Hello boys and girls ladies and germs this is Tim Ferriss welcome to another episode of the Tim Ferriss show where it is usually my Job to sit down with world -class performers of all different types to tease out their habits routines favorite books and so on That you can apply to your own lives this time
around the format is going to be a bit different by request I am the guest in the sense that I took questions It was an ask me anything of sorts from people who supported my fan supported model way back in 2019 believe it or not.
That was an ad free experiment ended up returning to ads by request That's a whole long story.
If you want to read about how that went down you can go to Tim blog slash podcast experiment but the point is we did a zoom call and They asked me anything they want to ask and we covered a lot of ground I answer questions about how I've changed my mind around parenthood What's next for me and how I'm
thinking about next steps How I find joy or attempt to find joy how to live with urgency my advice for career Reinvention or thinking about careers in the age of AI and all of the unpredictability that entails avoiding complacency Ruts and so much more which is not say I have all the answers But certainly
I explore a lot of my thinking in this and I had a blast So I hope you enjoy it as much as I did and we're going to get right to it But before that just a few words from the kind of people who make this podcast possible the following quote is from one of the most legendary entrepreneurs and investors
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that's helix sleep .com slash Tim for 25 % off on all mattress orders plus two free pillows At this altitude I can run flat out for a half mile before my hands start shaking can I also I'm a cybernetic organism living tissue over metal into skeleton Cool this is a cozy bunch not too big not too small
Scott I like your taste in the headsets, you know Thanks.
Yeah Lee popping in.
Alright, so I think the most interesting way to do this is just to Kind of go around have a conversation and people can ask their questions could be the question that you submitted Frankly to keep it interesting for me.
It could be something else too, but up to you.
Let's see Sarah would you like to go first?
Yeah, so I haven't seen you in 30 years, which you may or may not remember Yeah, I was gonna say I know that name and I know that face.
Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's Sarah Carly.
Yeah, I wait to you Yeah, it's been a minute.
Nice to see you in a long time.
So it's good to see you.
Well, I had a question about Something in the past two years that's been a significant change of mind for you Place where you've really made a big big pivot in something you thought you knew It's the biggest pivot that comes to mind as related to Parenting fatherhood just never felt like I had any evidence
to support that I would be a good dad for a host of reasons and felt like since that As far as I know is a forever decision or at least decision until you pass away.
Hopefully predating your kids that I Just did not feel Comfortable thinking about pulling the trigger on something that's significant also because I Do think on some level becoming a parent is fundamentally self -interested I don't want to call it selfish, but you are choosing to have kids All right,
so you want to make sure you bring them into the most supportive circumstances possible for them to flourish and It's I would say in the last handful of years as more and more of my friends have had kids and then second kids and some cases third kids and I've spent time with a lot of those kids that I've
heard over and over again from friends You would be a great dad.
You got to get on that train.
You got to do it So I would say that's probably the most material pivot and I can't say with a hundred percent confidence when the world's greatest dad, but I suppose the Question that I asked myself but never really applied to this But I do apply to a lot of other places is with question X or challenge
why has anyone less capable or less intelligent or Less resourced ever figured this out and done a pretty good job.
And of course the answer is yes with parenting and I just for whatever reason never made the Cognitive hop to apply that same question that I put so many other places to parenting so I would say that's the biggest one that comes to mind seems like the next great chapter and Adventure, so we'll see where that goes.
I have some pre -reqs to figure out first You know girlfriend partner wife mother of the children kind of situation just technically I don't need to like travel that path But that's where I'm focused at the moment Thanks for the question.
Nice to see you after three decades.
All right, we can go in any particular order So I'm just following some line of sorts on my screen Scott Would you like to go next not to favor all the people with headsets?
I don't know. We have multiple headsets down here Andrew as well.
Yeah, so I guess my question kind of dovetails with Sarah's a little bit It seems like you're kind of thinking about maybe next steps for you and your career your you know You've hit 10 years on the podcast Sounds like you're maybe exploring some new stuff with writing a book and doing art and I'm just
curious You know what types of new things are you exploring and how are you maybe thinking about the next?
Say 10 years of your life and kind of what's next?
Yeah, that's a big one.
So start with all the big start with the big question so we can get down to like What's your new favorite pair of socks later?
Alright, so I would say I'll back into that from the end of the question first So next 10 years who knows for me.
I've never really had super long -term goals that are well planned out in part because I feel like Looking at it from the professional perspective at least if you can hit your plan Reliably pulling up by point.
It's probably too far within your sphere of comfort if that makes sense and there are so many unpredictable elements that it's Probably I don't want to say an exercise in futility because I do think it's important to have a plan even if that plan isn't something you can Execute on perfectly but my plan time
horizon tends to be I would say with most things in this six to twelve month range and The assumption is there that if I do really well at something over that period of time It will open doors that I could not have predicted or foreseen ahead of time If that makes any sense if you think about say the first
book think about the podcast.
I could not in any universe I can imagine have foreseen What those would bring to the door?
Two three years later.
I just could not have even imagined Certainly at least half of the things it would have appeared.
So I tend to Think of it in those terms, but some of the let's just say side quests and Alleyways that I'm exploring mostly relate to trying to Break outside of what I've done before and there are a few reasons for that.
So one is I'm recognizing myself that it's very easy To not become complacent but to become comfortable with repeating certain recipes that you have in your life Whatever those recipes are and they typically relate to a domain, you know, pretty well.
So in my case, let's just say that's publishing that's podcasting on some level that's early -stage investing and while I enjoy all of those things or facets of each of those things I have felt a huge benefit in identity diversification Over time each time you try something that's not really bound within your
current identity It buys you permission to do that over and over again and to open up a Whole new realm of possibilities that you might not have considered if for instance, I viewed myself as an author I could have constrained myself further to being a business author and That was part of the reason I
chose to once the success the four -hour workweek gave me a certain grace period within which I could try anything because publishers would be like well, like we missed the first one, but let's maybe get the second one or We want to keep them for the long term so he could do the three -hour workweek in the two
-hour workweek So fine if it makes him happy to do this stupid thing called four -hour body And that's not what the publisher said but they were more excited for me to stay in my lane The four -hour body then proved to me I could experiment outside of the lines That would limit me to say the business category
and then that furthermore led me to experiment with a lot of other things So that is a long preamble to say that the areas that I'm looking at really closely right now are for instance games Which is totally at the left field right?
It wouldn't fit neatly in my Wikipedia page.
