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Hello everybody, and welcome back to the psychology of your 20s.
The podcast where we talk through some of the big life changes and transitions of our
20s and what they mean for our psychology.
Hello everybody, welcome back to the show, welcome back to the podcast, new listeners,
old listeners, wherever you are in the world.
You know the deal, it is so great to have you here back for another episode.
I hope that everybody has been doing well, taking care of themselves, finding something to
stay optimistic about, whatever it is that gets you up in the morning, that gets you going,
I hope you are prioritizing it.
Today I have a little bit of a different episode for you, for long time or g-listeners of the
show.
You will know that every kind of six months I like just to do a little chatty, unplanned,
Q&A kind of episode, a sit down chat, I kind of get to know me, a life update, and that
is what we are going to do today.
I think it has been about six months since we last did one of these episodes, so there
is a lot to catch up on, and a lot of epiphany is that I have kind of realised about myself
recently, one of which has to do with the fact that if you haven't noticed, I am a little
bit ill.
So these last two weeks I have had a really serious case of tonsilitis, which I don't know
if you have ever had tonsilitis, I am hoping that you haven't, but for those of you who
have experienced this, it is like a whole body experience.
I think I get it, semi-regulially, like probably once a year, and every time I forget what it
feels like to go through.
It is a hellish.
My whole body was aching, I lost my voice, which as somebody who does podcasting full-time
is literally the worst thing ever, and it is one of those hard circumstances with this
job, right?
If you lose your voice, you can't do your job.
You can't work because you are main service, you are main product, your vocal cords are
non-operational.
So it was kind of this weird feeling of like, oh my god, I want to be doing things.
I want to be working on the podcast.
I want to be putting out new episodes when I genuinely cannot speak.
The frustrating thing was that I think I have spoken about this before.
Maybe I am just going to go ahead and spoil it.
Why not?
I finished my book.
My book is done.
It still has a while before it comes out and goes through the editing process and all
of that.
But yeah, it was like a marathon when I got back from traveling at the start of the year.
I had probably only done around like 15% and I was like, okay, time to like shift into
gear and write this frickin manuscript.
So that has been like really high in my priority list.
I finished it two weeks ago.
It was like the probably one of the most like hardest things that I've ever done like in
my professional and career life in terms of like sustained mental effort.
But here's the catch.
I finished the book.
I took a day off and then I remember you know that feeling where you can feel yourself
getting sick.
Like the back of your throat is burning and like stinging and you can't swallow and you're
just hoping that maybe you just have something like stuck in your throat or you've like
eaten something spicy.
No, it was the sickness.
It was the illness coming on and within like two days I was like immobilized in bed.
It was great though because it gave me a chance to watch rewatch, not watch for the first
time, obviously not, but rewatch like the entire Twilight series.
I think if you haven't watched those recently as an adult, you need to be doing that because
I brought like a whole new, critical feminist lens to that situation and to those movies
that I've never had before.
So I watched Twilight.
I made a lot of soup in my new little Dutch oven and I also had an epiphany about myself
because whilst I literally felt like I was on my deathbed, the one thing I couldn't
stop thinking about was the fact that I wasn't being productive.
But here I was with all of this empty time, this empty space that I should be feeling,
sitting at home and I wasn't doing anything.
I would end like every single evening feeling terrible.
Let me say that like I was not well, but the like resounding thought in my brain was like
guilt.
It was a sense of guilt that I hadn't gotten more done and that I had you know optimistically
working up with this like huge to-do list of things that would seem like we're impossible
for me to do in my state.
Like clean my entire house, write scripts for podcast episode, like finalize big project,
like jump on you know overseas court, like that was not possible.
I couldn't speak, I couldn't like get up without feeling dizzy.
So of course I wasn't moving through my to-do list as fast as I should have been and I had
an excuse right there like I had a really valid reason for why I wasn't able to do that.
And yet I wasn't taking it.
That excuse was not available to me.
I just felt so much shame and guilt and frustration that I just finished this huge thing.
I'd finished this book that was meant to clear up so much more time for me and this sickness
that I was experiencing, this tonsilitis, that was just like a small roadblock that I
had to push through.
And if I wasn't able to push through it like I must be lazy, I must be you know, undisciplined,
I must be procrastinating.
When in fact it is like a very valid reason to not be getting as much done.
And through like conversations I was having with my friends and with my boyfriend I was like,
oh this is not just a problem when I'm ill.
This is a problem at like all stages of my life that I continually tie my worth and my
sense of self to my output and how much I am able to do in each day and how hard I'm
able to push myself.
And I do think that I have become one of those people who like sees busyness as a status
symbol.
