John Stewart is back in the host chair at The Daily Show, which means he's also back in our ears on The Daily Show, Ears Edition Podcast.
Join late night legend John Stewart and the best news team for today's biggest headlines, exclusive extended interviews and more.
Now this is the second term we can all get behind.
Listen to The Daily Show, Ears Edition on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.
Hello and welcome back to the psychology of your 20s the podcast where we discuss some of the big life changes and transitions of our 20s and what they mean for our psychology.
Welcome back to the podcast everyone.
Thank you for joining us again this week.
We've got a pretty exciting episode going on today and a very special guest.
Welcome Claudia. Hi Gemma.
Thanks for having me.
Oh that's okay. So how do we know each other before we get into what we're talking about?
So well we've worked at Boost together when we both lived in Melbourne.
Yeah like five years ago.
Five years ago or five years ago?
Yeah when you were still in high school.
Yeah oh my god I didn't say that.
I was literally such a baby and you guys really took me under your wing.
I know. It was so nice.
I was your manager for a bit.
Yeah I know. You were my manager and I used to always steal protein balls.
Yeah I did too. Yeah yeah.
But um. Don't tell him boss love.
Don't lay. Are you listening?
Don't box. I wonder what he's doing right now.
I don't know. Hopefully he's happy.
Hopefully. I think his Boost Juice shut down for a period.
It did. Five years ago.
Five years ago. Yeah when you were still in high school.
Yeah oh my god I didn't say that.
I was literally such a baby and you guys really took me under your wing.
It was so nice. I was your manager for a bit.
Yeah I know. You were my manager and I used to always steal protein balls.
Yes I did too. Yeah yeah.
But um. Don't tell him boss love.
Don't lay. Are you listening?
Don't box. I wonder what he's doing right now.
I don't know. Hopefully he's happy.
I think his Boost Juice shut down for a period.
It did. Health code violations most likely.
But that's another.
That's another story.
That's another story.
Um but basically Carter and I knew each other when I was significantly younger.
You were also same the age of being younger.
But I was little and newer a bit older than me.
And then I moved to Sydney and we went out for dinner the other night.
And as you do we were like updating each other on literally four years of our lives.
And we started talking about our relationships as you do.
Um and one in particular for you.
Yeah. Um one of my yeah relationship for a few years ago.
Yeah. Wasn't healthy to say the least.
No. Yeah. I was listening to it in like genuine shock.
Genuinely yeah. I was speechless and I was like you know what this is like something so prominent.
Like so common for women.
Especially in your twenties.
Definitely. Um like we were talking about when you don't have boundaries for yourself yet you don't really know what you want.
Just still just psychology.
Um and I just finished my honours in psychology last year.
Yeah. Actually my research was in this kind of area as well.
Yeah. Similar area.
Should I link your thesis so if you want to read it?
Oh it's not it's not published.
Oh damn. It's so good.
I like she like sent it to the after dinner and I was like oh incredible reading.
Um but yes so obviously we're not licensed therapists.
Yeah. But yes I do have an honors degree.
In this area. In this area.
So like I was reading her thesis and I was like this is like you know I always try and make the episodes like really kind of research based and I think like my I didn't really want to do this episode I think alone and like not have like someone else to kind of bounce ideas off of or another experience.
Um so this just seemed like the perfect guest to have.
A perfect time for dinner.
So we're gonna get into it today.
Talk all about toxic relationships.
So we've given you the whole story of how this episode came to be.
Um we were having dinner and we were talking about our experience.
And Claudia would you like to kind of give a bit of yeah like that story into what we were talking about.
I was just telling Gemma so I moved to Sydney in 2018 for uni.
It was my first year of uni.
I was living on campus so like a whole street of houses that were all uni students.
And the house next door to mine was like had a house of eight.
And there was one of the people living in the house.
He was an exchange student.
And you know being the house next door we kind of became friends whatever um hung out a bit.
I kind of you know knew what he was like you know you kind of tell I think we'll get into that a bit more later.
But you know very charming.
We became friends and because I kind of yeah I rejected him like pretty like at the start.
Yeah like he kind of came on and I was like nah like I had already dealt with little experiences of just kind of you know crappy dating experiences.
So I was like nah I'm like here to kind of study and have fun.