I'll put it that way and cockpunch in the whole NFT craziness was an example of also doing something very far afield and I'll show you another one actually because that couldn't show this to you otherwise.
So hold on a second.
I'll show you This for instance is a great book.
By the way, this is the DC Comics guide to writing comics By Dennis O 'Neill with an introduction by Stan Lee.
This is actually a great great book and I just Visited comic -con for the first time in this case in New York City, which was huge.
I could not believe the scale of it.
I Have always loved Illustration and wanted to be a comic book pencil or actually this is gonna suck for people who only have audio But I'll do some more show -and -tell.
Hold on Okay, so this is artwork that my mom kept That is from way back in the day.
But just to give you an idea right like these are kind of covers of magazines that I did way back in like 95 96 and This type of stuff, you know this type of illustration.
I'm not saying it's the best in the world, but it's a long -standing interest of mine and reinvigorating that so part of what I've done is look backwards in time to guess at what might elicit a Lot of energy recharge for me in the future So looking back at what really activated me and seeing if I can explore
some of those edges in the future furthermore animation is way up there and Doing creative pushes which I experimented first Through the fiction writing associate with cockpunch which by the way if you replace that word with anything else It is a pretty viable fantasy world But it was a way to take
pressure off of myself, right to publicly kind of position it as a joke and a satire But allowing me with very little pressure To play with things that otherwise if I presented them as serious I think could cause a lot of performance anxiety and insecurity because the people critiqued it I would take
it very personally stuff like this, you know masterpieces of fantasy art.
This is Frisetta on the cover lots of amazing artwork in this one and Those are a few and There's certainly the new book project But within the book project changing a lot of variables.
So for instance, and I haven't made any decisions around this yet, but The possibility of self -publishing the possibility of taking that book Presenting it serially so sharing like the first chapter or the first two chapters something like that having a private community of I don't know how many people
hundred 200 people maybe who test Aspects of the book and then provide feedback and like refine it over time and release a chapter a week or something like that over time and Have the audience track it the small audience right the private audience track it in real time and then Polish the whole thing
into a diamond hopefully and publish it later Which could be very much almost certainly at least a high percentage of that project would be outside of traditional publishing Right.
So I'm taking something I know but I'm creating a permutation that might lead somewhere very very interesting and There's a very long answer.
So obviously I'm thinking about a lot In the case of say the publishing this is true with all the other Games comic books that are that I mentioned.
I'm looking for projects that will help me to either build or deepen relationships and Acquire skills that can transcend that project So for instance if so cock punch, I mean, yeah, sure it succeeded in the sense that it raised two million dollars for size All the proceeds went to my nonprofit foundation to
fund science and so on early -stage science But NFTs as a whole as you may have noticed have fallen out of favor for a million and one reasons Which is fine and I kind of anticipated that might be the case So set expectations very very low upfront because you can't predict these types of market conditions
But I learned a lot through that ended up doing scripted podcast Met some of the best artists in the world to say Dungeons and Dragons and Magic the Gathering worked really well with them so most importantly proof to myself that I could work with a small team of creatives and we would actually get along
as opposed to like be being unreasonable and overly stubborn and control freak at which are probably ways I would describe myself, but it actually worked and I was like, holy shit Okay as a proof of concept.
I But the feeling from that and apply it to possibly something more ambitious or completely different like Animation as an example would be a very very very different iteration of that process So not sure if that answers the question But that's how I'm trying to think through a lot of these things myself.
Is that helpful at all?
Yeah, absolutely. Thanks.
All right, let's Hop around Theron my question for you is what's bringing you joy these days?
I would say It's always the simple things right?
Yes, we can search for all these esoteric means of satisfying this quest for Happiness and joy and usually the absence of those things is remedied pretty quickly with just returning to basics So for me I would say I experienced one of the most uninterrupted periods of joy most recently Being in the mountains
Spending the first half of every day more or less outside with my dog getting tons of exercise in the sun pushing the system adding some stress getting all the benefits of the hormonal cascade and so on that comes from that and Then in the Second half of the day spending time on first and foremost The
admin stuff of life is always there but really blocking out consistently and it's easier for me to do this When I have less time in a day to allocate to work When I have all the time in the world, right and I'm in an urban environment I can fritter away all that time and 10 -15 minute distractions and end
up not really Accomplishing very much and not feeling very good about it If I have the first half of the day which you could do in an urban environment to kind of dedicated to motion movement physical skill development In this case time with my dog So it could be some type of group class or otherwise
doesn't have to be the whole day but really having that in the first half of the day then having a Two to four hour period where I'm focused on something very immersive single tasking without any distractions and in this case that would have been latter half of August September and then early October,
it would have been book focused and doing that in collaboration With one other person who I'm deeply involving in this book project So I would say those are a few and then along the lines of kind of week -to -week Identity diversification so that if one thing stalls or doesn't do well or as well as I
would hope I Can still have a win so to speak like chalk things up to a win Archery has been great head to ongoing.
So I'm spending a lot of time with archery over did it the other day So my shoulder and elbow are killing me because I didn't over did in a particularly stupid way So I'm taking a few days off But that has been a really consistent practice such that if I'm not in the mountains because practically speaking
I mean you asked me personally what I'm doing but for a lot of folks like okay Well great if you happen to be able to put yourself in the mountains around rivers and lakes fantastic But even where I'm sitting right now For instance not tomorrow because I need the elbow and shoulder rest But the day
after that as soon as I wake up it's gonna be Meditation briefly and I just recently got back on the train and we might speak more about that later in this conversation then an hour of archery and Then cold plunge right like that's the morning.
It doesn't have to be four or five hours It can be quite a bit shorter and that sets the tone for the rest of the day So those are a few things that come to mind on an annual level.
I most important thing that I do for my sense of joy and well -being and I think joy for me is very often the forgetting of the self, whereas the quest for happiness can sometimes get Turned into a Obsessive focus on the self.
Does that make sense?
At least I think that's where I slip sometimes It's like I should be happy.
I should be happy. Am I happy whereas joy is a sort of emergent Experience of forgetting yourself.
So for me to facilitate that blocking out Multiple say one -week periods where I'm with groups of friends.
That's just the most reliable way to do it.
So each year I'll look through the past year identify.
Let's just call it the relationships that are most Enlivening for me where they're reliably always going to be hell.
Yeah, I wish we could have spent more time together Can't wait to do that again.
