The problems that you have before getting married are still going to be the problems that you carry on into marriage.
Baby changes a lot of things.
We're going to talk about baby changes a lot of things.
Hot honey.
Hot.
Hot with the child.
Spicy.
In a household, there is a balance of yin and yang.
There is feminine energy and masculine energy.
And that has to exist.
The balance has to exist.
Learn from our mistakes and do not put men in the center of your world.
We're going to dive deep about marriage and spill the beans.
Welcome to Voice Hugs, the podcast on becoming your best self and embracing all seasons of life with open arms.
This is your host, Viv and Ro.
Hello, everyone.
Hello.
Hello.
Happy February.
I had a little encounter this week that I was waiting to share with you.
Okay, we're going off script.
So beginning in the end.
Yeah.
So I met a listener in person and it was the sweetest thing.
I was coming home from work.
I had errands to run.
I need to return something at the mall.
So I took Charlie with me, went into the store.
I look like a bum.
You always look good now.
I returned it.
I walked out.
And as I was walking out, the associate there was like, wait, are you the host of Voice Hug?
Something like that.
And I turned around and I like freaked out.
I was like, yes, I am.
I was like, can I take a photo with you?
And she was like, can I take a photo with you?
But yeah, it was so sweet.
Yeah, I wanted to share that.
Oh, that's so sweet.
We love IRL encounters.
Do you get stopped often?
Well okay, first off, you don't go out often right yeah, but yeah, like i'm curious, do you get stopped often not as often as one would think, it's like once every few months.
Also, the mall yeah often yeah, like checking out.
They're like are you beauty within or are you road?
Are you boys like i'm like yeah, that's cute.
Yeah, I've only been stopped, I think, like twice, and both times I've made this mistake of okay, when you meet a voice hugs listener, there's this assumption that they're your friend.
Cause I feel like it's a specific type of personality that listens to voice hugs.
So I immediately feel like this is a safe person and I just tell them where I live.
Like the first person I met, I was like, oh yeah, I live at this apartment right here.
And then with this listener, because I was at like, my local mall, I was like oh my gosh, do you live around here?
And then I just like told her, you know, like what city I live in and stuff, which is fine.
But I was like, yeah, I need to not do that.
I think for the most part, everyone listening right now, you're so safe and you're so harmless.
Yeah.
But yeah, it just takes one weird encounter, one interaction.
Yeah.
Anyways.
Yeah.
Shout out to that person that I met at the mall.
I know her name, but I don't know if she wants her name to be said, so I won't say it.
Yeah.
Oh, how sweet.
Yes.
Right before recording, we're like, do you want to start?
Do you want me to start?
And she's like, I'll start.
I'm like, okay, girl, go ahead.
You have something up your sleeve.
Wow.
Okay, so.
First episode of February.
Yes.
What are we going to be talking about today?
Today is a continuation of last episode where we really we got a little.
We got very honest about weddings, our thoughts on weddings, how ours were unconventional.
Also, we talked about, like the very beginning.
We talked about, like with the feelings jar, what our current pulse was on our relationship slash marriage is, like Viv has said, It was pizza flavor.
Pizza flavor, yes.
And I had said mine's like a fancy dine-in pizza where you like cut it with a fork and knife.
Yes, so more of like vibes.
Honeymoon phase, kind of romantic vibes, yeah.
And then I said mine was like hot honey a little bit spicy but a little bit sweet, a little bit of everything.
And so last episode we didn't get around to actually talking about the marriage, because we spent the whole episode talking about the wedding, which was so much fun.
And so in this episode, we're going to dive deep about marriage and spill the beans.
Yeah.
So I have only been married for one month.
I've only been married once, just one time um, and it's been great yeah um, yeah.
So i think it'll be fun to also hear like the differences a little bit too.
I'm like curious you being over a year in yeah hot honey hot, hot with the child spicy yeah, and hearing a little bit more about that Yeah,
It's, it's a lot.
There's a lot to share.
I think what will be more interesting would be to hear your journey, at least from being not married to married, because it was so recent.
Yeah.
Like, is there anything that changed?
Do you feel different?
Does anything like everything's shinier?
Are things not?
Is this still fancy honeymooning?
Is it?
Has it changed when you get married?
At least this was my experience.
There were two questions that were asked almost every time I ran into someone or saw someone.
The first question is do you feel different?
And then the second question is, when are you having kids?
It's like immediate.
But going...
To the first question, do you feel different?
I do.
I do feel like getting married, there was a difference from the day of the vows and the celebration.
