If we're not talking about our feelings.
Our mentee bee struggles.
Yeah.
Then I don't want it.
Wait, are you saying you have no friends?
I'm not saying I have no friends, but it's lacking in this season.
Big friend groups, families, anything.
There's drama.
Always.
There's drama.
Always.
You just don't want to, just don't compare.
Just don't.
Yeah.
Don't do it.
Yeah.
Don't know.
Don't know their circumstances.
Don't know if they're really friends.
To be interesting, you have to be interested.
That's a saying.
Not all of your friendships will deepen.
Not everyone will have the capacity to go there with you.
You might not even have the capacity to go there sometimes.
Ready?
Yes.
We can keep that in.
Welcome back to Voice Hugs, a podcast on becoming your best self and embracing all seasons of life with open arms.
It is your host Viv and Rose.
Hi everyone.
Hello, hello.
Hello.
Hello.
Baby is sleeping right now, so.
We are going to whisper this.
I think I was whispering, but we can talk normally.
I have eyes on him.
Today, we are going to do another hugs hotline.
Yay.
Do do do.
But instead of like a bunch of relationship questions, we're just going to focus on one.
One amazing, great question from M. From M. From M. M in Japan.
About friendships.
Mm-hmm.
I think it's such a huge thing in all of our lives, whether we are conscious of it or not.
If we're aware of it in our 20s, in our 30s, in our teens, when we're kids.
It's been present throughout our whole lives.
Yes.
So we wanted to spend a whole episode talking about friendships.
And to get us in the mood, let's do our feelings jar.
Feelings Jar.
Current weather report on our relationships with friends.
Yes.
Okay.
Oh, all of them came out.
Okay, start over.
Oh, one one, the chosen one.
The chosen one this week's category is and before we reveal it, please send us more categories, we will make a post on this describe your friendship with a carb carb carb carbohydrate, like pasta yeah, or like pizza.
Oh, I know what I want to say, but I'm trying to think of a good carb.
What is a carb that is non-existent?
You have no friends.
I'm not saying I have no friends, but it's lacking in this season.
Maybe like one of those thin pretzel sticks or something.
Like a healthy.
Yeah, like a healthy.
Like a healthy.
We don't like healthy carbs.
Like a healthy snack.
To be very, very honest, I don't think healthy carbs taste good.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Oh, maybe like a rice cracker.
Yeah, thin cracker.
So healthy.
But it's just air.
Can you elaborate?
Well, you know, in the season of motherhood, you have to prioritize, you have to shift around your priorities.
And I think of all the things, friendship is just one that I've kind of dropped.
I still have friends.
Yeah.
She still has me.
I have great friends around me.
But yeah, I think like, especially with the way that I deal with big changes, I tend to just kind of clam, close off, figure it out and I come back.
Yeah.
So I think I'm like on the tail end of it and I'm coming out.
But yeah, last year for sure.
I was just mostly a rice cracker.
I don't feel like my carb is a rice cracker.
Your carb is like a cinnamon roll.
I'm also not like a mother, you know.
The first thing that came to mind is like a sourdough loaf of bread.
I personally love the Trader Joe's sourdough loaf of bread, but just like a loaf of bread, like full fluffy, warm out of the oven dense yeah, crispy on the outside, chewy on the inside protected yeah, i like that.
Yeah, tell us more.
It's not that like my friendships have blossomed or anything in the last year, But I feel very grounded in the friendships that I have right now and my relationship with the idea of friends, if that makes sense.
Like I don't have the same expectations I did maybe even a year ago.
And so I just appreciate the friendship seasons that I currently am in.
I love that.
Mm hmm.
So on to friends, on to the question.
Before we get to the question, though, Hugs Hotline, another quick introduction.
Make sure that you submit your questions, your situations.
This is as we were reviewing this question, I was like wow, we actually haven't done an episode like this in season one.
Yeah.
Where we used to like read an entire email and answer the question or like deep dive into it.
Yes.
So hello at voicehugspodcast.com.
You can shoot us a DM at podcast at voicehugspodcast or you can record your voice.
Yeah, just literally think of it, as you know how some of us love, some of us process better by writing things out, some of us process better by leaving voice notes on like your phone right to like a friend.
So just think of it as doing that, Yeah.
Yeah.
And then the more details, the better.
And so that we can get the right context and know exactly what kind of questions you have.
Yes.
And this listener provided lots of details.
So our first official full episode hugs hotline.
Oh my gosh.
Where is it?
Begin now.
Begins now.
Okay.
Ready?
Yes.
That was a little intermission.
Okay.
Hi, Rowena and Vivian.
I've been a huge fan of your podcast since the beginning.