But because he was my friend or I considered him a friend at the time you know I think he invited me out for breakfast one day just as friends.
So I thought and it kind of turned I guess like more intimate very fast.
And I kind of thought because if we were friends and he'd actually tried for a few months at this point to kind of get to know me and everything like I obviously found him attractive.
I was like sure maybe this could be a thing like maybe I judge it too harshly or maybe because he's actually putting an effort and yes he could have that tendencies but if he really likes me you know it kind of was a whole like he is going to abandon being a fuck boy for me.
I can change him. I can be the one.
I can be the one you know.
Makes him realise how to treat women.
Very much wanting to be that.
And so when I kind of had my brain switched kind of to that and very quickly I was kind of in it and I wanted it and I wanted to be that.
And there was lots of things that happened throughout the year.
You know we never made it.
One of the things was we never established that we were official.
We never wanted to put a label on it.
Yeah you know so the typical kind of he could still get away with things under the guise of there's no label.
We're not official.
You're not my girlfriend.
So for you know I consider it in my head it very much was.
In my head I wasn't seeing anyone else.
I wasn't interested in anyone else.
I was committed like I would be committed in a normal relationship and that's what I wanted.
But you know to him it was fun and games really.
To him I was. Who knows who knows what I was to him.
I don't know. I don't know.
I probably think he doesn't even know he sounds like such a piece of paper.
I still don't know to this day but that's something you have to accept when you get into this.
But so basically he would kind of spring on every month or a couple of months that he went on a Tinder date or he went on other dates for other women.
And so every time you know I would hear that and be like obviously that's not OK.
I am taking this seriously and you're not.
Yeah. So I would want to end it.
I would want to get out of it.
And he had this way of making me feel bad for him.
And this is actually something I only realised very recently.
I was reading this book that my actually now boyfriend gave me when I finished my thesis.
Who's a sweetheart.
Yeah he's so lovely.
He's lovely. So there's a good ending everyone before you hear all this tragic ending.
I'm in a very healthy relationship now.
But yeah. But he gave me anyways he gave me this book on kind of sociopaths basically.
Which is pretty much who I was dealing with unknowingly at the time.
And anyway I was reading this book and one of the things that really stuck out to me and I didn't really realise because I still never really fully understood what kept me in it.
I like I knew it. I knew how bad it was.
And there was a lot of things that happened.
There was a lot like there was a lot that happened at work.
When you told me I was like downright abusive and unacceptable.
Oh my God. I was so angry I was like, yeah.
And I can only imagine like, yeah, anyhow.
And there was a lot of things there was a lot of things.
So every time and I kind of wondered to myself even years after like still the question lingered like how how did he keep getting me back.
I was ready every single time he said I went on Tinder date.
I had sex with this person like oh every time I was like that is it.
We are done. I'm done.
I had it all prepared.
We would sit down to have a chat and somehow I would end up after that chat not broken up with him but back with him.
Yeah and feeling bad and feeling bad for him.
And then so when I read this book they said that the number one thing they talked to someone who was in jail.
Yeah. He was a known psychopath.
I was a psychologist talking to him.
They said what do you most want from someone and what is it that you look for when choosing kind of victims almost.
And they thought that we're going to say like I want power.
I want money. It's kind of control whatever.
He said I want guilt.
I want people to feel guilty because you know what.
When someone feels guilty when someone feels sad for someone all other emotions in a normal functioning human brain go.
Oh my God. It's that powerful.
And that is something that oh my God that's exactly what happened.
That's exactly what it did because my emotions were so this is done.
Yeah this is done clear cut like I'm not stupid.
Yeah I wasn't stupid I knew damn well it was happening yeah couldn't understand and then I read that and I was like oh my God.
And you feel bad for some if you feel pity for someone yeah if you feel pity and guilty and kind of you have that sadness or pity for someone.
You want to kind of then make it better and you want you feel bad for them.
You think they are actually a nice person.
Yeah. So when they get you when they you know because it was a typical spill of you know I'm sorry I'm shit like this was what he kept you know saying every time I'll change it's a typical I will change I'll change I'm sorry I've got to work out my shit got to you know I've got shit to work on la la la but I
will do it you know you kind of you as a normal person you think they want to work.
Yeah they do that's what you would because that's what I would do you know.
