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Trusted by 15 million kids and 75 scientific studies, Welcome to Kid News Convos.
I'm Tori. Today we're talking about teens and their use of tech. Everything from newfangled artificial intelligence to what now seems like old -fashioned smartphones.
smartphones. Our guests today are Leslie Tyler, an edtech leader and director of parent education at Pinwheel and mom of two teens, as well as Jennifer Kellman, a licensed therapist, parenting expert on Just Answer, and her 16 -year -old twins, Jordan and Kyle, join us as well.
We start with a new concern about AI.
For the last few years, the main worry was that kids might use it to cheat in school.
But a new study from Common Sense Media is sounding another alarm.
It says a third of teens are using or have used AI companions as pseudo friends.
Leslie, you see all sorts of red flags with these platforms. Tell us why.
I'm personally skeptical about those because one of the things that AI does is it tries to make you happy.
So in order for you to keep using it, it's trying to give you the answer that you want so that you'll keep using it.
Now, on the opportunity side, you know, you could use it to have a difficult conversation with someone ahead of time to role play.
And that's a very constructive use, because you can tell AI, you are my friend, and here's the situation, and here's our whole background, and here's the whole drama.
And I want to do this, and I want to communicate this to you.
And so I say, blah, blah, blah, what is it that you say, what are you feeling?
So it's a, that's a way to role play.
um on the challenges side you can develop kind of pseudo friends that way so it's a lot easier to have a friendship with friendship quote -unquote with AI who's trying to make you happy and doesn't have their own feelings and agenda but it's not very satisfying you know and and it's also important that that kids develop those skills to you know learn how to make friends and how to to resolve conflict.
And again, AI can be a help in those relationships, but should not substitute for those relationships.
So Jennifer, give us your take on these AI companions as a therapist. So there are a lot of kids connecting to AI chatbots, having full relationships.
Those aren't real. I would try to impress upon any kid that's listening out there that real relationships, Face -to -face relationships are what's most important for your growth, for your mental health, for feeling good about yourself.
Use your devices with care, but also use your relationships with more care because that's where connection and growth happen.
I also like to say there is healing in connection.
Without that true connection, we cannot be healed through our devices, whether it's through AI or a game or a social media account.
We are not healed in that way.
So speaking of relationships or not developing relationships with a computer, turning to Jennifer's 16 -year -old twins, Jordan and Kyle, your moms put some pretty strict limits on your use of tech. So tell me, what kind of things do you like to do that are not tech related?
I play pickleball. I like listening to music.
I actually have a record player that I got for my birthday one year, which...
Old -fashioned record player.
I think it's really cool.
So I like listening on there because it's technology, but not a device.
You used to play softball.
I used to play softball.
I play pickleball now.
And I like... talking to people I like hanging out with my family so it's fun awesome that's great and Kyle what do you I think is it baseball basketball you like I play football now but since I was young I had played baseball um but just at home I love talking to my family reading um I love building Legos um I've done that since I was little um but I also love drawing um or just like talk with my my sister, really, we always have fun conversations.
What you couldn't see is they had a twin moment there.
Jordan was reminding him of something to say about his drawing because he's a very good artist. I didn't know what they were communicating about because I'm not in their twin world.
But she just let him know what to remind him what to say.
So Leslie, is there a reason why AI isn't more kid friendly?
Interestingly, as many new technologies, like many new technologies, It is not built with kids in mind.
Kids are kind of an afterthought.
And yet kids are often early adopters.
So one of the challenges is you have a group that's early adopters and it's not really designed for them.
And so parents need to get educated on what AI is about.
And I like to tell people, you know, explore it with your kids.
Because if your kid is an early adopter, you know, say, hey, teach me, how do you work this?
Right. And that'll be, you know, a way to engage.
One really big way to engage with others is to put down the phone.
When we come back, how the answer might lie in worrying less about teenage blowback.
We'll be right back with more Kid News combos after this.
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And we're back. Now, an issue that just won't go away, our smartphone addictions.
So Leslie, how do you recommend families handle this?
Phones, especially for kids, have proven to be pretty problematic.
And so our approach is, as opposed to let's don't have any phones, let's figure out how to help kids learn how to use technology in a healthy way.
And part of it is waiting until they're ready to have a particular technology, whether that is a social media app, or whether that is a smartphone, um, or, you know, whether it's a video game console, but waiting until they are ready to take care of it until they are ready to, uh, understand how they're going to use it.
And then, uh, you know, and then practice with the parent's guidance, um, on, on how to do it.
And, and for every child, is different.
Some people, you know, some children have a lot of self -control, a lot of self -discipline, and they can learn these skills a little bit easier at a younger age.
Other folks who are 20 or 30 still struggle.
So everybody's different.