In season two, I was talking about how I felt like... And this was before I was engaged.
I felt like getting married was simply signing papers and didn't have to be that big of a deal.
I'm already in a committed relationship.
I'm a committed person.
We're already treating each other like husband and wife, but it actually was not even close to what it feels like once you get married.
There's something about maybe it's the vows where you say it to someone, you're thinking about it And it's really crazy, right.
Cause vows are just words.
Like it's a promise.
It's literally just words that you're saying out loud to someone.
And if you have your loved ones, they're like having parents.
They're writing the vows and saying the vows.
And then yeah it, I don't know like the feeling of both of us felt this way, like me and Rory felt like when we got married we were immediately closer.
Like the bond was different and it felt like, for the first time in my life, this is your chosen family.
This is your new family.
I have his back in a way that I did not as his girlfriend or fiance.
Yeah, I think for me at least, the process of getting married too was a journey of itself.
And so getting to the point where we finally decided that there is a vulnerability piece to opening up to someone else and saying like oh, I'm going to share this life with you and I'm going to start a family with you and build a home with you.
So yeah, I do feel different.
But again, it's only been... two months.
Yeah.
So it's like fresh.
I don't feel like we're in a honeymoon phase, but I do think there is like this level of commitment and love.
And I don't know, maybe it's something from like I don't know if you felt this way with James, but especially from Rory, I feel like he feels like he's responsible for me in some way, like not in a bad way, but like Like I'm your protector.
Yeah.
I'm your provider.
Yeah.
Like he, he's very willing, more willing to like do even more for me.
And so that's been really nice.
Yeah.
I just realized we completely, we got so into it.
We didn't even do a feelings jar.
We can still do a feelings jar.
Or do you want to do at the end?
Maybe save it for the next one.
Oh, oh, oh, three.
Okay.
We're going to do the feelings jar really quick.
Yes.
About our week.
Well, my week was sort of seeing the listener.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So let's just come up with something on the fly.
How you feel right now.
Okay.
About your significant other.
Oh, right now.
Like specifically about your significant other.
Yeah, okay.
Okay, okay, okay.
Oh my, oh, oh, oh.
This one is so vif-coded.
What is it?
2026 Coachella lineup artist.
Oh my god.
Wait, 2026 lineup?
Oh, this year.
Wow.
I need to pull this up.
I mean, I already have something in mind, but I don't think I can say it for you.
I know what you're thinking.
2026 Coachella lineup.
All I know is The Beeb.
There's Cat's Eye.
There's Sabrina Carpenter.
I'll just do Foster the People.
Oh.
Just cute, chill vibes.
One of my best memories from Coachella was 2014, just about to graduate.
I think i saw you there.
Yes, my friends and i were not sober on many levels and foster the people came on.
I think the sun had just set, which is like the mo, like the most beautiful time, because like the transition from light to dark, and then i don't think there was a lot of people at foster the people, but they're at the main stage and we literally were just running through the field as like they were playing and foster the people.
I think they're very it's like whimsical, a little like folky, like very indie, and it's just like very like free, expansive.
That's how you feel about your relationship right now.
Yeah, love it.
Yeah, We just reflected on 2026, or like 2025 and like planned for 2026.
So we had like a very in-depth like the most in-depth debrief of our relationship that we've had since baby.
Baby changes a lot of things.
We're going to talk about baby changes a lot of things.
So yeah.
Expansion.
Yes.
I love it.
Freeing.
Very supportive, supported.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I was trying to find a very loving and slow artist, but I don't really recognize a lot of these.
It's because we're middle-aged.
It's because we're middle-aged.
Um, the, yeah, like I wanted to say maybe, I don't even know how to pronounce her name.
LaVey?
It's not Laffy.
Laffy.
Anyways.
She sings like okay, you know what, i'm not gonna go with this lineup and i'm gonna pick another lineup.
Okay, so 2024.
I think i saw olivia dean there.
Yeah, she was amazing, i was like right in the front yeah, but there are a lot of songs that are like about love and i don't know.
So this week rory made soup for me.
I wasn't feeling well and He also made extra soup for like, my best friend.
So like I just brought some over for Rowena.
And then yeah, that's the kind of it's just so loving, you know, like made with love and just cares about me and my friends.
And so, yeah, that's like the most immediate feeling I feel.
Back to my identity as a two month married person.
Okay, this is actually something that I kind of want to talk about.
You know how some people, their whole identity is like their relationship?
Yeah.
Their whole identity is their wedding, their marriage, their like relationship status and stuff.