Please keep doing what you do.
I moved from Vancouver to Japan eight years ago and experienced a best friend breakup for the first four years.
I didn't make any close friends, but in my fifth year I've met a wonderful person who is now my close friend.
I never thought I would make friends in Japan.
I've always been the quiet, shy girl since I was little.
I also stutter when I speak, and I'm not used to opening up about myself to other people.
I also sometimes tend to lose focus on listening to other people talking and I would also reply with curt responses like okay, I see and yeah.
Now that I realize I look closed off.
Whenever I was with people last month, my close friend told me that he wanted me to open up more.
I was angry at myself for not trying hard enough to speak more.
He also said that not sharing about myself means i'm pushing people away.
I want to put my best effort in being verbally vulnerable and approachable.
He is the best thing that has ever happened to me.
I don't want to lose him and my other three tight-knitted friends.
My question is, how do you open up with friends to make a meaningful conversation?
In addition, what do you do to strengthen friendships and build deeper trust?
I look forward to your responses.
Here's to many more episodes and seasons of voice hugs.
Cheers.
Love, M. Listener from Japan.
Wow.
Wow.
First of all, congrats on the move.
That is huge.
Yeah.
From Vancouver to Japan.
I mean, it's a whole different country that speaks a whole different language.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And culturally just different.
Yeah.
Yeah, I guess we don't know if this person is like originally from Japan.
But yeah, I mean, I think moving anywhere is already quite difficult to get settled in and to form relationships in a community.
So that itself is already like tough.
Yeah.
The situation that she's in.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think the first thing that stuck out to me about this email is there is a strong sense of self-awareness.
There is awareness that she's shy, that she's quiet, and it has been quiet.
She maybe has a difficult time opening up.
And then also i think this part really stands out too that i sometimes tend to lose focus on listening to other people talking and um, i can look closed off whenever i was with people right, and i think, a lot of times.
Of course, you know, the first step is self-awareness, and when it comes to friendships, there's like two parts to it there's the actual talking part and there's the listening part.
So that was definitely the first thing that stood out to me.
Yeah let's, let's break that down.
Yeah, I feel like with there's the showing up part.
Okay, well, that's actually the first step.
The first step is the showing up.
Yeah, even like meeting someone physically.
Yeah, to be like, I'm going to meet you.
That is like already... give yourself a pat on the back.
Yeah.
And then it's the showing up.
It's sure opening up.
But then I think to be you know how, like all those book, how to win friends and influence people and like how to be like irresistible, or how to be like the most magnetic person or like charming person in the room.
Not that this is what we want to do, but all of these books basically just say ask good questions.
And to be able to ask good questions um, i think, a you need to be genuinely curious, b you have to listen, and then, c you have to like come up with the questions but then also not have your questions because you know okay, a lot of times this is what happens.
You're like in a conversation with someone, you're like nervous just because, i don't know, a lot of us are all like anxious now and they go oh, my god, they said this.
And then in your head you're like oh, and then i'm gonna ask her this question.
And then you realize yes, this is how I'm gonna, perfectly with the question.
And you realize you just missed half of what she just said, or like half of what your friend just said, right?
So I think like there's also that part of like, like taking a deep breath and just like being present in the conversation.
And it's through being present in the conversation, where you'll you'll listen to what the other person is saying and where you'll you may be able to catch like little things where you're like Oh interesting.
Like you used to live in Vancouver.
That is so cool.
Like, you know, what made you like, what was your favorite part of living in the city?
What made you want to move to Japan?
Um um, like what has living in japan been like?
And i think you can pull out these things that you're naturally interested in for me.
I think i love the origin story of people, like what makes them who they are today, the struggles that they've gone through, and in conversations i wouldn't be.
I'd be very conscientious and thoughtful about it.
But if they were to be like, oh yeah, you know, like i went through this thing and then blah blah, i'd be like oh like, if you don't mind sharing, like what did you go through?
And like it's totally fine if you know you don't want to.
It's just like asking about things that can help you understand this person more.
So it's kind of like It's not like you're an investigator, but you're just following your curiosity.
Yeah.
So also know what you're curious about.
Yeah.
I mean, it clearly sounds like this person really cares about this friend and maybe just doesn't know how to navigate that conversation.
But I think the unique part of this story, too, is that her friend wants her to open up.
So already there's a safe environment where this person's actually saying like Hey, I actually want a little bit more from you.
Like, please share more because it comes off as like you're pushing people away.
So in a lot of ways I think, when you are building that relationship it takes time to you.
Don't have to like fully deep dive the first time you meet or even the first year that you're friends.
