Every little thing You think that You need Every little thing You think that You need Every little thing that's just feeding your greed, I bet that you'll be fine without it." You're listening to The Minimalist podcast with Joshua Fields Milburn and T .K.
Coleman recorded live at Earthing Studios in sunny California.
Yes, thank you, Malabama.
Hello everybody, today we're letting go of control.
Let's do that together.
Let it go, T .K. Let it go, let it go, let it go.
Coming up on this free public -minimal episode a caller has a question about the fears that are hiding underneath her need to obsessively control everything.
And then we've got a lightning round question about the one area of life in which, TK and I each have a hard time letting go of control.
Let's follow by our right here, right now segment and a list or tip.
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Let's start with our callers.
If you have a question or a comment for our show, you can give us a call, we'd love to hear from you.
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Our first question today, This from Stephanie in Germany.
Hi guys, my name is Stephanie and I'm a new Patreon subscriber.
And I've been struggling a lot with the idea of letting go.
And it's not so much about the physical stuff, but about the emotional clutter.
And then I questioned myself what I was actually struggling with.
And I realized that for me, the hardest part is about being in control.
I'm just like a control freak.
and then I questioned where that was coming from, and I realized that it was often driven by fear.
And now I'm kind of stuck because I'm not really sure how I will be able to let go of my fears and about me taking control of everything.
So I'd really appreciate your taking it.
Stephanie, thank you for holding up a mirror to me because I too am a control freak.
That's the word that he used here.
And I think throughout this episode, we might dismantle this idea of being a control freak.
But I'd like to start with this question, TK.
What fears are hiding underneath Stephanie's need to obsessively control everything?
And when I say Stephanie, I'm really asking about me.
What's under, what's underneath my need to obsessively control everything?
Well, there are many fears.
One of them is the fear of other people's unreliability or incompetence.
And sometimes this fear is well grounded.
We know that other people might be questionable in how well they can do a task, but we might be in a situation where we simply have to depend on them.
And that can generate a lot of fear.
It's like the old saying, if you want it done right, do it yourself, that's not always true.
But it often feels like that.
And sometimes you're right.
So what makes letting go of control such a conundrum for some people is that it's not always a clear case of like, hey, you should let them do it because they're better at it than you.
Sometimes we struggle with those kinds of situations but sometimes it's, hey, you should let them do it even though you know you're better than them at it because there's some greater good that we're trying to invest in that may not pay off in terms of efficiency but in something else like familial connection, that employee or that young person having confidence in themselves and getting value experience and so on.
I do wanna get back to delegating because I think that's part of it.
Someone who like me is a control freak often has difficulty delegating certain things because of what you said, I feel like I can do it better right now.
Now that may or may not be true depending on the person, the situation, the task at hand.
Of course there are many tasks.
I know I can't do better, but I can do it the way that I want to do it.
And when I first heard this question, I started writing a rough draft of an essay here.
So this is rough. It's not published anywhere, but I wanted to read this as a jump -off point for discussion about my own desire to control things So if you are a control freak like me Freak like me Q, Adina Howard TK Coleman If you are a control freak like me here are a few truths for you now Whenever I say you please know that I'm really talking to myself.
Here we go You seek to control only that which feels out of control.
When the waters are calm, you are at peace and you don't try to control anything, but when the 20 foot waves arrive, you batten down the hatches.
This type of control, being prepared, makes sense in the middle of a storm.
In fact, it keeps you safe.
However, being controlling does not serve you.
when you attempt to control the things that you cannot control.
When the storm begins, you can try to control the ocean if you want, but it will eat you alive as you shout your irate profanities into the void.
This is what the control freak in you does every time something feels out of control.
You fix the practical things first to regain a sense of certainty and that's fine, but then you try to fix that which cannot be fixed.
You try to control that which cannot be controlled.
You try to preside over that which does not matter, which leads to more chaos.
Your need for control is rooted in expectations.
I expect to be happy.
And those expectations are tangled with your desires.
I want to acquire something that will finally make me happy.
Ironically, it is your unexamined desires that produce a rapacious craving for more.
The things of the past have not made me happy, but, you know what?
I bet that new car, that new phone, those new shoes, will make me happy.
Bet is a good word here because you are gambling with your happiness.
But here's the thing with consumerism.
