listeners out there, I think we have people who are leaders and aspiring leaders.
And in whatever way we are all leading people in different ways, in our own way, in our organizations, our families, whatever it happens to be.
Now when we think about this, I'm not sure how many everyday leaders think about themselves through the lens of inspiration.
And it sounds like we're really missing out on a lot of persuasive value when it comes to our leadership. when we don't consider inspiration.
So can you... Speak to the everyday leader who might not think through this lens and help them to understand the value of it.
I think sometimes people don't think about themselves as leaders when they are leaders, right?
And so one of the most important things that I think what leadership really about is are people looking up to you and paying attention to your behavior, right?
And so oftentimes when we're in a position of authority, people are paying attention to us because we have power and they want to make sure that they get the outcomes they want.
So they have to pay close attention to us.
But even when we respect someone or look up to them, their words have a great impact on us.
So I coined a phrase and it's the opening chapter of the book. called the leader amplification effect, right?
And the leader amplification effect is that Anytime that people are paying attention to you, and from psychology, we know that when people pay attention to something, it affects. amplifies its impact and intensifies the reactions that we have to that.
I could have called it maybe the leader intensification effect too, right?
And so the idea is that when... People are tending to your behavior and your behavior matters to them. because they respect you or because you have power, whatever you say and do really, really impacts people.
So I'll give you one example. My first day as a doctoral student, 1993, my first class, three-hour class, 10 other students, there was 11 of us submitted into the PhD program at Princeton University in psychology.
It was a Danny Kahneman who had one day win the Nobel Prize in economics.
And I raised my hand. I said something I thought was insightful.
And I still remember 30 years later, the four things Danny did that crossed his arms, shies the reactions that we had to that.
I could have called it maybe the leader intensification effect too, right?
And so the idea is that when... People are tending to your behavior and your behavior matters to them. because they respect you or because you have power, whatever you say and do really, really impacts people.
So I'll give you one example my first day as a doctoral student, 1993, my first class, three-hour class, 10 other students, there was 11 of us submitted into the PhD program at Princeton University in psychology.
It was a Danny Kahneman who had one day win the Nobel Prize in economics.
And I raised my hand. I said something I thought was insightful.
And I still remember 30 years later, the four things Danny did that crossed his arms. shook his head, scrunched up his face and said, that's not right at all.
And, you know, the rest of the class, you know, he then smiled and moved on and the rest of the class did too.
But I was like frozen. Yeah. in place, like I was mortified, right?
That offhand comment For him, it was just like, that's not right at all, right?
It was like humiliating criticism. But six weeks later, I was just walking down the hallway and I see Danny Kahneman.
And Danny says, over his shoulder, He says, hey, Adam, I love reading your reflection papers.
You're a great writer. and they turned the corner.
And I was filled with so much energy, I literally skipped down the hallway.
And Danny Kahneman doesn't remember these comments.
I wrote about them in the New York Times in 2015.
And he wrote to me an email. He's like, It's like, but he's like, he doesn't remember it because they were insignificant to him, right? but they were deeply impactful to me because I looked up to him.
Recently, I had an example with one of my sons.
He wanted to read a book to me because he's becoming a realist. now, you know, and I want to display his craft.
And at one point I got a little distracted by something popped up on my phone.
And when I looked at my phone, he got so upset that he ran off the couch and went into his bedroom and cried.
And it was because he looked up to me. He wanted my approval.
He wanted me to pay too. And because my attention wavered, that stung so deeply. to him.
So what Danny Kahneman did to me, I did to my son.
And so one of the things that I tell people this is a slightly different variation of your question, right?
Which is most people don't think of them as inspiration, but most people don't even recognize that they're in a position of leadership itself.
And leadership just comes whenever someone looks up to you, whenever someone's paying attention to your behavior and your behavior matters to them.
Now, I think you're also right that we can move the needle when we recognize that because of that attention, we're either going to infuriate or inspire.
So we don't have a choice. We don't have a choice to have an impact, but we have a powerful choice on whether we use that attention for good or bad.