Oh, she has thoughts.
Listen to the other episode.
The one right before this.
The very ending of it.
I don't feel like I'm that kind of person.
So yes, I think like my identity is slowly shifting right now.
I am a newly married person, but I don't think that I will become someone who like overly identifies with being a wife in the traditional aspects of what like a wife is.
So maybe i will identify with being someone's partner.
I don't know.
That was just one thought that crossed my mind recently.
And it's fine if you overly identify with being a wife yeah, in the sense that you're catering to your husband or like.
Maybe what I'm thinking is like the traditional role of a wife and like more of the nurturing, caretaker sort of aspect.
In some ways, I actually feel like Rory is more like that like that's not my strength and so I think that's probably why I feel that way like I still feel like I'm gonna be an independent person and we are working together to do whatever you know we do in life but yeah I don't think I'm like oh my gosh I'm a wifey and like I love being a wifey I don't really like care yeah that's interesting because I think I'm a wifey you are a wifey this is fascinating you know what's funny because i always thought i would be a wifey yeah like i always always thought that i would you would be a mother like a mother i want to be i that's like an identity that's like in the future you know but yeah wifey was i used to think i wanted to be a wifey and then this is what happened i i think in my previous relationships i over identified with those relationships they became like i'm your girlfriend yeah like this is like my everything this is my world you know and then i didn't like that yeah Yeah.
So in the beginning of my relationship with Rory, we both love music.
And when you go to Coachella, there's so many artists that you can see at the same time.
We were not the type to go to one set because one person wanted to see it and then the other person might miss the set that they wanted.
So if we had two artists going on at the same time, we would totally disperse and go check out the artists that we want to see and then come back together, yeah.
And so there was one time I did that and I had met up with my cousin who we went to go see a set, and they were like oh, where's Rory?
I was like oh, he's going to check out you know, the other artist and she thought it was so weird.
She talked to my other cousin about it and was like, that's so weird, like I would never like yeah, I would never do that.
And for me I'm like but why like, we pay so much money and It's just how you approach Coachella.
It's how you see these things.
I think if we go now, I probably don't have the energy to go by myself.
So we'd probably like go together.
But back then, when you really want to see an artist, like I'm not going to not see my artist because of him yeah, and and i wouldn't want him to either to miss because of you yeah interesting, okay.
So one little tangent yeah, i think the most, like one of my favorite things to do at a music festival or concert rave, whatever you want to call it is to walk around by myself.
I think it's like.
It's like i'm not aimlessly walking around by myself, it's like sometimes i'll like go find different groups of friends.
Or if like, if someone is lost because i'm i'm usually usually on taking care of my friends um, i'll like go find people.
But i think it's so interesting to like walk around by yourself to just like see what is happening, see what other people are doing Yeah,
Anyway, it's interesting you say that because I don't know what I was expecting, but I thought you would be the type to.
I don't know why.
I just said that.
No, I thought you would be the type to just go with your partner.
Oh, no.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think now, right now, I would just do... I literally do everything with James.
Yeah.
I think maybe like I was so independent.
I didn't think that I would be anything.
I didn't think about what my life would be as a wife.
But then because like I think of the move and then we moved in together.
I like finally was able to like open up and lean on someone.
I think I'm like leaning on him too much.
No.
I think it's life circumstances changes, right?
And like you're in different situations.
But yes, you are in a season where you're definitely not, as like quote, doing things all by yourself the way that you did before.
And another interesting observation is the fact that you guys are able to do that early on in your relationship I think goes to show how secure the relationship was.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, because I'm thinking like when I went to Coachella, like if my ex was like I'm going to go off, I'm like why?
Like OK go, you don't love me, i'm gonna be a cool girlfriend and like, let you do whatever you want to do.
But i'm like yeah okay, but then it's like the insecurity of like, but like, why and why don't you want to spend time with me?
And you know it's more like that.
Yeah, it has to be like established, like we establish it together, like before we even get to coachella, we're like okay, we want to see these people, this is who we're going to see together, and then we always end the night together, you know Okay, independent.
So with the wife, you don't identify with that as much?
Yeah.
But I do like care so much about my relationship.
And I just... Maybe I just see it more as like a partnership than like husband and wife.
But then I love calling him my husband.
So I don't know.
I think maybe, at least in terms of like this specific topic of like identifying as a wife, maybe it's because you guys have been together for so long that you don't think.
Not that you don't think, but it's like things don't need to change.
Like things are fine the way they are.
They don't necessarily need change.
So maybe it's like from that perspective.
Yes, and that's like a great point.