You always lose the bet.
The house always wins, which amplifies your feeling of being out of control.
You see, you are not a control freak, you are the human embodiment of craving.
You believe that if you can control everything you will eventually feel satisfied.
What you don't realize is that to control something or someone is to cling to an outcome, And that clinging strangles the joy from natural desire.
That is why you destroy everything you try to control.
That's my pithy answer to this whole thing here.
You destroy, and I'm talking to myself here.
Hey, JFM, you destroy everything you try to control.
Return to text. It turns out your attempts to control your happiness are the very thing that prevent you from finding it.
In a recent interview, a woman asked whether I had any words of wisdom for my younger self.
After an uncomfortable pause, I responded with three words, loosen your grip.
That's the fundament of letting go.
The initial insight that changes your orientation toward clinging because you can't cling if you aren't holding on too tightly.
To loosen your grip on your stuff, your success, your ego or even a relationship, you must hold less tightly your expectations and the stories you tell yourself about those things.
The stuff won't complete you, the success won't complete you, the relationship won't complete you because you're already complete.
Even when everything feels out of control, you are complete.
This level of awareness requires that you stop clinging to a specific identity.
But how? Well, I teach my writing students that our verbs are so much more interesting when we let go of our nouns.
For me, writing is more enjoyable than being a writer.
Swimming is more pleasant when I don't think of myself as the swimmer, and love appears when I drop my identity as a lover.
When clung to, every identity is a type of clutter that is rooted in craving.
Craving to be unique?
Craving to be connected?
Craving to be better?
Craving to be more, more, more?
But when you let go of the noun, the identity, you actually let go of the need to control.
You breathe every moment of every day, yet you never call yourself a breather.
When riding, swimming, loving, or any other activity flows that naturally, there is no controller, and thus no need to control anything.
The wind does not attempt to control a flag that is popping smartly in the evening breeze.
The ocean does not struggle to control its waves as they crash onto the shore.
The wind and the waves are patterns of happening that exist without a need for a controller.
How are you any different?
Once you understand that your obsessive need to control always leads to disarray, and eventual madness, you will happily set down your identity as the controller." I'm reminded of Alan Watts when he says, is breathing something you do?
Hm. In one respect, yes, it's something that I do, my body does on its own, but generally I don't need to control that breathing.
In fact, when I tried to control it, it's not very sustainable.
When you meditate for 20 minutes and you watch every breath that happens, even if you're not controlling it, you watch it, that could be exhausting by itself.
Think of how exhausting it is to try to control everything.
That's right. And we talked about trusting people and how sometimes that's what underlies the need to control, but there's also an element of learning learning how to trust the processes, learning how learning works, learning how growth works, learning how family works, how human interaction works, and allowing room for nature to take its course.
My first job at a restaurant, I was very young, very green, I had never worked in a restaurant before, but I got the job because a friend put in a good word for me and I interviewed strongly.
And so my first time carrying a tray myself, I go out to my table and it's lunchtime and there's a woman who's on lunch break and she's dressed to the nines, man.
She's got a white suit on.
She looks so nice. And as I'm there with my tray and I do the little flip of the wrist to like get control of my tray, that drink came right off that tray and it poured perfectly on her lap.
Perfectly. Messed her whole suit up.
I still think about that lady today.
And thankfully she was so gracious.
She was so kind. You could see that she pitied me, as much as I pitied her.
She could just see how green I was, how scared I was.
And she took it like a champ, but I never forgot that lady.
And so the next time I go to get a tray and put some drinks on it, There was another server at the manager standing there and the other server's like, you gonna let him carry that?
And the manager says, I trust him with those drinks more than you.
TK is the least likely person in the restaurant to spill a drink on somebody right now.
That manager understood something about processes.
He didn't trust the person, but he trusted the process.
And he understood that there are certain mistakes that happened, certain failures that happened that transform you in such a way that you become a different kind of person.
And if you're micromanaging everything, you know, I'm not gonna let that guy carry another drink out because he messed up.
I gotta take over. This is just proof that I should have been the one serving all the tables.
I would have never grown.
I would have never experienced the nourishment that comes from his confidence in me, the maturity that comes from truly disappointing another person, letting them down and bouncing back from it.
And he wouldn't have experienced an efficient restaurant where he doesn't have to run around doing everything.