Those people it's a short list and then scheduling time with those people in group environments ideally doing something active like your to your back country skiing or hike or in the case of most recently I was a hunt with five other people and I don't hunt very frequently but that's my protein for the next
three to six months depending on how many meals I can replicate with the exact same protein and Those are some of I suppose the the variables that Seem to consistently deliver But if I'm out of sorts, it's like all right.
Are you getting enough light in the morning?
Are you getting enough exercise in the morning?
Do you have your diet dialed?
Are you in a place like New York City where surprise surprise like you've been out you've had alcohol four nights this week with your stupid Friends who also do the same thing.
It's very often the basic things and kind of removing those emergency breaks That facilitates what we're looking for what I'm looking for.
Is that helpful? Yeah, that was great.
Thanks, Tim. Yeah. Yeah for sure All right.
So kind of like wind my way Around here.
Let's see Christina.
Would you like to go next somehow later watching or talking about how you think about the next whatever six twelve months One of the things are really and more about it's your way of thinking and questioning and not particularly with tennis genii's overtaking for me The ability to ask the right questions
big from questions the good questions is probably the one portal But I'm curious about your thoughts and how they keep those questioning press Well not to get too meta I mean that is a question I ask myself quite a bit too So thanks for bringing it up.
I'd say with questions There are a lot of different Settings for questions first of all you can ask me a question.
I can ask the group of question Those might be different species of questions asking yourself questions this can also be a different species of question and The way I keep questions fresh I'll give you a simple tactical answer is for instance.
I was preparing for a podcast interview recently and I had a research doc had read through the bio had Asked the guest for certain topics.
They thought would be interesting to explore Had done my own search and come up with some independent questions But we all get in ruts that we don't recognize and those ruts aren't necessarily a bad thing But they're an easy thing so I might have my Ten go -to questions and it's easier to sit with those
ten than to come up with another ten which may or may not work so I Went into chat GPT and I said effectively How might James Lipton of inside the actors studio interview?
Guest X what are ten questions that are variants of questions that have come up a lot and inside the actor studio Give me ten.
Oh, all right Great and then the next was like give me ten more for Terry gross interviewing the same person fresh air right give me ten more with Charlie Rose and It was very very helpful or if like ten more with lacks freedom.
Sure. Why not, you know, just throw in Any one who is not me basically and I big okay Like I wouldn't ask seven of these but that's an interesting one and I wouldn't have thought of phrasing it that way or it's asking a Question that I think would be of service to my audience within the theme of the show
So I'm not deviating too far not getting too far afield But it's coming at it from an angle that I wouldn't have considered so I would say Those are all Approaches I take if I find questions that I like I save them.
They could save them to anywhere every note notion wherever you keep your notes, but I have documents that are basically running lists of questions and They could come from anywhere could be a novel Now there are questions and novels that I yank one character asks another could be in an in -flight magazine
If those still exist, I don't even know if this still exists could be practically from anywhere and then there are I would say consistent questions that I find very helpful Which you might find in some form like the five minute journal.
For instance, those are consistent prompts that work to Achieve a desired result much like a recipe if you're cooking something specifically there are guidelines that tend to work repeatedly Those are a few ways that I think about it All right, let's hop to Josh you want to go next Yeah, I was gonna ask
if you spend your life battling tech admin stuff like we do but uh that that was answered pretty quickly Yeah, there's always that stuff.
There's always that stuff.
I guess my real question some of the Successful people you've interviewed have gone through long periods of being unsuccessful or or rejected or bankrupt or whatever You've sort of documented some of your own Struggles writing the body book and some of the other things I guess You know, what are some
of the unifying themes about those who eventually do?
Breakthrough and kind of how to get out of a rut you've already touched on which was part of my question But I think you know anything you could just elaborate on that but it should be great Yeah, I can could you give me if you're open to it?
You don't have to but a little more context for why that question because that could that could help I guess, you know sort of taking a little bit of a career break as you have and thinking about things that have brought me joy in the past was certainly one thing that you know looking to do next moves
and I think the decision process that you've already outlined a little bit is Things that bring you joy and you've kind of arrived at a couple core principles of things that you're looking for your next projects To help you do I guess just a little bit more upstream from that how you made the decision to
call time out after the 10 years and take this about upon and You know just how you sort of got out of the day today of doing What you do so very well and you know, I know you've touched upon it's it's hard to do that but you know just anything on that that you could share would be helpful in terms of how
you realigned your Thinking to do something a little bit different but building on what you've already done very well I'd say a few things so I could speak to my decision to hit pause or rethink things I suppose there are a few fundamental beliefs that led me to do that or allowed me to do that.
You know, the first is that constant motion in some respects or constant productivity per se is the enemy of oblique thinking so if you're looking at Seeing a problem or situation with fresh eyes in an uncommon way that allows you to make unique or highly leveraged decisions When you are constantly
churning, I think it requires you to be this close to the problem And therefore it's hard to zoom out.
So for me I had that belief to begin with that not necessarily stillness but having a little bit of distance Is necessary for me to really consider Doing x before the entire rest of the world does x and i'm looking for Ideally being a category of one.
I don't like competing in my professional life in this particular way Archery or something like that great, you know compartmentalized very clear It's time bound pass fail follow the points great, but when it can become a sort of never -ending story of Unquestioned ambition within say the world of podcasting
Then I want to make sure there are periods built in where I have some distance the other fundamental belief and i'm sticking with the belief stuff because these are thoughts that we take to be true beliefs are thoughts we take to be true and I'm sure i'm borrowing that from someone like biring katie
the belief structure is sort of the read raft upon which everything else floats and If you really want to have the most Optionality with your direction.
I think it's very helpful to make the implicit beliefs explicit and look at them carefully So the other belief that I think is helpful.
I actually Know quite concretely.
This is not limited to people who are in the top 1 of 1 The world does not End if you slow down or take a break it'll carry on just perfectly fine Generally without you now there are constraints if you're saying That you want to take a break from a job that provides all the income from your family and pays
the mortgage and Puts food on the table obviously, there are constraints, but if you were to delete all social media from your phone and titrate down The kind of aperture of noise and news that gets flooded into your system It'd be fun.
You'd probably be better off so the hyperkinetic Feeling of modern society is not conducive or necessary For making making decisions with outsized outcomes if that makes sense Those are a few kind of underpinning beliefs and there are people who prove this right?
A lot of the people that I most respect in their profession like a daniel de leuis or something Like they disappear for five years at a time.
They come back. No one's like where's daniel de leuis?
What are his latest tweets about politics like nobody gives a shit, right?