I think... So background, my parents are divorced, right?
I have a very...
I've thought about marriage my entire life.
Not about getting married, but about what a marriage is.
Are there even benefits to being married?
I've thought about the idea of a partnership for so long.
As I was growing up and as I was in different relationships, I think by the time that I got into my current relationship I knew that the problems that you have before getting married are still going to be the problems that you carry on into marriage.
And you see it.
I've had friends who got married, divorced in a year, but the problems already existed.
You shouldn't change your expectations for your partner or how the relationship feels, because you're getting married and so, knowing that, i already knew what it felt like to be in this relationship.
And there is a change in that there's like a stronger connection and a different type of commitment, but more or less like the relationship feels the same.
Yeah, so with you, wifey.
It's funny because I think about you.
I never like growing up was like Rose going to be wifey.
Not that you're like wifey, but you know what I mean?
And you're also a mom.
So it's different right now in this season.
Yeah.
No, but even when I was just wifey, I was very much like it's I'm holding up two fingers.
They're they're meeting together in the center.
I'm like this.
I'm just like leaning on James a beautiful thing though yeah, to be able to do that.
Yeah, i think you found someone that you really feel like you can yeah.
And then in our debrief i was like am i doing it a little too much?
And then he's like yeah, maybe a little bit.
I love you and i love like being able to support you, but like you should also, you know, have the things you want to do too, and i'm like okay great noted, being in a healthy relationship, you can like there will be seasons where one person may lean on the other more and if you're with a partner who's there to support you, like they won't mind right, but then they also will not just idly, they will also tell you if they think you need to do something or another right, like for my birthday.
He's like you need to see your friends.
Do I even talk about my birthday?
I don't think we did.
Okay, so for my birthday, for my last birthday, which was just a few months ago, James planned a meal for every single day of the weekend with a friend.
And they're all surprises.
Like, I didn't know who it was going to be.
But he was just like, you need to...
I think it's his way of being like, girl, you need your girlfriend.
You need to go out.
I like asked him if it was that.
He's like no, I just think like it'll be good for you to like I was like no, I think his way of being like you gotta, you gotta go out.
But it was very sweet, obviously, because if I'm going out, then he's taking care of baby.
But then there's like this friction, because I was like what I really wanted in my core was to like sit down and like reflect and plan, because I felt like having done that all year and i usually do that around my birthday.
So anyway, that's like we can get back to the friction later, but there was just like like i love him and i'm so grateful for him and he does all these things for me.
The reason why i brought this up wasn't to complain.
The reason why i brought this up was because if you're with the good partner, they will know what you need before you even know it.
So even though like, yes, I can get fixated on like, oh, I wish I had time to do these things.
What I genuinely needed was actually time with my besties.
Anyway, there's so many things you said that I wanted to like touch back on.
I think one really interesting thing is what we choose to create our worlds around, or what we choose as like the center of our worlds.
And i think when we're in our 20s, it's very easy to make men or like guys like the center of our world.
Yeah yeah, it's like you really want to find someone.
Yeah, especially in college.
Yeah, you're like i did the grades thing, i got into the college thing like now let's like have fun, let's meet, like my potential husband or whatever right, so it's very easy.
I like don't know where this term came from, so i'm just saying it loosely, but like i heard it, i was like oh, it makes a lot of sense, we centralize men in our lives.
But then i think like, as we get older, it's about decentralizing men in our lives and what that basically means is like if you had plans with your girlfriend, and if a guy calls or like texting, be like hey, let's hang out.
If you you've been waiting for his text, you don't hang out with the guy, you don't drop the guy, you still continue with your plans, right?
Or um, like if you have something planned for yourself and this guy hits you up, that like you know you, you do like, or maybe he is the guy, right.
Like your boyfriend, whatever.
You don't drop everything just to kind of like be available to him at all times.
And in a nutshell, like you don't put this guy on a pedestal and just drop everything and just be with him.
And I think I did that in my twenties, like in my early twenties, where it was always like waiting around, like you know, like when you see me.
I think because of that it made me like not want to think about men at all.
In my mid to late 20s, the extremes yeah very, very on on on uh brand yes, on brand for me, i think.
Now, now that we're married, i think like where i was going is it's easy to put like your kid in like front and center.
But then i think like the way that i feel is best to approach the situation is you should always be the center of your world and then you will have like main characters, like your husband, your best friends, your parents, your blah blah, your children and but then, at the core of that, like you need to be you and you need to choose you um, so that you can show up the best for like everyone else.