And so it pays off, but you gotta trust the process even when you don't fully know that the person has it down right.
Right, and so there's something about control, the fear that came up in Stephanie's question here.
And there's a fear of, oh, no, I'm not going to spill this drink again.
There's almost a healthy level of concern there, I wouldn't call it fear.
But you have the fear that will be paralyzing.
I often think of there are two types of fear.
One is worry, that's praying for something bad to happen in the future.
And the other one is immediate, clear and present danger.
If a hippopotamus walks in this studio, I'm not going to try to control it.
I'm not going to try to control the studio environment.
I'm not going to try to control the squeaking that's happening in Savvy D's chair right now.
Or was that a Jedi mind set how you did take control?
Well, I'm not going to try to control anything.
I am going to find a way to get myself to safety.
In fact, there's no time to worry when you're in true danger.
You're not worried about, oh no, how am I going to pay my rent next November?
I'm thinking about that at all.
How do I get out of this situation?
And that is when fear is really useful.
Concern is useful because it points to not repeating the mistakes of the past. So with that said, do you have anything practical for Stephanie to help her get these fears under control and maybe not feel like she needs to control everything obsessively in her life?
Number one, in your effort to be less controlling don't go to the opposite extreme of assuming that you're doing something wrong every time you try to take charge of a situation.
Very often people who want to control things tend to be very competent in a lot of different ways.
So don't throw out the good with the bad.
Build on a foundation of recognizing that your desire to take charge of things is a true expression of the leadership spirit.
You just wanna go about it in a way that's healthy.
So I think with that, in the essay, I was trying to highlight a bit of that.
This type of control, i .e. being prepared, make sense in the middle of a storm.
It keeps you safe. Battle down the hatches is the thing you do on a boat in order to keep you safe.
However, when you go beyond that, beyond the practical control, controlling the things that you have influence over and it makes sense because it matters to control certain things.
But when you go beyond that, and you try to fix that, which cannot be fixed, that's a rumination or even worse you control that which cannot be controlled or even worse than that you start controlling all the things that you can control but they don't matter if you're rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic as it is sinking you do have some semblance of control there.
But quite often that type of control gets in the way of what you actually need to do.
Absolutely. That's so, so good.
And you know, influence can get you what control often aspires to.
If you put someone else in charge but say to them, Hey, let me know if you need anything.
When they struggle, they come to you and you get to have a chance to influence.
Or you can say, Hey, let me show you how to do it in a way that works best, but then I'm going to empower you to be the one to handle it.
Influence can be just as fulfilling as control.
And it's far less stressful as well.
So look for opportunities to not just give up control, but to healthfully express that desire to be in control in the form of ways that you can have influence.
And the other person is more likely to receive it because it feels like cooperation.
It feels like you're enrolling them in the process.
Another thing I would say too, is to identify what those concerns are that are making you want to control.
And then ask yourself, what if I had to define what's best in terms that weren't limited to efficiency or perfection?
Because very often when we need to give up control, it's because there's something worth pursuing other than getting it done the fastest, getting there the fastest. It might be empowering someone else.
It might be making another person feel like they belong.
There's a class that I teach at my church and sometimes I'm doing things and people may show up early and they say, hey, is there anything I can do?
Now the answer is, no, I'm good.
I'm making the coffee right now.
I'm putting the books on the table but because I'm building community, what's the right response for me?
It's to stop and say, yeah, would you mind putting these books on the tables?
I don't need him to do that.
That's why I got it early.
This is easy. In fact, I would rather do it, but I'm gonna share the love because this person is just gonna be standing around twiddling their thumbs and I want them to feel involved.
So what's worth fighting for, beyond efficiency and beyond perfection.
There's always an answer to that and that'll make you excited to give up control because what you're actually doing is facilitating a bigger outcome than getting there faster.
I was on the phone this past weekend with our friend, Dr. John Deloney.
He wrote a book about anxiety and talking about this, what he often says is bring those concerns that you're talking about.
So Stephanie has some concerns here, but they're rather nebulous right now.
They're in the back of her mind.
She says, bring those concerns to the front of your mind by getting them down on paper.
What are you actually afraid of here?
And as soon as you start asking that question, the answers will bowl you over.
What am I afraid of?
That people won't like me?
Well, that's true right now.