As long as you're really good at craft x you are going to have I think a good number of options So i'm meandering a little bit but help me refocus Is there a particular aspect of your question that you'd like me to hit?
I think you're really hitting on a lot of the stuff and you know, like you said earlier some of the stuff about heating How do you think about things that bring you joy and then you're you know real on with your beliefs to get there?
I think this is really helpful.
Thanks Yeah I mean it's inspiring that someone as successful as you at something has done this in taking stock and sort of step back Because it kind of gives the rest of us hope to do the same thing You know, even if it's just something that you're just saying i'm going to take a step back And then
do similar to what i'm doing and some other stuff Maybe in a different way with a different lens It's just helpful to think through that to get the rest of us to the to the happy place Yeah Happy to try to assist.
I definitely don't have everything figured out.
I would say also that and this comes back to Christina's question on questions If you're hitting a dead end or you don't seem to be able to reliably answer a question And it's causing you stress for instance, like how can I find joy?
Let's just say that you've been banging your head against that question and it hasn't been producing great results One thing you can do that.
I will sometimes do is okay Maybe that's not a good question, but I there's like a feeling that i'm going for If I look back at the past like what are some of the antecedents to joy?
So maybe the question isn't like how do I create more joy?
It's how do I create some?
Precursor to that and for me one of those is A sense of losing the self or the dissolution of the self.
That's another way that I think about these things antecedents 2x Just a quick thanks to one of our sponsors and we'll be right back to the show This episode is brought to you by ag1 the daily foundational nutritional supplement that supports whole body health I do get asked a lot what I would take
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The number one drink ag1 .com slash tim last time drink ag1 .com slash tim check it out All right, let's we're just going to work our way through Wade would you like to go next?
Well, I just want to say thanks for everything you do.
I genuinely appreciate it.
Love the content Love what you're about learn a lot.
You've been like a gym companion for me for like nine years each nothing better than a good tim ferris podcast in the gym, so Genuinely appreciate that.
I think my question is around Maybe i'm wrong.
It's just an observation i've listened to for a long time seems like maybe The edges have softened a little bit in regards to your life from a personality Seems like maybe there's a hint of spirituality That's evolved a bit since some time been listening.
So is there anything in particular?
That has helped maybe soften The edges and is there a different perspective on spirituality than there used to be I would say i've definitely softened a lot in the last Five years especially and maybe i'm just getting older and tired who knows?
But if we take that off the table as an explanation Although I think a lot of stuff comes down I was talking to a friend and they were like, oh, yeah, just uh You know becomes so much Chiller and conflict resolution with my partner after 10 years, but it took like five years and I was like maybe it's
just fatigue I was sort of being a jerk about it and then just being playful But if I take that off the table, I mean there are a few things that were proactive and also just life experiences.
I think that contribute to that so I would say one is seeing Dozens upon dozens upon dozens of close friends or podcast guests who are materially successful beyond belief have all the prestige you could possibly imagine in a business capacity Who are nonetheless?
dissatisfied or Chasing something like a hungry ghost if that makes sense and the reason that's relevant is that a lot of the Piss and vinegar and sort of spitfire focus that i've had I think has been predicated subconsciously on some belief that with enough of x success that success resolves I'm not going
to say all issues because I I never would have said that but most issues and That's just not true.
It's just not true at all.
I would say also What i've observed in Very wealthy people is that they build they build they build, you know, they their number moves they make X amount of money then they want 10x and then no it's as soon as I have 100x and then it's as soon as I Have a thousand x then I can chill out and i'll know
everything's going to be okay and If you put that under scrutiny when i've seen Older people and i've spoken to say grandparents or people who are building dynastic wealth It seems like this is gonna sound obnoxious, but i'll just say it which is like if you give your kids a ton of money Let's just
say that's more than 10 or 20 million bucks, right people who are making just obscene amounts of money building incredible amounts of wealth There is an amount of money Past a certain point that seems to just fuck up your kids horribly I'm not saying that's always the case, but the I just want to create
a better and brighter future for my kids and give them the things I didn't have and There's a point where More is a lot less from what i've seen.
It's just my personal impression So if you realize that the professional stuff is not going to solve all your problems or all your challenges, let's just say And if you realize In accumulating Scrooge McDuck levels of wealth and then donate it all to your kids If it turns into a serious amount of money, it's
probably a bad idea.
It's not just neutral You might actually really screw your kids up Then it raises the question why?
around a lot At least around the business stuff.
I think it contributes in addition to other things that i'll mention to Taking it seriously, but not too seriously taking it less seriously.
Does that make sense?
and when you take those things less seriously If you have been inclined to take them very seriously and consequently yourself very seriously I think by taking those things less seriously You start to take yourself a little less seriously Like these conversations also about legacy and like leaving something
to be remembered. They're helpful in some cases like those myths, but It's like how many people can name Like the most powerful people in the world when the Assyrians were running around You know how many people can name the most powerful Babylonian?
Alexander the Great.
What's his full name?
Nobody knows so it's like so the idea especially with the amount of information overwhelmed That is our current day The idea of also creating some permanent record of yourself that just persists over Like more than 10 years after you're dead if you're lucky is kind of silly.
I mean, it's a little silly but we all need reasons to do things and actually I think Josh you're asking about people who failed and failed and then succeeded.
I think Myths are very helpful here So coming up with myths whether that is like when I have enough money, it's going to solve everything great Like that's an incredible incentive Or the myth that like I am the only person in the world who's destined to create this amazing piece of art Okay, like maybe
that's true, but it's probably a myth, but it can be a very empowering myth And it makes me think of Seth Goen who said I'm paraphrasing But you know past a certain point money is a story.
So pick a story you can live with That benefits you instead of handicaps you then on the spirituality side I generally steer away from that term.
It's a useful term because there isn't a great replacement in some conversations, but it can get Used in a lot of different ways, but I would say that my openness to It's not even openness It's like my recognition that the more we know the more we realize we don't know I think has Opened my mind as
have a lot of strange experiences that i've had with Whether it's psychedelics or otherwise, it's not limited to that And I explore the fringes, right?
I mean I really do and I try to keep my skeptics hat on I think i'm actually quite good at not fooling myself and I will ask What are the alternate explanations for this?
How might this otherwise be explained, etc, etc But there's a lot of strange stuff out there.
It doesn't mean it's magic but it does highlight sometimes the limits of our current abilities to Kind of measure and freeze frame things for scientific studies So those are all contributors.
