This week in RetroNauts Sonic CD more like Sonic C, Dr Ovi Ginterbor D Ovi D, because I've got COVID.
Hello, welcome to Retronauts.
You're not getting a good joke because, as previously mentioned at the time of this recording, I've got COVID.
Okay, okay.
Can I step in here?
Yeah.
I just thought about this.
Sonic CDs nuts.
That's good.
That's pretty better.
Should we do over?
This week in Retronauts, Sonic CD's nuts.
There we go.
I'm not doing the whole thing.
We have an amazing theme song, though, if you haven't heard it.
Oh, it rules.
It is quality.
I think it's Anna Maniguchi who did that.
Anna Maniguchi.
It's probably one of the two or three... five podcast theme tunes i've ever heard what is what other ones are that are good do you think one more go i don't know if you've ever listened to that scottish gaming podcast done by barry who does all the cool stuff it's really good oh you'd love it it sounds like dizzy but exploding out of your screen oh nice nice nice okay dill dorks that's just a good song called i want you in my bedroom it's very good dill dorks yeah what is that about is that like a dill cast Friend of a friend's podcast about all doing sexo.
Oh, like dildos.
Dildogs.
I quite like that.
Because a dork is also a penis, isn't it?
So it works in both ways.
Am I right about that being the name, or is that a different podcast about that?
Well, how many dildo podcasts do you listen to?
Well, this is the thing.
I've only heard one at once, but I might have heard people refer to another one.
You have to get a broad base.
You know, you need to get a lot of perspectives before you make any decisions.
You know what you really need a broad base on is a dildo.
That's what they say on the podcast.
That's the first advice they get.
Yes, it is the dildos.
Thank goodness.
Welcome to Retronauts.
Who's with me today?
Dave, you're here, aren't you?
Yep hello, i'm dave uh, and i was thinking that for this, i'm dave bulmer from sonic the comic, the podcast, and i was thinking that for this uh episode of uh, sonic retro perspective uh retronauts um, i would go to another country and uh, make my own one, and then you and shay can make one.
And, oh no, that analogy doesn't work.
You and shay should go to another country and make this episode, and i should make my own.
This episode and yours will definitely be better than mine, because Is this a reference to the multiple soundtracks?
No, that's a reference to how some of the team went away to America and made a...
Better game than this.
And then some people stayed behind and made this.
Oh, yeah, but what was the better game they made?
Because I can only think of Sonic 2, which is markedly worse.
Oh, yeah, I forgot.
You hate Sonic 2, don't you?
No, I don't hate it.
It's just not as good as Sonic CD.
Well, what they made was Sonic 3.
Yes, they made Sonic 2.
Yes, they made Sonic 2 while they were there. but it was to prepare for making Sonic 3.
Well, how do we feel about Sonic 3 collectively?
I don't really care for Sonic 3 anymore.
Rubbish!
I can't think of much to say about it.
Oh, my God.
Shall we start again?
Shamey, you're here, aren't you?
Hello, yes, I'm Shamey.
I'm here.
I've had five hours sleep.
I'm tanked up on coffee and, like, a two-litre bottle of iron brew.
I've had a massive Haggis Mackay supper, and I'm going to bring a weird energy to this podcast.
I think we're already bringing a weird energy.
I've got COVID, you've got no sleep, and Dave's just Dave Dormer.
I've got this recording here of Seimei earlier today.
I'm just going to put it on.
Hello, I'm Seimei, and I'm about to have some iron brew and some haggis.
Oh my god, I can't believe you said that.
What?
And then...
Right, the two things that get me about that is number one is that there wasn't a single letter R in there.
It's like the one defining thing about my speech impediment.
Number two, I literally just admitted to having haggis and iron brew.
That's literally what I have done today.
No, no, no, you're right.
No, what I was going for there is that before you had the haggis and the iron brew, you were like English.
That was what I was going for there.
Oh, I see.
And now we can hear the effect.
Shall we start this episode again?
Gosh, yes.
This week in Retronauts, Sonic CD more like Sonic Cock Dick.
Christ in heaven.
Okay.
So am I English now?
Yeah, I'm afraid so.
Oh, okay.
And I'm Scottish now.
That's not broad at all.
Anyway, what we're talking about is Sonic CD, and this is a shambolic chaos episode because it's going to be that way.
We are all for different reasons impaired in the brain today.
Yeah, we are.
I don't know what mine is.
It is probably just who I am.
But I've had a... No, there's been a man in my flat all day painting the ceiling.
Yeah, I'm sorry to hear that.
How am I supposed to be a normal person under those conditions?
And plus, we're all Sonic fans.
Yeah, yeah.
You shouldn't listen to them under any circumstances.
But what we're talking about today is because this is a very unusual podcast.
We're talking about a very unusual Sonic game.
Sonic CD, a game that still stands apart from pretty much every other game in the series, I would say, no matter how much they have decided to sort of call back to it.
They've never really managed to recapture it, nor have they particularly tried to, because I mean, let's face it, this is a very divisive Sonic game.
Even I used to dislike this game before I understood it.
That's not to say once you understand it, you will love it.
It's just to say that if you don't understand it and love it, and no offense you're an idiot and I hate you.
Cool.
Well, it's rather timely, isn't it?
Timely?
We are coming up now on a director Naoto Oshima's triumphant question mark.
Return to Sonic the Hedgehog with Sonic Superstars, which will probably be out by the time this episode's out.
You're right, it will.
Yeah, that's weird.
We'll all be disappointed by then.
My word.
So I think the best place to start would be I want to directly ask you.
I'll start with you again, Dave Bomer.
What's your history with Sonic CD?
When did you first encounter this game?
What did you make of it?
That's what I'd like to know.
I can very clearly tell you this.
This is something I remember very, very well.
So Sonic CD at first was just a myth and a legend to me.
You know what I mean?
Nobody had it.
Not in real life did you ever see a Mega CD in your real life.
I've still never seen one.
I'm still not 100% convinced they existed.
But I became really intrigued and started thinking of this as a, Because I'm from the before times, right.
We're going back to before there was internet to hear about it on.
So I heard about it in the... What was it called?
The Sonic 2 Gold Player's Guide or something?
Yeah, yeah.
It was just a paperback book that you get from the school book fair, which I bought because I didn't have a Mega Drive and I wanted to essentially like read sonic, to vicariously play it through words.
Yeah yeah, and i expected this full color you know, screenshots of the entire game, making up maps, but no, it was just diagrams.
It was just like just lines and dots representing rings.
So i still, in fact, were the rings, little x's maybe.
Anyway, i still sat in bed reading this book like i'm reading sonic toon.
No backgrounds nothing, just diagrams of the layout.
But in the middle, to show you how to do the bosses, they had a few colour pages like you would have in a paperback.
Can I interject with something real quick?
Yeah.
I think that in having read Sonic 2, you've sort of got the intellectual edge over the people who played it.
It's just inherently a higher art form.
Everyone's like, oh, did you play Slate 2 on the telly?
Yeah.
No, I read the book.
No, I read the book.
I thought the book was better.
Well, some of these screenshots... Most of these screenshots were of bosses.
Unless...
I'm not thinking of Stay Sonic there.
It could just be this.
No, no, no.
That was the golden guide.
I remember this too.
And then he went, and check this out that's coming soon.
And it was a couple of screenshots from Sonic CD.
Mostly, I think, from the intro.
And they were weird screenshots.
Like one from that bit where the camera kind of goes under his face.
And he was just like, what's this?
And then one of them zipping down the big tall rock.
The sort of star of speed shine behind him.
And it was just like, what am I... There was just no way of telling what we were looking at.
But you knew something special was happening.
And then this is my real, This is what I'm about to tell you is what Sonic CD really truly means to me.
Well, I'm excited to hear it.
When I was a bit old, When I was old enough that people around me were starting to grow out of Sonic.
So, like, 14...
I just... I was in an optional class.
On Wednesday afternoons at my school you had a list of things that you chose at the start of the year and you cycled through them.
Modular studies afternoon.
And I was just in this one kind of computers class where you were just playing that game, where you were a boat discovering America or whatever it was.
On the BBC Micro, which was what we had in our school, that's how old I am.
And...
There were these two kids there who were a year younger than me.
I thought of them as kids because, like when you're 14, that seems so small, the year younger than you.
Maybe they were two years.
But anyway, they were into Sonic and they knew who Richard Elson was.
That's Sonic the comic.
Do you know what I mean?
We were on the same wavelength about Sonic.
And they had Sonic CD and a Mega CD.
And I say they, they were so close as friends.
Like, if you met anyone with this friendship, you'd just assume they were a couple now.
Like Sonic and Tails.
Yeah.
Yeah um yeah, and there kind of was a like a cool, quieter one and a chirpier, bouncier one, that was the thing.
So yeah, actually i never thought of it before, but anyway, we became sonic friends, almost secret sonic friends, like you know.
I wouldn't hang out with them and my other friends at the same time.
Yeah Well, maybe.
And the thing is, yeah, probably because my friends probably started playing football and stuff.
I thought age gap Twitter would have been up your arse these days.
They would.
No, they would.
And anyway, so they lent me the CD just to copy onto a tape, the music.
So to me, it's an album.
Sonic CD is an album that has an interesting visual element to it that is optional.
If you fancy sitting down and playing the interactive visuals to Sonic CD, the album, then you can.
And it wasn't until the PC release in 97, well, I got it in 97, that I ever really played it.
Um...
And this was the EU version had the Japanese soundtrack, right?
Yes, the correct soundtrack.
Superior EU version.
Yes, but I do.
But don't worry, Americans.
I also like the American soundtrack almost as much.
Not as much, obviously.
It's not as good, but almost as much.
Shay, what about you?
Because you must have had a very different experience coming to this game, considering that when it came out, you were a spum.
I just wanted... No, I literally was, I think.
You were some cum.
I was.
Let me tell you.
I excelled at being cum.