And there was a really fascinating article in the Atlantic about this recently that was
essentially like you know the way that we have glorified hustle culture and the way that
we have glorified and idolized success in our society and in our culture means that it
is seen as impressive when we don't have boundaries, when we don't take necessary time
off when we are genuinely falling apart.
When we don't prioritize the things that are important to us like our wellness, like
our relationships, like our free time, all of those things are seen as impressive these
days.
And I think that I've really been bitten by that bug.
And on a deeper level it's not just apparent when I'm unwell or when I'm sick, it's also
very apparent to me now in how I operate on a daily.
So for example I was talking to my partner about this and he made this really fascinating
point.
He was like even when you are having quote unquote down time, you feel the need to be socially
productive within that.
So like if I have a weekend off, it's like seeing that weekend not as space to relax
and not as space to be free and spontaneous.
It's like okay we have these like quadrants, we have these time slots that I need to fill.
I need to be seeing people on Saturday night.
I need to be seeing people for lunch on Sunday.
I need to be seeing people on Monday, on Monday morning for like a brunch like I need
to be catching up on my social life.
I need to be socially productive even when I'm not being I don't know career productive or
like work, work life productive.
And I was kind of shocked when he said that because I was like wow you are absolutely right.
I always just thought that I just had a higher threshold for I don't know connection and
for staying people I'm such an extrovert that it didn't feel I don't know it didn't feel
odd, it didn't feel problematic to need to fill my weekends in such a way or to fill my
off time in such a way because I do gain energy from seeing other people, from seeing my
friends, from like hearing about their lives.
But when he pointed that out, I was like no I approach socializing like it is a to do
list.
And it's like kind of sickening like it was and it's not to say like oh my gosh my friends
are like a task that I need to check off or I have like an ongoing list of like I need
to see this person by this date almost like a deadline.
Now it's just more that when I see blank space in the calendar I want it to be utilized.
And if I've devoted that space to you know not doing work the other way I can utilize
it is by socializing.
So yeah it became kind of apparent to me that I had a problem I think that when you are
genuinely so unwell that like I said I couldn't get out of bed I couldn't speak I couldn't
like go outside and yet the first thing that I'm thinking of is how productive I'm being
and what I'm contributing and what I'm getting done probably not a sign of a healthy relationship
with work or with you know your sense of self-esteem or confidence when it comes to not
putting things out and not being busy.
And then secondly that need for social productivity was another element and facet of this that
I don't think I'd ever been aware of before and I kind of was like doing a little bit of
investigating because I think that the big misconception I had was that I'm just an
overachiever that is who I have always been I have been somebody who is perfectionist
somebody who is an overachiever somebody who likes working hard I don't need to work
hard I like it but that was really like opening a bit of a box for me because I was like
why do I like it why who likes working more than they like having downtime who likes feeling
guilty for taking a break it's the people who tie their identity and receive validation
from feeling successful and feeling like they're doing things and often that really ties
back to how you were like who you were taught to be as a child and when I say who you were
taught to be I mean who you were conditioned to be through praise and through feedback
and through comments from your teachers and your parents and your mentors and your friends
that you meet this archetype you are the overachiever you are good at school you are someone
who is successful you are a hard worker you are gifted academically when you hear that
repeated as I think is you know quite a nice thing obviously we want to like positively
reinforce children and shower them with praise and make them feel good about themselves
but when everything you've heard about yourself that is good everything you hear about yourself
that makes you valuable and makes people like you is tied back to how hard you can work
and how much you can excel and what you can give it's really hard to have any nuance
in terms of your personality and in terms of your identity who am I beyond output if you've
never been told that you are a kind person that you are a generous person that you are
a creative person that you're somebody who just brings peace to their life that prioritizes
their happiness like those are things that we are not necessarily praiseful or complimented
on as children were complimented on how we meaningfully apply ourselves to the pursuit
of success and things like grades and things like academics and so I think the older you get
you have an opportunity to kind of release yourself from that identity if you are somebody
who has always been seen as an overachiever or like a gifted child or somebody who is
an extremely hard worker you do have an opportunity to kind of throw away that identity when
you're moving through that like gaining independence phase and trying to assert yourself as you know
independent from other people's judgments I don't think I ever did that though I don't
think that part of my identity was ever I never questioned it I never saw it as unhealthy
I never saw the bad side of it and so it's created this version of me who doesn't know
when to fucking stop like sorry to swear but it's like quite frustrating to only realize
that at like 24 the other component of it is that I think that I am somebody who likes
to fix things I don't like seeing that there is a problem or something that needs to be
done and not in some way in some capacity working towards a solution for that problem I know