Because i think if you like choose the husband or if you choose the kid and you make them the center, and then you know they're not making you their number one choice or you just give so much to them that you feel you feel so worn thin.
There could be like resentment or like other things that come up.
So anyway, that was a very long window of just being like do not learn from our mistakes and do not put men in the center of your world.
Yeah, i think, for as much as i lean on james, like he isn't the center of my world i think we're both very conscious of that, where we have things that we want to do and lives that we want to live and careers and things that excite us.
It just has been best tackled side by side.
And I think that's been really beautiful.
But yes, relationship, 2025.
Wow.
Wow.
2025.
It was hard.
Okay, the hot honey.
Yeah.
What was spicy about it?
Oh my God, it was like 90% spicy, if I'm being honest.
It was spicy.
To preface, and I think to just...
Like we- I already feel like we are very communicative.
I feel like you guys are too.
We're like super honest and open and we'll talk about things, right?
But I think it's as you said earlier whatever problems you had before getting married is still gonna be there.
Similarly with like having a kid.
Whatever problems you have before for the kid it's already there.
But I think when you have a kid and maybe like when you get married, like for people, like these unions or these, like big milestones can bring up different things.
But I think, when it comes to having a kid, it's like you don't have time, you're exhausted, your time is not yours.
Your stress levels are high.
You're so stressed and you're so short tempered with yourself.
You're so like unloving or you just you don't feel love.
You don't feel seen.
It's just a recipe for disaster.
So because of that, it makes sense that this year was hard.
And I think the first year of having a kid for any marriage is really hard.
And I think that's.
I don't know the actual numbers, but i think like the divorce rate is really high within the first year just because of like all the changes and or maybe you're just so confronted with the issues that were already there.
But i will say one thing was one of our friends was like the first year of marriage i did not love my husband, I love this friend.
She's so honest and so direct and so funny and hilarious.
She's like, yeah, I did not love my husband for a year.
So don't make any big decisions.
Don't think about divorce.
Don't think about anything.
It will get better.
I promise.
But the first year I did not love my husband.
So I was like, okay, the expectations on the floor.
It's so low.
Yeah.
Right.
So like, okay, like it could be that bad.
Yeah.
It's not that bad hard yeah yeah, because usually without like before having a kid, if someone doesn't feel loved or if there's something wrong, it's easier to be like hey, I feel like something's off.
Like, let's talk about it.
Right.
But now that you have another being that you're taking care of and both parents are exhausted, it's a lot easier to just be like for the sake of peace tonight, let's just go out to dinner, talk like nothing's wrong and just wait for another day.
And it's easy for it to be a day to two days to a week to two weeks.
And they usually buy two weeks.
It's when it like you know, it's like snapping happens or a blow up yes, the volcano erupts and it just becomes this cycle of well, this is any relationship.
There's rupture and repair.
Rupture and repair right.
With kids it's like a huge thing that i'm learning of you can't be the perfect parent.
You're never going to be the perfect parent and to be the perfect parent, you're setting yourself up for failure and, like you also, as a kid, don't want to grow up with a perfect parent, because you see that you're like i need to aspire to that.
So rupture, which is like when things go wrong, or like when you lose it or when you say something you'd regret, very normal right, and then repair is like hey, mommy's so sorry, or like even a relationship right, it's like hey, i'm so sorry.
I said that maybe i meant it in the moment, but like that wasn't nice and like let's talk about it.
So I think within a relationship, it's normal to have these cycles of rupture and repair, which is something that I think both me and James weren't used to like.
I rupture and repair with my mom all the time.
I think I'm very used to that.
But I think, when it comes to relationships, we all have this like idealized version of like the perfect relationship has no.
Like you never fight, you're always like on the same page yeah, everything's so good.
Yeah, communicate so well yes, and you can have disagreements, but then it's just like temporary but no, like the cycle of rupture and repair is very real and it's very normal to have.
And what we learned about ourselves and like just with, like what we read and what we see, and like the parenting relationship advice, things that we consume, the things you fight about.
It's the same three things you've always fought about, Just in like a different, like one is wearing, like they're like wearing glasses, or like one's wearing a hat.
Right.
Or like trying to disguise like it's the same things.
So then if you are able to identify what those few things are and then come up with.
Kind of like, you're not gonna fix it, right?
Because I don't think it's.
One example just to like be a little bit more specific is I have a much different version of tidiness than James.
When I feel chaotic inside and I see that the space is a mess, I like lose my mind, right.