I would say in the bucket broadly speaking of not taking myself Too too seriously if my work is a subset of myself and it applies to that too Would be having a lot of friends die Like i've had lots of friends pass away.
I've had people get very sick I've seen people succumb to dementia as you get older and you see more and more of this It just highlights the fact that this ride is not it's not a long ride And i'm not convinced that you know death is the end necessarily but still we don't know You know, let's not spend
the entire roller coaster worrying about, you know, whatever trump said on your phone Like roller coaster is not gonna last forever so Focusing, you know taking the view and i'll poke the person next to you try to share a laugh because it's just not That long and even if you come to a quote -unquote
natural end in old age, it's not long But sadly i've lost a lot of friends and acquaintances certainly to Car accidents.
I mean you name it like you just don't know.
So I think the softening is around a lot of that the softening also comes from I think exploring different modalities for trying to metabolize the childhood abuse that i've talked about elsewhere and that requires A degree of cultivating compassion for yourself That I historically have not paid a lot
of attention to It's hard for me to see any way around Developing compassion more compassion for yourself if you want to genuinely express compassion for other people I'm not sure there's a work around there I've thought about this quite a bit.
It goes both ways but Fundamentally, I think that's a homework assignment for a lot of people that If i'm not going to say solved but if that is paid sufficient attention has all these downstream benefits One of which I think is just a general softening I would say So those are the things that come
to mind Oh, thanks, man.
That was awesome. Yeah appreciate it.
Yeah, my pleasure All right.
So the faces have moved around a little bit.
I'll try to keep track I think I can keep track of who's gone who hasn't you know, since tim is up in the corner next to me I'm gonna go with tam.
You want to go next Yeah, again, thanks for all you do It's an amazing journey from your books through your podcast journey and and cock -tunch I've got some right over there.
I'm still drinking it So I had a question That was kind of tuned to all these longevity protocols with ai and all the latest research that's coming out As far as the compounds of protocols, like how do you keep up, right?
For you i've been introduced to peter atia Andrea shiberman lane norton and a lot of other great kind of contemporary leading edge science backed Information seekers and deliverers.
So how do you approach handling that?
Especially with this we're in in the age of ai now So that was going to be my machine that's what I submitted But on the topics that you just have been going through And it's in my own life i'm realizing these instances, you know when people are passing My dog pepper passed away just like two months
ago What do you do with grief?
And how is that something that as far as your your approach something that you see is helpful?
Something to be avoided.
I mean you're kind of all through it with what the information you just been Walking us through but just kind of with grief because you only have so much time, right?
Thanks. Yeah, for sure So on the grief side, I definitely don't think it's a bad thing.
I think it's part of the human condition No expert, but I would say a few things that This kind of comes back to uh, weight's question about spirituality In the sense and I will come back to the longevity protocols and so on might as well talk about that but I think that the baby has been thrown out
with the bath water in some respects with the stripping away of religion From Let's just call it modern secular society and what I mean by that is not that we should believe in the guy with the beard and the clouds i'm not saying that but That there are cultural Milestones In some cases writes a passage
These markers along the way On this journey of life that are codified in say religion and in some cases that can be very helpful.
So for instance Mourning periods will sometimes be very carefully outlined and a group of people will agree With this type of death you mourn for this period of time.
Here's the protocol Maybe we're black and so you can have a feeling of completeness and perhaps closure within the construct of this Societal norm, right?
We don't really have that like it's left up to everybody to sort of create our own Then i'm not saying this for everybody.
There are certainly plenty of religious folks out there, but by and large Let's just say in places where I spent a lot of time Austin New York California people are somewhat cut adrift and sure they might be able to tell you all about different philosophers they read in college and listen about on podcasts,
but fundamentally, there's a Sense of being somewhat unmoored I would say so the grief Topic is a really good one and it serves as kind of a microcosm of the macro it Reflects the challenges within grief.
I think reflect broader societal challenges the book on grief and grieving is Probably the most common recommendation that I hear from say podcast guests So I think that could be worth checking out on the longevity protocols just to take a hard left I would say I really don't try to stay up to date
with the longevity protocols in part because there's so much garbage and there's so many Influencers quote unquote trying to peddle whatever Revshare stem cell clinic they've partnered with in tijuana or whatever might be the case It's very difficult to separate fact from fiction.
If you don't have a really reliable source.
I would say just follow Peter Honestly peter to you for that specifically that's really his wheelhouse He focuses on health span I've known him since 2009.
I've spent time with his doctors in the clinic i've gone through bio graph Which he's involved with And so on so I have a high degree of confidence In peter and he's i've seen him repeatedly Turn down offers for very lucrative business arrangements in exchange for promoting x y or z and he just won't
do it if he doesn't really feel 100 comfortable Supporting their conclusions claims So I would say pay attention to that and you know, frankly Like the more we learn the more the basics of the basics for a reason.
It's like creatine's been around for decades This is nothing new Just took some before doing this conversation, right?
It's present in a lot of food that we consume naturally.
It's a known quantity in the body Pretty well understood as soon as you start getting into the bleeding edge where it's like well, these people are going to hunterus and injecting themselves with phallostatin And look at these amazing before and after photos But like oh, yeah does kind of like turn
off your fsh and so Might make you infernal in these animal models something like that seems to happen But like look how awesome his a -pack looks.
It's like well I'm not sure you want to be the third monkey shot into space with that stuff as a human subject so I tend to stay away from the bleeding edge.
I used to be very aggressive with this certainly in my four -hour body days I was very aggressive with this And I think in part because I was fascinated in part because I didn't foresee How nagging certain problems could be it's like yeah Do you fuck up and have problem that causes like orthopedic issues
in your elbow? It's not a foregone conclusion that that's going to be fixed a year later.
You might just have like tendinosis for the next 40 years oops, so I do pay more attention to the downside and I would say that in general One of the ways that I frame this for myself is not what can I do that will make me live longer?
But what can I subtract?
That might make me live longer or just live more healthfully.
So for instance, I mean this is going to sound Maybe funny and there's a lot of pseudoscience wackadoodle stuff out there about this but just minimizing exposure to plastics and phthalates and things like that It seems very conclusive at this point that From an endocrine perspective and so on these
are just very very bad news.
So it's like don't heat things in plastic Use more glass These are very very basic things use filtration Like I have proper filtration for your water.