for a fact that I am somebody who doesn't enjoy the mess or the clutter of an unorganized
life and doesn't enjoy the sense that there are things that are nagging me in my brain
that are kind of like screaming get me done get me done so there is actually a term for
this I don't know if I would call it a condition but an experience in psychology and it's called
the zirconic effect and it essentially refers to how for some of us the like sense of an
unfinished task is incredibly difficult to overlook it is incredibly you know hard to
move forward or to relax when you know that there is something that you haven't completed
that you forgot about for example if you know you have an essay but you've put time aside
for it next weekend you've got a whole 12 hour period to get it done you know that you'll
get it done you still can't help yourself or stop yourself from focusing on it in the
weeks prior in the days beforehand when you don't have the capacity to do it you still
know that it's going to be finished you're just not working on it right now but it lingers
and you can't forget about it for me that's my like to do list as soon as I've put something
on my to do list I've realized this about myself as soon as I've like sent myself like
okay I want to do this I need to get this done I want to have like five or six podcast
episodes like lined up I want to be fully planned for this trip I want to have this like
whole script fact checked and done by tonight there is no way that I can stop myself before
that gets done it's honestly a compulsion it is like an obsession and again it's this
dogonic effect where there is something in our brain that keeps coming back to unfinished
business I think all of these factors all of these experiences ultimately lead back to
this toxic productivity that I'm speaking about this unyielding sense that there is always
stuff that needs to be done there is always more that can be done and not doing it is kind
of a blemish on my character and is something that I should feel ashamed for because somewhere
out there somebody is not making the same compromises as me somebody is not taking the
rest day somebody is not being quote unquote lazy like I am and it's really really unhealthy
and problematic so in like the couple of well in like the week that I've realized this
is something that I kind of need to address and I'm sure it's going to take me a while
to really get my thumb over it and to get control of it but some of the things I started
pondering was whether I would be as unforgiving when it came to other people in my life
who were experiencing the same thing so let me articulate that a little bit better
obviously me being sick gave me a reason to not be able to do all these things that I wanted
to do and that is actually super valid that is an excellent reason to not be as productive
or active in your life but for me personally I am my harshest critic as I'm sure you are
your harshest critic as well so I thought about the compassion and the care that I would
show a friend who was going for this if you know like my best friend Aaron was like to
me oh my gosh and it's interesting because she actually called me yesterday and she has
COVID and so I actually got to have this conversation with somebody else the conversation
that I should have been having with myself and she said to me she was like I'm super sick
and I just can't get anything done I need to clean the house like we have visitors coming
I like need to call and seek to work but I feel so lazy and what I said to her was that
as ridiculous you have no reason to feel lazy your body is screaming at you to take a
break it is telling you it's time to rest it you know is unwell and you need to really
care for it and mend it otherwise this is just going to come back even stronger otherwise
it's going to take more time for you to heal this was all these things that I was saying
to her I was like you need to be kinder to yourself you need to be nicer to yourself
this is me giving you permission to rest and to relax and to just get better and I believe
that fully I was fully I believe that fully that's the only thing I can say about that
I was like yes Aaron my beautiful darling gorgeous caring friend deserves to take a break
how come I don't how come I cannot apply that same compassion and that same narrative
to myself I think it goes beyond just out in a critic and how loud they are and more
sort of what this concept of like the spotlight effect and the spotlight effect essentially
says that our flaws our perceived failures our perceived laziness everything that we see
is wrong about ourselves that is so much more visible to us whereas when we look at our
friends we don't see those things about themselves that they don't like we don't see the reasons
that they believe they deserve to be criticized we don't see the things that we see about
ourselves because they're hidden in their own internal worlds so when we have the the
option or the choice to display empathy to us we're seeing the scales is a lot more
tip to all the ways that we're failing and all the reasons we don't deserve a break whereas
our friends our family the people we love they do because they're not as lazy as us they're
not as unproductive they're not as bad they are more worth the rest and the relaxation and
the empathy and the kindness so it's a bit of a disease honestly I think that it's
something that was really important for me to honestly see in real time was the difference
and the distinction between the conversations I was having with myself about taking care
of my body versus the conversations I was having with somebody that I truly love and
who I really care about so that is one factor of it I think the other thing that I need
to better recognize and get better at doing is also just like finishing my day when a
task is done I think I have this like serious problem where yes I may have done everything
that I actually wanted to do my to do list but I'm like well maybe the reason that I did
everything was because I actually didn't push myself enough maybe I could have had the
capacity to do more so it's like a lose lose situation either I don't do everything that
I need to do or I do everything that I need to do and that's just an opportunity for