Oh you see they're acknowledging the fact that you want to work on it they want to change and you feel pity for them you think oh what a sad kind of oh you've had a fucked up child.
Oh you're a bit sad or especially you know he was in a new country by himself.
It is it's the pity party and that's what they want it's the pity party.
Yeah. Well I was like it's so funny you said that because back when I was like 19 I was like seeing this person and it's like you said that to me and I was just like oh my God that like the exact same thing like he would always like make up this like really tragic reason why I had to come over and see
him and like comfort him and like literally like basically like cuddle it like cuddle him to sleep and then he'd be like the next morning like I hate you can leave.
Yeah exactly. And I'd be like oh I really thought it was going to block me yeah.
Sad and pity for someone yeah it's insane it's it is it takes over and it takes and then they're like oh and you feel bad and oh and then the next morning yeah this really same thing happened and it's like oh kick you out.
Yeah I I once had this time when he was like oh something really awful has happened to me and it was my birthday and I went over to this person's like a part like apartment and I was like is everything okay and he's like no and he's like telling me this whole story.
About something tragic and I was like okay like I don't even care it's my birthday like I just like I know I should be shitty at you but like I feel so bad for you and then he as soon as I have the opportunity to talk he goes on his phone and he interrupts me and he goes oh someone else is actually
coming upstairs do you mind just going and waiting in the bathroom yeah oh my God and I was like what he goes like just go away in the bathroom like my friend is coming upstairs and it was another girl he was seeing yeah and it was my birthday.
And I was sitting in the bathroom and then I just had this realization I was like what the fuck am I doing here?
And you do have those realizations yeah quite like like you're like what the fuck yeah and like one of the what the fuck moments which really should have been the end of the relationship but for me was after this kind of back and forth of I'm going on Tinder dates and I'm kind of blah blah blah but I
love you whatever bullshit.
Um he had a party at his house like his housemates had a party and he was like to me oh I'm gonna be late and I was like you know it's your house where will you be he said again going on the Tinder date which was you know I'd heard it before and at this point I was just a bit fed up and I was like ah
all my friends are coming to this party so I just said I'll deal with like this later but whatever you do I said in one thing that you do do not bring her back to this party.
Just don't do it you know my friends are gonna be here I'm there yeah that's like I'm there even though I didn't even word it like that see he was like oh but my friends it wasn't even like I'm there.
I mean this respect the person you've been seeing I know anyway it was anyway um and he was like what do you think I'm stupid like why would I do that of course I wouldn't do that and I was like well I've done many stupid things yeah these months like yeah all right but he was like adamant like I would not do
that. Party happens all my friends were literally sitting in the lounge room in a circle all around in a circle he walks in the middle of us with this girl says hey just looks says hey like so casually barely acknowledges me says hey and go straight upstairs tough sex with her.
Yeah I've heard that before but I still like what the fuck yeah like it's just that was really like it would have hurt so much yeah and obviously that was hurt underneath it but all that came out was fear anger so angry because most of the four months I was just sad I was sad you know every time this happened
I'll just cry or go to my friends but this time I fucking cracked yeah and I you know everyone looked at me in shock and everyone was kind of like.
I don't know what to do and my friend you know that lived in that same house was like in a room at the time who was right yes to his room so I kind of went upstairs and obviously just witness what happened so I went upstairs to tell her yeah I'm very angry yeah you know being like fuck yeah he just
did this and this like oh my god so I was like pacing back and forth kind of just like ranting essentially.
And she just sat there like watching this like very you know this is fair and then just like turned to me and was like a little louder like yeah it was right next door he was in there fucking the trick time yeah loud up louder you get me to go louder so I started screaming yes screaming like fuck you
like fuck you favor telling me that you love me fuck you for doing it fuck you for this this and it's just everything that came out from the past four months for you know everything and I end up kicking in these door like fuck you yeah.
And then walk downstairs and at this point a couple of my other friends arrived yeah and they're like hey you know I was like not in a mood to socialize whatsoever and I'm like what the fuck happened so went to the kitchen and signed explaining it to them yeah and then he comes into the kitchen and so he's
facing me and standing behind my friends I don't see him all I just see him.
Yeah and they obviously realize I'm looking at someone else so they turn see it's him they all could they just kind of leave us in the kitchen and I just look at him I'm like what the fuck is wrong with you you said what the fuck is wrong with you and all he has to say to that was he looks at me looks
at my top that I was wearing it was a red top looks back up at me a little little smirk on his face and goes red looks nice on you and walks out that's it.