Would you say that was the highest point of your life to date?
He peaked early.
He peaked with the balls.
I'm getting fired from Retronauts.
I don't know.
I don't know that that's going in, but it was very funny.
It's going in, Dave.
It's going in.
Oh, wait.
Say that again.
That's what Shay's dad said.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's what I was going to do.
Damn it.
Damn you, COVID.
Actually, I would say I was six.
I was six months old when this came out.
Damn, that's disappointing.
I'm glad you qualified that because six and six months are very different things.
My first exposure to Sonic CD was I bought the Sonic Mega Collection for my GameCube.
Nintendo GameCube.
And this was forbidden fruit.
This was based on an existing love of Sonic, like enjoyment of Sonic.
Oh yes well, because i i, like you know, i'd read the comics and i had bought the the three you know i got.
I saw sonic adventure and i i bought the comics and then i only had the pc for most of my like my childhood.
So, like i, i was getting like the scraps of like the explosive release of, like it was like explosive um release of sonic car, and did you get the one that didn't have the background music What?
No, I didn't.
No.
There was like a whole batch of that that didn't have the music.
Oh my God.
It's true.
It's true.
Stuart!
What?
That's what Abby had.
She's always claimed that her copy didn't have the music.
Yeah.
Oh, my God.
I've got it.
Okay, listen.
There are two explosive releases of Sonic R. This is an exclusive to Retronauts.
Factoid.
If it's got white spine, I think it means no music.
If it's got orange text on the spine, it means music.
Because I've got both.
And it was an error.
It was a mistake.
Of course it was.
Yeah.
So now the mystery has been solved.
You wouldn't do that deliberately.
Yeah.
No.
And let me tell you, that game without the music is not as fun.
The music makes that game.
Also, can I just say factoid is actually an incorrect fact?
Yeah, I know, but it means both things now because the world's a horrible place.
I hate that.
I know, it's awful, isn't it?
The factoid means two things that are completely opposite, but both are in the dictionary as valid.
Yeah.
Isn't that typical of a world that allows Sonic the Hedgehog to exist?
When did knowledge become a burden?
As soon as we started recording these, mate.
As soon as nerds were allowed to keep existing.
So I got Sonic Mega Collection.
So I had a bunch of classic Sonic games.
What I didn't have on there was Sonic CD.
And all we had was we had that obviously spectacular intro and i was enchanted, i was mesmerized.
This game became forbidden.
Fruit sonic cd what's that for the mega cd?
What the hell's that?
You know, like this was like an obscure add-on to a console that i didn't own and you know like that, i'd flopped and so it was all ludicrously expensive and it became something that i thought i'm never going to get my hands on.
This yeah, um.
And then, of course, a couple of years later, Sonic Gems Collection comes in.
I'm like, oh, my God, Sonic CD.
And I sat down and I played it.
It had the American soundtrack on it, no matter where you were unfortunately, because I do prefer the Japanese soundtrack.
But I sat down and I played it and I was like, oh my God, this might be the best Sonic game ever made, just because of the fact you could do the peel out.
That was literally it.
The peel out.
Incidentally, in case anyone doesn't know, you know the spin dash when you press down and you charge up a dash and then release it.
That was also in this game in a really weird nerf form.
But the peelout is if you hold up and hold the jump button, Sonic does the figure eight legs run with a spark.
And then when you release it, he'll go zipping off, but he'll be standing up instead of rolling.
That's what the peelout is.
And it's really cool.
It's a really cool artistic flourish because it's like ribbon.
Red legs turn into a figure eight like an infinity loop.
Like a sort of Mobius strip.
A Mobius strip, yeah.
It's really cool.
It looks great.
Yeah, it does.
Yeah, it's awesome.
So that came and went and I was still like oh man, but the Japanese soundtrack is so much better, and blah blah, blah.
So you'd experienced the Japanese soundtrack through what?
Getting them on Galbadia Hotel?
Just online.
Just hearing it online and also hearing Sonic fans talk about it.
Keep in mind, this would have been after YouTube was a thing.
Right, right.
I didn't know that.
But basically, then I got older, then I joined the Sonic Forum in 2010, which was a bad plan.
Yeah, sounds shit.
I bet you made some real twats on that.
This is how I met Stu.
So that's also where I kind of got into emulation.
Slight problem.
I had a Mac.
An open emu wasn't a thing yet, presumably.
Well, no, it wasn't.
So, of course, Mac emulation is quite substantially further behind.
Yeah, that's what they call emulation in Scotland.
Yes, mate.
Listen, I'll tolerate nay Scottish stereotyping jokes on this podcast.
Let me take a swig of my drink here.
You have to admit, that was a pretty good one, though.
No, that was great.
That was fantastic.
So I had to wait.
It was a glorious day.
It was a broad day to be shaming when finally, Kega Fusion updated and you could emulate Sega CD games on a Mac.
Nice.
So I finally got to experience this alongside Sonic Megamix.
Yeah.
Fan hack, right?
Yeah.
Yeah, and just a bunch of other cool games.
Yeah, it's kind of been this weird forbidden fruit for quite a while and then I finally got to play it and thankfully i found it kind of lives up to the hype.
It's probably my second favorite sonic game after sonic 3.
I think we um i think we have a an agreement on that, me and you because, except for me um, it depends what day it is it's that kind of thing with me.
So i really love this game so much that it really does kind of sometimes veer into like three and knuckles territory.
Now, the the thing is, i think that three and knuckles is by some distance the more spectacular like achievement because of the fact that it is a third and fourth sequel that they could still pull out something like that.
But Sonic CD is just so unique and it doesn't feel like any other platform game or any other Sonic game for that matter.
I'm not going to go into massive detail on how I first encountered it, but it's not dissimilar to Dave, except for me.
I think I saw it in the Sonic yearbook.
The 2002 one, the one with the Elson cover.
I'm reasonably certain there's a page about Sonic CD in there, like a review of it or something.
2002?
No, no, no, 1992.
Sorry, I don't know why I said 2002.
I've got COVID.
Probably why, yeah.
That's probably why.
But yeah, it was either the 92 or the 93 yearbook with the green spines, those ones you're not talking about, those pieces of shit.
I do now that we're not saying 2002.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And there's a page of Sonic CD in there, and the thing about Sonic CD that we haven't mentioned is this game graphically is like the shit.
We are talking the most ridiculous, like color depth for neon, looking like crazy aesthetic, like it's screenshots.
Well, and even if i would say, especially if you're looking at screenshots, like you know, especially if you've not actually played it, you look at these pictures and be like what I've got to get a Sonic Omega CD.
Then
If you haven't played it, it's even more impressive looking for that reason.
Because it looks like no other Sonic game.
Nothing else has that depth of number of colours on the screen.
It's like wild stuff.
Totally unusual alien looking thing.
It sort of reminds me a bit of the movie Speed Racer, because it's just so determined to be otherworldly.
And the detail of it.
It's just incredible.
There's always something going on spectacularly to see.
But I didn't get to play it until... uh an ex-girlfriend of mine lent me these pc version that came out uh in the late mid to late 90s which i think also had the us soundtrack uh it did yeah that was the version that that was the version i had and when i not knowing about this because you know early days of being on the internet everything i just thought the pc version had a different soundtrack i didn't know it was an american one I mean, that sort of would make sense, given that the Sonic & Knuckles collection had different music.
Yeah, that was the sort of thinking, yeah.
But I did eventually play it on again.
Sonic Gems Collection, which was a port of the PC version, with all of the sort of weird menu nonsense that comes with that.
But that was when I first learned to appreciate the game, I think.
Because I remember talking about it in the way that... Okay, I'm going to get on my hobby horse now.
The way people talk about this game online drives me crazy because what they say is just drivel.
And what they say, and you hear this a lot, is they say it's ROM hacky bullshit.
What?
That exact phrase.
Because they don't understand the reason why the levels have been designed the way they are is so that they can be explored.
In fact, you know what?
We should talk about what you do in this game.
Yes.
Because that's crucial.
Do before we talk about that.
Do we want to talk about that introduction?
Because i feel like that is we should talk about a huge part of, like sonic cd's makeup, that first impression that it makes.
Yeah, what it is is.
You got the sega logo and sonic standing next to it doing his finger wiggle and then like a jizz of stars comes out of his finger and he goes.
It's amazing.
I'm just doing a bit.
Go on, Shay.
What were you saying?
I was happy for you to take the reins there.
Okay.
No, no, no.
I'll take the reins.
I've got them in both hands, mate.
The Sonic CD intro is a, I want to say, toy animation?
Well, it's not.
Didn't we find out it's not?
It's not, but it's sort of in their style, right?
It's in their vein of their stuff, isn't it?
Why do I think they did it?
Because everyone calls it Toei Sonic.
For years and years and years, everyone has said Toei did it.
But I feel like a year or two ago they found out.
Oh, actually it was this other company or something.
Jesus, someone really stepped on their toys.
Yay!
Shay, are the little splutterings you're doing under these loud voices you saying the real answer?
I'm trying.
I literally had something up.
Hello.
...telling who did the introduction animation, and it's gone.
It's not there.
Junio.
Junio, that was it.
It was Junio, yes.
And this is because there was a tweet by a man called Iguchi, who presumably people know who is and has to do with Sonic.
And he said naming is actually a good thing for me, but when I was told Toei Sonic, the people of Studio Junio who worked hard on low wages for four months felt sorry for me.
So quote I'm not drawing Toei, it's Junio.
Sorry for the poor explanation.
Okay, so it's not someone from Sonic, that's someone who drew a Sonic.
Called it a Toei Sonic and was corrected.
Well, it's Junio, then.
It's Junio.
Studio Junio, yeah.
Yeah.
Now what this depicts, And let's go with the Japanese version, just because that's what I'm going to consider to be the canon version.
Not that I dislike Sonic Boom.
It's a fine song.
Sonic Boom's a cracking song.
Yeah, it's very good.