me to just pile on more or to believe that I've underestimated my ability during that
day or my all my time so yeah it's a bit of a maze I think that the things that I really
need to do moving forward is like okay let's focus on just doing a couple of things each
day and doing them really well because I think that that also keeps my attention on what
I really need to do rather than feeling caught up in like the guilt spiral that just creates
panic and worry that I'm not going to get things done and so I kind of half ask them so
that's something I really need to prioritize and just like finishing when the task is done
like if I did what I needed to do why do I need to do next weeks to do list why do I need
to start on tomorrow's to do list like it's just I think at that point you're asking for
an endless list of things that need to be completed that never ends and you're asking
for a situation in which you just genuinely never know when to stop like what's the end
for that because if it's not getting sick what like when do you stop if you don't stop
when you're sick if you don't stop on vacation if you don't stop when the task is done
it's kind of like you're in this cycle until death and that is not necessarily the way
that I'm planning on living my life so that's been my first revelation as a recently that
I am needing to address my toxic productivity not that I apply it to others just that I
apply it to myself and find a healthier relationship and you know balance with my work and
my need to actually be a human and sustain the other parts of me it's been a big wake-up
call as a recent but there are some other really positive things going on in my life that
I want to share with you and we're going to talk about them and kind of lie in the
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so i want to give you guys like a little personal update around like my living situation
and how things have changed there a little love life update and then a general update around
the next six months so the biggest thing is that i've finished my book which is like insane if you
are considering writing a book nonfiction fiction poetry whatever it is i could not
could not express this more you really should do it but the other part of that is that it's
going to be really really hot because like the average manuscript is like 80,000 words which is
ridiculous like absolutely insane when you think about it that is almost the size of like a
phd thesis it's like eight times the size of a monstrous thesis so pretty intense that's been
really like on my mind in my life taking up a lot of my time recently the other thing is that
i now live alone which is incredible and possibly one of the best decisions i have ever made i
lived with roommates for the last 70 years like since i was 17 when i moved out of home i've
lived with other people and having other people around and as somebody who i think has
clad in odd strange relationship with like loneliness it always felt like until i moved in with
a partner i needed to live with other people because i couldn't like imagine the silence of being
alone turns out it is not as hard as i thought it would be it's actually super peaceful and super
fulfilling i got a record player which i think really helped because i love being out of like
playing music when no one's home i think it fills the silence but the other component of it is
that you just get to do whatever the hell you want with your own space you know you get to have
your friends over and bring like the mattress out into the living room you get to leave the kitchen
as messy or as clean as you want it you get to take the bins out when you would like if something
isn't done it's on you there's not this like bubbling resentment towards somebody else so i
freaking love it i absolutely love it i can't imagine i really i'm thinking back to how i lived
with other people for so long i used to live with like really good friends of mine and i love them
so much that was amazing i think the change happens when you start to live with strangers there
and it's kind of like well you know you just don't have that same connection that makes it feel
worthwhile and i had the opportunity to move out by myself to like a little cottage house i was
about to say where i live probably not smart but yeah to like this little cottage house in like
Sydney and i just got like the most amazing deal i really cannot express it at the time i was like
actually i'm gonna clarify i was like yeah i've got the most amazing deal like this is so affordable
how is this house so cheap i'll tell you why the house is so cheap number one it doesn't have
air conditioning or like any form of heating and the windows are super super thin the bedroom is
like right onto the street which is like kind of a vibe because you can hear every single person's
conversations but it also means that the house is freezing cold and the bathroom the windows and
the bathroom are like those pained kind of windows that like or they'll be like six and they'll
like open up do you know what i'm talking about it's like oh my gosh i really wish i could show
you a photo but like yeah it's kind of like those pained windows that have like slats and they
basically they shouldn't be in a bathroom especially the ones that are this old because they
don't close all the way and some of them are like cracked so it means that anytime you go in there
during winter which it is now winter in Australia it's like freezing cold probably not if you're
probably not freezing if you live in the US or like Canada or some place where it snow is like
i am still living in Sydney the coldest it gets is like 15 degrees Celsius so i can't complain too
much but yeah that's the other reason why this house is cheap and the final reason is that you
can hear everything that the neighbors are doing and they can hear everything that you're doing
which i don't mind but my next door neighbor is cranky and i was having like a game snack
a board game night with like four of my close friends only two of us were drinking out of the five
of us and it wasn't like we were like listen we're not doing like fireball shots we're not playing
like loud music on the TV we are sitting on the kitchen table playing herd mentality which is an
amazing board game if you haven't heard of it and she like comes over and is like basically