It doesn't have to be super super sharing all your secrets or your deepest vulnerabilities.
It takes time and it sounds like at this point in their friendship they've gotten to a point where he's like give me a little bit more.
You know like I want to be here for you and I want to support you.
And so now it's exactly as Ro is sharing, where you can ask the questions and knowing that sometimes maybe it's easy to like wander off and not focus on, like the listening part.
Like bring yourself back in to actually listen to what the other person is saying.
For me, when I meet up with a friend, if they remember something that I said the last time and I don't even remember saying that, it means a lot to me because it makes me feel like they were paying attention, they care, they're thinking about me.
If they ask me a follow-up of like, oh, how has that been since then?
It goes a long way.
So I think that's like an example of why the listening part is quite important.
And it's not just the it is showing up, but it's like also the listening.
Yeah.
Because it just shows that you care.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I think, especially if like, if we're more shy, if we're more, if we're a little more like closed off or if we're scared to open up ourselves, ways that we can show our friends that we care is to remember these things or to like check in on them and just be like yeah, I obviously care about you.
I remember the things that we talked about and Yeah, I think like to pull back on, like to zoom back out a little bit, I think, to really be able to even listen.
There's this it sounds like Em has this.
It's like social anxiety.
Yeah, a little bit.
That's why the response is short or fearful.
We respond that way when we're in our heads.
So I think what do you usually do to help yourself get out of your head if you're in social situations?
Or like what have you done in the past like 20, 30 years to help you show up in a way where you're less in your head and just more present in the conversation?
I think this one's kind of tough for me because I I like, I feel like I'm pretty open when I meet people.
Like I talked about this with Rory the other day.
I said, I feel like I have no pride.
Like I, I have no pride.
I'm just like, I'll share the things that I'm ashamed of.
I'll share the things I feel insecure about.
Um, and not like you know, like deep deep, deep things, but like I'm very open on, like I think it's your superpower.
Yeah yeah, and i actually i was thinking about this.
I feel like that's how we got close, because i don't think you would have felt comfortable doing the same if i wasn't like just very open book like this is the stuff i feel ashamed of.
This is the stuff that i'm embarrassed.
Yeah um, i've just been very open with that, but i'm trying to think like i do better on one-on-one settings for sure, same.
Yeah, i don't know how about networking?
Networking is like awful.
It's the worst.
I hate networking.
Yeah.
Because networking, you come in with this idea of like getting something out of that relationship already.
So then maybe it's like the intention you go in when you meet a friend, or like when you meet someone.
It's like, I don't want anything from you.
I just...
Because I think that's why I also don't like networking, right?
It's very transactional.
It's like someone is like, you're just trying to get something.
But maybe it's like the intention of going like, I just want to get to know you as a person.
You know, actually, okay.
I think a way to make your conversations more meaningful is simply telling the other person how you feel.
You don't have to tell them your childhood traumas.
Again, you don't have to tell them specific things about you.
But I think if you just start off by saying even with this, she was saying that I was angry at myself for not trying hard enough to speak more.
If I was to say that to you and say, like you know, after you brought that up to me, I just felt so mad at myself because this friendship she said like this is the best.
He's like one of the best things that's happened to me.
If I shared that to you, I think that would mean a lot.
It would mean a lot, yes.
Yeah, you'd be like, oh, wow, I didn't know Viv was going through such a hard time of speaking up.
She really wants to.
And as a friend, then you receive me in a different way.
So, even just starting with, like I feel angry, i feel frustrated, i feel stuck, i feel anxious, i feel anxious and that's why i respond that way.
I get stuck in my head but like i actually really care, i really want to stay connected.
These are the things that i'm working on.
Yeah, that's like one of the easiest ways to start that connection and that understanding.
Yeah, i think naming your feelings and your fears and saying it out loud i don't know if it's ironic, but it just flips the whole thing around right.
Like if i show up to anything, like for my wedding, like as soon as i got up to the mic, i'm like i don't know why i'm so nervous, but i'm very nervous.
Um, i'm so grateful you guys are all here.
As soon as you name it then like, everyone in the room will be like oh, it's okay, it makes that person relatable yeah, connected to them, you feel for them.
Yes, yeah.
And then by naming it because you're already like i'm anxious people are gonna be like oh, my god, she's anxious.
Like, Oh my God, it's so human to feel this way when you're like public speaking or whatever, right.
So then, even if it's meeting a friend, and then you're just nervous, you're just like hey like yeah, like I don't know why I'm just so nervous right now.
And, you know, and then the reason why you're nervous is because this is important to you.
Yeah.
Because his friend is special.
Yeah.
There's something to lose.
Yeah.