But it's not exactly too Sonic Warrior now, is it?
No.
Because what you get here is still probably peak anime sonic, like it's just.
I don't even know how to begin describing this.
Can someone else please do it?
Okay right, so what you have is you have it in terms let's all have a go, that's brilliant sonic.
The hedgehog has always worked better in 2d like i.
I see sorry, What I mean is as a character design.
No no no, Shay.
Shay, it's true in all respects.
Okay, well... Stand by it.
I feel more complicated about it than that mechanically, but as a character design He was designed to be very cartoony, very 2D.
And this is one of those showcase moments that show exactly why he works so well.
It's so expressive and it's so fluid and it's so enchanting to look at.
It is literally just a minute and a half of Sonic running through a field.
And that sounds rubbish.
That sounds so bloody boring.
But he's running along, and there's this... I believe it's New Jack Swing is the genre.
This incredibly upbeat, energetic... I would not call this New Jack Swing, personally.
Not me.
Everybody says New Jack Swing.
Whenever I've gone to look at... It's closer to Eurodance.
Well, this is the thing.
Whenever I've gone to...
Famously, the Sonic CD Japanese soundtrack is described as New Jack Swing.
When I've gone to listen to actual examples of New Jack Swing, which I'm not nearly as familiar with, they don't really resemble it to my ears, except maybe a couple of tracks on there, and I think that's what's happened.
I think there is New Jack Swing on it.
I would say some of the soundtrack is New Jack Swing, but this song in particular, i don't think it is.
I don't know what i would call it, but it doesn't have that's the vibe for it.
It's too fast paced.
I'm absolutely happy to defer to others expertise on that.
Like this is not expertise.
If i'm wrong, please comment and call me.
These are all just pub reckons.
Well no, absolutely if.
If somebody does know, please let us know.
I would love to know.
Yeah um, But yeah.
So this is really kind of like.
I do not know how to describe it.
You just have to listen to it.
Type in, you can do anything, Sonic CD.
Well, hang on.
It's probably going to be played on this episode, so just listen to that.
Okay, just listen to that.
Or just listen to this.
Toot toot, Sonic Warrior.
Something in Japanese.
Toot toot, Sonic Warrior.
I don't know the words.
I must stop.
See you next time.
It's Toot Toot Sonic Warrior always takes a chance.
Toot Toot Sonic Warrior wears no underpants.
That's the playground version.
We were all formulating the line that ends with pants.
That's exactly it.
That was it.
Perfect.
Well, I might as well tell you can poo anything to make it even more childish.
I was nearly there.
I was going to go with wears too many pants.
Not as good.
So it's Sonic running through the field and he's like doing like loop the loops on these really organic tree.
Like these tree branches have formed a really organic loop and he zooms around it and the camera angles are super ambitious.
And these animators know exactly how to squash and stretch and break Sonic's character.
There's a bit like in the ending cut scene where his arms are coming out of the back of his head.
And it is like one of the most iconic poses that Sonic has ever struck.
These guys are experts.
They know exactly what they are doing.
It made me worth noting, as good as this is, you are still watching it in Sega CD O-Vision.
Yes, if you're on the actual Mega CD version, then this is very nasty to look at.
I remember being amazed by it.
It's awesome.
It's just compressed to hell.
Yeah, it's compressed to hell.
It's still awesome, but...
Well, it's not just that it's compressed.
It's something else.
It's that like.
So what it is this?
For some reason, I'm going to step in and do my little version of the intro.
Now, intro animes were a thing i was into.
That's what we called them on the amiga.
Intro animes and the best games that's not true, but the games that excited you the most because they had them, had them and you would oh this, this whole disc is just the anim.
Yeah, let's watch it.
Well, sonic cd though i have, i still don't think i've heard of another game of that era that did this commissioned proper, actual animation.
Like what we have now is the source animation with painted backgrounds, full frame rate.
This amazing animation.
That is not what played on the Mega CD.
What played on the Mega CD wasn't even what you would think of as a compressed version of that.
It wasn't that it was blocky or that flat colours were made out of jumbly messes.
No, it was like and it might be what it is someone had drawn over each frame and you only got to see say, four of them, a second, something like that.
It does look like that, doesn't it?
I don't know the actual tech behind it, but it really does look like someone's drawn over it with pixels.
With pixels and perfectly flat colors where in the original they're painted, and it's quite subtle.
But what but this?
This animation of this little character just running along took what was a good design already, But up till now we'd seen it in two forms, basically.
The sprites in the actual games themselves, which particularly in Sonic 1 were quite sort of geometric.
You know, more than expressive.
And the cover art by Greg Martin, which is just something else.
Again, it was a different interpretation.
And they turned him into this... whirling little guy.
And I think the really clever thing that they did was that they took the impossible shape that was Sonic, which up until now had been.
There'd been a lot of contention about what is this.
Is this a mohawk of spines down the middle of his back?
Is this.
If you look at the sprite in Sonic 2 when he turns over, it's like three rows, but of razor thin Mohawk style spines.
Yeah.
And they turned it into young Goku's hair.
That thing where no, it's about.
It doesn't matter how many spikes there are going off, in what direction.
It's about what would be the best, drawing from this angle, to imply the idea of this spiky mass of the back of his body.
And in doing that, Every frame of this animation is the best drawing anyone had ever done of Sonic the Hedgehog.
And for some reason, no one did it this well again until Sonic Mania.
Well, can I just interject with a probably slightly too broad comment here?
Yeah.
I mean, this would have been the first time we'd seen and I'm going to say it proper Japanese-looking Sonic, not American redrawn Sonic, right.
Yes.
Apart from in the sprites and the games, obviously.
Yeah.
So what you're seeing is and I'm sorry because I like American Sonic, I do, but I'm just saying that what we've got here is a cuter, more appealing character
Yes, he is.
But still cool, because for me, watching this intro and I still get it now and I'm not even slightly ashamed of this I get slightly emotional at the bit where he runs up this mace like a corkscrew, lands on the top of it.
And then he looks out at the Miracle Planet.
Yeah.
And then just starts running up the thing, because of course he does.
That's what he's for, you know.
Do you know the bit that gets me?
It's the most perfectly, like, sonic thing.
The bit that gets me is in that.
And I remember having this reaction to it when I saw it on maybe not on the Mega CD, but certainly on the PC version, where it's a bit better quality but also incredibly compressed.
Yeah.
Same bit.
He runs up.
The twisty pointy mesa thing stands on the top of it and having stood on the top of it, the animators just decided to have him rebalance his weight slightly.
He's been there for a few frames, and then he just changes his pose subtly.
And it is...
One of the best pieces of animation I had seen to that date.
Like the fact of making the choice to do it when there is no need to was like oh my God, it was seismic, seeing that.
It was like, what gets me about this animation?
Like I kind of buried the lead, but what gets me about the animation is the imagery as well.
There are some absolutely spectacular shots that are going to stay with me for the rest of my life.
Like the bit where there is like the U-bend in a river and he runs across it.
And as he hydroplanes, the water scooshes up and creates rainbows.
Like genuinely stunning, just an absolutely gorgeous, imaginative little set piece.
Yeah.
And then he goes up a mountain and you see what he's running towards and the camera pans back and it is Dr Robotnik.
Has chained a planet to a mountain that he has also carved his face on, because he's Dr Robotnik.
Yeah.
And then there's that.
And then Sonic just using an entire mountain as a ramp to get up there, which is like perfectly encapsulating the game's mechanics.
You do that in the game.
Yeah.
If you want to know why we are all so bloody weird about Sonic.
If you like, see these dinky little Mega Drive games and go.
Well, what's the big deal?
Like, you know, this shouldn't inspire the psychosis it has.
It's because we're maladjusted.
It's because we're imagining that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's true.
And, oh, wait, and there was a song!
Whichever version you were playing, there was a song.
Imagine this.
Imagine this.
It's the hall of my primary school, right?
Just picture the hall of your primary school, yeah?
And along comes little Dave.
He's got his great big glasses.
He's got his two big front teeth.
He's a sweet little lad.
I'm standing there pounding my palm with my fist like, yes, mate.
Here we go.
He is carrying with him his tape recorder.
Now, he's not at this school.
This is a thing.
We've gone back for... I don't know why we were at the primary school.
There was some kind of barbecue on.
It was just crested.
They just used it as a venue for something.
But my friend who was like one of my first Sonic-owning you know the game friends his mum was there.
And I was like, she'll get this.
She'll get this.
So I went up to her and I was like, listen to this.
And I played her this song.
Which song the, the song you can.
You can do anything oh, you can do anything.
There was no sonic boom in those days this is when i just had that hour.
You've written version okay, in japanese one.
And she was like, oh okay uh-huh, and she didn't know why i was playing this song, this random song, and i was like it's pretty good for a sonic game, isn't it?
And she was like uh okay yeah, she.
It meant nothing to her, but to me it was clear as day what i was trying to communicate, like no, it's a song, A song with voices.
Would you like to hear about my messed up exposure to this song?
Would you like to get your mind blown right now?
First time I heard this.
First time I heard You Can Do Anything.
Would you like to know what I thought about it?
Would you like to know, Shay?
Would you like to know, Dave?
I would, yeah.
I'm going to tell you what it was.
Less and less as time goes on, but yeah.
Oh, it's the music from Sonic the Hedgehog 2 on the Master System Green Hill Zone.
Oh, you hipster.
Oh, of course you would think, excuse me, excuse me, i had a master system.
I was the opposite of a hipster i was, i had a master system.
Okay yeah, worth mentioning.
Yeah, it is, for some reason, a cover of a random zone tune from the.
Now having a master system.
Now, that's quite hipster.
I genuinely thought you were building towards that being the song you lost your virginity to, or something.
No no no, that was what I'm made of.
That's not true.
That'd be a good one, though, to lose your validity to, wouldn't it?
Let me show you just what I'm made of.
Two seconds later, I wasn't made of much, I'm sorry.