So then to me, like it's very important that, like you pick up your socks and then you put things back where they belong, or like if you read a bunch of books with the baby and then like you play with all the toys, i'm very grateful.
But like, please just consolidate or, like you know, put it in piles so that it's not just lit, the whole floor is not littered with everything.
And i think it's like, through conversations and through these ruptures and repairs, this one's like an easier fix, because it's just like okay, i'll just do it right, like i know this is important for my wife, so i'll do it.
But then it took many iterations to kind of get to where we need to be.
Like you can close the loop on some of these things that like trigger you.
But then I think there's like deeper things within all of us that we need to work through.
So it's so funny.
James, listen to our episode 77, I believe.
The second one.
Yeah, the second one of the season.
Yes.
And he was like, I listen to voice hugs.
And you said rage three times.
I feel rage towards my husband.
Do you want to do you want to explain a little more?
So I think for me, it's like this anger.
Yeah.
I don't even know what it's, what it comes from, but like it just.
There's this, like it's not just anger, but it's like this bubbling stress.
If like things aren't, I was like, do I have OCD?
Like, do things need to be a certain way for me to like feel okay.
But then it's like, if I made food for baby, right.
And then he's like, man, just like throwing it on the floor.
A part of me just like, I'm like, just eat your food.
I spent so much time making it for you.
But then the logical, like that's like the emotional part.
I don't know what brain anyway, but I'm like, but he's a baby.
He's so young.
Like, it's fine.
That's what I'm working on.
That's like my example of there's these deeper rooted things in all of us that we need to work on.
Like James is his own thing that he needs to work on.
I have my own thing that I need to work on.
And then another fun thing, we both have aura rings now.
And then we, as a me and Viv, we both have aura rings now.
And girl, my stress level is like four to nine hours every day.
Four to nine hours.
Four to nine hours.
That is not... From doing what?
From taking care of a kid?
Yes, it's stressful.
It is stressful, but I need to chill.
I need to calm down.
So that is like what I'm working on, right?
And like if I'm like more calm and grounded and at peace and like these things don't affect me, then like I'll be so much nicer to my husband, you know, like that.
Anyway.
Okay, firstly, this is really refreshing for me to hear.
Because as your friend of over however many years, too long, we're middle-aged now.
Decade.
Yeah.
I think also because you were so solo for so long.
Your environment was so not controlled but kind of controlled.
So controlled.
You know?
And so even hearing you use the word rage makes me giggle a little bit inside.
I'm like, well, it's so silly.
Yeah.
She's raging.
I'm so happy for her.
She's feeling her feelings.
Yeah, because I truly feel like that is what it is for you.
Like your environment is totally way more out of your control now with a newborn not a newborn but, like you know, a baby.
And so that's why all these feelings are coming up.
Wait, so how did you answer James when he said, Rage?
Rage?
I was like, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.
No, I literally was like, oh my god, I said that?
No way!
I didn't mean it.
No, but genuinely, I was like, oh, I said that?
Ha ha ha.
And he was like, not once, not twice, three times in one sentence.
And I was like, Oh, did I?
That's funny.
I, yeah, I don't know.
Like obviously, in in this conversation, i want to be very supportive of you, but at the same time, i'm like girl, you are so human and i'm so glad, like i'm so glad that you're normal and you're feeling stressed.
You know, being a new mom and you're lashing out at your partner because he's not putting the books away.
You know, like that reassures me in some way yeah yeah, and i hope that does for you too, you know.
Oh, okay.
There's this whole other thing that I want to talk about that you just brought up.
I think a lot of women probably can relate or a lot of girls.
It's like this pursuit of perfection.
I think we've both tried working on this forever and we read books on the gifts of imperfection and why it's important to not be perfect and all of these things.
But I think when again, your face is pushed against the wall and then you're faced with this new challenge, this new being, this new life-altering thing thing, you try to approach it the way you've always approached it and i think it's very easy to want to seek perfection from parenting.
It could also be to seek perfection and being the perfect partner, or to see perfection and being the perfect wife right, first of all, like none of that exists and it's so hard and you're just going to make your life so hard.
I'm saying this to myself.
I'm as much as i'm saying this to like people who are listening, i think like a part of me, i don't know before i get to like me and my perfection journey.
Maybe we can save that for like a whole another episode, but something that you brought up earlier, where it was like the traditional role of what it means to be a wife.
I was talking to a friend, the same friend, and we both realized it's like you grow up in the States, right?
You go, you get educated in the States, and there's this notion and this ideal of what a woman should be.