It's because a part of you wants to show up your best so that this friend can see your best and then potentially form a friendship and continue this friendship for a long time.
But I think it kind of goes back to we don't need to be the perfect versions of ourselves.
We just need to be on it.
We just need to be ourselves.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And show up like that way.
Yeah, because if your friend wants the best for you, the end goal is just to get closer and to understand each other more.
So if you're able to yeah, just call out your feelings, I think you'll go a long way.
Yeah, i was thinking like another fun trick you can do if it's not easy for you to bring things up is to kind of like inject structure into your relationship.
And i think i've seen this in like your relationship with james, and then mine with rory too, where and it's it kind of sounds a little formal but like if you start okay, like here's an example Roy and I we go on walkie-talkies.
And so, you know, take the dogs on a walk and we talk.
Because for a long time I felt like it's hard to feel connected if you don't block out like specific time.
And then during that time, we have like each other's full attention.
And so that's like one way where, during our walkie-talkie, we'll talk about our rose and thorn of the day, right.
And so in the beginning- It's a rose and thorn.
Rose and thorn is like basically like a good thing that happened to you, something that made you feel good, and then like um, something that happened that like upset you right, like a more negative thing.
The reason why we did this is because rory actually has a really really, really hard time opening up.
I'm like opposite of him in that way, and so in the beginning of our relationship i really i felt like why aren't you talking to me, like why aren't you telling me these things?
But these were like ways where we added structure into the relationship and it made him feel almost like permission to talk, because i think Sometimes, when people again because I feel like I don't have a problem speaking, I would guess that for people who do have a problem speaking and then just kind of sharing from what I see with Rory is that whatever happened in your childhood or like just your experiences, made you feel like maybe your opinions don't matter or you just really shouldn't speak up right,
Like you should let other people take up the space.
There's like a reason behind that behavior.
And so I think starting the meetup, right?
Even with cards, like we are not really strangers.
Yes, I was going to say the cards.
There's a lot of conversation starters.
You can ask ChatGPT for a list of questions and just start like your coffee day or like whatever with Walking dates anything.
I think even, like in the example that I shared earlier, At one point Rory was telling me like it's really hard for me.
It's really hard for me to say something because I've never been the person to do that.
So it would be helpful if you like brought this up.
Like if it helps when you think of things like a walkie talkie or like rose and thorns, because it's not something that he's used to.
Did he also say it's helpful when you ask him questions too?
Or is that something else?
I mean... Never mind, never mind.
So the thing is like, I ask him questions, but then he like does it Like?
He's like oh, like my day was good.
Yeah.
And then I'm like, okay, but then, like, what was good about the day?
Yeah.
And so even asking your friend to help you, like letting him know that this is something I want to work on, this is something that I would really appreciate if like, we can do in this friendship and it helps me if you, you know, help in this way, I think that like really helps.
Yeah, echoing the the, the cards, i think whether it is like any form of structure, whether it's like baked into the calendar, baked into your like friendship dates or baked into just like you know, every time you guys hang out, you can answer one or two of these cards.
It's the cycle, the psychology of it.
It's so fascinating, right like your brain.
If i were just to ask you point blank, like what are three things you appreciate about me?
You'd be like, why is she asking?
Like, is she fishing?
You know, or like whatever, right?
Your brain can go elsewhere.
Yeah, you're like, what is her intention?
And then you just kind of get lost instead of really being able to be present and focus on just the question of like.
What are three things you like about me, right?
But if it comes in a card form, you both of your brains are wired in a way where like, we're here, we're just playing a game.
That's really true.
We're just drawing a card.
Yeah um, there's nothing to lose and there's nothing to hide behind, because it's just, it's a card.
You know, it's a very harmless little card.
That's asking me a question.
That's actually how james and i started our relationship with those cards.
Yeah, we're like long distance.
I was in new york.
He's in san francisco.
One of my closest friends gave us a deck of cards like similar to we're not strangers, but it's called something else.
It's called like getting to know you.
We would go through a few cards every day and i think that's how we really got to know each other.
Um, i think we would have asked each other these, we would have asked each other these questions anyway, but it just we both were like oh, it's So, we're both very open people, but with a card, it's like your guards are so down and you're so less in your head about like where's this question coming from?
Are they sussing this out?
Are they sussing that out?
Yeah.
So I think that's really, it's a great, uh, it's a great thing to have.
A trick.
Yeah.
A tip, a trick.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Something easy to implement.
Yeah.
And I think to really create meaningful friendships and to build on trust.
Um The trust part, I think it just takes time.
I think you need to keep showing up in a specific way.
You just have to keep showing up.
And then over time, the trust kind of builds.