And so Danny Kahn is a good example. Imagine Danny Kahneman once a week said, I'm going to reach out and compliment one of the PhD students. something I thought they did good.
They did a good comment last week. Like he's going to transform their life and it probably cost him two minutes.
And so one of the things that I teach people is I say, if you want to inspire people, praise them for things that are praiseworthy.
So what I mean by that is like be specific, be calibrated, right?
But when you see someone do something good, let them know.
And I actually teach people something interesting.
I say, if you want to give someone a compliment, do it over email or text.
Now, why do I do that? Why do I tell them to do it over email and text?
There's two reasons. you get inspired back knowing that you had this inspiring impact on them.
And like I said with the Dan Econom example, doesn't take any time at all.
I just give you one other quick example.
I was teaching 50 CEOs And at 10.15, I gave them what I call the leader amplification effect called action.
I said, pick three people. Sometimes today, send a text or email that says, you knocked out that presentation out of the park.
Or last week when I had to like, put their report together.
I couldn't have done it without your help, right?
And I said, send that, you know, be specific.
And so 1025. We're about to take a break at 10.30.
So 10.25, one of the CEOs raised his hand and said, I've already sent all three of my emails.
I've already gotten responses back. One person was like I'm finally going to take my spouse to that restaurant they always wanted to go to to celebrate your email.
And I say there's two really important insights from this about my research.
The first is CEOs are impulsive. He couldn't even rate to 1030 to do it at the break, right?
He just did it right then. But the second thing is it didn't take him any time at all. like took him less than three minutes probably, right?
Because in 10 minutes, he had sent them and already gotten responses back from everyone.
And so just that's how you can spread the seeds of inspiration. is look for ways to have a positive impact by elevating other people.
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Adam, there's so much to explore here. First of all, quick note, as you were saying that I was thinking to myself, Man, there are three people I'm going to send it to right now.
So I've got that impulse of nature too. But I think one thing is just recognizing that we have more power than we realize.
And a lot of times, even if we don't think of ourselves as a traditional leader or we might not have high ranking authority within our organization, an organization.
If people look up to us, we are a leader.
And that might just be one person or two people, but that still matters.
And so we have that power that can be scary.
But then if we see the other side, we can see there's a massive opportunity to create really lasting positivity. positive impacts on other people.
Another thing to recognize is that there are A lot of times we have this black and white thinking when it comes to the modality of communication.
Okay, in person is the best all the time. or whatever it happens to be, but we recognize- Much to explore here.
First of all, quick note, as you were saying that, I was thinking to myself, man, there are three people I'm gonna send it to right now.
So I have got that impulse of nature too.
But I think one thing is just recognizing that we have more power than we realize.
And a lot of times, even if we don't think of ourselves as a traditional leader, or we might not have high ranking authority within our an organization.
If people look up to us, we are a leader.
And that might just be one person or two people, but that still matters.
And so we have that power that can be scary.
But then if we see the other side, we can see there's a massive opportunity to create really lasting positivity. positive impacts on other people.
Another thing to recognize is that there are, a lot of times we have this black and white thinking when it comes to the modality of communication.
Okay, in-person is the best all the time or whatever it happens to be, but we recognize that Depending on the circumstances, there are instances where one modality is better than another.
And this is a fantastic example. of when, hey, text, email, something that can be documented and savored is more effective. for these psychological purposes.
And it actually brings us closer together by using that asynchronous modality.
That's really powerful. And then just lastly, again, circling back to the very beginning, it does not take much for us to do this.
This isn't hard to do. We just need to take the step to do it.
And I think a lot of times there might be somebody listening to this who's a leader who's saying, Okay, well, this is nice.
Woo woo. A smile goes across the world, hypothetically, I guess.
And they might be missing the main point when it comes to being a leader and being persuasive and getting the job done.
So now let's tie this together. For the person who is a leader who says, I'm just focused on the best business directives.
I'm just focused on the trying to get the people from here to there and changing the way that they think, let's really hammer home why it's so important to have this fundamental understanding of inspiration and the power of positivity in relationships.