People already don't like you.
There's someone who doesn't like you, right?
Well more people won't like me.
Okay, well, what's wrong with that?
Because most people don't have any idea who you are.
There are 8 billion people in this world.
Most of them don't like you or not like you.
They just don't know you, right?
And so what are your real concerns here, and then what are your concerns behind the concerns?
That process of autolysis, the cell devouring itself?
You can do the same thing with these thoughts, these fearful thoughts, getting them onto the page and you allow those thoughts, those negative thoughts to then eat themselves.
There's also a component of emotional clutter here.
So Stephanie, I would encourage you to download TK's free ebook.
It is called Emotional Clutter.
You just go over to TheMinimalists .com, click on resources at the top.
We have a whole resources page where you can download all of our free resources.
One of them is TK's ebook.
It's called Emotional Clutter.
And it walks you through a better understanding of all of these emotions that clutter our minds in our everyday lives, the audio book version of that is also available.
So if you prefer that, we'd be happy to send you a copy of that as well.
And while you're here, you may want to reach out to someone who can help you sort through that emotional clutter, whether it is a local therapist, or if you would like a clutter counseling session with TK Coleman, we're now offering that or TK is offering that as well over at The Minimalist. You go to theminimalist .com, click on Counseling at the top and you can book a clutter counseling session with him.
But Stephanie, I'd love to offer one of those to you for free.
Malabama before you get back to our callers, what time is it?
You know what time it is.
It's time for the Lightning Round, where we answer the Patreon community chats question of the week.
Yes indeed. Now of course, during the Lightning Round we each have 60 seconds to answer your question with a short, shareable minimal maxim.
You could find this episode's maxims in the show notes at TheMinimalists .com, slash podcast and every minimal maxim ever at MinimalMaxims .com.
We'll also deliver our weekly show notes directly to your inbox, including seven new maxims every Monday for free.
If you sign up for our email newsletter at TheMinimalists .email, we'll never send you spam or junk or advertisements, but we will start your week off with a dose of simplicity.
What is the question of the week this week?
What's one area of life in which you have a hard time letting go of control?
Oh right. Anyh, what is one area of life in which you have a hard time letting go of control?
My biggest problem here is I can't just pick one, but we'll talk about that.
Minimalist. You know what, before we get to our pithy answers, TK, let's hear how some of our listeners answered this question.
Andrea said, I have a hard time handing off my personal laundry.
I don't expect anyone else to know which items can't be dried and what settings need to be used, but it's just faster if I just do it myself.
well, there's this bit of delegation.
I'm afraid to delegate because I want to control some of these things.
And I totally get it.
Laundry is one of those areas that took me a long time to be able to even accept anyone else touching my laundry.
And I had to give back some pretty...
Every time she was trying to wash my clothes, it was fine, but it wasn't up to the standard. Because I use like three drops of detergent, literally three.
And then I bring the underwear out at a certain period of time and I hang dry it after it's dry to the dryer for 22 minutes.
And so I have a whole process I'm saying, hey, look, I don't expect any of this from you, but if you want to contribute, here's the best way that you can contribute, laying out specific instructions that allow people to help you.
But then also having grace when you understand that they're not going to be able to live up to that standard every time.
This morning I was sitting down with AB and we were going over all of the production notes here.
We were going over some formatting stuff.
And yes, it would have been easier for me to just be like, all right, I formatted it for you, here you go, A .B.
But then she never learns.
And also that robs her of the dignity of being able to do these things on her own.
The cool thing about her learning it after doing it once or twice or three times now she has it down and I've been able to take that off of my plate or Malabama's plate and she's doing it on her own.
But also she has this sense of ownership of that that she, that I would be depriving her of if I did everything for her.
You know, when we say things like, it'd just be faster if I did it by myself, to state the obvious, that's a different way of saying, it'd be so much slower to teach someone else.
And that's true. And sometimes it's not so much that we don't trust the person or the process, but we don't trust ourselves to be patient and to be kind and to be charitable as we are teaching someone to do something and they're going about it in a way that's very frustrating to us.
And so sometimes letting go of control is also about taking on the challenge of pushing ourselves to love people a little harder, to be patient with them a little bit longer when we're teaching them how to do something that's obvious to us and they are struggling with something that we've mastered.