It could be like feminism, like woman liberation, you know all of these things where, like we can go to school now and then we can get jobs, and like we can be career oriented and we can do all of these things, which is true.
I think we can do all of these things, which is amazing.
But you grow up and you're like, oh, like this is what it means to be like a perfect mom.
You can work while also being a mom, and you can do all of these things and like everything's going to be fine.
You just have to do it.
So we grow up with this idea that, like you can have it all which we'll get into later and that the traditional roles don't really matter anymore of like what a man does you know?
Like if you, if we go all the way back to like hunter gathering, right of the male goes down and hunts and, like you know, takes care of the family in like the external domain.
And then the women stay home with the at the in the village, with like all the elders and with all the other moms and like they raise their kids together in like a very communal sense.
But essentially the woman is in charge and they fully, like dominate the internal world, which is like the home.
And so if we bring that to like the modern day, like age scenario, that the guy would be out working, providing for the family, the mom would be taking care of the kids at home.
So this notion has been like, we're like, we don't need to do that anymore.
But the interesting thing that we both found when I was talking to this girlfriend was she was talking about how she read all the books.
She tried sleep training her kid for two years.
It was terrible.
It was hard.
She snapped at her kid so many times.
And then one day she was just like, you know what?
What if I just sleep with you?
Like, hey, can I, like, is it okay if mommy sleeps on the floor right next to you?
And her daughter's like, yeah, like, of course you totally can.
And then she starts co-sleeping with her kid.
And then it helped them deepen their relationship so much because of these like conversations at night.
Cause her daughter would just be like, oh.
Like, where was I when you were a kid?
It's so sweet, right?
Like the things that kids ask.
And then I bring up co-sleeping because, like in the mainstream or whatever, if you're on social media, co-sleeping is horrible and if, if you do it, you hit your kids and you want them to die because of like blah blah, blah.
So then there's these things that you should and shouldn't do according to who, according to i don't know, like culture or like the media.
And so she tried being the perfect parent in this way, while kind of drifting further and further away from her instincts and from her gut and from like, what she wants to do.
But then, now that she's slowly starting to come back to trusting herself and just doing things that she wants to do in terms of how to parent, it made her realize that the goal isn't to be the perfect parent.
The goal is rupture and repair, and through that you can be a better parent.
We also, while we're talking, realize that you grow up being like I need to provide for myself because I can right.
I can like achieve so much my career because i can and i can still do that with the kid.
But then there comes a point where i think i realized, she realized, and i'm sure, like maybe some of you guys listening will also realize too that what i genuinely want to do in my being is just to nurture And I think a mother's role biologically hormonally, like we are programmed to nurture, right.
For as loving as her husband is, for as loving as my husband is.
We both are realizing that, like there's a cap to how much they can nurture the way that we can right.
Because like I can just look at our baby and he's like, and I'm like, oh, he wants more.
And James is like, more what?
And like, how do you, how do you know?
Just I was like oh, I don't you just spend enough time with your kid and you just know you can kind of like read their mind.
And so, while we were just very openly sharing with each other, we also realized like our husbands both our husbands like number one, like anxieties, like they just wish they had more time to work.
And in this context, we're both like okay well, if they want to work, like go work, you know, go provide, go take care of the family, like if you have this drive.
And for men, that's like, biologically their drive is to go out and hunt and work and provide for the family.
Right, if they want to do that, let them do that.
Yeah right, so then we can just be at home and they can provide for us right, but it like there's just so much mental gymnastics of we have to kind of untrain, or like unprogram our own brains to be like i will accept your providing yeah right, rather than it's like it's the norm right, like it should be, or like it should be something that's like yes, you provide for me right, like you, you do this for me, and like i take care of the home, and like everything is fine.
But i think, like over the past, like decades, like divorce rates are so high, like gender roles are so much more fluid now, or like people just don't care about, like traditional gender roles, or it's like outdated or like it's 2026.
Why are you talking about traditions?
But it's interesting because, like at first, I was just being like am I the only one who feels this way?
And I talked to my friend and she's like, oh no, like I feel this way too.
So I was like, oh, interesting.
So like maybe more women are feeling this way too.
But yeah, it's just, there's so much that like you don't go into being like I'm going to have a kid or like I'm going to get married to be like oh, like gender roles.
But like all these things start coming up.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's just, it's a lot.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It sounds like a lot.
No, I was thinking when you're sharing that I think ultimately, in a household there is a balance of like yin and yang right, like there is like feminine energy and masculine energy, and that has to exist, like the balance has to exist.
And i think for us specifically, the way that we grow up, grew up here in school, is that like, we can have both.