Yeah, I mean, again, one of the things I said earlier is that being visionary really satisfies the fundamental need for meaning and understanding, being exemplar satisfies the need for that sense of protection, right?
And then being... We see that... you know, politicians talk about, I will protect you, right?
Like I will look out for you. And that fundamental needs for belonging and feeling respected by people out in the world.
And we can transform people's lives. Now, we also need to attend to our own experiences.
So one of the things that I've shown in my research and research I have a paper that's just coming out in one of the the top psychology journals in the world.
I worked on for a very long time and I'm very proud of.
But we basically showed that when people feel insecurity, they become what we call stingier.
They become stingy and sharing credit. They want to put blame on other people.
They become defensive. one of the things that makes us understand is how can we feel comfortable more secure ourselves so that we can be more inspiring and infuriating, but we can also make other people happy be more inspiring by attending to their insecurities and helping assuage them.
Right. Out that. So if I say, you know, what I've shown in my research is and I call them this little tyrants.
And the people that are most likely to be a little tyrant are people that have control over some important resources.
They have power, but they are not respected by others.
So two classic roles in the world would be someone who processes, reimbursements, and organization.
They really control this important finger money, but they're often not high level administrators or like a bouncer at a club.
They control this really valuable resource entry into this club, but they're not very well respected.
But one of the reasons why we dislike these people so much is they actually treat us badly because What I've shown in my research is that when we have low status, we feel disrespected and that makes us angry.
But because we control that resource, we can act out against other people.
So one of the best things we can do is make that person feel respected.
So as one example, when I was at Northwestern, we had a person in charge of reimbursements and she was like the soup Nazi on Seinfeld.
Like if you didn't handle the form in the right way, she would freak out. she literally had red tape, like cross her cubicles saying like, this is, you know, do not cross this red line.
But, She had kidney issues. She couldn't travel.
And, you know, also financially probably, but she loves Snopes.
And so what I and some other people realized is that wherever I went in the world, I would always get her a snow globe from that place.
I'd bring it back and say, oh, you know, I was in Morocco and I, you know, I saw this snow globe or I was. in Sydney, Australia.
And I was at the, here's a snow globe of Sydney Opera House, you know, I was currying her favor for sure, but I was also signaling that she mattered. that she was worthy of respect, that I had taken the time and attention to think about what she cared about.
And then once I started giving the snow globes, all of my reimbursements magically got expedited.
But it was very well calibrated. If I forgot a snow globe the next time, then they would languish again.
So it was a kind of a roller coaster, you know, of a Or a treadmill, I guess is a better way of saying that.
But it's, again, just a simple example. of showing people solving their insecurities, showing them respect is such a powerful powerful, powerful motive for people.
And we can be more inspiring ourselves when we find ways to feel more secure ourselves.
Oh, this is fascinating because we have two things that I want to explore here first.
First thing is the power of self-work. And then the second thing is the misconception of persuasion versus manipulation.
So when it comes to the self work, We're recognizing that our insecurities, if we don't do anything about them, if we don't work to build ourselves up and address these challenges. it is going to manifest into problems not only for ourselves, but to other people as well.
And then on the other side, too, there are some people who listen and they might say, Adam, I'm vibing with this.
I agree with everything that you're saying, but there's a part of me that does not feel comfortable doing this because isn't this manipulation?
Isn't it a situation where I'm just doing this to get what I want?
Isn't there something icky about that? Can you speak to that situation? fear that some people have when it comes to persuasion?
Yeah, I'll say, let me answer the second question first about like persuasion as inspiration versus manipulation, right?
That's sort of one way that you could think about it.
And I think that there's something different between, I like to say that you can be strategic and authentic at the same time.
And here's what I mean by that, is that I can strategically...
Always try to find this person at Northwestern a snow globe.
But I can also be authentic in connecting it to her and talking about why I picked this particular snow globe. and why I thought she would particularly like this particular snow globe.
If we go back to that CEO sending those three emails and then getting their pay, they're going to reach out to me to inspire me.