What goes up must come down.
Perfect.
Live and learn, etc., etc., forever, until the heat death of the universe.
Just what I'm made of, Simple curiosity.
Try to take a bite of me.
Let me show you Just what I'm made of Now.
Try to reach inside me.
So that's enough about the intro.
I think next week on Red for North.
Oh, God.
We haven't talked about the game at all, hardly.
But no, what I wanted to talk about, because we're not going to go through this forensically.
There's no point.
No.
There's no need to do that.
It doesn't matter.
This game is not about that.
What this game is about is.
I want to talk about how it's different from other Sonic games in its gameplay essentially,
Now, taking aside the control changes we've already mentioned, like the addition of the super peel-out, and I want
Now, let's make this clear.
What's the story with this being the next game after Sonic the Hedgehog or after Sonic 2?
Because I think it was made after Sonic but came out after Sonic 2.
Is that right?
I'll field this one.
Please field this one.
Go on, Shay.
Okay, so this game came out after Sonic the Hedgehog 1.
Yeah.
That's it.
What happened was that apparently there was a bit of a schism in Sonic Team.
After Sonic 1, I believe Yuji Naka actually went to Nintendo.
He sat in a car outside of Nintendo because he was thinking, I should apply for a job here.
And embezzled the shit out of him.
And what?
What he didn't end up doing that what he ended up doing is he ended up, oh well, he just sat in the car park and didn't go through with it.
Yeah yeah, so far as i know yes, i hope i'm not misremembering but uh, and what he did was, for one reason or another, he went across to america um, where he was part of the sti, which was a sexually transmitted infection, The Sega Technical Institute.
And that's where Sonic Team moved to and that's where they made Sonic 2 and then Sonic 3 and Knuckles.
Meanwhile, in Japan, Naoto Oshima, who was the artist who had designed Sonic, who had created the character himself, was kind of in the director's chair of his own sequel to Sonic 1.
So it's kind of like a split thing.
God, they just immediately out of the gate just beasted, didn't they?
Like, I mean, yes, we got two good games out of it, but like... Accidentally.
How could they possibly... Like, straight out of the gate, they Sagan it up.
Like, Insta-Saga.
Craziness.
And yeah, so it was originally supposed to be a port of Sonic 1.
It was supposed to be like a director's cut of Sonic 1 or a Sega CD.
But then it became its own thing.
And it's kind of like... Yes, so they were developed concurrently.
I believe Sonic 2 released first.
Yes, that's my understanding.
And then Sonic CD, yeah.
It definitely did.
Now what Sonic CD does.
Now Sonic 1 and 2 and 3.
You are about making your way through these stages.
Now, you collect... There is an exploration factor in the fact that you collect rings, collect 50 rings, get into a star post or whatever... or the end of the stage, special stage, get an emerald, move on, you know?
And you know, if you explore there is stuff to find, like you know, one-ups and extra tellies and all that sort of thing.
And part of it is, and the beauty of it to some extent, is that none of it's actually really necessary.
You can finish the game without doing that.
You can just beeline the end if you want to, but if you want to take a different route, you might find something new.
It's part of the beauty of what makes these games so popular for so many years.
Sonic CD not too dissimilar, but there's a lot more emphasis placed on the exploration if you want to get a good ending which, in this game, is substantially more complex than getting seven or six Chaos Emeralds.
Now, That's not necessarily the case, because there is an option to get Time Stones, which are this game's version of the Emeralds.
Now to get those?
I believe it's the same method as Sonic 1, which is to get 50 rings and then jump through a giant ring at the end of the act, or round, as they're called in this game.
Then you will play a special stage, which is a sort of Mode 7, 3D-ish thing, where you bop UFOs.
Well, maybe we'll talk about it later.
It's not that big of a deal.
However, if you're cool like me, what you're going to want to do is you're going to want to get a good future in each zone.
Now, what is that?
What that means is, when you start a zone, you're going to be in the present of said zone, where Robotnik's already been there and, let's face it, he's been messing about.
Because he's been travelling through time and he's gone into the past and he's created what I'm thinking is a Badnik generator.
Is that fair to say?
Yes.
The Miracle Planet apparently, which is this little planet that hangs in the sky that Robotnik has chained.
Apparently, time works differently there.
The flow of time is very... Malleable, I suppose.
Mercurial.
Yeah.
And so...
What you do is you can grab these posts.
You can run past these posts and they spin around and they go... And then...
And, you know, and then you go to the, and what you do is you do back to the future rules.
I think this is so cool.
You run for, you run at top speed for a sufficient amount of time and you get a time warp.
You either go back or forward in time.
Yeah.
And so like you, your goal is to go back to the past.
To play the shit he gave us.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Your goal is to go back to the past and destroy this badnik generator, thus undoing all of Dr Robotnik's hard work.
Yeah.
Now quick person again.
Even though you've just said it, I'm going to give it just a real quick.
Basically say you're in Palm Tree Panic, Act 1, the first level of the game.
Find a past signpost, go fast enough to go into the past, find the badnik generator, you're done.
You can leave that level, right?
But you don't have to.
You don't have to leave that level because, if you want to, you can then find a future signpost, go into the future.
Get back to the present again.
Find another future signpost, go into the future.
And then you're in the good future, which you made.
You made that happen.
If you want to, you can go into the future before that and look at the bad future.
And these are all different.
They're all completely different.
The music's different.
The graphics are different.
Aesthetically different.
And the level layouts are a little bit different as well.
This winds me up so much talking about this game, right?
Because the thing is, is that you're smart cookies, Retronauts listeners.
You're sitting there like hang on a minute.
Hang on a minute.
If all you need to do is go back into the past and destroy the badnik generator, then you don't need to go to the future, do you?
You don't need to go to the future at all.
So that wow, like and i've heard this a lot the bad future and the good future completely superfluous, they don't matter.
And this, to me, is the difference between playing a game for the joy of playing a game yeah, and playing a game so you can check it off of a checklist.
Yeah, thank you.
Yeah yeah, all right, it's also.
It's also the difference between like, being a cool guy and being a knob.
And don't get me wrong, I've done it.
I've done that from the other perspective.
I've been on the other side of that paradigm.
There's been loads of games that it's like okay, I don't have a particular interest in playing this, but I feel that I ought to because it's so popular or because it's so big or important or whatever.
I get it.
But at the same time, you absolutely have to have the ability to go into the future, because otherwise, what the hell are you doing it for?
Yeah, like you have to be like because you go into a level.
If you hit the future, it's a bad future.
You have to be able to see the effects that your actions are having, otherwise they become meaningless.
Otherwise and, i think, completely unhinged from context, i want to ask that the world think about this in slightly different terms, in the same way that you just did about something that matters a bit less but i think is connected to this, which is Actually, we've made kind of a mistake that I see everyone make.
Whenever there's a review of this game or whatever, and they're always like so, there's the present, there's the past, there's the good future and the bad future.
And if you go on this sign, you go to that one.
If you go on that sign, you go to that one.
It's much simpler to think of it like there's the level and you can go into the past or the future.
I think it's inherently more easy to understand if you frame it like this.
There's past, present, and future.
You're in the present. you can go to the future.
It's horrible because Robotnik's taken over the world.
Yeah.
But if you go into the past, where it's all lovely and flowery and naturey, and then you break his machine and you go into the far future, then now it's changed.
You were there before the dark, bad, horrible future.
That's not there anymore.
You saved the world.
It's beautiful there.
Now the music is like the heaven version of that music.
It's like utopia, dystopia.
You need that there.
It's so good.
It's so good.
And do you know what it does?
It reflects the ideas that they were having at Sega, because similar things went on in Knights, didn't they?
Depending on how you treated the Knightopians.
You could create different versions of the world that way as well.
It's a Sega-y idea.
And the music and the graphics in the background would change.
Yeah.
Yeah, let's not talk about that load of old shite, though.
Just kidding.
I know Shay loves that game.
I'm just messing with him.
Sorry, Shay.
I don't want it.
Even though it's my real opinion.
So what it essentially boils down to for me is this game becomes something of a I don't even know what to call it how important this game is to me for this reason.
I don't know how to describe it.
It is like a game.
I point to and I can honestly say and I hate saying this because I know how it sounds
I don't mean it quite so definitively as it sounds.
But I think there's a degree to which it's kind of like if you get this, if you understand this game, if you appreciate this game, we're probably going to be able to click in terms of what we like in games.
Because something I love about in games is superfluous detail.
And I don't just mean in terms of graphics obviously, but like, as we've mentioned, the whole idea that you can go to the bad future just to check it out and go, oh shit, like and get this completely different music and experience, you know.
To me, that's not even scratching the surface of the pointless stuff you can do in this game, which you should want to do because it's fun.
Just because something isn't necessary doesn't mean it isn't worth including.
In fact, it makes it almost more worth including.
A game like this.
I don't know what the development time for this was, but it feels like it was just polished and polished because
If you want to boil it down to essentials, going to the past, destroying the enemy generator and then finishing the level.
There's also a Badnik projection, a Metallix projection.
Metallix, sorry, Metal Sonic.
Metallix is what he was called in the UK, Sonic the Conic, which I believe Dave has some familiarity with.
I've read it before.
You're aware of it.
So that's what my head goes to, because that's what he was to me.
The Metal Sonic.
There's a projection almost acting like a scarecrow to keep the animals away.
Now, you can find these and destroy them.
There's one in every level, I believe, in every past.
But they don't do anything.
All it does is make loads of animals appear.
And that's got no actual practical effect.
You can still get a good future without doing it.
But don't you want there to be loads of animals everywhere?
Exactly.
You're making the world a better place.
Wouldn't it be nice if there were loads of animals everywhere, right?
I mean... There is just... There are like areas of the game... Areas of levels where...
You can almost briefly understand why people describe it as air quotes ROM hackish because you've got rings embedded in walls.
There are platforms you just cannot get to.
There are platforms where you climb up there and there's just nothing really up there.