When I'm teaching them, I'm learning so much more in the process.
I became a much better writer when I started teaching a writing class, 12, 13 years ago now.
I think I taught my first writing class in 2011 maybe And so it's been a while but those first two or three years my writing improved so dramatically because I had to stop and break down my own recipe and then I would scrutinize the things that were working.
I said, I'll do more of that, the things that weren't working for me, I'd let those things go.
And so there's something about teaching.
There's this old apathome that the teacher learns more than the student.
And that is often true.
In fact, when we brought the min turns on here Savodakis and AB over here, We, I told Mal cause she was, she came and said, hey, I just need to get some of these things off of my plate.
And I said, that's great.
But realize that when we first train them up, it's actually going to require more work because you know what?
You have to pause and you have to show them how to do it.
And here's the button you have to, here's how you print it.
Here's the formatting.
Here's how we like things around the studio.
Here's how you do these mechanical things.
But that actually requires more work upfront.
But the long tail of that is you're giving ownership and autonomy to someone else who can do a great job with it.
What does Anita say?
Anita said, I handled my parents affairs when they lived with me and after their death, since I already knew all the details.
The idea of handing over any of those responsibilities to anyone else seemed like I'd have a harder time explaining everything than just handling it myself.
I think there's sometimes there like these one -time projects where it just makes sense for me to do it all on my own, right?
because it wouldn't help for you to hand all of those things off most likely.
Unless it was detrimental to your mental health, then you could see a reason to hand those things off.
But if you're like, you know what, I know how to get this done, it's a one -time thing.
I'm just going to sit down and take care of it.
That's a rather practical use and you don't necessarily have to let go of control with these mechanical or practical things.
What about Jenny? Jenny said, I have a hard time letting go of other people's opinions of me.
I know I can't really control their opinions, but I do control how I come across and act and try to live up to the opinions I think they have of me.
We were just doing Sunday symposium recently here in Los Angeles.
And the essay that I read from was called Store Brand Insecurity, and really our insecurity, a lot of our insecurity at least has to do with craving a particular outcome in the mind of someone else.
And that's what an opinion is.
because I want to influence your mind so much that you have a particular view of me.
You know, I think about this whole business of worrying about the opinions of others in terms of addiction, but addiction requires a tremendous amount of honesty.
You gotta acknowledge to yourself that this is an area where you have a weakness.
Imagine if there's something you're addicted to, let's just say soda, right?
I'm addicted to soda, and it's really important to me that I limit my intake of that or eliminate it all together.
Well, imagine if I always have it in the house and it's always easily accessible and it's right there and I'm looking at it every day and I keep complaining to myself and condemning myself saying, I just keep struggling with this.
I keep struggling with this.
And it's based on the presupposition that if I were a sufficiently advanced or mature person, I could just be around that all the time and not struggle.
But that's not what it means to have a weakness.
To have a weakness is to exhibit at the strength of being honest about where you are not strong.
And so anytime you struggle with something like that, you have to limit your exposure.
And this applies to other people's opinions too.
It's like, hang out with those people less, go to those websites less, read those comments less, ask certain people what they think less.
There are other ways to learn about life and yourself and to get feedback that don't require you to ask the same people who tell you things that eventually become a distraction from where your point of focus needs to be.
You truly can limit your exposure to other people's opinions and a lot of people who are really good at being able to say, I don't focus too much on what other people think.
It's precisely because they don't focus too much on what other people think.
And there's something about being able to let go of their opinions.
There are two ways to do it as you're illustrating here.
One is to avoid bringing them in the first place, like the best way to declutter your house is not to bring home those items that will soon turn into clutter.
certainly don't bring clutter home that you know is clutter right away, just because it was a great deal or someone was offering it to me or whatever.
But isn't the same thing true with opinion clutter?
I don't need to bring that into my life.
And today we're faced with this additional problem, whereas before most of human history, we were affected by other people's opinions, but it's only the people we interacted with.
Now they're people we've never met, people whom we will never meet who are on the other side of the world or in a different state or in another city or down the street who you would never talk to, but now you're infected by their opinion, which is often grounded in an ideology.
You know Savvie Dee was showing me a text message this morning, don't worry, I won't go into the details.
But a friend of his is trying to change his mind to convince him of something, right?
And it's just, Savvie Dee just was not interested in engaging in it, right?