So you could say it's all, it's like Phoebe on Friends when she wanted to have true altruism and realized that every time she did something for someone else, she felt good about it.
She wanted to just feel bad about it, you know, and that would be altruistic.
It's like, we are... as humans wanna want other people to be happy.
And it gave me joy true, genuine, authentic joy that I made this person at Northwestern's life a little better by bringing her snow globe.
And I was also happy that I got my reimbursements expedited too. back to the first part of your question.
Now, remind me what it was again. Sorry.
Oh, about the insecurity. It was a poorly worded question.
I'm so excited. So yeah, about insecurity, doing your own self work.
Yeah, yeah. So how do we solve our own insecurities?
So I just said that to you. It's like we can solve other people's insecurities, but we can solve our own.
And I want to just tell you about two techniques that I've used that have been incredibly powerful.
So let's take the insecurity of losing your job.
There's one of the five biggest stressors in the world is being unemployed. increases depression, anxiety, even suicide rates, right?
It makes people feel dislocated from the world, right?
We worked with a Swiss employment agency.
So in Switzerland, when you get employed to get any employment benefits, have to go to an employment agency in person.
And we did a little experiment. And this is something that we require every MBA student to do at Columbia. when they, in the first week, they get their MBA.
But we ask people to reflect on their values.
And we said, we want you to reflect on your values, pick four to five values that are most important to you, but also put them into a hierarchy.
Like which one's the most important value to you?
And how do these other ones sort of animate from that most important one?
And think about how have you demonstrated your values in your life in the last few weeks or so?
Like give an example where you demonstrate that values and, you know, think about why they matter to you so much.
Two months later, the people that have been randomly assigned to get this values reflection task were twice as likely to be employed.
And the effect was so powerful that we had to end the experiment and give everyone the values reflection tasks, the values intervention.
It's kind of like the old study when they discovered that aspirin helped with heart attacks.
They had to end the study and give everybody aspirin.
It was kind of like that. The reason why we chose to do this in the unemployment context, because there's a guy named Jeff Cohen at Stanford who did a study with eighth graders at an at-risk school and half the people were randomly assigned to engage in this reflection task four times over a two-year period.
Those students were more likely to graduate college, or sorry, high school four years later.
They're also more likely to go to college.
So there's something incredibly powerful.
We can solve our insecurities. by reflecting on our values.
Here's the second way that we can resolve our insecurities.
We can resolve our insecurities by thinking about times when in a particular context we felt powerful, in control, our best self, etc.
Now, this may be hard to believe, but I used to get so nervous With public speaking.
So nervous that I literally couldn't even hold something because my hands were shaking so much. and I would feel suffocated.
But at some point, I started to engage in this reflection about the times when I had given a good talk and thinking about that and recognizing that I gave that talk and And here's how it felt to give that good talk.
And so that's why we. chose to do this in the unemployment context because there's a guy named Jeff Cohen at Stanford who did a study with eighth graders. at an at-risk school and half the people were randomly assigned to engage in this reflection task four times over a two-year period.
Those students were more likely to graduate high school four years later.
They're also more likely to go to college.
So there's something incredibly powerful.
We can solve our insecurities. by reflecting on our values.
Here's the second way that we can resolve our insecurities.
We can resolve our insecurities by thinking about times when in a particular context we felt powerful, in control, our best self, etc.?
? Now, this may be hard to believe, but I used to get so nervous with public speaking.
So nervous that I literally couldn't even hold something because my hands were shaking so much.
And I would feel suffocated. But at some point, I started to engage in this reflection about... the times when I had given a good talk.
And thinking about that and recognizing that I gave that talk and here's how it felt to give that good talk.
And so then I was able to go give a talk with less anxiety.
And so I've shown in my research, I created an intervention about thinking about times when we felt powerful and in control And I've shown in my research that it makes people more confident.
It makes them feel more authentic. it helps them take appropriate risks.
And even it physiologically calms them down.
Like if you Some researchers had used this technique I created in Europe and measured physiological activity before giving a speech, a stressful event, and showed that.