That's it after just like shattering my well whatever fancy I'd left of the relationship but still like yeah after pretty much disrespecting me and like the biggest way I think anyone can really disrespect yeah like literally you said like please don't do this and he literally said like I didn't even
I didn't even dress the fact that he was on a Tinder date yeah god knows how many I just I wasn't even like don't go on that date I was like I'll deal with that later cuz I was fed up at this point and I was like I just wanna have fun honestly I can't deal with this again I just said don't bring her
in yeah just please if you do it go elsewhere if you need to if you need to do that go to hers yeah honestly go to hers and we'd do the whole spiel again that if you're sleeping with someone and whatever yeah but like that wasn't the end was it no so you know it was a start I did block him and cut him
off for a couple months which was I think you know it's still big to do them yeah so yeah after that I you know I went back to my house for the rest of the night and didn't engage in any of it and I did block him on everything I didn't talk to him for two months um and it was good you know I actually
see well you know I seen fine and I was fine because there was still a glimmer of hope and that's the thing like it wasn't yes I cut him off and yes I blocked him yeah but I knew it was only because I was waiting for him you know I still wanted him to come to my house and so yeah after that I you know
I went back to my house for the rest of the night and didn't engage in any of it and I did block him on everything I didn't talk to him for two months um and it was good you know I have a house I've done that so many times it never happened so obviously of two months of being like I'm fine and cool
and getting on with my life but him never you know never apologizing I ended up one night drunk after a party going back to his and yeah pretty much starting it again yeah yeah and that was like the second chapter this was a that was a second chapter this is this yeah the sequel to it which essentially
was just him saying that he was going to commit to me this time which I think you think he did I don't know like at least I didn't know this time like yeah the time before he told me that he was doing these things and this time I wasn't aware of them and I was with him a lot more so I think so but again who fucking
knows yeah who fucking knows anyway but because he wasn't obviously doing it as frequently and we were together a lot more it was not more covert than not so overt and kind of like oh I'm just having sex all these women it was yeah this was when the really controlling behaviors came this scary behaviors
yeah it wasn't really scary before it was like I'm dealing with a really kind of fucked fuck boy yeah but then it became scary yeah that was when I was like I'm in an abusive relationship it wasn't like I was fucking around with this kind of toxic fuck boy from you know on exchange hahaha first year
of uni things yeah this was like real and that's when I knew I had to actually find yeah get out and what was some of the you don't have to talk about it but it was um I yeah so um put downs like insults little insults I'm very confident in myself as well and he knew that and so he tried to get to me
anyways you know he would he pinched my stomach one day like you go for a run oh he said I was an 8 out of 10 because my butt could be better Oh like shit like that you know which I actually I didn't let ever get to meet those things because I am really confident and I'm attractive so fuck you but yeah
so you know he's still wanted to do it and still horrible um what else um oh behaviors like I wouldn't even know what I do like you don't you don't there's no logic to it but he would go for being kind of fun in all right mood to yeah kind of shutting down going into his room yeah not talking to me
the silent treatment really oh yeah stonewalling yeah yeah we talked about in last week's yeah um he did something really horrible to me um and he told me not to tell my friends yeah about what he did and when I was like you know fuck you my life yeah do whatever you know I told all my friends yeah
because he would because I would and I wasn't you know that afraid of him yeah like I was like you know getting there but I was like fuck you I tell my friends and I had a relationship with my friends and they still I hadn't really lied to them much yeah about me being with him they all knew that I
was still with him but when he found out that I told my friends oh my god like complete just like nothing like silence um well I was like walking in the street with him like begging him to talk to me yeah anything I was like let's just discuss this talk through this like a normal like people will try
to be nothing looked at me dead in the face when I was like fucking begging him in the street and just kept walking nothing like two days like so manipulative so manipulative so just like also the fact that he's like now like what the fuck it's like he can do whatever he wants yeah he can bring back
girls to his house and like he can like do things to you but as soon as you like access I know as soon as you stand in your power yes then it flies off and there was also like so for instance this is when I started kind of realizing the kind of personality had as well he told me that he didn't feel