But at the same time, I think to help expedite that would be to really share what's in your heart, to get vulnerable.
Viv mentioned that you don't have to spill it all in the first meeting.
I tend to uh, but i will say oversharing okay, there's undersharing and you don't really get to know the person.
There's oversharing without boundaries.
And that you're also protecting yourself from whatever right, like fear of rejection, because you're like i leave myself bare, like you can judge me if you know whatever you know, like yeah, that's like still like enough it's.
You're avoidant on both sides.
So i think, like to not make, i think we can dedicate a whole episode about this in the future and, like we talked about in past episodes too.
But i like me like, so what's your story?
Like what, what makes you?
What makes your heart sing?
What um like, what do you get excited about?
I think also having a list of questions in your head that you love, that you are curious about other people also halt.
So one of my favorite questions, like if you could not fail and if you are going to be successful, like what would you do?
Like would you change anything with your life right?
Or I would ask like so like, tell me about like, what made you who you are today?
And I think because I went through something very, like, because I experienced loss, right?
Like if people ask me like, oh, why do you do YouTube?
Like you know what, are you like what?
If you ask a very general question, I'm able to oh, tie it back to.
So because I went through loss.
It made me who I am today.
And it's obviously not like a happy thing, but then I was able to like learn, to be grateful for it.
Blah blah, blah.
And I think, because I opened up in that way, it helps the other person have their guard down, similar to you, right.
Like, if you're like here are all my flaws, like here are all the things that like, i'm working on and these are the things i'm working through and i don't have the answers, you're essentially giving the other person like a, you're also giving them like a permission slip, or you're you're also handing them like a card, like getting to know you, card of you know i've, i'm opening up myself, My guards are down.
And then the other person on the receiving end, they'll be like, oh, wow.
Like, thank you so much for sharing.
And then, in these instances, I always feel like the other person I'm talking to.
They also were like you know.
Thank you so much for sharing.
Like, this is what I went through.
And here's like childhood stuff trauma blah blah, blah.
And the point of this I think to be clear is not to like.
You're not trauma dumping, you're not trying to get anything.
You're just sharing your story and your feelings, your vulnerabilities um, the things that make you into who you are today um, and like that, that's just it.
I'm not sharing this because like oh, i want you to feel a certain way, or like i want you to like, like me more, or anything like i think the intention for this is also important, because i think the other person can also like i think we're all very smart humans.
We're able to pick up on things.
So if you go into these conversations with, like the intention of like i'm gonna be vulnerable, so that you're gonna like me more, like that's also like yeah, going off on like another yeah, What does a friend do to help you feel like you can trust them?
Like what can someone do to help you feel like you want to deepen a friendship with them?
That's an interesting question.
I think there's an immediate and a long term.
I think if I meet someone and they are fully present and they are not checking their phone, they're not distracted by things around them, if they're just fully there and present with me, I think that initial feeling of safety I feel seen, I feel like I'm important to them.
That creates like the first layer of trust, right?
Cause it's like why would I open up to someone if they're just like, or like if they're looking off, if they're constantly checking their phones?
Um, i think also like values wise, like if you, if there's things that you care about and then they're open to it or they share similar values, i think that can, in the beginning, build trust.
But i think long-term trust is like a That's like, that's tougher.
Yeah.
So I think what I generally do is even on the internet, right?
I share a lot about the things that I go through.
But if you were to tell what I told you to someone else, like it wouldn't matter.
I'd say, yeah, she went through loss.
Or if I told someone else.
Yeah, if I told you my story and then you told someone else, I wouldn't really mind, because there are things I would tell other people anyway, right?
But I think... when you are sharing about like very, very personal stuff.
I can think of like when I was going through my darkest times and like I had an eating disorder.
I only told two people.
One was my cousin who I was super close to because I just spent so much of that semester and winter breaks and stuff just hanging out with him that I felt comfortable enough to be like yeah, this is what I'm going through.
And he was like, oh.
You know, like I'm here for you.
You don't need to feel that way.
Or like I'm just if you ever want to talk to someone like I'm here.
And he shared about his own struggles too, of like yeah, you know, you know like it's guys for guys is even harder.
Anyway, you know, so like he shared his side.
Yeah.
And then as I was coming out of it, like I eventually told my boyfriend at the time.
But then.
Yeah, it's hard, right?
There's these things that, like you put up walls to protect yourself and you have, like you project, a certain identity, or like you project how you want other people to view you.
So a lot of times you like, you're scared of shattering that, or you're scared of sharing something so personal to yourself because you're already so self-conscious about it that you're like, but what if they tell other people?