We can be both the feminine and the masculine, the sun and the moon yeah, and then there's some not shame, but there's some like well, i don't want to be fully feminine or i don't want to be like, i don't want to be trad wife yeah right, and so it's.
It's just like when you're in that position, you have a hard time being leaning into the traditional role.
Right, that's not what you went to school and started a career to do, and so i think that becomes part of like what you're sharing your challenge of figuring out like, how do you lean more into the things that you are naturally better at maybe, than your partner, like being more nurturing, and then, on his end, i can imagine that well like, if he's not as good as you, he's like then let me go do the thing that i'm good at right, and so it's interesting, like what you were sharing about what your friend said.
One, what One more thing that I just realized that that's helpful and important context too is I wanted to share her story because she's like a very career driven woman who works in the corporate setting.
I feel like for like a more creative field.
It's I don't know like.
I feel like I don't know, maybe like if you're listening you can't relate to it as much.
But she like climbed.
She's like at the top of her career and she realized she hates her job now because it's all about politics.
I think once you advance enough in your career and you have like a more senior position, it's all about politicking.
And then she was just like you know, I worked so hard to get here and I realized I don't want to be here.
And like, instead, I want to do something like more creative or I want to write more.
I want to do more like whatever.
Right.
And then she also realized she was like yeah, I guess what they say is true, that it's not that women are not taking up as much C-suite positions.
Is that?
I'm not going to say all but, like a lot of women, they reach a point in their career when they have kids that, like I, would just rather spend time with my kids.
So yeah, that was the context.
The priority and the identity.
The priority, the identity and the.
I already did the most I can do to advance in my career and I hate it.
Yeah.
Or like I'm not happy with it.
Yeah, i think the interesting thing about like what you're sharing is when i think about when i was 20.
Right, there are all these things that you want to do.
You want to have a career, you want to be a mom, you want to get married, you want to.
These are all things that you like.
Look into the future and the things that you want are, in a way, the things that make up your identity, right like your, your wants, your desires, your dreams.
That is part of who you are as a person.
And similar to like what you're saying.
I've experienced that, like when you actually get to that point like right now I'm, I just got married, right.
Like I feel like I'm on this train that I've been planning to be on and it's just consistently moving in the direction that i want.
And all of these external things are happening in my life almost like exactly how i not exactly how i envisioned, but like they're happening and i wanted them.
But when you look back, it's more about the journey of getting there.
Right, like when you become married in your 20s.
You don't know what that feels like.
You don't know what it's gonna like be like to get to a place where you're gonna get married, or like even wanting to become a mom.
Right, like you don't think that you're gonna think about gender roles and being a quote wifey and leaning more into that role in your life.
You just think i'm gonna be a mom and i think that part is what makes i don't know, it makes like growing up fun fun, yeah and like it provides more.
I think there's so much more depth to your identity.
It's not just hey, i'm a mom, or like i'm a podcaster, i'm a youtuber i'm, I'm a wife, right.
It's not just that.
It's like the experience of being those things.
There's so much more to it.
And like your experience as a wife might be completely different than my experience as a wife or a mom or, you know, like a friend and things like that.
So...
I think for anyone who obviously like we, are in a very specific time in our life and I actually think we have a lot of younger listeners, even though we're middle aged.
Yeah, I think that's going to be the running joke of the season.
I think half the list have the dreams, have the relationships that you want to have, and you're gonna get them.
You know like, so long as you have that in mind, that goal in mind, you're gonna get them.
But it's like it is really about so cheesy.
It's really about the journey, it's really about the life lessons that come with it and that's the best part i will say that's the best part of being in my 30s so far.
Yeah, It's so beautiful.
Identity.
And I feel like we just brushed the surface.
Just the surface.
Yeah.
I was like, I didn't even get to ask you like follow up questions.
Next episode.
Next episode.
In the upcoming episode.
Yeah.
We have the whole season.
Yeah.
Yeah.
If you have any questions too, the previous episode was about unconventional weddings.
If you have any questions for that of like anything you know, juicy questions, very personal questions, like happy to answer it about this episode marriage, traditional roles, all these things, any questions at all, let us know.
Send it our way.
You can email us.
Hello at voicehugspodcast.com.
Shoot us DM at voicehugspodcast.
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Yeah yeah, just it's, it's been anonymous.
Yeah, it's like just it's as if you're leaving a voicemail to your besties.
We can even alter your voice if you'd like us to.
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Yeah okay okay, sending you the biggest voice hug wherever you are in the world voice.