Yeah. Okay. But Jennifer, I think we can all hear the complaints of kids who will really put up a big stink about having to put away their phones.
So how do we deal with that?
It's a good point though, because that should should lead into for all kids and parents to know that we get very wound up in how are they going to do if we take away the device.
And we, as parents sometimes get afraid and afraid of our kids to set that boundary because of the reactive response that is often there.
But what we do find is that once you do remove it and you have a good boundary around it, that their mood does improve, proof that you might get some initial pushback, blowback, rage, screaming, whatever you can call it.
But over time, as they reconnect more to real relationships, not just through a device, that you see them functioning better and functioning differently as they reconnect and disconnect from their device.
All right. So I'm curious though, about the children of a therapist. How do you guys find disconnecting from your device?
I think sometimes it is tricky, but once I get involved and find more joy in what other other hobby I'm partaking in, it's easy to forget about the device.
I feel like I've gotten used to those boundaries.
But still, I feel like it's kind of hard to follow them because there's so many things on our computers that we can do to entertain ourselves.
So sometimes it's kind of hard to detach ourselves from that.
But once I do, I feel like it's easier for me to do whatever I'm doing separate from the computer.
But in that moment when my mom says, you know, like time up on the computer or time to go upstairs to go to bed or whatever, then it feels a little hard. But I feel like I've gotten used to it over the years.
I, Jennifer, I think you've got an example of when Kyle got in a little bit of trouble.
reflecting back on this silly story i think kyle was supposed to be studying for a couple of exams the next day and i happened to look over at that moment and i saw what i call game face and his lips were tight he's pressing on the mouse and i'm like this is not history or math studying so i said what are you doing he's like nothing i'm studying i'm like there's no way i i saw that face i used to have that face when i played pac -man back in 1980 something so of course he maintains his position and i happened to go out at that moment and walk the dog and just to be silly i peer in through the glass
and i see game face and i see his computer and i gently knock slowly on the window and he turns around your listeners can't see but he was it was pale white.
And I go, how's the basketball game?
Nailed him. Now it's funny, we laugh about it.
And maybe kids are groaning saying, oh, you're too tough.
You're too this. Maybe parents are saying this happens in my house all the time.
So Leslie, you first talked about gradually introducing technology to kids as a way to limit their screen time.
But honestly, it's hard for for adults to set a good example, you know, especially if you're using your phone or your laptop for your job.
And even if you're working, right?
So adults, I'm working, I'm reading email, I'm working.
So that, that especially during the summertime, that can also have, you have opportunity to limit the time.
So if it's a time that, that should be family time, you know, maybe maybe it's after dinner or it's getting ready.
Um, you can say, oh, I have to answer this one email, but then I'm putting it down.
So, you know, it's like, is it, is the thing that you're working on?
Does it have to be worked on right now?
Since COVID, there's a lot of leakage between work and personal and, and even work bleeds over into personal time.
And what we're trying to teach kids is something that we also struggle with.
Yeah. I think just adding on that being a role model I've seen like parents in the world who are always on their phones so I feel if the kids see that they think that would be okay and if they've grown up being on devices all the time I also think it's just the parents responsibility to show the kids that even them being online isn't okay either and Jordan I'm curious if you have friends you've noticed who maybe don't have boundaries or effective boundary set have you noticed kind of any negative consequences for them any harmful effects of being on screen too much?
Well, I know, most of my friends who don't have any like boundaries or don't have any like screen time for their devices, they usually spend the whole night on them.
And they like that is like, that harms their schoolwork, how they perform during school days, if they complete their homework, or if they're so busy scrolling on their phone that they forgot about it.
And I think the biggest detriment of having no boundaries on your phone or devices is how much time you start spending on it and how much less and less time that you spend on other things.
So before we go, Jennifer and Leslie, I believe you both advocate for a specific phone as a way to set boundaries and enforce some limitations for kids.
So on the pinwheel phone, you can, the parents can set a school mode, a bedtime mode, an after school mode to help, to help guide the activity that you're, you should be doing at a particular time, that the child should be doing at a particular time.
My kids both had a phone by Pinwheel, which was a great phone because it allowed me to decide what apps they can use, set time limits on it.
And then as they grew and matured and showed responsibility, we could add more apps or add Google Chrome.
So the phone essentially grows with you.
And if you want more information on Pinwheel phones, go to info .pinwheel .com.
This has been a fascinating conversation and I've learned a lot.
So thank you to all of you, Leslie, Jennifer, Jordan and Kyle, for your time and your advice.
And thank you for listening to Kid News Convos.
If you'd like to leave a comment or share some feedback, please send us an email at WeHearYou at KidNews .org.
And our regular Kid News episodes will return on Monday, August 11th.
Have a great day.