Because I think quite often our first reaction is, if I can just change their mind, and then they will feel differently about me, right?
As opposed to just setting it down and saying, hey, I don't need them to change their mind.
I can say, thank you for your opinion, have a nice day.
In fact, whenever someone states something as a fact, I like to append it with two things I believe and right now, or I feel and right now.
It's like, that diet is unhealthy for you.
Okay, I feel that your diet is unhealthy for you right now.
And then it actually becomes a statement of fact because I can't dispute your feelings.
You actually do feel that way.
But you could also say, smoking is really good for you.
Okay, well, I don't agree with that, but what you're saying is I feel smoking is good for you right now.
And what an interesting way to think about that because it gives you the grace to say that opinion is merely an opinion.
And while I'm not gonna let them batter me with the opinion?
The thing I don't wanna do is bring my opinion out of my back pocket and start battering up with it.
Yeah. One more quick thing.
Imagine if you walk down the street and you stopped every person you pass by and says, hey, excuse me, sir, three questions for you.
One, do you think I'm attractive, too?
If not, is there anything you think I can do about it?
And if so, what can I do about it?
Unless someone says, yes, you are attractive, you can't do anything about that cause God made you beautiful, baby.
and you're all good to go.
Just enjoy your life.
Anything but that is probably going to feel bad and you're going to be thinking about it all day.
No, man, you're not attractive and ain't nothing you can really do about it.
Yeah, you are attractive, but you better start working out Dehu.
You better start working out, brother.
Or you're attractive.
You're not attractive.
You probably need to get a different haircut.
Now I'm sure you'll get some feedback that's good.
Some feedback that's not very helpful, but just imagine what that would do to your psyche if you took that volume of opinion in every time you walked past someone.
And the thing is, people do have answers.
For the most part, when you pass people by, they process you in that way.
They think, oh, he's a pretty good looking.
Or, he looks like an idiot.
Or, who does this guy think he is?
People have those kinds of opinions, but why would you want to expose yourself to them in that way?
Why would you want to engage people in a way that takes in that much, even if it's true?
There are lots of things that are true that aren't necessary to focus on all day.
I don't ask everyone that I talked to what they had for breakfast that morning, even though their answer would be true.
There are some truths that just aren't worth focusing on.
You got to live your life.
Let's do one more here.
This one's for Jeff.
Jeff said, I have a hard time letting go of my busy schedule.
Yes. Same, Jeff. This is one of those things we, I've got that un -busy essay that we've talked about here on the podcast before, but you can certainly check it out.
I'll put a link to it in the show notes, but one of the things I realized, and this is outside of that essay, busyness is this superficial solution to regain control or at least a semblance of control, but it actually leads to more chaos in the long run because it feels like I'm controlling everything.
If I say yes to this appointment, I keep my hands moving all the time, it feels like I have a sense of control amid the chaos.
It's like, imagine we rearranged those deck chairs and the Titanic and then I sit down in one of the chairs and I start knitting, I do have control.
My hands are busy right now, but this whole ship is going down.
Still going down. That's so relatable, too.
Anytime I can tell my calendar's getting out of control, it's because I have caught myself in a whirlwind of I should rearrange my entire apartment's furniture, which I might have done recently.
And I was like, huh, I'm sensing a pattern here.
I'm trying to grasp control of something for that immediate dopamine hit.
And it's like, I don't think this is the lasting change that I'm really looking for.
I don't think moving my desk from this wall to this wall is gonna give me the control I'm looking for.
Well, that goes back to those three types of control, controlling the things that are important and can be controlled, that makes a whole lot of sense.
But then we try to control the things that we have no control over and of course we drive ourselves crazy and make ourselves miserable doing that.
But then there's these other things that they're not as important as the things you want to do but you know, you have a sense of control.
So, I'm the same way.
It's like, okay, everything feels out of control.
What am I gonna do?
I'm gonna clean up the house.
And yes, it may give me a sense of relief and it may add some extra busyness to my calendar but what it does is actually wallpapers over the things that are important that I can focus on control in.
So good. Well, how about you listeners?
What's one area of life in which you have a hard time letting go of control.
Let us know in the comments.
All right, give me something pithy TK.
What's one area in which you have a hard time letting go of control?
Control can ease the way, but struggle can strengthen the soul.