And you've probably heard of something called the power pose, right?
And there's a lot of debate in the scientific literature whether the power pose has scientific validity.
And a lot of people feel it doesn't. And the reason why I think that this kind of powerful, in-control reflection has greater impact evidence of scientific validity than power posing is because we're tapping into our own authentic experiences.
And we're building off something that we did right in the past. rather than just trying to hold a pose, which may feel awkward for some people.
And so those two reflections, thinking about your values... how you've demonstrated them, why they matter, or thinking about, let's say, A time when you did this task and you were in control and you were the best version of yourself on this task.
Both of those solve our deep insecurities and make us more inspiring.
It's amazing. And Adam, again, going back to what we talked about at the beginning, this is all doable stuff.
And so listeners, first of all, just a little aside here.
If you're somebody who is very nervous before a speech, just know you too can have a TED Talk with millions of views. if you can work to overcome that like Adam.
And then secondly, I love how you've been able to operationalize overcoming our institutions. because you really diminish the excuse of what it takes to overcome insecurities.
Because when we think about it, It's something that's big and scary that we've been dealing with for a long time. overestimate the amount of work that it takes to start chipping away.
It will take a lot of work, But you're recognizing that there are things that you can do today to start chipping away at those insecurities.
And I love that we're essentially, would it be fair to say this is a positive priming type of exercise that we're doing?
Yeah. That's the exact word is priming.
We're priming in some ways our best self and bringing it.
First time I taught, I put my hands together.
And I talk like this and I felt like such a awkward, inauthentic buffoon.
And then later I realized, okay, I'm going to be animated.
I'm going to go across, you know, just found the style that worked for me.
Same thing with monologues. Contras, right?
You know, it's like I always love in Tin Cup when Kevin Costner says, dollar bill before he swings or Ted Lasso, right?
Barbecue sauce, right? Before he throws the dart or So, you know, part of it is what's the thing that works for you?
And that's the thing that really matters.
That is so good. To me, it's sparking a whole different conversation for a whole different podcast interview with you, but I know you're busy on this book tour.
Adam, I really appreciate you coming on the show today.
Before you go, can you please remind the listeners again about the work you do and the book you're promoting right now?
Sure, I'm Adam Glensky. I'm a social scientist at Columbia Business School and I have a book called Inspire, The Universal Path for leading yourself and others.
Another subheading we almost had was the universal path for transforming yourself and others.
I'll just say one thing about the book. We talked about some people don't recognize that they're leaders, right?
But here's the thing about the book. Everything in the book will help you be a better parent, a more inspiring parent, less infuriating parent, a better spouse. a more inspiring colleague, a more inspiring friend, a more inspiring person when your flight gets canceled.
And so what you're going to discover is that when you put inspiring energy out there, you will receive inspiring energy back and your life is going to be better.
And the life of everyone around you is also going to be better. be better.
Amazing. Adam, thank you so much for joining us.
Really appreciate it. Oh, it's my honor, my privilege.
Wait, wait, wait, wait. Now, before you sign off, I have something to tell you that I've never told you before.
Just kidding, I've told you before, but you should listen to it again.
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Imagine all of the things that you love about our traditional feed, plus so much more.
I know you like our traditional feed because you're at the end of the episode.
And with Negotiate Anything Premium, you'll get more bonus content you've been asking for. more of the expert insights that you can't get anywhere else, and more exclusive behind the scenes access into every conversation.
Are you ready to get more of what you want out of your life, career, and every conversation?
With Negotiate Anything Premium, you'll have access to more high level, custom-designed content and insights giving you the tools you need to negotiate higher salaries, better deals, and better relationships in your life and career.
Once I had a listener share that Negotiate Anything helped her to negotiate a $53,000 raise.
Could this be you? What would that mean for your life?
I've seen firsthand the impact this model has had on my life and the lives of my corporate clients, and I am confident that it can do the same for you. are you ready to negotiate more of the best things in life click the link in the show notes to learn more i'll catch you later