Like if you don't have really really good filtration for your water You might want to take a look at it because even in very rural areas you could have for instance in some of the mountainous areas I've spent time like high levels of arsenic because there used to be mining And if you're way out in the country,
you might have higher concentrations of groundwater pesticides things like this from agriculture So just paying really close attention to that kind of stuff Exercise it's like the cure all Right.
It's like zone two weight training.
Just like you just gotta do it or you don't have to do it But people are always glad to have done it I would say and it feels good for me at least.
It's the most consistent mood elevator for sure in addition to cold exposure and these tools I think if someone is On the verge of being diabetic or diabetic There could very well be a role for these these drugs like oseptic or munjar etc But they're not free lunches come back to the blog post.
I wrote some time ago.
I think it's just called no biological free lunches it's like there are trade -offs here and If you don't know what the trade -offs are it's not because they don't exist It's just because we have not identified them as consistently.
Yeah But if it's a matter of life and death and you need to lose weight Hey, then you do a risk calculus But in general Like the stuff that I'm doing for longevity is the stuff I've been doing for 10 plus years creatine Exercise try not to stuff your fucking face every time you sit down to eat, which is my
biggest challenge I love eating.
God. Do I love eating?
Uh, you know, but like these are known problems.
So those are my thoughts on the longevity stuff Thanks, Tim Yeah, and sorry about your dog, man I think about that all the time got my pup right next to me It's just like oh god, it's just like I think i'm gonna cry on planes every time I think about it So i'm sorry.
All right, joel. You want to hop in?
Hey, uh, tim and other tim.
Sorry about your dog too.
I lost a cat two months ago Also had her for 14 years had her from when she was a kid and Something that really helped me.
I mean she was I spent a lot of time with that cat right and I lived in a small apartment for many years just me and her and Now we have some land and I buried her I dug her four feet down I dug the hole myself with my wife like this.
She was nighttime and digging a hole and We really think a lot about environmentalism because we were not religious.
So we just really like thinking about nature And so to bury her not cremator to get her body from the vets And not put her in a plastic bag and dig her deep enough where Animals don't get to her and she's on our land and she's gonna biodegrade return to the earth Yeah, and wear black for a couple days
and see it as morning I know she's she was just a cat But I think there's that gravestone that meme that from like 100 years ago where she was enough of a human to be a comfort in times of Stress and sadness even though she was just a cat that helped us that was our process two months ago coincidentally
So I'd share that Tim.
Yeah, thanks. Yeah, so um Question so I've got a pre -prepared question that coincidentally josh I saw he was asking about kind of creative projects and he had a copy because we have to do the video which is pretty cool Rick Rubens the creative act I saw that copy on josh's zoom So my question is about that I
think a lot about creativity I've been making a living as an artist for a number of years and in his book the creative act rick talks about the aesthetic it's one of the chapters and he's describing creative projects where they give you like a primal feeling of warmth in your body and he says that that's
a great creative compass to recognize When you're searching for a breakthrough when you're like in a slog of bad work and mediocrity and Experiments that are going nowhere, but when you feel aesthetic about something, that's a great compass for trying to discover Greatness or a breakthrough or he says
like an answered prayer And I I certainly felt like glimpses of it at times But i'm curious in your past project or your future what you're working on when you have felt the aesthetic the aesthetic in Ecstatic sorry the aesthetic in creative projects And especially like in the future like what what you
think in in in the next projects might be What gives you that sense of the ecstatic?
Mm -hmm. I think about this a lot not in those terms.
I mean, I know rick decently well And makes sense that that would be in the book I haven't read the entire book, but it makes a lot of sense.
It would be in there I think a lot about a few things not just Feeling that I would say for me.
It's a quickening of sorts It's like if i'm engaged with a certain type of project or discussion about a potential project And i've got the kind of two cups of coffee with no jitters.
Just that like extreme Comfortable focus like a calm but intense focus that is energy giving I pay a lot of attention to that.
I also think about clearing the deck so that you can actually Pick up that signal All right, for instance if you consume too many stimulants too much coffee too much this too much macho, whatever the hell it might be in a sense you're raising the level of Gain might not be the right word, but level
of static So it becomes harder to pick out that signal you might get a lot of false positives Or you might be irritable and then get a lot of false negatives We're just like oh this is making me creepy and crawly and it's like no It's because you had your fifth double espresso for the day dummy.
So for me personally, I try to keep track of that and Paying attention to the physiology which is not inherently Natural for me or doesn't come in reflexively because i've spent so much time Looking at kind of the spreadsheet analysis side of things being really analytical But if I get off a phone call
and i'm drained or if I get off a phone call i'm like, yeah, fuck Yeah, I want to do another one of those It's sometimes that simple and it's not That I know With certainty that x marks the spot.
This is the project when it's done and it looks like this This is going to be the ecstatic moment.
It's not so much that for me.
It's like a scent trail It's like an energetic scent trail if that makes sense and There is a description.
I can't remember whose description it was about writing a novel And the metaphor was writing a novel is like driving Across the country starting at night with your headlights on It's like you can't see your destination, but you don't need to see your destination You just need to see far enough in front
of you to kind of navigate Your way and adjust So I would say for me Those are some of the ways I think about it.
I mean the cockpunch is ridiculous as it is like that was one of those Where I was just so energized by the prospect of digging into the art specifically and the fantasy and what that would do from a freedom perspective in writing fiction versus highly researched non -fiction I was like Okay, I don't
even know that seems kind of like a dead end on some like this could be a huge mistake But i'm getting so much of a physical response.
I was like Fuck it, you know, this seems like not the kind of thing to ignore and That liberated so much energy that I could apply not just to that project But to other projects that i've no regrets about it whatsoever I'm curious if you've ever gone into lord of the rings because It's such a cultural
phenomenon and lord of the rings has had a big impact on my life in terms of fantasy And with cockpunch and dmd do they have like a hero's journey?
like bible jesus Like lord of the rings does did you think about that at all with cockpunch?
Does dnd have that like a singular figure like proto carrying the ring like have you ever Inserted that or thought about that dnd as far as I know does not have that Lord of the rings.
I mean I was just in oxford for a week in the uk and was looking at original handwritten notes from Tolkien and Looking at his scripts of elvish Spending time in pubs where he and csl and others would hang out So I am deeply deeply interested by Tolkien.
I think a good dungeon master Will have some felt sense of the hero's journey as their weaving adventures for people that are playing out in real time.
So The circumstances and the players and the module don't always conform To like all is lost and then there's the redemption.