And I can see why people would dislike that, because they've been conditioned...
To need everything to have a specific and singular function, right?
It annoys me a bit there.
Well, do you know why the rings are embedded in the walls?
Yes.
Cool.
Moving on.
No, it's well for the listener's benefit.
It's because basically, Sonic buried them there for the winter.
The harsh, harsh winter.
They're burrowing creatures.
Yeah, no, go on, sorry.
There are like four layers to every level.
You know, each level calls into memory basically like four layers.
And the rings have to stay in the same place on each layer.
So if you see a ring hidden in a wall, that's not a mistake.
No.
That's like, oh, which time periods do I need to be in to collect that ring?
Yeah.
But this is the thing.
Again, for that to matter, you've got to want to collect the rings.
And I want to collect the rings.
Yeah.
Like, some people are just going to be like, oh, don't need them.
Doesn't matter.
I mean, if you want to play this game and just get to the end of each level and then go, that sucked, then you know be my guest, but you're doing it wrong.
Well, this is like Stu.
You have previously described classic Sonic games as a sandbox, which I think is.
I think the sandbox is accurate.
I stand by that.
Yes, that's the perfect definition of them to me.
This one is the sandboxiest.
If you want to rush from the beginning to the end of the game, you will actually encounter very little resistance.
You will get there in like under two minutes tops, under a minute usually for each level.
I would say only the final two zones start to really put up resistance in terms of traps and enemies and things.
Yeah.
But this is the thing about it.
You can absolutely do that if that's what you want to do.
But the thing about Sonic CD that makes it so magical to me is not wanting to do that.
It is wanting to go back and destroy the Bannock Generator.
And one of the criticisms that's often levelled at this game is that it is there's no room to build speed.
There's plenty of room to build speed because you need the speed to time travel, of course.
Yeah, I mean I guess we could point to the shitty Sonic Origins version where you can just drop dash left and right and just warp, because they ruined it essentially.
But the thing is for me, those levels are constantly.
They are packed with so many ways to build speed.
Yeah, plus there are dedicated secret areas that are made for you to get a loop going.
Exactly, exactly.
There are literally parts where it's like just a loop with two springs either side so that you just bounce back and you can just take your hand off the controller.
Collision Chaos has that, yeah.
Yeah, Collision Chaos is my favourite Sonic level.
Collision Chaos is the one that teaches you that, isn't it?
Yeah.
I mean, Palmtree Panic is not that hard to get speed up anyway, but then Collision Chaos is the one that teaches you hey, if you look around you might find another line, so don't just rely on the first one you find right after getting the signpost, you idiot.
It's...
Collision Chaos is so It is the ultimate in that Sonic idea of building speed and using that speed to jump higher and further by using parts of the terrain as ramps.
It is the ultimate Sonic level for that.
There is so much verticality in that level.
And all over the game, it's just that.
The speed and the verticality and the interest in the level design, and the fun isn't in running from left to right.
It's like what you do is you see the big half pipe and you roll into a ball and you like jump up and down the half pipe.
You like swing like a pendulum around this half pipe and you're maintaining your speed.
Yeah.
Maintaining your speed and getting that time warp.
Easy peasy, mate.
It's not about running.
It's, The more you know about how classic Sonic's physics work, the more fun you will have with Sonic CD.
It is the Sonic fans Sonic game.
I mean, I'm going to be reasonable with this because I love this game.
You know, I do.
I understand this game and what it's going for.
I'm not going to pretend this is the easiest Sonic game to get into, because it's clearly not by design.
I say get into.
But what it's asking of you is a very different mindset to what you get in Sonic 1 2, 3 and Knuckles.
And I get people not clicking with it immediately.
I mean, I know for a fact I didn't.
I remember going on that Sonic forum and saying, yeah, it's rubbish.
It's stupid.
It's just kind of dumb and boring and bland and being told off.
And then later going back to it and being like, oh, I see.
Now I get it.
Sorry, everyone.
So I don't love Sonic CD.
Oh, shut up, Dave.
No, I do.
I do love Sonic CD.
But I can't play Sonic CD.
I haven't had the time to spend on it.
That has allowed me to get to the point that someone who really knows it and plays it properly is at.
So to me it's kind of frustrating because I do get what it's doing, but only because I've been told
Yeah.
In terms of actually playing it.
I find it a very frustrating experience, but I know that if I was to keep at it, it's kind of the only get-good Sonic.
And there's a downside to that, because So Sonic 3 and Knuckles, which we've already, you know, rhapsodised about at length.
That game rewards basic play and it super rewards complex play and really thinking about it and exploring.
Sonic CD kind of doesn't reward surface play.
It's frustrating if you don't know what to do.
In a sense though, it does have the time stones route you can take.
If you want to get the good ending well yeah no no, if you just want a good ending, i'm talking about more, more in terms of like so.
So, for example for i was, i was having a go on it today to get ready for this and just remind myself, because the thing is, i've played this and i've finished it, but i probably got the good ending as well back in the pc days, but it was so long ago.
Yeah, sonic 3 and knuckles for me, moment to moment is joy, so i play that more now.
If sonic cd, if i played that as much, it would also be as enjoyable, it would appear, but it currently isn't, and so what i find and therefore i'm presumably speaking kind of on behalf of people who don't get it and they're like well, i don't like this one is the way the game teaches you to play it and get good at it is by saying no to you a lot, in a way that the, the megadrive sonic games didn't.
So, for example, there was a bit that i was playing earlier today.
It was the uh, the water level, and uh yes, thank you.
I don't even know which love like, what names which, and um, So water level.
I'm in the water.
I see a bubble.
Every Sonic player knows you go, and you go, and you get the bubble and you're fine.
You never know when the next one's going to be, so get it even if you're not drowning.
So off I went to get it.
Something, and I don't know what, because I haven't explored the level enough to learn it pushed me away from this bubble.
A current started up a fan somewhere must have turned on and i was pushed away from this bubble and i'm like oh, so now i'm.
I'm like well, i'll go back and get it.
And i couldn't.
The game was saying no don't, you can't.
So i tried going over different ways and no.
So i'm like okay, do you know what?
I'm gonna drown.
I'll go somewhere else.
I found a spring.
This spring saved my life.
I went up out of the water, i went really high into the air and here's what i found.
So I'm standing on a ledge and there is a wall in front of me that is taller than I can jump.
It's a really tall wall.
But I can tell that I could get on top of that if I could come up with a way.
Now, on the other side of this wall to me is the origin point of one of those things that's a dangerous spiky ball on the end of a chain going round in a big circle.
And it can go behind the wall that's in my way.
So the effect that you have is it goes up on the side of the wall I can't reach and down on the side of the wall that I can reach.
Sorry, not a spiky ball.
It was a platform.
Yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about.
And so I can jump on this platform.
I spent about five minutes trying to get good enough at Sonic the Hedgehog to get on this platform because of course it's coming down in its arc, in its circle.
And as soon as I've jumped on it, it disappears off again behind the wall, and I'm pushed off.
So I'm like, okay, whatever.
I know what to do.
I time it right, I jump up and from there I can get on the ledge that's halfway up, from which I can jump to the top of the thing I'm trying to get to.
Which worked.
That happened.
Now I've got another tall wall in front of me, but...
I've already found out that this platform that's going around on the chain has a button on it.
It's a pressure button.
And when I stand on it, that wall disappears like a Star Trek door or like a Star Wars door, the fast one in the Death Star.
Yeah.
But I can't because the platform, it's coming and I have to jump.
And then when, so now it's gone.
And now, but then if I jump on the button and the door opens, I jump on it and it closes.
And I went, do you know what?
Forget it.
The game said, no, I'm going.
And that is the frustration of not being good enough at Sonic CD.
But I know if I get good enough at Sonic CD that I can find out what to do there.
So this was essentially a public admission of your own ineptitude.
Yes!
And it is harder to get aptitude in this game than it is in Sonic 3 & Knuckles.
But I'm guessing that if I get it, it'll feel great.
Well, that's not something I would dispute.
It definitely is.
It's a game for only the super way-past-call people.
But that's the beauty of it, right?
People who love the game.
It's because you've worked hard on it and been rewarded by being great at this game now.
You put in the... No, I wouldn't even call it work.
I mean, it's a matter of perseverance.
And the thing is, when you're doing it, you get to listen to some amazingly awesome music and look at some amazingly awesome graphics.
It doesn't feel like work to me.
Listen, I should have... I'm going to... Sonic CD, the album... is my Sergeant Pepper or whatever.
It's like the childhood album that I can't believe.
It's so good.
And the fact that all the adults around me aren't into it is ridiculous.
And the only difference between those classic albums is that proper adults are still not into it.
And that's not fair.
Yeah, it's horrifying.
You're just like, hey, listen to this.
I don't know things.
I'd like to listen to Simple Minds, actually.
Oh, my God.
Can't even get Chris to listen to it.
What?
Really?
He likes Transformers.
That's ridiculous.
It's like, Chris, listen to this.
And it's like turning his nose up at it.
And I'm like, Chris, listen to this.
And it's like, you got the touch.
You got the power.
And he's just like, yes, mate.
To be fair, that is a fucking cool song.
Yeah, it is a cool song.
His point is it's a game soundtrack, and so he should listen to it while playing the game.
Which, fair enough.
Nonsense.
But the thing is, You Got the Touch is a much better song than Transformers the movie is a film.
I'd probably rather listen to the album than that.
Yeah, it's true.
I made a bad decision in comparing it to that, didn't I?
After all the work is done, yeah.
Like I say, it's a Sonic fan's Sonic game, and that's both a blessing and a compliment and kind of a criticism.
Because it's like, Sonic 3 and Knuckles I don't really have the same qualifiers for.
I think it's much, much easier to get into.
It's like, what's the premise of Sonic 3 and Knuckles?
You stop Robotnik, right?
What's the premise of Sonic CD?
Well, have you ever seen Back to the Future?