So I encounter this struggle as an educator.
One of the easiest things to get wrong when teaching others is to get the chronology of studying and testing mixed up.
The traditional way is to say study first, then take a test. Study first, take a test. But that's not how you learn, that's not how real life gives you wisdom.
The way it really works is, you get a test and then you study.
You get a test and then you get your study.
And what you do in a classroom to recreate that is you give your students some kind of interesting challenge or game to play that they're gonna struggle with.
And then when you call them back to attention, you say, well, what did you learn?
Or what's a way that we could have done that better?
Or why was that obstacle tricking us up?
Did anyone find a solution to it?
Now they're interested because they felt the weight of the question, they've wrestled with the question.
They want the answer.
They're going to appreciate the answer.
And that's a powerful way to educate, but it comes with a struggle for the teacher.
And that is, you've got to be comfortable setting up a situation where your students can struggle safely and you've got to watch them even though you know how to make things easier.
And that's a metaphor for how it works with life as well sometimes.
I had to do a government test recently for an application I was filling out And it was like three pages of multiple choice, ABCD, right?
And the instructor, he knew that I already knew all the answers.
So he goes, here's the test and here's the answers.
Now he wasn't instructing me on anything, he was simply saying, let's get this over with.
And so the teacher that gives someone all of the answers, they're just saying, let's get this over with.
With my daughter, she has a business, she's 11 years old and she has a dog walking business called Paul's, P -A -W -S, pretty awesome walking service.
Ah, that's awesome.
And she has these posters all around the neighborhood that she will either dog sit or walk your dog for you.
And she charges $5 for 30 minutes per dog.
And she's turned this into a nice little business.
But recently she was realizing she hasn't gotten new customers in the last couple of weeks.
And she's like, how can I get more customers?
And it was easy for me because I've run a lot of businesses and I have 17 different ways you can get new customers, Ella.
But then I would be robbing her of the dignity to have the ability of learning that on her own.
I said, well, let's explore that together.
Just if you had to guess, what are like two or three ways you think you can get new customers?
She's like, well, maybe I could like put up some flyers, like small version of my poster and put it in people's mailboxes?
Like that's interesting.
What else could you do with those flyers?
Like, well, I guess I could go hand them to people who were walking their dogs over in the meadows down the street.
Oh, that's a great idea.
And so she's coming up with all of these ideas that, by the way, were ideas I was gonna hand into her anyway.
It's a little inconvenient for me because I'm not just telling her, here are the three best ways to do it.
She's figuring it out on her own.
And we kept exploring it and exploring it in a way that gave her a sense of control without needing to control anything.
Now here's my pick the answer for you.
Letting go of control is the simplest way to regain control.
Needing to control everything is a great way to destroy the things that I care about the most. When you think about a butterfly and you see how beautiful this monarch butterfly is, and downtown Ojai, there is, like, this garden that all of these monarchs are flying through, and it's stunning.
And it's beautiful.
Well, part of what is beautiful is I have no control over it.
But if I were to catch one of those butterflies and pin it down, pin its wings to some piece of cardboard and then frame it, I guess it'd still be pretty, but it would lack the beauty.
my control would rob it of its essence in a way.
And quite often that's what happens.
And I say this is a person who's been diagnosed with OCD.
And so I'm OCD in the sense that I'm very obsessive, I'm a little bit compulsive, the C should really be controlling, by the way.
Obsessive controlling disorder here, right?
Because - That's really controlling.
Right, right, well, that's the ...
Change the whole accident.
His brother wanted to change the alphabet.
That's how I started this essay that I read earlier, called Clinging to Control.
You seek to control only that which feels out of control.
Of course, I don't try to control the butterfly.
It doesn't feel out of control.
But of course, if I had a butterfly infestation in my house and there are a million butterflies in there, I might seek to try to control some of them in some way to usher them out of the house because it would feel out of control.
And so quite often looking to the thing and realizing, well, maybe this is something I can't control or maybe this is something that doesn't even matter.
And therefore I don't need to control it in the first place.
All right, that's the end of page one, but we are just getting started.
We still have a full stack of callers to talk to on pages two and three.
But first, real quick for right here, right now, here's one thing that's going on in the life of the minimless.