It might just be all is lost and then you're fucking dead So it doesn't always have like the the star wars like yeah, go r2d2 moment like do you have a singular Hero in cockpunch as it's laid out right now That's not made clear in my mind if I were to So that with some of the recent art I put on instagram.
I said, okay, we're going to call this Legends of varlata and so I just took the cockpunch out So let's say it's legends of varlata.
There is a character that I keep coming back to in my own mind Too and it's not a jesus character, but it's sort of like an ender's game Frodo ish character is Tyrolean, so the son Who is in the last few episodes of the podcast?
so tyrolean And his father that particular dynamic.
I have like an entire if somebody was like here's a hundred million Box go make something awesome I'm like, I know exactly what I would make this is what I would do and it would be fucking amazing like I know This sounds ridiculous and just so arrogant to say but it's like no Like I based on working
with the concept artists the feedback I can give I can storyboard well enough To kind of like frank miller esque like I can be a primary writer, but I can also have I have the sort of directorial Cinematic sense for how things might be framed visually also That I can work really well with creatives
who are working with animation moving pictures, whatever.
So I would say though like the two the core relationship That would drive that movie would be the father's son and nothing like tragic has happened yet But if I were to continue my writing for like a few more thousand words, like stuff would get very exciting and super off the rails really quickly and then
There would be things to solve something like that so Yeah, yeah, I think it would be fun.
It's just figuring out how to go from You know rooster nfts to a hundred million dollar animated film Just a couple of hops in between that I need to figure out but seeing for instance And I mean this is like i'm not a gaming studio with gajillions of dollars in revenue but arcane seeing what league
of legends and Riot games did with arcane if you guys haven't seen arcane on netflix go watch it It's bananas.
I mean if you want to see something where I mean like the most off the rails Budget for something animated It's really remarkable and there's a youtube series on the making of which I would also recommend checking out All right.
Let's see chris the Katana and a fender strata caster maybe in the background.
Yeah, that was a practice Should've been more conscious maybe in the background.
I'm not sure. Oh, I like it.
I'm into it No, it's practice swords.
Everyone. Where do you put it?
You put there kind of helps people when they come in the office guys.
It's a challenge. I guess thanks first for putting this together I love the format.
It's kind of neat to meet all different people We share an interest in what you've been doing and that comes in.
Yeah, my pleasure. I'm having fun I was wondering in your case, you know For me if I looked at the last 10 years for myself It was an underlying scene for me that I really Found that I um, wasn't that I was an impatient person, but I found that Really developing high level of patience with both myself
and others It seemed to drag everything Else alone in a positive way whether it be compassion or empathy or that kind of thing If I had to pick a seam in the last 10 years for myself That would probably it that really Might account for positive changes and growths in that regard I was wondering over
the last 10 years you found a common theme the same way last 10 years Well, I could use some lessons and patience.
That's never been my strong suit I would say my mom made jokes about my impatience since I was a little kid So I guess i'm the the counter example, although that's been a project But if i'm looking at a through line over the last 10 years, I would say it is developing More Awareness in different capacities
so that I can self -regulate my physiological response.
That's a very wordy thing to say but to explain it I could say that my Challenge has been since childhood that I have a very hypervigilant system So my sympathetic nervous system just the noradrenaline adrenaline all these things kick off at the slightest provocation could be just You know someone dropping
a book in a hotel in the room next to me when i'm asleep and then all of a sudden Heart rates whatever 120 and I can't get back to sleep that type of thing and That can come up also in conversation If i'm talking to someone and they say something that I create a story in response to and the story is very
upsetting And then suddenly my physiology is fucked then the physiology feeds back into the cognitive loop, right?
I explained it to another therapist recently because this was a cbt context I was like, well, we're going to work on the thoughts and I said we can work on the thoughts But i'm not convinced the thoughts are where things start.
I actually think that it's possible My physiology gets activated and then it's a state in search of a story.
That's the phrasing I used It's a state in search of a story.
You have this uncomfortable Feeling or this strong feeling and because we're meaning making machines.
We don't like uncertainty It's like well, let me go find a story that could explain that and maybe it's a story about myself Maybe it's a story about the world.
Maybe it's a story about somebody else.
So i would say the last 10 years has been trying to cultivate an awareness with different tools meditation psychedelic therapy is reading books like awareness by anthony damello so that in the moment I can at least be aware of what's happening.
So for instance, I have been using this app Which is what I use to get back on the train for the last handful of weeks Kevin rose good buddy.
Kevin rose introduced me to henry shuckman and I had henry on the podcast twice.
He is a zen Meditation and master now, I don't like that master term, but he's one of I want to say three or four people Authorized to teach this particular school of zen in the united states and he then developed Started to develop an app.
I invested in it, but it was early days kind of back up a napkin thing And now it's built out.
It's called the way if you want to try it And i've been using it 10 minutes a day twice a day and I had a really really challenging conversation today With someone i'm very close to and I could feel my physiology.
Just kidding I have so much background with with this person and I was just like oh here we fucking go again You know front of the house.
I was just like oh And I was able to and this is going to seem very rudimentary But like as I was having this really strong physiological response just to go body Like as i'm listening to the person the person just be like body i'm just noting That my body is having this extreme response and by noting
it Not trying to suppress it necessarily just noting it having that Drop in intensity so that I could engage in a way that was less reactive.
So I would say the project then for the last 10 years has been developing an awareness of an appreciation of How much my physiology drives everything that happens up here and paying more attention to that Not just trying to cross examine the thoughts because the thoughts are I think a by -product sometimes
of a rapid heart rate things like that Does that answer the question?
Absolutely. That's good.
All right, cool. Yeah.
Thanks for the question All right.
I think we have One person left lee I believe Would you like to go?
Hi there Hi from Canada.
I was having technical difficulties when everyone was doing our introductions So I guess my question is a two part or part and a half question So i'm a 47 year old man with a five year old daughter So I started late in life and all I wish for her is could See her find something that lights her up anything
I guess that ties into me in my life right now as i'm wishing that so badly for her I realized that I need to make a career change.
I don't love my job So I have kind of I decided to go with a clean sleep any of my past doesn't matter.
I want to start Figure out something that lights me up.
Is there a few questions that you ask yourself if you ever feel stuck Trying to figure out what that is So you're feeling stuck at the moment in terms of choosing a path forward for yourself To find something that lights me up.
I'm lucky right now because I have six months off so I can think about My next move where I want to go what I want to do Any little ember I get and I follow down that path.
I think to myself, okay Well, is ai gonna do this in five years?