threatens to like call the police on us and is like you are being in nuisance bear mind it is
9.45 on a Saturday night with five women in their 20s eating pasta playing a board game this is not
a rager and so yeah now we're in this like kind of tug of war where she oh my god also anytime I
leave my front door open because I like to have like a breeze coming through she'll I'll like see
her walk past and like stare in with her little dogs and it is super strange i'm like yep
I still live here don't worry i'm not going anywhere um so that's one thing final thing it's
under a flight path probably should have said that first as somebody who does like audio work for
their like profession um yeah it's required a few adaptations to my life because I really cannot
express how loud this is um it is like a there it is like full on like Boeing 777s or whatever the
huge cargo planes like flying so close to my house that I can see the screws on the bottom of
the plane it is something you get used to though so listen I thought I was getting a good deal it
still is a good deal and I'm still so happy but this is your reminder that if something seems a
little bit too good to be true you should definitely check in on that because for what I'm playing
I definitely think that yeah I'm getting what I'm I'm getting what I'm paying in terms of the
faultiness of this place and the downsides moving on to a little love update honestly all positive
on this front I feel like you guys have really been following along with this relationship
obviously when I started this poll class I was like devastated and heartbroken from my last relationship
ending and then you know throughout the course of doing the show I had my heartbroken again
in a situation chip and then a year ago I came on and was like oh my god surprise surprise I
have met somebody and what the heck it's going really well and this is really healthy and he's
a really nice person and I don't feel insecure at all what is happening what is going on
and yeah we celebrated our one year last week which is like absolutely wild because I still remember
sitting down for that life update episode and being like I've met this really nice guy and I
really hope that it works but yeah he's we're doing amazing I don't like to speak about him too
much because he has like a like real big boy job if that's even like the way I'm saying it like
he's a lawyer and has like real clients and you know it just feels a lot more consequential and like
a lot more serious and I don't want to like bring him on as much and like talk about his life
as much in case like interrupts with what he's doing but he doesn't really seem to mind so
shout out to the love of my life he is so sweet this is your reminder to fricking weight
for the right person and you will know it when you see it and when you feel it like it's I don't know
I hate all those cliches I'm so sorry to be that person that I hated when I was single who was like
when you know you'll know but like fuck it's really true it's really true and as for like a more
general life update as I'm recording this I'm literally leaving for London in tomorrow tomorrow
I'm leaving for London at like 12 p.m. tomorrow my stomach kind of dropped when I said that I
I'm still like definitely afraid of planes so we'll see how that one works out I'll be fine
it is a long flight from Australia though so if you're like listening from the UK please hit
me up if you've ever done the flight to Australia because you will know how like heinous it is
it's like 24 hours on a plane and the jet lag is just like I'm not looking forward to it but I
am looking forward to traveling around London I'm going to Bristol as well for an exciting launch
with somebody who lives in Bristol that's all I'm going to say on that probably should have
announced that before I announced my book that doesn't come out for a year but nonetheless
I'm going to Bristol I'm going to Paris for three days one of my best friends from uni
is living there as an actor in same the places that people go so I'm just super excited I'm super
excited to I think that was also like some of the pressure behind why I was like I need to get better
you know this sickness cannot ruin this for me like I've spent the last months and months like
working so hard I want to break when I'm overseas I think it's looking up it looks like I'm going
to have a really good time so if you're in the UK please like also message me with suggestions
I feel like every time I go to London I do like the same 10 things and I need to diversify the
experience because when people come and visit me in Newtown and in Sydney I'm always like no
no no no we're not going there I'm going to show you the hidden spots and they have a great time
so I need like a tour guide for me in like in Hackney in Camden in London so please send me your
suggestions and thank you for listening this far to this rambly episode this life update around
my recent I guess like emotional mental health epiphanies to do with productivity but also just
it's nice that you care about what's going on in my life and not just the psychology and the
science of everybody else's lives so thank you so much for listening for making it this far
make sure that you are following along on Instagram at that psychology podcast if you
have anything you want to share if you have an episode suggestion you know I love to hear them
so many episodes coming up are suggestions from the listeners so we see every single one of them
and it all goes into this huge master list that I love to sift like sift through and sift through
you sift through and have a look at your amazing ideas because you are so creative and have such
good perspectives on your 20s and your lives make sure you're following along as well with the podcast
hit follow on apple podcast on Spotify leave a five star review I read them all if you feel cold to
do so I would love to see some positive feedback or feedback of any kind and thank you so much for
listening and for following along we will be back on Friday with another episode until then stay
safe be kind to yourself and we will talk soon it's time to celebrate black history month at the
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