And it's, you know, it's just from the word go, it is a more complicated proposition.
I totally understand that.
It's just that what you have here is you have a genuinely unique take on the same basic mechanics.
That is often dismissed for not being identical.
Yeah.
That's where my frustration lies, because what Dave has said I find entirely reasonable.
Yes, absolutely.
What I don't like, and this is not anything exclusive to Sonic CD, is that I don't get this.
It's the game's fault.
There's nothing wrong with not getting something, but I don't get this.
I've got to come up with a reason that makes it not my problem.
Yeah.
And you see this a lot with many, many games.
Like I don't like this and that's okay, but I don't like this and I'm a genius and the arbiter of all taste and distinction, so I now need to think of a reason why I can slag it off to everyone else.
And that's what happens with this game a lot, with this whole rum-hacky criticism which the instant anyone says it, I just mute or block them.
Because you know you're never going to have a decent conversation with someone who says that.
I think the reason why it's so frustrating is because, like, haven't we all done it at some point?
Of course.
I used to do it constantly.
Yeah, and we recognise what a stupid thing that was to do.
The thing is, is that there is a lot of the time... They probably still do it.
Well, yeah.
There's a lot of the time that I kind of I recognize why you would get petulant about a game right.
Because there's a lot of games that are very, very popular that I just don't see the appeal of at all.
And it's like okay, I can say huh, it's not really for me, but that doesn't really reflect kind of the alienation that you feel.
Everybody's in going, oh man, look at this amazing thing.
And I'm sitting there on the sidelines, like looking at what I think looks a bit shit.
And it's like, I don't really get it.
I don't see it.
That's frustrating.
That's alien.
I hate that, yeah.
And what I sometimes do is I sometimes get a bit petulant.
I sometimes get a little bit like okay, it's not just that this is bad, it's that you guys are idiots for liking it.
And as I'm trying to wind them up because I don't like it.
And I do that because I'm fallible and I'm human and sometimes it's a bit funny.
And I reckon that a lot of us do it.
I mean, I would be lying if I said I didn't like winding people up.
But the thing is, is that when the shoe's on the other foot and it happens to me, it's unacceptable.
Yeah, I agree.
I'm with you on that.
There are many things in life that I think I should have free reign to do.
But when those same things are done to me, I dislike it.
In fact, let me put this more simply.
I want to do unto others, but not have them do unto me, unto myself, the things that I do unto others.
Well, the thing is, I don't think that's unreasonable.
I want to be able to sew.
I never, ever want to reap.
I hate reaping.
I'm just going to hold my hands up and say it.
I love sewing.
I think it's great.
I'm happy as Larry when I'm sewing.
But when it comes to reaping, no thank you.
There are experiences where I didn't want to do them and I was like no, and was getting petulant about it.
Not necessarily games, but games, books, whatever.
No, TV series, no.
And then just someone who isn't an idiot says it's good.
Do you know what I mean?
Because for everything that's good, there's loads of idiots on the internet saying it's good.
So you can pick and choose.
If you're in a grumpy mood about something, you can pick them and go like oh, these people are stupid and they say it's good.
But when someone has just talked me into it like oh, all right fine, I flipping, will watch Squid Game then, or something like that.
And it's like, oh, now I've had joy.
Times when you actually do put the effort in and do the thing.
There is also what they call a hyperversion, isn't there?
Where everyone's like, oh my god, this game's actually amazing.
And you're like, I don't care.
There are too many good things.
Therefore, no.
That's how I got with Breaking Bad.
And then I watched it and I was like, oh, that's the best television program I've ever seen.
Oh, I know.
I'm on that right now with good omens.
I can't watch good omens because of how annoyingly into good omens people are.
It's so frustrating, isn't it?
It's so annoying people enjoying themselves.
You're like oh, come on, i'm not familiar with the thing that you like.
I feel frozen out, therefore it's bad and you're wrong and stupid.
Yeah oh, you like david tennant.
No, i like david tennant.
What am i all about?
Yeah, I think this has turned into an interesting psychological deconstruction.
But it's so easy to fall into that.
And when you push through it and you do the thing that they're saying and there's such depth there, it is very clear to me that Sonic CD is one of those.
Now the problem is and this is a problem I don't think I'm good enough to get there.
I just don't, because it's been decades and i can't do it.
I can't look because i can't learn a layout and you have to in sonic cd.
You have to know.
I don't think you do, i really don't think you do.
I challenge that.
I just okay.
I know where you're coming from.
The only thing you need to know at all is where the thing is, the generator is.
But you don't.
You can just find that.
Just go and look for it.
What you need to find is a line that lets you go back in time.
And there are plenty of those in every level.
You just got to find them.
And I am still at the point where... But that's what I mean.
I can't go through time.
I just can't.
You're going through time right now, Dave.
Yeah.
What you're saying about hyperversion and all that.
I find that very.
I just want to touch on that.
I think it is very human to feel alienated.
Because the root of the problem in a lot of these cases is that you want to like the thing.
You want to be involved with this.
But also, for me, it's like there's so often I'm just a misery guts.
But also I know that I have undiagnosed brain worms.
That honestly makes getting into new things like yeah well, it's a pain in the ass, isn't it getting into new things?
Who wants to do that?
Like some days it takes genuine emotional energy.
Some days I would literally rather sit and stare at a wall than do a new thing.
That's why kind of like I have a wheelhouse that I stick very rigidly to.
I would like to expand my horizons a bit, but you know, it's, it's genuinely difficult.
And I do think I have like some kind of brain worm that needs looked into.
I don't, I mean, I think that's.
I feel that way very strongly because, like I like to, I want to stay on top of gaming and, as a thing,
And like, for example, I bought Final Fantasy 16 a few weeks ago or whatever it was, because I genuinely thought it looked great.
I'd heard great things about the combat and I really thought it looked like a fun game.
I have not even gone into the first cave in that game.
And there's a cave on the first screen.
And I have not just had the gumption to just go upstairs, sit down, pick the controller up and play the goddamn game for any amount of time.
Because every time I do, I just kind of think to myself oh Jesus, I'm just going to play something I've already played.
Well, for me it's that I already played Final Fantasy XIV and a lot of my friends did and still do absolutely adore it.
They are never done singing its praises.
And i played it.
And when i say i played it, i mean i played it for 70 hours at least.
I played a good chunk of that game and i couldn't get into it, for whatever reason.
And what it means is that when, like everyone's like singing the praises of all these new final fantasy 14 stuff is, i'm sitting there like What do I do?
Like, you feel alienated.
You feel like you're on the outside of this thing.
It's interesting, isn't it?
You feel like you're watching your friends have fun from the other end of the park fence.
I like that because I like Destiny 2 and I guarantee that every Destiny 2 trailer that drops, there's like a million people looking at that, going what the hell is going on.
Like...
But the thing, Final Fantasy XVI was made by a lot of the same staff.
To Devil May Cry 5, right?
To Devil May Cry 5, which I loved, but also to Final Fantasy XIV.
And I'm kind of sat there like, okay...
Do I want to put myself through this?
I am kind of curious, kind of interested.
They said it was like Game of Thrones, which killed a lot of my interest.
But do I want to put myself through this and then find out that I hate it and then have to come back and watch everybody raving about this game that they love?
And I'm just like
I don't like this.
You know, that's exhausting.
I don't like that.
So to the Sonic CD people, to the Sonic CD haters... Go to hell.
Swivel.
This is my olive branch.
This is my olive branch.
You can't see it, but it's my arm and I'm doing a gesture with my finger.
No, just what I would like to say is you're all definitely really stupid and I hate you.
Yeah.
No, it's, you know, I get it.
I totally get it.
You know, I've been in that situation myself.
It's just, I don't like, like what Dave's saying is that like, like that makes sense to me.
He's given it a go and he's like, I'm just not getting it.
He's given it the old college try.
And I'm not going to stop.
I'm never in my life going to stop playing this game.
It's Sonic CD.
So I'll get it one day.
You haven't fed me any lines about this.
You haven't fed me any stuff that is just provably, demonstrably untrue.
Yeah, exactly.
And that's what frustrated me about the conversation around this game.
Yes.
And to this day, unfortunately.
By the way, the reason I brought that up is because I'm hoping that there are people who have not yet had the trustworthy, non-idiot people say no, you really should give this one a go.
It will bring joy if you get deep enough into it.
And I think that you two are that voice.
Because like...
They know you're right about Sonic 3 and Knuckles.
I mean, I had a friend who didn't like Sonic CD.
Had.
Had a friend.
No, I still have them as a friend.
I mean, my friend didn't like the game.
And I was over at their house.
They were doing whatever.
And I was playing on their Xbox.
I was playing Sonic CD.
And sort of by seeing me playing it, they now like it.
Because they're like, oh, that's what you do.
I mean Sonic CD.
We've talked a lot about its reception, which I think is important, but it's not the game, so to speak.
We've talked about how you play the game and rather than go forensically into detail on every single stage, which we're not going to do, it.
I mean, we could do, but I don't want to.
I think we should talk about some of the details in the stages, like some of the smaller details that stand out or things that we just like about the game.
I think that would be a fun thing to do.
I just want to talk about a few of my favourite little flourishes.
Number one, just look at the backgrounds.
Yes.
Anywhere?
Anywhere.
Anyway, there is a special stage where you are running around and Jupiter is rising out of the clouds.
There is one where there is an entire enormous lovely, luscious like acropolis, with like a big, like clock on it and like waterfalls.
Oh, the clock!
This is.
We found this out in our Sonic the Comic, the Podcast, Patreon streams.
Yeah, this random background on one special stage has a multi-tiered island with like waterfalls, like a wedding cake island.
It's gorgeous, an ancient city with a giant clock as its centerpiece, because this is the world where time something something, something brilliant.
It's so good.
Um, there's like little bits, like there's an angel that is hidden away.
Very very, it's a very well hidden.