How much effort do I want to put into it?
And i'm just trying to So there's a few questions I can ask myself for a few things I can do Just to find that thing.
Yeah. Yeah for sure.
What are some of the Options that you're considering at the moment So one of them was architectural in the house design, but i'm thinking in five years That's going to be pretty much taken by ai i'm sure That's the thing i'm stuck.
I used to be in the restaurant business.
I don't want nothing to do with that anymore I owned a restaurant for a while and you know, i'm just kind of at that point where The next decision I make I really want to get excited about it and it could be anything I'm all about learning things and just I need to find you know That spark so i'm into
Architecture and that's what I thought was going to be the path and then I thought okay Well, I don't have all the answers, of course But my thinking around ai because this is a common concern, right?
You're not alone in this A lot of people are wondering what will be gobbled by ai and the I think the short answer is nobody has an idea right nobody really knows and It's easy to become paralyzed given that there's so much uncertainty around it, but my feeling is There's certain Career paths.
Let's just say that are already being eaten.
If you were to say i'm going to be a logo designer and Earn my money on fiverr I'd say that's probably going to get Consumed within the next very short period of time But if you have the flexibility to consider paths, I would pay more attention to the quickening than Speculation about ai number one.
There's no right path, right?
So you can take some pressure off yourself When you realize that everybody's making it up as they go along Like there's no one right answer in the mathematical proof of your life.
Does that make sense?
It's going to be A trial and error process like it is With everything that we do in life so I would say that With something like architectural design, for instance I actually don't think it is a foregone conclusion that it's all going to be consumed by ai in part because There are open questions around
this technology For instance, like will people want to watch movies that are purely generated by ai that make them cry?
Like are people going to want to cry?
Knowing that no human was involved that it was just based on large language model plus other ais being trained on certain data sets finding patterns and then Producing a desired emotion are people going to want that for instance?
I mean people still buy handmade shoes, right people still buy artwork produced by artists people still Pay for many things that they could pay less for if they were willing to go to the lowest cost provider So there is a market for that and I think that In questions of taste and conversation and so on most
people are not going to be Do -it -yourselfers with Everything in their lives acting as the direct interface with ai what I could see Is that you end up let's just say working in Architectural design and instead of having three employees you have Three really well trained ais that you pay 19 to 100 a month
for that take the place of those employees and help you with various aspects of the job I could see that in the same way that you might use something like fresh books for accounting, right?
And you'd be like well I'm not the best draftsman, but I can do this this and this and my value is in interfacing with the client figuring out these following things and then These steps of the process are going to be well handled by an ai so I think that That's entirely possible but my uninformed perspective
is that The magical skill it's not magical but the powerful skill in any rapidly changing world Which includes ai it's not limited to that.
There's a lot of stuff I mean there's the rate of change is just going parabolic in so many different fields.
So it's not going to be limited to ai is Adaptability and confidence in your ability to trial and error and ultimately kind of figure it out so I do think that A lot of this hinges also on how we think about worst case scenarios So I don't know anything about your personal setup, but let's just say
you have some savings, right?
And you have like a methodical plan for Handling costs associated with your daughter and you live in canada So unlike in the us there may be some things covered by your fine government that We don't come across as easily here then You may have more room to experiment than you give yourself credit for if that makes
sense, right? You may have more safety nets and The worst case may not be that bad.
So for instance You could do and this is available On the blog if you just go to tim .blog slash ted I think there's the ted talk on fear setting and then there's the the text from the four -hour work week on fear setting just to do that exercise And what you may realize is let's say worst case ai eats
architectural design but you get three or four years of Feeling really gratified by your work.
You're learning a ton.
You're interacting with people you you Really respect and like we all deal with bullshit, right?
It's not going to be all kittens and rainbows But like overall you're like wow, this is so much better than Running that restaurant next number of years ago and then ai eats it and you're like, okay now I have to start over Would you regret having done it?
Maybe not It depends a lot on what the worst case looks like when you make it granular And the only way you're going to figure that out at least the only way I can figure it out is trying to put it on paper and Figure out like what are the worst things that could happen?
How could I decrease the likelihood of those things happening Next column, what could I do to get back on my feet?
Okay So let's say you try that and you're like fuck that didn't work I need to figure out what's next But in the meantime, I need to make some money like could you do something in your current?
Industry could you like worst case you're like, oh, I really don't want to do it But i'm gonna consult for people who own restaurants for a period of time to make ends meet and then i'll figure out my next move Probably right.
So I would say a place that might help you get unstuck.
And this is true for me as well is doing the fear setting exercise and also Realizing that very few moves are fatal Like very very very few So those are my thoughts on that.
Awesome. Thanks so much.
Yeah, you're welcome Yeah, all right guys Well, we've been going for a minute here And it's time for me to go get some food since I had basically mixed nuts and sweet potato fries My whole day of food Just not gonna necessarily help me live to be 150, but you know, we all have our off days So i'm gonna go
try to get a proper meal and uh, really nice to meet you all and spend time with you all And see some of you for not the first time In the case of a few folks who were here earlier.
So have a wonderful evening and a great weekend and Thanks for being part of the experiment Hey guys, this is tim again Just one more thing before you take off and that is five bullet friday Would you enjoy getting a short email from me every friday that provides a little fun before the weekend?
Between one and a half and two million people subscribe to my free newsletter my super short newsletter called five bullet friday Easy to sign up easy to cancel it is basically a half page That I send out every friday to share the coolest things i've found or discovered or have started exploring over
that week It's kind of like my diary of cool things it often includes articles i'm reading books i'm reading albums perhaps gadgets gizmos all sorts of tech tricks and so on that get sent to me by my friends including a lot of podcast guests and these strange esoteric things end up in my field and then
I test them and then I share them with you.
So if that sounds fun again It's very short a little tiny bite of goodness before you head off for the weekend something to think about If you'd like to try it out, just go to tim .blog slash friday type that into your browser tim .blog slash Friday drop in your email and you'll get the very next one.
Thanks for listening As many of you know for the last few years i've been sleeping on a midnight luxe mattress from today's sponsor helix sleep I also have one in the guest bedroom downstairs and feedback from friends has always been fantastic kind of over the top to be honest I mean, they frequently
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It's something they comment on without any prompting for me whatsoever I also recently had a chance to test the helix sunset elite in a new guest bedroom Which I sometimes sleep in and I picked it for it's very soft But supportive feel to help with some lower back pain that i've had the sunset elite
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