So I think like, when it comes to that very, very personal things, like things that you would rather keep secret, I think that's like another, that's another like it.
Just it takes a long time.
But whenever you do share that, like when I do with my cousin, when I do with my ex, they like so lovingly embraced that part of me and was, like you don't have to feel this way.
Um, i will love you regardless and yeah, but yeah, it takes time.
Yeah, opening up is hard already and, depending on what, it is right, like even in your example, it like it took you only told two people yeah, you know, and like you had so many close people to you, like friends and stuff, and it, it's like very circumstantial and so there's no pressure, i think, to like reveal all of these things.
But i think part of what was true for you and like maybe for this listener too, is that when you understand where you are more and there's a need to share it right like, you find that there is now a need to share it.
There's so much on the other side that you can gain right, there's so much connection on the other side and it's possible right, but it does take a lot of time and and that time is just constantly showing up for each other yeah, at least in the friendship, and then, over time, you will reach a point, or your friend will reach a point where they're like hey, i really, i'm like really struggling or like i'm really going through it.
Yeah, when you're trying to deepen a relationship or to build more trust, so okay, really quick, i feel like to to build trust and really there's there's two things right, there's one one is how to deepen a relationship.
Yeah, the other one is how to build trust in a relationship.
I think we can maybe focus on the, the deepening, because i think the building trust it's something.
It's like a deepening and something you can do.
Building trust is something that happens over time, it's like a byproduct.
Yes right, so by like, by deepening, by opening up, you will get to the trust and to be in a trusting relationship friendship, whatever you just have to be a trusting person.
Yes,
So I think that is just, yes.
The after effect.
Yes.
And then to also like little things, right?
If someone tells you something, if someone confides in you about something, keep it to yourself.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And this is more general.
This isn't specifically about Em.
Yeah.
But I think in general, like trust is a byproduct of things you do regularly.
Yes to the first part of deepening friendships I was thinking about.
I feel like I have a lot of friends.
Like I've always felt like I have a lot of good friends and... You do.
Yeah.
I think, when it comes to deepening it, what I've realized in the last few years is that not all of your friendships will deepen.
Not everyone will have the capacity to deepen.
Go there with you right, you might not even have the capacity to go there.
Sometimes it's a court like to your other, like yeah, you might think you go there, but your other friend could be like she doesn't go there with me exactly, yeah.
And i think at one point in my life i was expecting all of my friendships to be deep, like if we're not talking about our feelings, if we're not talking about our, our mentee bee struggles yeah, like then i don't want it right.
And that quickly went away because i think there are different friendships for different things.
I have friendships who, like one of my best friends, is my best friend and we don't have deep conversations, like we just have fun times, like she's the person that i laugh with the most, the person that i am most like, i can just show up and just be exactly myself and she receives me.
But we don't, we don't ever go there.
We don't have deep conversations at all.
We don't talk about things i would talk about on voice hugs, and that's okay.
And then i have friends, you know here, where We can go deep.
We can talk for hours and hours and hours.
But we don't laugh.
No, we do laugh.
I'm kidding.
I'm not as silly.
I think when I'm in these conversations, I'm always like...
More inspired, more like going to places.
Yeah, I'm not as silly in my friendship with Fro, though I've gotten sillier over time.
I think we've both gotten sillier.
Yeah.
So I think like one is like your expectations, right?
Like I feel lucky that, because I have so many to compare, it's not like I have one person that I'm like okay well, this is the one friend that I have to deepen this relationship with.
But I think, understanding that this person might not be the person that you have a deep friendship with, and that's okay.
With that being said, I think a lot of my friendships are based on the circumstances too.
Sorry, let's also change the word.
Instead of deepen, we can change it to more meaningful.
Because that's what Em said.
Because deepen is subjective.
Yeah, so more meaningful.
More meaningful.
Yes.
Yeah, I think friendships for me come in seasons.
Like right now, I think like we are in a huge season of friendship, right?
Like we see each other like all the time.
And then there was a period where we didn't see each other when you first gave birth, right?
And so it's not that like we weren't friends anymore, but I think it's understanding the different.
You don't have different expectations for different seasons, right?
Right now.
One of the people that I'm closest to and I have a very meaningful friendship with is my cousin who lives two miles away.
And I think the proximity has helped a lot with being able to call each other up, have spontaneous dinners or go over and bake at each other's houses, things like that.
That provides meaning for me and a need right now.
Do we always talk about all the things?
No, but we have fun with each other and so I think it's figuring out like, what fills your cup in your friendships right now, and also knowing that, like not all friendships they don't end, they don't have to end, like I feel like we've had this conversation before where I was like if we have a friendship breakup, it needs to be established.
We need closure.