love or hate really he said he kind of never felt much and kind of operate an autopilot so you thought he literally was like I don't know how to like it's pretty much yeah and I was like sorry what yeah it was like before I was really like educated myself you know yeah I'm just literally the inability
to love literally even anything it's just kind of it's only thing without a conscious essentially yeah so it was shocking tracking it up my head around so what do you mean you're on autopilot is like I'm just throat float through the motions of life like I would never feel love for you pretty much cuz
I can't love you I never will and I never like feel this and I was like that's what yeah you're like I was like what do you mean like you have to write your person yeah you have to love someone and you have to love something so I thought and so anyway he never told me well he actually did say he was falling
in love with me right the start of the relationship but anyway yeah anyway he was like you know I got love for you but I'm not in love with you is what he'd say and so and I even just accepted that my even still just I honestly like accepted that's like great that's it yeah and I was like oh brilliant
and then one day um he oh when I had started in mentally kind of preparing to break it off and I started mentally kind of detaching my point you were like quite afraid yeah yeah yeah at this point this was like a couple months before I did properly ended I was starting to mentally prepare myself you
know you really have to do the mental game preparing the mental game before you actually do it you have to really start detaching yourself emotionally which is what I started doing and god they can fucking sense it really instantly really it's something they can read people and that's why they they
can read people yeah so well just tiny things in my behavior I wasn't as effective at what he said I wasn't really bothered by his presence so much yeah I'm just hanging out and I started being a bit more like my normal self around and not so invested and so worried about what he was doing to me and what he
was doing around me it was very aside detaching and the second I did that I knew he could sense it because he then brought me upstairs and told me he loved me which is what I'd been hoping for for the whole time right yeah so me stupidly not stupidly I shouldn't say I'm stupid but you know silly when I
started touching it was only like a tiny bit that I started so when he said that bounce right back in yeah oh my god he said he loved me oh my god finally it worked I made him love me yeah I made him realize but obviously because I am not stupid I still did turn around to him and say you told me three
days ago that you cannot love and you will never feel love so why you suddenly and this is literally it was three days before that why you suddenly telling me that you love me now yeah and he looked at me and said watch yourself and he said don't push it oh my god oh my god don't push it and then ignored
me for three days literally ignored me for the next three days yeah ignore me nothing I literally thought he was like dead or something so you just cut it off oh my god and I was like freaking out beside myself I was like holy fucking shit like is he okay like you haven't heard from him at all and he's
just probably just like I just I so I was so beside myself that my mum and like my friends were like go to his house yeah go to his cuz I even messaged and I messaged his housemate being like have you seen him like yeah he was like yeah he's around and I was like right that's it yeah went to his house
and like beside myself and he just is like coming back from playing basketball and being like what are you doing and I was like you what the fuck why have you I haven't heard from you like why you suddenly like three days and he was like oh I just needed to have some alone time say yeah like yeah no and obviously
it wasn't because of that now I realize it was because I questioned him and when you question you know now so surpass whatever you want to call them yeah when you question them on their behaviors yeah boom like yeah anyway and then what happened after that and then you end up um I ended up just getting
more and more anxious around him really it was more my body my body's response to him because I just yeah it was just a complete shit show and I ended up just getting like anxious and then I went overseas with my friends for a week kind of before COVID obviously yes obviously reset I guess for my body
you know reset I had honestly not spent much more than a few days away from him in like a three month period yeah so kind of like yeah getting myself away from that space and just hang out with my friends yeah kind of really just like I was like I could breathe and so everything reset for a little bit
and the moment I went back to him and you know back from overseas um that was it my body just freaked out I couldn't be next to him without feeling like I was gonna be panic attack my anxiety was through the roof yeah like I just couldn't sit with him I couldn't be with him and I thought you know initially
I was like whoa like is this me like yeah I was just kind of like I can't I'm so anxious and so I went and saw a psychologist yeah um and I was like you know I'm so anxious around my boyfriend yeah what's happening to me and she was like okay like explain kind of just your relationship a little bit