Yeah, that's in the, in quotes, i want to say it might be wacky workbench.
Actually it's wacky workbench yeah, and it just isn't it so great.
There's a level called wacky workbench.
That sounds like a piece of educational software, doesn't it?
But like Dolling Kingsley's wacky workbench.
There's... Learning can be fun!
No, it can't.
Stop lying.
That's it.
Sorry, go on.
There's a bit where you're in the background and you're whizzing around these loops and then you crash out through a wall and there's a Sonic silhouette, like in the old Wile E Coyote cartoons.
Oh, yeah!
That's great.
But my favourite detail, my favourite favourite, favourite little detail is like all of the bad music, bad future music are bops.
They are so menacing.
Like there's like the palm tree panic.
The first one is just remixed screams and that sounds edgy, but like the energy of it really sells it, because this is like like this is now a machine world.
You know, all the animals have been turned into machines.
Yeah, and it's really cool.
But my favorite little detail is in the final level metallic madness, i believe yes, where just there is a call back to the.
The japanese main theme of the game is called you can do anything, it's like, and it ends with if you try, you can do anything.
Yeah, and And there's just this little refrain kind of murmured in the background of a metallic madness bad future.
That goes, you can't do anything.
So don't even try.
And it's like I love that so much.
It's oh, it's so cool, it's so cool.
I'm personally like, when it comes to like bits and moments in this game, i think some slightly bigger stuff that we should talk about is this was the first appearance of amy amy rose right yeah, or at least in the game.
Uh no no, it is.
Oh, she turns up in yeah, She turns up at the beginning of Collision Chaos.
Hearts fly out of her head and she follows Sonic around.
She's not exactly the most developed character at this point, or now.
And then Metal Sonic smashes through a set of unbreakable spikes, grabs her, she screams and then he flies off.
There's your motivation.
Yeah.
I also want to briefly talk about the boss battles in this game, because they are very different to what you'd come to expect from the series.
But that's kind of because at this point it hadn't really been codified what this series was.
Had it.
Really.
It's only because Sonic 2 was essentially Sonic 1 again and sorry, don't argue, it was that it became.
That's what Sonic is.
But Sonic CD's bosses are... in some instances, just seem like a joke.
And I don't mean, like, the bad kind of joke.
I mean the genuinely funny kind of joke.
Like the first one that you fight is Robotnik in this sort of tall, slightly imposing-looking machine with two bumpers on the front and spikes for feet.
And if you have any ability whatsoever, you're going to be invincible. by the time you get there.
So Robotnik drops in, gets absolutely pasted immediately, and then panics and flies off.
And I genuinely believe that's an on-purpose joke.
He comes down in this quite big, scary-ish looking machine, and you just can't be hurt by it.
I love that.
I'm glad you can't.
I had a bit of trouble with it.
Honestly, i have no ability.
But no, what i do really like about that is that the the bumpers stop you from hitting it, and then you're like no, what do i do?
But when you do hit it, you destroy his bumper and then there's nothing he can do anymore.
You could just you've destroyed one bumper.
Now you get the other one.
Now you hit him on the head and he's dead.
That's it.
Because they're not hit the guy eight times.
Yes, figure out the way to hit the guy once.
That's a little more.
Um, When I say cerebral, that's the wrong term, but there's a bit more to them.
The second one is a precursor to Sonic Spinball.
It's an actual pinball thing where you have to climb up the table and it's either the easiest thing ever or it's an unbelievably frustrating.
If you could have only seen how long I spent just trying to get on that today.
I've played this game a hundred times and I've had sessions on that boss that have taken me minutes and minutes and minutes.
Okay, because sometimes it just doesn't work where you want it to.
Yeah, but then my favorite boss and i'm not gonna talk about all of them, but my favorite boss in this game is one where you're running on a conveyor belt yes, and you're.
The friction you're creating by spinning this conveyor belt is destroying by overheating and melting the this cage thing that Robotnik is standing in, and as it melts and it gets hotter, he starts doing a little oh shit, oh shit, oh shit, little dance and it's like so funny and it's so memorable and I just love it.
I really do.
I guess one of the few criticisms I can give is that the final boss in this game is just kind of not really that imposing at all, but then again it's like Whatever, you know, it doesn't really matter.
It's just meant to kind of be a breezy thing because that's not the challenge.
Well, the big climax, set piece of the entire game, although I do want to say, just as a point of interest, the Japanese version of the boss theme has some really weird mixes in there.
It's got like a song by a funk band named Xavier featuring Bootsy Collins Work That Sucker to Death.
It heavily samples that.
I believe it samples a bit of Bodmarm.
Come on now, work that sucker to death.
Genuinely a jam.
And then the Muppet Gonzo starts talking in the background, but nobody can hear what he's saying.
But the main set piece, the main attraction of this game... And Tiny Tim, who did not die.
I can't do Gonzo's voice.
One bold, brainy, and cold-hearted.
And Tiny Tim, who did die.
Okay, Dave, that was remarkable.
That was an incredible impression.
It was good.
But of what?
Gonzo?
Or the voice in the background of Sonic CD?
They're the same.
Yeah, that was the point you were making.
But, of course, the main attraction is the race against Metalix, or Metal Sonic, if you're nasty.
But, um...
Yeah, it's just a race.
But a special race.
There's a reason it's kind of become iconic.
This is the thing.
I keep saying this is the thing, sorry.
You are being chased by Robotnik.
Five hours sleep and a bottle of iron brew.
I'm fine.
You're being chased by Robotnik with a big laser.
You hit that laser, you die.
You have to keep up with Metal Sonic, because if he reaches the finish line first, a door comes down and you can't finish and you'll get zapped by Robotnik.
But the thing about this race, that is just You're about to say this thing that I've currently died for about the 70th time while talking to you is going to be.
Are you going to say it's really easy?
No, no, no, no.
It's actually really difficult.
It's not easy at all.
It's not easy at all, because you have to know, kind of like, how to use Sonic's physics to their fullest.
It's genuinely very close a lot of the time.
But it is the only bloody time in the entire series that a Metal Sonic is actually a Metal Sonic.
It's actually behaving like a doppelganger of Sonic the Hedgehog.
All the rest of the time it's just fighting him in a one-on-one arena or transforming into an enormous dragon or shooting lasers at him.
And it's so bizarre to me that the impetus behind the character of Metal Sonic was just discarded after one go.
Somebody forgot Sonic 2 on Mars Systems at Silver Sonic.
Whoops, another clanger from the Shaymeister.
No, isn't that the one that has the little hook claw?
Yeah.
Yeah, he just comes out and he swings a hook claw at you.
Yeah, but he still turns into a ball and does Sonic stuff.
So does Silver Sonic.
You know what I mean?
I've got COVID, forgive me.
I'm Scottish, forgive me.
Yeah, I don't know.
It's something that I feel is tragically underutilised, as the idea that Metal Sonic would behave like some kind of Metal Sonic, i agree.
I mean i, and also with this is the peak metal sonic design, in my humble opinion yes uh, oh god, yeah.
And the fact that he is kind of a sonic, that kind of cheats like he flies, he turns electric and he'll fly through spikes that you can't go through yeah, it makes it feel like a rival.
Yeah, you know, it gives sonic a rival, doesn't?
He also do the finger thing when you he does cool.
Yeah, He does the kind of Sonic wink thing.
Sonic's like, hey, that's my thing.
That's my thing that I do.
I feel like I'm going to explode here.
Why was he homesawed there?
I don't know why he was homesawed.
I don't know why he was homesawed.
So Sonic CD, the race scene is famously kind of iconic.
There's a reason it turns up in lots of fan art.
There's a reason it gets homaged so heavily, you know.
The music, for one thing, is probably my favourite track in the game.
You know the bad future Stardust Speedway.
I'm reasonably sure that plays regardless of which future you've actually achieved.
I could be wrong.
Like, that's the race music.
I might be wrong about that.
Yeah, I believe so, yeah.
Yeah, it's awesome.
And the version in Sonic Generations is even more awesome, I think.
I love that little thing it does in the cutscene, where it just drops the base out while he goes over there and then it goes back.
Really good little remix there.
Now, one thing I want to talk about, because I'm coming towards the end of this, I think, and people are going to be complaining about that because yes, there's a lot to talk about this game, but we're not here to forensically examine it okay.
This game... Now...
I've been thinking about this because there's no way that this could possibly be true.
But this is one of the earliest games I can think of that has unlockables that saved the cartridge.
Oh, yeah.
Because this game has a time attack mode which is very full-featured compared to anything that came before.
You can choose any level.
Every time you get is saved.
And there's also an overall time.
They all add up to that overall time, every act.
Can I just ask, is this the game that the phrase time attack comes from?
I believe it probably is, but I don't know that for a fact, so I'm not going to pretend that I know that for a fact.
It was when I first heard it, but that doesn't mean anything.
Like, the same way that I feel there must be other games that have unlockables, but this is the first one I can think of.
So if there are others, please tell me, because I genuinely want to know, okay?
I'm sure there are, and they're just escaping me at the moment.
But what I mean specifically is unlockables that save to the cartridge, not stuff like the second quest in Mario Bros.
That doesn't count, okay?
Anyway, in fact, I think that maybe Mario World created this, but whatever, whatever.
It doesn't matter.
The point is...
You play these levels in time attack mode where the aim has changed.
The aim is now to get from left to right as fast as possible.
Totally changes the way you look at the levels.
But you can always play them over and over again to shave down your time, shave down your overall time.
And as your overall time shrinks, as it reaches certain thresholds, you unlock things in the main menu.
You unlock something called the DA garden.
You unlock a music player. and some other stuff.
I forget what it is.
But it's just a very cool piece of added value.
Because I think this probably would have heavily popularized speedrunning.
Right?
I mean shaving your time off, seeing just how many fractions of a second you can completely get a level quicker.
That's a very compelling thing, especially when it's tied to unlocking content.
I think it must have played a part in the origins of speedrunning.