Sunday Symposium is this week in October 27th at 11 a .m. We've been having some outstanding events at the Greenway Theater.
We just had one. Now, we're actually filming this one.
Nicodemus will be in town for this.
We're working on a new documentary.
It's called The Big Simple.
We're examining the other kinds of clutter.
Once we get beyond the material possessions, what about the emotional clutter or the mental clutter or the calendar clutter?
And we're gonna be talking a lot about those things at this next Sunday symposium.
Also, we're working with Savvy D here to expand or I should say, spread Sunday symposium to other markets.
We were just up in Santa Barbara this past week and really enjoyed finding a venue up there.
We're looking at going further South and Orange County or somewhere else in Southern California as well.
We have people from all over coming to these events.
The most recent one, I met people from Mexico, from Canada, from Arizona, Bonnie came down from Fresno. You know?
So many people. There's someone from Ohio there this last time.
A couple of guys from Vegas were there?
Yeah, Nevada. They showed up and Zack was one of them.
Yeah, they're great.
Zack and Edgar, shout out.
Yeah. And so you know what?
If you wanna have a meaningful community experience here in Southern California, we're doing this once a month right now, but this one's gonna be especially special.
It's October 27th at 11 a .m. We're going to today release 50 tickets we've set aside.
So get them while you can.
They are free tickets, but seats are limited.
So grab your tickets right now, sundaysimposium .com.
We'll put a link to that in the show notes.
Malabama, what else you got for us?
Here is a minimalist insight from one of our listeners.
Hi, this is Krista from Ontario, Canada.
I'm a Patreon member.
And I'm calling in to say thanks to TK and to mention how awesome my Zoom session with him was.
I was having trouble letting go of some mental and emotional clutter.
and TK was so helpful and so patient.
He listened carefully to my story and gave excellent perspectives and suggested some great options for letting go, which I hadn't considered.
I even got my very own TK branded analogies for my situation.
And as a testament to how open -minded TK is, I don't own a Black t -shirt.
I showed up for the Zoom session in Stripes, and yet he was still willing to talk with me, so I would highly recommend a one -on -one decluttering session with TK for anyone who's struggling to let go of something be it tangible or intangible for me it was immensely rewarding and a really enjoyable experience thanks again TK.
Oh Krista thank you so much for that lovely testimonial I agree TK is an amazing counselor he's helped me out immensely although he never lets me get away with a striped shirt every time I come in here with a colorful shirt he makes me take it off.
Chris, the hugs from the heart.
Much love to you. For anyone else who has a listener tip or insight about this episode or some sort of response to a caller or question that someone asked, let us know.
Just send in a voice recording to podcast at TheMinimalists .com so we can feature your voice on the show.
All right, that's the first 33 percent of episode.
465. We'll see you on Patreon for the full maximal edition, which includes answers to a bunch more questions.
Questions like, what are 22 practical ways to be eco -friendly on a budget?
We've got 22 of them for you, actually got a bonus one as well.
Only 15 of them work for me.
So there are seven other ways that don't work for me at all, but maybe they will work for you.
22 ways to be eco -friendly on a budget.
Also, what should I do when my significant other accuses me of being a control freak?
Also, how can I let go of my need to control Oh, my kids' screentime and social media access.
Plus we've got a million more questions and simple living segments over on the Minimalist Private Podcast. We also have an outstanding home tour from one of our listeners this week.
Visit patreon .com slash The Minimalist or click the link in the description to subscribe and get your personal links so that our weekly maximal episodes play in your favorite podcast app.
You also gain access to all of our podcast archives all the way back to episode 001.
By the way, Patreon is now offering free trials.
So if you'd like to test drive our private podcast, you can join for seven days for free.
And that is our minimal episode for today.
Big thanks to Earthing Studios for the recording space.
On behalf of Ryan Nicodemus, T.
K. Coleman, Malabama, post -production Peter Spire Jeff, and Spire Dave. A.
B. over there on the couch. SavvyD on the board, and the rest of our team.
I'm Joshua Fields Milburn.
If you leave here today with just one message, let it be this.
love people, and use things.
Because the opposite never works.
Thanks for listening, y 'all.
We'll see you next time.
Keep it simple. Every little thing you think that you need.
Every little thing you think that you need.
Every little thing that's just feeding your greed.
Oh, I bet that you'd be fine without it.