We need to say like this friendship is over, you know, but now I don't feel that way.
Now I feel like, oh, right now we're a little bit distant, but we can come back to that.
Maybe even in 10 years, like we just never know.
And so keeping, like the doors open but pouring into the friendships that are meaningful for you right now in your life is important.
Yeah, and I think it is helpful to determine what meaningful to you means.
And maybe in this season it's just having friends period is very special to me because I'm in a new country and I need social interaction.
Yeah, like a community.
Yeah because, as humans, we all crave for as much as we distance ourselves and isolate ourselves.
At the end of the day, we need human connection, right.
So to make relationship meaningful in the season could just be you showing up every time you see your friends right and you choosing to be present and you choosing to be open in terms of just seeing where it goes right.
Like, I'm gonna show up my best, I'm gonna be as present as I can, I'm going to do my best to listen as well as I can, and I know that sounds like a lot, it is a lot yeah um but just by showing up i'm like open to seeing where this will go i think it's also helpful to calibrate ourselves to what is realistic and reasonable because if if i've been shy my whole life and you're like go out and meet people and like meet one new person a week literally have i just have you know like what are you saying huh wait what were you saying if you were no like i'm just putting our ourselves in m's shoes okay if i've been shy my whole life shy yes okay i didn't hear shy i heard going out my whole life i was like wait what if i've been shy my whole life yes like if we if we're like go out you know put yourself out there oh yeah no no that's not gonna work it's not gonna work right so it's like with the friends that you currently have and if you're ever invited out to meet the friends of friends and friends of friends and friends i think to show up as yourself as best as you can to have your ears perk up um to just you know ask questions that you're genuinely interested about knowing i think that can go a long way that just made me think um something that i appreciate and i i used to do a lot more too is after you hang out with a friend you send them a text and let them know like how great that was like it was so great to see you like i'm so happy that we you introduced me to your friends like it meant a lot and sometimes um maybe because we i i grew up with what is it sm sms wait no what is it oh my god i sound like an old person again okay because i was really shy too like growing up but oh my god i was like such a talker on aim like You have a different personality when you text or when you like... Your little away messages, your little colorful fonts.
Yeah, and so I think you can build friendships via text first too, if you feel shy and share your feelings written out.
And clearly, Em has the ability to share feelings written out.
And so yeah, I've found that when friends text me something afterwards of like hanging out, so nice, i want to do it again.
I'm very receptive to that and i i'm like okay, so that was fun for this person.
Yeah, i think one interesting exercise that you can do and this can be done for anything is just to be like i would like what makes me feel the best when i Like when my friend does this or when someone does this to me, it makes me feel amazing, right.
And they can think about friendships like oh, you know, like when my friend reaches out and sends me like I'm thinking of you text, it makes me feel very appreciated or loved, right.
When my friend invites me out and introduces me to friends, it shows me that my friend obviously cares for me and wants me to meet more people.
I really love it when my friend follows up and sends me texts.
And you can think of all these touch points throughout your friendships that you feel great.
And then you can start flipping that and like doing it yourself, right?
Of like reaching out to just say like thinking of you or I saw this.
Okay, I think this is actually a great way to like send thinking of you text without like, I don't know, making it weird, i don't know.
Just like, if you see something that you know your friend likes, just send them a photo right, oh my god, like i saw this and i thought of you, ha ha ha.
Or like, oh my god, wouldn't it be so funny if blah blah, blah right, that's like one way.
But then yeah, i think this is like an interesting exercise to think through.
Like my perfect friendship, or like my perfect friend does this for me, and then how can you start slowly doing this for people in your life too?
I like that.
I'm trying to think what is my perfect friend?
What are things i appreciate about?
Like what friends do for me?
Yeah yeah, go on.
I do love the random texts.
Yeah, like, how are you?
Thinking of you.
This reminded me of you.
I think a friend that is a good listener is probably number one for me.
Yeah, friends that talk too much.
We literally just had a conversation about this before, like separately, but i'm like, when i'm around people who talk about themselves too much, it's that's draining.
It's draining yeah, and it it.
The conversation needs to feel balanced right, like unless i'm talking about myself in that same capacity.
Like it needs to feel balanced yeah, so Yeah.
Whether that is you need to open up more or you need to like reel yourself back in.
I think one thing that viv brought up that i've always very much appreciated about her is she reminds me of conversations we've had in the past, because you you she you, you ask really good questions like why do you do this, like what is important to you, what is your life purpose?
And then when i'm going through tough times, she'll be like Remember, you said that.
Yeah, remember you told me your North Star was this and you're doing a great job.
And I'm like, oh my gosh, I don't even remember.