yeah going on I talked for like a minute or two yeah and she just was like I just could tell she was like oh boy in a professional yeah matter she just said look I have a hypothesis that he's a narcissist you know yeah this is a personality disorder it's not my client but a hypothesis that he is and like
so as you like we both studied psychology and like you don't normally diagnose someone from someone else's assessment you don't it's like pretty much just not it's pretty much yeah you don't do it you're learned in ethics yeah like you can't so it's like you have to be so you have to be fucking certain to
say something like that you have to be pretty fucking like scared for also my well -being yeah to actually say something like no like really clearly because I know yeah and normally psychs I've never had a psych since that's been quite so like direct but she anyway well it's also this situation I think
she's probably like you're actually like in in danger here this person is like jeopardizing your physical and your mental health you are like it's not good yeah exactly so yeah so she said you know I have a hypothesis that he's an narcissist and she very clearly goes you have two options in this situation one
this is your life you stay with him and this is your life that he's not going to change accept it right now no change this is him this is how he is you stay this is your life to you leave that's it there's no in between there's no in between this is your life or you like yeah leave you make a decision and you
like leave and that literally I remember you telling saying that to me and I like the other day and like I was thinking about a situation I'm currently in and I'm like wow like either I keep entertaining this person and like just feel awful about myself all the time and like constantly like in a state
of yeah anxiety survival basically yeah I mean like oh my god like how come I just want to be with you so much and you obviously don't even give a shit about me yeah and I was like either I keep this up or I just like I let it go and I like you said that to me and I don't this relationship obviously
isn't like abusive or it's a little bit a little bit toxic yeah but it's not like to this degree and yeah it was like you said that to me and I was like fuck like wow like it's my decision yeah yeah it's the whole time the controls not with you no controls not with you everything is with them cuz you
think cuz they know like yeah this person isn't like this like yeah but like I think when you're the one who loves that other person more mm -hmm like you're never gonna be like I want to stop singing yeah cuz you're not ending it because the love is gone or you're doing different things like you're
ending it because it's not healthy for you and that I like and yeah for the stage of life that you're in either no I just ever yeah yeah well especially when I have the biggest semester of uni yeah yeah yeah but you did it you I did so like yeah I started breaking away and yeah I pretty much I started
uni that week um and I had a very busy semester coming up and I knew that and I just was very anxious and I just had to like yeah put it in I had to say like I'm ending this and I had to stick to it and I had to just block him and that's really like but then he started yeah showing up at your so it
doesn't it doesn't end yeah like you have to really you have to be so strong to stick with yourself I think and you know I did go back like once that you know that you go back a little bit at the start you ended and then I think we slept together like a couple times but I was really my body and like
the anxiety stop me it really was it wasn't my like mental state hundred percent but my body could not handle yeah his presence like your brain was like danger it was like a fucking alarm going off in my body it honestly was like I couldn't like the anxiety I experienced being in his presence and anything
was to do with him yeah was like so severe that I had to just not see him yeah like it really was that was my only choice yeah so it was good in that sense like that's when the body really knows yeah I think it's when it's really important to listen to your body like the biofeedback yeah 100 % yeah obviously
it's like that a feedback loop yeah everything and yeah but yeah but then yeah obviously because I had obviously tried to end it a lot throughout like this year period he knew that he knew I said this is done and gone back and so he thought this was just not one of those instances like oh yeah okay
I'll give you a bit of space and then come on back and we'll have the same chat and we'll go back straight in but there anything to calm down my anxiety was completely detached and to try and mentally detached from him yeah as well so he tried to do this big grand gesture like a few weeks after I'd
ended it which is typical typical this is the love bombing this is love bombing everyone love bombing probably see it on Instagram a lot yeah it's fucking it's serious yeah it's a serious thing that they do to get you back or in or they do it at the start a lot but also at the end it can happen any
time but um so he gave me kind of so throughout our year kind of together he had sold my 21st birthday presents he you know the things I asked for for Valentine's Day which literally one rose he didn't get for me so he never got me anything basically and so all at once he brought me all the kind of gifts
and things that I'd requested throughout the year at once like in my room it set it up and was like tada basically like look what I've done ready ready to take me back and I just like stood there and I just I couldn't even entertain the idea anymore yeah I was freaking freak out so I was like no and I