It just must have.
I can't remember any other game that gave you this option to do, like get better at it faster.
Because Sonic 1 and Sonic 2 also measure your time, obviously.
Oh, yeah.
So the incentive is there.
They don't save them.
No, and give you stuff.
And there's no dedicated mode for it with leaderboards.
And not only does this do it, but I believe it also measures in fractions of a second as well, which the other games don't.
So it's very precise.
And it's just another bit of value layered onto the top of this very expansive very, very good video game.
Yeah.
And I don't know what else I can really say about it right now.
It's just well up there with my favourite Sonic games, well up there with one of the most misunderstood Sonic games.
Um...
And I think we've done a pretty good job making a case for each side of that.
And just in case anyone doesn't know, I just want to make it clear, just in case you don't, in case anyone listens to Retronauts, who isn't old for some reason.
Point of all of this was because it was amazing to be able to have a game on CD then.
Like that was the latest exciting thing and CDs themselves were still thought of as colossal storage for games.
Just ridiculous.
Like if something was on CD, you imagined it would be endless and just fractally whirling lands of gaming.
And that very quickly.
You know within a few months.
It was very clear that that wasn't actually necessarily true.
But, like...
So you can have a real audio soundtrack on there.
That was amazing.
When we say it's good, it wasn't just because it was a particularly good example of a game soundtrack.
It was also a very early example.
For me the first one I ever encountered of an act like a cd audio, non-chip music, game soundtrack.
It was amazing.
Sonic, i mean.
I think my favorite gaming aesthetic, which the mega cd reps quite hard obviously, is the 2d sprite based platformer or other genre with cd music, because there's just something compelling as hell about that.
I mean, you're a fan of uh, i mean, the saturn continues that to a long, heavy extent.
You know shay, you're a fan of saturn sonic 3d.
I want to say yeah yes, i am yeah, i love that.
Yeah um, and that's a 2d game, despite the name sorry, fans that has a super british soundtrack again.
Uh, Now I'm flagging quite heavily, so I'm going to end this podcast reasonably abruptly.
But I think this has been a good case for the defense and also for the relatively measured offense.
Vegas Sonic CD.
So what I'm going to ask now is if anyone wants to continue to hear your well-thought-out opinions, Dave Bond, then where on earth can the people do so?
You can do that every two weeks.
And it's long as well.
We're talking like two hours of content every two weeks.
Sonic the Comic, the podcast which you can find on the web at stctpzone, or just by looking for it in podcast places.
And it's me and my friend Chris McFeely from Transformers The Basics going over Sonic the Comic, the British Sonic comics that came out concurrent with the games in the early 90s, and didn't decide to just randomly change everything and set Sonic in a version of...
Freedom Fighters fighting on Endor with Princess Leia there.
And in fact, it is literally just the latest Star Wars film, but on cartoon form.
No, it was actually about Sonic.
You know how come you're thinking of a Sonic comic and you're going, eww?
It's not that one.
It's the other one.
It's a good one.
It's the Sonic comic where you think of it and you go, ooh.
Exactly.
It's the Sonic comic where they do the Death Egg story properly.
Dave, do you know what blew my mind recently related to STC?
Was that?
When I found out that Nigel Kitching did a script and art for the Red Dwarfs magazine.
Magazine, yeah.
And they're really good.
And Dobbin as well, I believe.
And therefore quite interesting therefore, that one of the key stories in SCC is called Back to Reality, a name he got from Red Dwarf.
Huh, that is interesting.
And that's the only interesting thing about Red Dwarf.
And we cover all of this stuff and Red Dwarf and just stuff that was going on at the time in the world surrounding the comics, so that you've got the proper context, because that is what you will not get by talking to flipping fanboys on the internet of anything.
You won't have the proper context and we are determined for you to have it because it was so joyous.
So that is what we give you on Sonic the Comic the Podcast every two weeks.
Go and listen to that.
Enjoy.
Now more zingy.
Also, I'm DemonTomatoDave on various things like YouTube and the social medias and that.
And Shugles, where can we find you on the internet?
Hello, you can find me on YouTube and Blue Sky and Tumblr, basically anywhere.
I will be at Shugles underscore.
If that doesn't return a scribbled little grimacing face, then just try regular Shugles without the underscore.
But that's S-H-O-O-G-L-E-S.
I do overlong game talky videos, including a project that may actually be out by the time this goes live.
I finished the audio for it.
Yes, very exciting.
I know how long and hard you work on these.
And it's going to be on Pokemon Brilliant Diamond.
If that sounds like something that interests you, brilliant.
Maybe stick around for that.
If not, I've got some stuff on...
Crash Bandicoot, which I'm very happy with.
That's my favourite one.
Keiru no Tami ni Kani Wanaru, or The Frog for Whom the Bell Tolls, which I was quite happy with.
And, of course, the seminal classic.
Seminal being the operative word there.
Mysterious Girlfriend X. Jesus Christ.
Yeah, they're good videos.
And I really love that Crash one in particular.
I think that's one of the best Crash videos I've ever seen, going level by level and just like it's almost like audio commentary, except good um, instead of like normal audio comedy, which is people going like oh, i don't really remember doing this um Anyway yes,
Hi, I'm StuartJip.
You can find me at StuartJip on Twitter and BlueSky.
Or it might just be StuartJip and BlueSky.
I forget.
BlueSky is still new.
I don't know if Twitter will still be around by the time this goes out.
Or X, as it's called at the moment.
Moving on.
Retronauts.
If you enjoy Retronauts, thank you.
And you'd like to support Retronauts, thank you.
On Patreon you can go to patreoncom forward slash retronauts where for a mere 5 a month which is shit all you will gain access to two extra monthly episodes, as well as early week early access to every episode, so that you'll be the coolest kid on the playground and everyone else will be like oh man, did you hear that Out of This World episode of Retronauts?
And you'll be like, yeah, I heard that a week ago, you sad dicks.
But you also get Diamond Fight's Incredible This Week in Retro columns and you get access to the Discord.
So you can tell me Stu, you're not very good at promoting these things, are you?
You keep calling people sad dicks, and they don't like that.
You shouldn't do that Stu, and I'll have to concede that you're correct and I'm doing a horrible job.
You can also tell me that I'm very bad at ending podcasts, which I am, because this is the end of the podcast.
I'm ending it now.
Thank you very much for listening, and until next time, I shall see you in the Celebration, yeah!
Celebration, yeah!
Celebration, yeah!
Hey!
Isn't it appropriate that the ending for the Sonic CD episode is very abrupt and anticlimactic?
I just want to pick up on something that Dave said there, where he had the little younger friends.
Because I remember that we were in doing some English work while I was in fifth year and there was these little third years who had that room as their common room and we were kind of invading.
And while we were doing our work around all the cool kids and the lassie that I fancied and everything they were sitting there playing Yu-Gi-Oh.
And I had to sit there and just very.
There was one point where I was basically I don't know why I remember this so vividly, but it was basically while nobody was paying attention.
I just quickly went over to the kid that was losing and was like
Gemini summon Ancient Gear Knight.
And he's like, what?
And he's like, you can Gemini summon him.
If you summon him again, he gets an extra effect.
I was like, what?
And then I just tapped my nose and walked away.
Anyway, the teacher thought I was taking the piss out of them and I got called up for bullying them.
Oh, what?
And I was giving him advice.
I was telling him how to become a master of children's card games.
Do you know what that is exactly like, Shay?
You don't have to put this in.
This has nothing to do with this podcast, but...
It's exactly like the time when we were in assembly in primary school and the headmaster, or whoever was doing the assembly, played the classical piece The Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairy.
And it was, who knows what this is called, come up and tell me for a price.
And I leant over to my sort of hard friend and went, it's The Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairy.
Go on, go on, go and say.
And he went up and everyone thought I was... taking the piss out of him everyone thought that i was doing a joke because i was going to make the hard kids say dance of the sugar plum fairy in front of the school but it was that was what it was and he was right and he got and he got it right i don't know why i didn't go up i was being nice i mean anyway you got you know next time you're getting beaten up in the in the lunch yard like you know that that kid's going to come and defend you you know yeah exactly well they'll walk up and they'll go no stop this guy's okay Yeah.
Well, he was a good mate anyway.
See once I.
It reminds me of the time that I whispered something very quietly to a friend after an assembly was finished and we were clearing away and I got shouted at and got like detention.
Yeah.
And I just... They said, you got this detention.
And I'm like, what?
Are you kidding me?
The assembly's finished and I was putting chairs away.
What are you talking about?
And he's like, you got detention at Monday.
And I'm just like, I'm not going to that.
Yeah.
He's like, you better go to that.
And I was like, yeah, I'm not going to that.
He's like, see you Monday.
And I'm like, you won't see me because I'm not going to that.
And then I didn't go to that and never heard anything about it again.
All detention is fake.
Getting in trouble is a fake idea.
Kids, if you're listening to this, there are no consequences for any of your actions.
Do whatever you want.
Kill, maim, steal.
Do whatever you want.
It doesn't matter.
There are no consequences.
Everything's fake.
I was about to chime in and say there is no permanent record.
Download ROMs and keep them for way longer than 24 hours.
It doesn't matter anymore, kids.
Until you said kill, maim, steal, at which point, I don't know.
I feel like we shouldn't encourage that.
Maybe don't kill.
Don't kill.
Don't maim, even.
I wouldn't steal either.
Maim really responsibly.
Steal.
That is a very much case by case basis, i think.
But don't kill.
Say, you're in a supermarket, you're hungry, you haven't got any money, all you do, and you just don't want to spend it.
You see something you want?
Just take it.
Yeah, what's gonna happen?
Nothing, nobody cares anyway.
Moving on, i'm so unwell.
Oh, we should be impaired every time.
So we should be, we should be jailed, And then we can meet our hero, Yuji Naka.
Hooray!
He didn't work in this game.
Hey, whoever's editing this, I am so sorry.