Yeah, I think my questions aren't like thought out.
I think it's like, as you shared in the beginning, I'm genuinely curious.
Like, why do you want to do that?
And I'll like, listen.
Yeah, I guess that's why I want the same back.
Mm-hmm.
So to be interesting, you have to be interested.
That's a saying.
Yeah, just interested, like genuinely interested in the wellbeing of your friend.
And I think that is genuinely how you make a relationship more meaningful, right?
Oh, earlier I was saying you can go through what you appreciate about friends and start doing that more, and then you can also get clear with yourself on what a meaningful relationship or friendship looks like.
Because I think it can be subjective and we can see friendships out there or we can compare every friendship to a friendship we used to have in the past.
So it's important to get clear on what you care now about friendships.
Yeah, and what it feels like in that friendship.
To speak on the comparison point growing up and I'm still friends with these friends but I had, like it was four of us, four girlfriends in high school.
And we were like totally like a little clique, you know?
And I had multiple people after high school come up to me like I don't know, randomly and say like oh, I'm really jealous that you have a clique right, like a friendship like that.
And i've thought about this in my 20s too, where i think, as i got older, my friendships all became more like one-on-one.
I have really good like one-on-one friendships and i don't have a big group where, like you, go on a huge trip together, like you celebrate, like friends miss together.
You know, like i don't do that as much as i wanted to back when i was in my early 20s, and that was something that i had to realize, that you need to figure out what feels the best to you, because sometimes when you look at big groups and this is speaking from, like when i was in high school yes, we were in a clique, but we had problems in the clique like you never know what the drama is inside the clique um um granted, it just so happened that all four of us grew up closer, so i don't know, you could be jealous of us now, i guess, but we're still friends yeah, we're still friends and we all love each other so much.
Um, but what i'm sharing is that, like you don't know what happened behind closed doors yeah, And so not to really Don't compare your friendship to other people.
Just think about what you need and what you value as Roshan.
Just a quick thing about your friend group.
So during your, during your wedding dinner um, james brought this up.
I thought it was hilarious.
He sat next to one of your.
He sat next to, i think, your girl click, and then she you know, one of the girls was like, oh my god, like how do you know viv?
And obviously i was like, oh yeah, through row.
And then she was like what about you?
And she's like we've known viv since, like really young yeah, and then james goes.
I He told me he's like oh, that's an interesting way.
I was just asking her, but she said we.
It's all of us.
Yeah, it's very sweet.
But yeah, I think the social media of it all, the comparison, the seeing what other people are doing, how they're friendshiping and how their friendships friendships are, and also to be to like double down on what you just said big friend groups families, anything like there's drama, always there's drama, always there's always like, and they might not even like each other No, and that's it.
Like I've met people who are in cliques and they like, I'm not in the clique, right?
So you know like sometimes, when you have friends, you feel comfortable talking to another friend about that friend.
And like they'll tell me all the crap about their friend group and but then when you look on like social media, they're all like bffs and like posing and having the best time with each other and so um, and it could just be a moment in time right, like when they're feeling something, but you just don't want to, just don't compare, just don't yeah, don't do it yeah, don't know, don't know, don't know their circumstances, don't know if they're really friends.
Yeah yeah, you just don't know, you don't know.
Yeah yeah um, i feel like i love talking about friends and i think we can do so many more episodes about that, because this one was really just like how do you even just enter a friendship, how do you start getting close?
But then there's also like the seasons of friendships, like friendship breakups, which i know we've talked about before, but It's different.
There's so much more.
Yeah.
So if you have any questions, please let us know.
I'd love to talk more about friends.
I think friends is a really special relationship that you have to pour time and energy in.
And I'm also curious with you, like after a year of sort of taking a backseat, how you've, how you've felt and like how you want to approach it, like in the future too, right.
Like does becoming a mom change your friendships?
Like, is it harder to connect with people who aren't moms?
And again, like, I think this can be a whole other episode, right?
Same thing with when you're friends with all single people and then now they start marrying off, and how do your friendships change then?
Yeah, so let us know.
Yeah, lots more to come, okay.
So if you have any questions, if you want to say hi, it's been so nice to hear from everyone since we've launched season three and we want to hear more from you.
So again, our email is hello.
At voice hugs podcastcom you can shoot us a dm.
At voice hugs podcast you can Say hi.
And you can also leave us a voicemail.
It could be about friendships, about anything.
Anything.
Anything you want.
Yes.
Yes.
Okay.
Sending you all the biggest voice hugs in the whole entire world.
Yay!
Voice hugs!
We started doing this heart thing at the end of every episode.
I know, I love it.
I love it.