was like you know I just said to him sit down and it was very like sternly it kind of said this was like never what I wanted obviously yes I wanted these gifts and that's nice it would've been great it would've been great would've been nice you know to feel a little else oh love oh my god yeah um but you
know actually when you were doing so much for him yeah like but it's not about obviously it's not about the material no item so I was like this is not it yeah this is never this was never what it was about this is never this material stuff which is obviously the only thing I can really relate to these
people as well yeah a lot of it's material stuff because I don't know anything about their emotions yeah but I like sat down I was like all I ever wanted was stability and consistency simple healthy stable consistent relationship that's all I ever wanted so I ever asked of you and I was like his face
was like perplexed like well you said this to me you're like when you call out when you get so when you tell them no when you just tell them no and you're really you have it's like unemotional as well they can't understand like they're really thrown off and it's kind of in a way kind of funny like seeing
him the first time not in control because their control is back with you you see when you take the control back from them and put it within your self and actually make choices and say no and you know they're like what do you mean yeah you're saying no to me like it's yeah it's they just don't understand because it's
like they never can compute what they really did it's yeah but yeah so I just kind of kept saying no and you know he did try a few times he kept turning up my house even tried to break into my house at one point lied to my housemate saying we're all in contact saying I was home when I wasn't home yeah
come in which is the lying and like the yeah just to complete other people around you yeah just like trying to get whatever he could to get at me and the answer was constantly no and that's really what you have to do you just have to break it off yeah and it's really it's easier said than done yeah
like yes I did it and have a bit of a choke hold on you but um yeah the emotions but like the first three months that I would say I did pretty much there the first three months of the entire first semester of uni even though while I was doing uni and surviving as a matter like my emotions were all over
the place god it's like going not that I've ever done hard drugs or been a drug I think but I would imagine it's like going cold turkey yeah it is though it is because it's an addiction in the brain and it's like cutting off yeah a source oh yeah dopamine yeah it is it's cutting off a huge source of don't
say like it's cutting off a source of like norepinephrine and like your stress and those are like quite a addictive to your brain yeah it's like why people take a lot of risks and why do things like that and so when your brain it's like all of your neurotransmitters hormones have been in this state
of heightened arousal and now you'd like you're crashing exactly because when you're in this situation your these hormones and your emotions are so tied to the person and what they do to you like they will you know you'll get euphoric you'll get these amazing euphoric highs when they give you some crumbs
of good behavior of them they are in a good mood you will be euphoric and it's amazing and that's but they do something bad and you'll come crashing down like the biggest low and so it's like when your emotions are so up and down based on this other person and they're being regulated only in this way
when you cut off that source they have nothing to respond to anymore they don't have that stimulus they're trying to still go up they're trying to still go down yeah but when you don't have that response and when you're not fighting against something you can only think really do is just kind of cry
and be a mess like yeah there's nothing to respond to but they're still wanting to that's what I had like yeah with this other person who was like not that I think one of the disclaimers we wanted to give is like I think two people can be toxic for each other but aren't necessarily bad people and it
doesn't mean that like your experience was any less valid because this person you know everyone else thinks they're pretty lovely but like there's a difference I think between a toxic relationship and one that's abusive and the type of character that cloudy is talking about which is like diagnosably
sociopathic but I think toxic relationships can happen between any two people and I still think it's like completely like an experience that is like quite traumatizing like yeah like there was this one person I was like seeing and like it was it was just that anxiety you talk about is just so I can just
remember it yeah I was just constantly anxious I was constantly waiting for him to yeah you appreciate me and like and he would say things to me all the time that would just like shoot me down yeah I don't know like one time he was like oh I would never like properly date you because you're not pure
enough yeah I think I told you about this and I was like and then but then you know the next day he'd be like oh my god like I've had all of these amazing thoughts and I just need to share them with you and I was like what the fuck do you want from me?
Yeah that's what it's like it's the biggest fuck around yeah it's yeah and it's like I don't think that person is a bad person but like the trauma of it like yeah well sometimes this is another thing that I read or got told I don't know what it was but yeah sometimes the person doesn't have to be bad
but their behavior is yeah and that's still what you're responding to and like in that situation that person was young and yeah I'm sure they're different now but like oh some of the other things that happened yeah that's still an excuse yeah and there was a lot of other things where I was like he was like
don't tell anyone about this and then yeah and I was like well now I feel like we're accomplices in this thing but actually I'm the only one who's like burden by it like yeah and it was just so and it like it took me like I'm sure you can speak to this but like months yeah months I don't even think
I got over it until like years ago well I don't think like purse will be like my experience it's not something I think I will ever just know it was so traumatized it's not something like it's always gonna be there now it's always in some ways it's been good in some ways I can detect when I dated since
like yeah very fast when someone's not good I can detect very fast when the behavior is just not okay or not right for me or when someone's just not right for me and but in other ways like even now I'm in like a lovely with someone lovely very healthy relationship but anything that kind of the tiniest
thing that could be to the contrary yeah and there's like a switch there's like I will get into defensive mode very like easily so it's something that you like it's still going this is three years yeah and it's like it like fully changes the structure it does when someone treats you that way it does
and like I the other thing I like I don't know if you if you have the same feeling but I haven't really gone I think into this as much but like the thing I sometimes like sit up late at night thinking about is like I let someone treat me that way that was how I felt like the first year like that entire
year that I broke it off even now I'm like I was I kind of accepted there was a first the part was accepting that's his personality yeah that's how he is I have to go through that once I got through that and is accepted that's the kind of person he is yeah yeah then the guilt goes to you then the kind
of anger switches and it goes what the fuck and I remember this so vividly it's so good I remember this so vividly because there was a part a point where we did talk again for a bit I unblocked him we talked again he invited me out to a concert or whatever initially I agree to it got really really anxious
again and then I like came home like an hour or two before the concert just like started bawling my eyes out like all the lights off in my room the blanket over me lying in my bed just thinking over and over the like how what am I doing yeah like how did I let someone treat me like this why am I still
agreeing to this why did I agree to this and being like oh my god like what's gonna happen if I go like am I really doing this then I was like what am I doing I just sat myself like thank God I was like what the fuck I have a choice here that's the thing yeah like you do yeah I'm like oh I have to I
said yes now it's gonna be so angry if I say no who cares I was like get a grip yeah honestly honestly obviously terrible situation I was like I just had to be like get a fucking grip yeah look at you look at what you look at you you're talking all your eyes out in bed with all your lights off yeah
like get a group I was going my mom's that weekend I was like why would you lie to your mom and blow up your mom for this man person yeah I was like no sorry I was like you know I'm like part of my things we went to the train to my mom's yeah I was like I can't do it not going yeah I know obviously
he called angry and I was like too bad I have too bad yeah I was like too fucking bad but yeah that was like one of the times I remember a lot of the times like in the aftermath and just healing and even now sometimes you know you still can't go back and you're like how the fuck did I let someone treat me
and it's good like yeah from as well for me like yeah like this could happen to anyone and I in realizing that like I am and I've always been very strong very independent yeah confident in myself yeah I've never kind of been anyone who's unsure really themselves or has a lot of insecurities yeah so to
kind of be like what the fuck how how did I go from kind of the girl in high school rejecting every single man and then like not not interested fuck you all yeah to fucking bit like this to literally yeah on my knees begging and crying for some person that's the thing it's like a good to shift because I
find this it's like with my friend and like when I'm out or what I'm like alone I'm like wow I'm genuinely like the best person in the world yeah and I'm like and I like even last night I was like lying in bed and it's like then you I'm just like how did I like I don't know we just keep saying this but I
just think about it a lot yeah but then obviously it's good like laying about yeah you know obviously the science behind it which we haven't even really well I think we're gonna go into that in the second part yes which will probably publish on it like two different ones like yeah yeah so yeah should we
go into the science yeah so yeah pretty much the question that we asked ourselves for a long time might still how yeah did we end up in this in this yeah this year I've been really rethinking my relationship with alcohol and so I decided to commit to dry January to really kickstart 2025 and just test
myself Heineken zero zero is the perfect companion for dry January because you feel like you're still participating when you're out for dinner with friends out for drinks whilst you're still meeting your lifestyle goals I'm a big beer fan so I also love the taste of Heineken zero zero plus being alcohol
free you can enjoy whenever refreshment calls Heineken zero zero is available at your local Heineken retailer or for delivery at Heineken .com you must be 21 plus to purchase enjoy Heineken responsibly and good luck with dry January.
John Stewart is back in the host chair at the Daily Show which means he's also back in our ears on the Daily Show Ears Edition podcast join late night legend John Stewart and the best news team for today's biggest headlines exclusive extended interviews and more now this is a second term we can all get by listen to the Daily Show Ears Edition on the iHeartRadio
app Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.
